Ice climber's shield drop?

[Smog]

Hi I'm new here. I've been on smashboards a lot but I have never posted until now.
What is up with the ice climbers shield drop? A fourth of the time nana drops, a fourth of the time popo drops, and half they time they both drop.
I wish I knew how it worked in detail because I found a desync for a VERY quick nanapult.
I shield drop and when I get lucky only popo falls through. As soon as he does I use an ice-block and he pops right back onto the platform, leaving nana open for a nanapult (or anything else).
This process seems to be quicker than the spot dodge desync, but it is so inconsistent and I do not know why. I think part of the reason is Fly's short hop and c-stick smash thing applies with spot dodging. Anything information or reasearch would be very appreciated.
Also if this is already known, I'm sorry. I couldn't find anything about it in the threads.
I'm going to keep practicing it to try to figure out more about it

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I'd test this if my TAS inputs weren't inexplicably not working right now. If I fix that, I'll get on it.

 

[Smasher89]

While you look into that, check why nana fulljumps when wavedashing on the slopes on YS unless you know the answer already :D

 

[Smog]

I think this is just the same thing as the smash/short hop desync. When I'm on the platform doing a shield drop, I push the stick down, I don't move the shield left or right first. Since I do that method and it already requires a somewhat accurate input of degrees there is a better chance of me getting the exact amount of degrees for the desync to happen.

I think it still should be tested though because when I tried this on the ground, I made nana spot dodge and popo roll with the same input. So I feel the amount of X degrees on the stick also has an effect on this instead of just the Y degrees.
It could be in my head, but when I shield drop and tilt the stick down and right instead of straight down, it feels there is a better chance of the desync happening where only popo falls through

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Okay, so if we think of the vertical values the joystick can occupy as ranging from 0 to 256, with 0 being the bottom and 256 being the top, then vertical values over 75 don't cause any shield-drops, 75 causes Popo alone to shield drop, 73-74 cause both ICs to shield drop, 72 causes Popo to spot-dodge and Nana to shield-drop, and smaller values cause both to spot-dodge.

 

[Smog]

Ah, so it is just like the smash/jump desync, but not even a reasonable thing to try to master.

 

[Nana Saves Popo]

That's a pretty tight window there o.O Thanks for the intel Fly! Anyone have other useful tools out of shield dropping with IC's? I can do it with about 50% consistency but before I work that up I'd like to know if its useful with IC

 

[KingKirb]

I was going to make a thread like this, but I'll just add to this one:

Do Ice Climbers really need a secondary? Their worst matchups are Peach, Puff, and Sheik right? How bad are these matchups anyway?


Edit: Sorry, wrong thread. I don't know how that happened.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I was going to make a thread like this, but I'll just add to this one:

Do Ice Climbers really need a secondary? Their worst matchups are Peach, Puff, and Sheik right? How bad are these matchups anyway?

You can't win a counterpick war.
That said, it never hurts to have a secondary, but you don't need one.

The matchups ICs struggle with are these:
Peach (but it really starts to even out once you get better), Marth (for sure their worst mu, but dont tell people), Samus (I dont think its that bad once you learn to handle missiles)

Some more outdated c/ps to them are ganon, luigi, falcon, link(?)
But I think ICs bop them all these days.

Fox is also pretty brutal, for both characters really, but I think fox has an edge.

 

[KingKirb]

You can't win a counterpick war.
That said, it never hurts to have a secondary, but you don't need one.

The matchups ICs struggle with are these:
Peach (but it really starts to even out once you get better), Marth (for sure their worst mu, but dont tell people), Samus (I dont think its that bad once you learn to handle missiles)

Some more outdated c/ps to them are ganon, luigi, falcon, link(?)
But I think ICs bop them all these days.

Fox is also pretty brutal, for both characters really, but I think fox has an edge.

Thanks

 

[xKobayashi]

You can't win a counterpick war.
That said, it never hurts to have a secondary, but you don't need one.

The matchups ICs struggle with are these:
Peach (but it really starts to even out once you get better), Marth (for sure their worst mu, but dont tell people), Samus (I dont think its that bad once you learn to handle missiles)

Some more outdated c/ps to them are ganon, luigi, falcon, link(?)
But I think ICs bop them all these days.

Fox is also pretty brutal, for both characters really, but I think fox has an edge.

i really really don't think luigi, gannon, and link beat the ic's, as you can out camp the two former, and link just doesn't have the tools to deal, plus because of d-throw chain grab on link (similar to sheik) you can have random grabs leads to wobbles even when nana is not synched

 

[DerfMidWest]

i really really don't think luigi, gannon, and link beat the ic's, as you can out camp the two former, and link just doesn't have the tools to deal, plus because of d-throw chain grab on link (similar to sheik) you can have random grabs leads to wobbles even when nana is not synched

I agree 100%, link definitely has a few tricks that are irritating though. Its a very gimmick heavy mu.

 

[cemo]

Link has bombs and some good aerials to keep you away. I think the punish game is heavily in our favour but it can be hard to get in on him with ICs linear movement.

All the Luigi's I've met seem to think it's in his favour, or at least that he does well.(not many, but Vist and I think Abate? I could be wrong) ICs definitely win on FD, but again it's harder to zone with blizzards when he can use platforms. I have a hard time judging this matchup it's really weird.

Ganon punishes ICs harder than most characters, and his jab and limbs can be a bit hard to get around. if you have space or time to setup some blizzards and stuff you can control the neutral.


I am working on a Marth sort of for Peach on FD, if one day I feel it's hopeless. The best player in my region is a Peach and I think it's doable, but I don't want to be obstinate and play a losing matchup for years. I like Marth's general gameplan and I think it's well suited to me as a player.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I think ICs should beat Luigi solidly enough if they don't make mistakes, but keeping Nana alive on respawn is tough if he's willing to grab, which is the big reason Eddy has been hard for me the past year. I think dodging that is still quite doable, though.

It's also probably worth noting that I haven't found any Luigis aside from Eddy difficult, and I've played most of the good ones.

I find ICs vs Link very easy. Shoot ice blocks at him and light-shield a lot and it's tough for him to do anything.

 

[Kyu Puff]

ICs bop Link. YL is much harder, I think because he can escape quickly enough to make use of his projectiles, and because he can reliably beat ICs shield and crouch cancel.

 

[Smasher89]

Anyone knows a reliable way to deal with luigis approaching down b onstage? if theres a good way ICs will have a big advantage i can explain when i´ve tried the up b sollusion in tournament against luigi.
EDIT: camp isnt really the best way to beat ganon, that gives ganon time to set up his spacing which is with poiwer the only decent thing ganons got. Forcing him to go into the air then intercept andreducing his stagecontrol to 0 is way more efficient.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Down-B is unsafe on shield and CC at low percentages. You can WD -> grab -> kill him for doing it.

 

[Vanitas]

Down-B from Luigi requires a large commitment imo. If you can whiff it, a blizzard can completely stop it in it's track. Otherwise, Fly is right in that you can pretty much WD out of shield and punish it with a grab.
I'm almost in favour of ICs>Link. If anything, it'd be like 55>45 for ICs.

 

[Smasher89]

Thats the thing, i was blizzarding with nana, and shielding with popo, and the only seemingly reliable thing the luigiplayer had to beat it at all was the down b

 

[xKobayashi]

I feel that IC's can beat peach, they have very solid punishes (Chain grabs at low percents --> wobble such as: d-throw d air + reverse into). You can also WD OoS and roll (unpredictably) out of a lot of her pressure providing you are controlling the stage decently, or waveland onto platforms allow you to run away for a really long time. And you can U-air/B-air when she is floating.

But importantly one trick I have been doing recently is at 0 ~7% if peach is floating or coming down from a float (say to f-air most of the time, in which you can sneak in the nair before the f-air hit box comes out) you can shffl n-air into grab, and while nana is l-canceling buffer her to ftilt into a guarenteed 0% wobble. It is very very gimmicky but it works a lot, and I have used it on some decent peaches to beat them. It works a lot of people's pocket peaches when they try to CP ice climbers. Obviously dont fish/rely on it, but it is really good.

here is a link of me setting it up: http://www.twitch.tv/sdmeleetv/c/6213344 at about 6:11:16

 

[Kyu Puff]

I feel that IC's can beat peach, they have very solid punishes (Chain grabs at low percents --> wobble such as: d-throw d air + reverse into). You can also WD OoS and roll (unpredictably) out of a lot of her pressure providing you are controlling the stage decently, or waveland onto platforms allow you to run away for a really long time. And you can U-air/B-air when she is floating.

But importantly one trick I have been doing recently is at 0 ~7% if peach is floating or coming down from a float (say to f-air most of the time, in which you can sneak in the nair before the f-air hit box comes out) you can shffl n-air into grab, and while nana is l-canceling buffer her to ftilt into a guarenteed 0% wobble. It is very very gimmicky but it works a lot, and I have used it on some decent peaches to beat them. It works a lot of people's pocket peaches when they try to CP ice climbers. Obviously dont fish/rely on it, but it is really good.

here is a link of me setting it up: http://www.twitch.tv/sdmeleetv/c/6213344 at about 6:11:16

Looked pretty good. Wobbles likes to d-air Peach out of her float (especially by baiting her into the air using platforms); it can lead to jab grab, or scare her into rolling, either of which can lead into a grab. N-air might be a better option when you're below/beside her at low percents, although if she does late f-airs it might be hard to sneak the n-air in before she lands.

 

[xKobayashi]

true, late fairs blow up the nair-to grab strategy, but if peach starts using her arials too late, you can begin to intercept her earlier as she is coming down (with VERY careful timing), but if you do this you can't link it to the grab.