"I won't hold back on anyone!"- The Palutena Match-Up Discussion Thread- vs. ZSS and Palutena ditto

[Glaciacott]

The Palutena Match-Up Discussion Thread
​

The time has finally come. The game is in our hands, and it's time to start talking about the characters that are causing us pain and the ones that are super fun to go against.​

Because it's Palutena, there are two things to keep in mind while discussing match-ups, and these are the questions we should be centering on when discussing a specific character
1) How does the match-up work for default Palutena? Ups? Downs? Options?
2) What customizable move-set combination works best against this character? How does it alter the match-up?

The plan right now is to devote a week at a time to discuss two characters. Since the roster is gigantic, if there's a good enough pace of information we can consider rating characters at a faster rate, but since it's early in the meta-game we should take our time rating them.

Also, while I do want to quantify match-ups and have proper ratios and the like, I think for now it's wise to keep it to mentioning whether you we start the match up at the advantage, at the disadvantage, or neutral. I'll keep a list of these as we go on and also gather data for each character for posterity. With time we can have proper charts and tiers.

CURRENTLY DISCUSSING
Zero Suit Samus
Palutena

PREVIOUSLY RATED MATCH-UPS (click on the characters to access the discussion on them)
Little Mac
Greninja​

 

[Admiral Pit]

Although we don't know about all her combos and certain moves (still missing D-tilt, all throws except B-throw unless that was U-throw, all aerials except N-air, etc.), let's see what I can imagine. Of course, don't take what I say as finalized as we need more data.

______
-Pit: 50/50
The little angel that's on her side, now as an opponent? Pit's improvements seem to be potentially made him more of a threat to Palutena than his Brawl version could have ever been. His improved range and power from F-tilt, F-air, and F-smash, along with his new Side-B can be troublesome for the Goddess of Light, or so I think.

Potentially good Custom Setups?
???

As you know, Reflect Barrier can knock opponents back upon contact. The Super Armor frames from Pit's Upperdash Arm can potentially go through the barrier and hit her directly, so be cautious when using it. Autoreticle can be the long-ranged attack comparable to Pit's arrows, but remember both characters have projectiles and reflectors respectively, so being careful is needed.

Another one of Pit's improvements to be noted is his Up-B, and him being able to use it again even after he gets hit. More data needed.


______
-Mac: 60/40 Palutena's favor?
Boxing against a Goddess... Right then. Many of us can already speculate that Little Mac will have major issues with good campers and/or zoners. For this case, Palutena could be quite the threat with the right customs.

Potentially good Custom setups:

Autoreticle
Reflect Barrier
Counter
Jump Glide/Rocket Jump???

Autoreticle is possibly a good choice for it's her only projectile known so far. Reflect Barrier could also be of good use if Mac doesn't use one of his moves with Super Armor frames, and actually those 2 moves can be good at gimping his already terrible recovery.
There's also 2 choices that can be made for Down-B specials: Counter, and Celestial Fireworks. Because Mac is meant to be an aggressive close-ranged ground character, as such, Palutena's Counter can use Mac's power against him if he's too aggressive. Celestial Fireworks has invincibility frames, so if used at the right time, you can avoid one of his close-ranged attacks and do damage to him at the same time.
So what about recovery? You can attack while using Jump Glide, and move back and forth at will, and even be able to trick Mac into doing a wrong move if you're recovering. The question marks for Rocket Jump is for the reason that I am just making the assumption that it can be a great choice if that move has super armor frames before its startup, which can make it a good defensive and OoS move if it does have said super armor frames. Because of this possibility, if Rocket Jump indeed does have Super Armor frames, Palutena could probably take one of Mac's hits and deliver a strong explosive blast in return.

That's just a small summary til we have all the data and discoveries. To make it short, Palutena's long-ranged and defensive capabilities are likely powerful tools to defeat Mac decently well if my theory is correct.



Sadly that's all my mind can think of.

 

[Glaciacott]

The Pit situation actually poses a good question, regarding Reflect and whether it would be able to push back Pit when he's using Upperdash Arm.
It's weird for me to imagine Pit just going through the barrier for some reason ...
Also, will Jolt Haymaker go through Reflect? It does so through other projectiles, but this isn't a conventional projectile, more of a wall really. Will it be like Isaac's AT attack but with reflective properties and less distance? mm

My take on best/worst match-ups:

Potential awesome match-ups:
- Mega Man
- Robin

Characters that depend on projectile game for approach and control won't work very well against a character with a reflect barrier and can warp behind them. And has a projectile that locks on you. I would imagine them having a tough time approaching, particularly mega man.

For them the movesets are obvious: Reflect no matter what. Warp being the fastest recovery and movement option to approach quickly after punishing (depends on lag of the move though, hopefully it's not like Melee Mewtwo ...) or simply the one most likely to effectively avoid attempts to gimp with projectiles (jump glide seems like the best recovery, but floating seems like an invitation for these characters to damage, juggle, spike, etc.) Explosive flame and Auto reticle are both good spacing options to further complicate their options. And for down b I'd probably keep counter to deal with fast attacks like Mega Man's dash or down tilt, or a well spaced levin sword aerial.

Potentially horrendous match up:
- Greninja

I think Greninja is going to be our bane. it's fast enough to punish mistakes in defense; super high jump with fast, strong decent in Bounce, which means depending on the stage it can overcome even the ridiculousness of the Up Smash and punish it; Shadow Sneak means it can materialize behind you and nullify the usefulness of any zoning you attempt.

Add to that the fact a lot of people will be playing him after what we've seen of it ... yea, Greninja will be the one I practice against the most, definitely.
And for him I'd add the moves that might have the least input lag: Rocket Jump, Angelic Missile/Super Speed, Light weight, and perhaps heavenly light to discourage it from jumping all over.

Aside from these there's a lot of characters I'm not as sure about based on the fact we have to see how punishable Palutena's moves are.
I could see fast characters like Sheik and ZSS being tough to handle due to the pressure they impose, and it seems most specials might be too laggy to effectively push them back. However, if Palutena's grabs and standard attacks have decent priority and little input lag, we might be safe after all.
And heavy characters I think would be fairly easy to deal with ... but ... then we have stuff like Bowser being faster and DK with a roll move, as well as a lot of super armor options for them ... so I'm not sure how those matches would go.
I could also see aerial heavy characters like Kirby or Villager not having a good time against Palutena, but those characters have other options so I don't think they're entirely hopeless in the same way I see Mega Man suffering.

 

[Anthinus]

1) Mac is incredible fast and his dogdes are quick too. He got superarmor here and there, that could help approaches (SideB could help him as well). However, Mac could be easy to gimp with Auto-Reticle. Couter works, but Celestial Fireworks' invulnerability frames could be handy too (Plus sets Mac in the air).
-Rocket Jump/Warp - Punish approaches/Escape
-Auto-Reticle - Gimping
-Reflect Barrier - zoning
-Counter/Celestial Fireworks - Punish approaches
EDIT: Whoops! Pretty much I repeat what Admiral Pit just said about Mac lol. Sorry xD

2) Greninja could sneaky sneaky shadow thru Reflect. Palutena could shutdown his air approaches with USmash and Celestial Fireworks (maybe Rocket Jump depeneding on hitboxes and superamor) so Greninja probably will try more his ground game.
-Rocket Jump/Warp - Punish approaches/Escape
-Explosive Flame - Agressive way to keep him away, zoning
-Reflect Barrier - Water Shuriken, zoning
-Counter/Celestial Fireworks - Punish approaches

3) Mario could keep pressure by throwing his fireballs over Reflect. Pika could do this too. Some characters with Zair maybe could "outzone" her. Even if Reflect is up they could air dogde thru and Zair OR just Zair thru Reflect (if it is possible).

4) Superspeed seems like an excelent tool to follow up attacks or close gaps. But giving up Reflect Barrier is kinda bad sadly . Maybe one could prefer SS instead of RB against some characters without projectiles, but RB's zoning could be too good. I hope it doesn't have terrible ending lag.

That's what I've thought until now. Hope it helps to theorize!

 

[Starbound]

Seeing as the eshop demo comes out in less than an hour, I see nothing wrong with making this thread now.

While initial Super Theory Bros. is acceptable for early metagame discussion, please try to base your discussions on facts about Palutena's metagame. Video evidence is preferred if you are suggesting something extraordinary (like a 70:30 hard counter matchup).

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Everyone is invited to contribute to this discussion, whether you're a Palutena main or a main of another character.

In addition, until if/when they have been banned from tournament play, discussion about how custom moves effect matchups is allowed and encouraged.

 

[Lenny Sciaroni]

Maybe I'm just bad, but I struggle against Lucina.

 

[Lemonitis]

^ What he said, but replacing Lucina with Jigglypuff.

 

[Ragna22]

Palutena can demolish Megaman if you know how to time the reflector.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Lucina is evil, and G&W. It's Lucina's annoying range that really does it, and Warp's kinda limited. G&W just seems to be one to avoid the D-throw combos easier than many others, and is obnoxious for his small size. We could find data on that later though.
Which matchups should we talk about more first? The common characters, or maybe Palutena or one of the angels? Or some of our personal troubles, or we prefer an order?

 

[Wintropy]

Any character with good close-range and chasing skills is a tricky opponent for me, personally speaking. The slow, precise nature of her attacks leaves her open for punishment for quicker and more agile fighters - I would like some advice on how to tackle them, so any aid is welcomed!

 

[chipndip]

I'd assume she's got a bad match against most characters on this roster...mainly because not a single soul uses her online...

EVER.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Greninja is REALLY tough on Palutena. Completely out speeds and out-ranges all of her moves. Punishes her Smashes easily. When you're landing to recover, he can slip a water shuriken underneath reflect and hit you, can roll past your DSmash and punish you instead. There was almost nothing I could do in that round.

 

[Glaciacott]

it's not like this thread existed already, but w.e.

 

[Hong]

@ Starbound
I have merged your MU thread into this one. This came first, and @ Glaciacott intends to maintain it moving forward.

 

[Glaciacott]

First post updated to reflect the game is out and the move from speculation to proper discussion.

Make sure to vote on which character you want to discuss next! (Will pick the top two choices)
http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5431f97ee4b09149347e249a

 

[Admiral Pit]

Though it's not ideal, I kinda voted for Palutena dittos to get a small start and as a form of practice on how we shall do things, before we start getting into the more threatening matchups. We'll need categories on what to look for, especially a part that shows how things would be with default only, and another with customs legal. Since Palutena automatically has all her customs, the ditto should be the one to go first IMO. Here are the current categories that I got.

-Regularly (name pending)
How the matchup is with default specials only. It should include what to look out for, what stages to CP/ban, the advantages and disadvantages of Palutena and the other in the MU, what we can do to decrease our weakness and improve our advantages (example: Keep Mac in the air and off stage as much as you can to take advantage of how bad he is in the air), and other general things.

-Customs Allowed (name pending)
Similar to above, except now take custom specials into account. Rate each of the 8 other custom specials for the matchup and their effectiveness, as well as preferred/recommended customs against the character, as well as being cautious of the opponent's own customs and how they work.

-Overall matchup rating (pending)
After discussing, we rate the the matchup using the "#:# who's favor here" routine (like 50:50 even) with the short version of the reasons. There can be a 2nd rating with customs allowed since I know it'll be different.

I can try to provide a sample format if you want and we can work around getting it together for when we begin.

 

[TsuKiyoMe]

Greninja is REALLY tough on Palutena. Completely out speeds and out-ranges all of her moves. Punishes her Smashes easily. When you're landing to recover, he can slip a water shuriken underneath reflect and hit you, can roll past your DSmash and punish you instead. There was almost nothing I could do in that round.

Yup. This matchup is a complete nightmare.

I'd strongly vote on this one first, followed in suit by Sheik and Little Mac. These are common tournament characters. If you cannot beat them or figure them out soon, I don't think Palutena has much of a shot in competitive play.

 

[Glaciacott]

Though it's not ideal, I kinda voted for Palutena dittos to get a small start and as a form of practice on how we shall do things, before we start getting into the more threatening matchups. We'll need categories on what to look for, especially a part that shows how things would be with default only, and another with customs legal. Since Palutena automatically has all her customs, the ditto should be the one to go first IMO. Here are the current categories that I got.

-Regularly (name pending)
How the matchup is with default specials only. It should include what to look out for, what stages to CP/ban, the advantages and disadvantages of Palutena and the other in the MU, what we can do to decrease our weakness and improve our advantages (example: Keep Mac in the air and off stage as much as you can to take advantage of how bad he is in the air), and other general things.

-Customs Allowed (name pending)
Similar to above, except now take custom specials into account. Rate each of the 8 other custom specials for the matchup and their effectiveness, as well as preferred/recommended customs against the character, as well as being cautious of the opponent's own customs and how they work.

-Overall matchup rating (pending)
After discussing, we rate the the matchup using the "#:# who's favor here" routine (like 50:50 even) with the short version of the reasons. There can be a 2nd rating with customs allowed since I know it'll be different.

I can try to provide a sample format if you want and we can work around getting it together for when we begin.

Lol, dude, those are like the two exact things I mentioned in the first post xD
Personally, I think the palutena ditto is actually one of the more complicated ones to start with due to the custom moveset thing. It means that we have to account for the custom movesets of BOTH palutenas and that's actually a lot to handle. Whereas something like Little Mac is a problem we're all aware of, it's a character that's popular in for glory and most of us have experienced, and he's a one-trick pony that allows for a relatively easier discussion that allows us to see how things go and get organized.

What I did want to ask is, since you happen to have the first post after mine, is if later on we could use that to dump archived character info when the first one gets to max capacity.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Lol, dude, those are like the two exact things I mentioned in the first post xD
Personally, I think the palutena ditto is actually one of the more complicated ones to start with due to the custom moveset thing. It means that we have to account for the custom movesets of BOTH palutenas and that's actually a lot to handle. Whereas something like Little Mac is a problem we're all aware of, it's a character that's popular in for glory and most of us have experienced, and he's a one-trick pony that allows for a relatively easier discussion that allows us to see how things go and get organized.

What I did want to ask is, since you happen to have the first post after mine, is if later on we could use that to dump archived character info when the first one gets to max capacity.

Well, I guess when you say it that way, and I do despise Mac already, so... Fine. But we get to do the Palutena ditto later.

Well... Save a copy of the whole post so that we may use it for later. It could be of use for the future, after all, especially when we get to Pit and Palutena ditto data.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

I'd vote for Little Mac, since I've been hitting the lab this past week on the match-up.

 

[Wintropy]

I've voted for Little Mac. He's a serious threat to defensive / keepaway fighters, in my experience, and it'd be good to be able to keep those fist of fury at bay.

 

[andimidna]

This seems like the right place to put this: http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/

eventhubs has this sort of thing and Palutena started out at the top but seems to have fallen... a lot.
I was just wondering if you guys agreed with any/some of the data so far. And what you guys might be able to add to the votes.

If this isn't the right place for this post, then just delete it, I'll post this in the general discussion thread anyways.

 

[Glaciacott]

Feels weird to have a tier list democratically chosen. Wonder if it would even out eventually to semi-accurate proportions.

Ok, so votes seem to be dwindling, in which case I'll close voting at the end of tonight (10/07) and we can start with whichever characters are at the top then. So far it seems like Little Mac has his spot secured, so if you're voting consider voting for a second character to discuss. Currently Greninja and ZSS are tied in votes, if that remains I'll just flip a coin or go online and we rate whichever I encounter first xD

 

[Smog Frog]

why are people voting for little mac when we know its close to unwinnable for palutena, seems kinda weird to me

but anyways, its a rushdown character, which already puts it in little macs favor. he has super armor, and we can't space him out effectively with the autoreticle, and we don't have a move that we can use up close to get him out of our face

i don't main palutena so take my words with a grain of salt


also i would like some discussion on the lucario matchup, main reason i came here

 

[Lemonitis]

why are people voting for little mac when we know its close to unwinnable for palutena, seems kinda weird to me

but anyways, its a rushdown character, which already puts it in little macs favor. he has super armor, and we can't space him out effectively with the autoreticle, and we don't have a move that we can use up close to get him out of our face

i don't main palutena so take my words with a grain of salt

I don't believe that for a second. It's easy to play on Mac's great weakness with her. Bait the guy with neutral B than go for the grab. Keep on trying till you can kill him.

 

[chipndip]

I don't know a single good Palutena user, nor have I seen a single one online.

 

[chipndip]

I don't believe that for a second. It's easy to play on Mac's great weakness with her. Bait the guy with neutral B than go for the grab. Keep on trying till you can kill him.

Good Macs can keep it moving and apply pressure in smarter ways than "get grabbed and get rocked". >_>

Also, her neutral b doesn't do all that much from what I've seen. I don't see what Palutena could do against Mac. Mac is hella fast, and Palutena is hella not, so...

 

[Lemonitis]

I've done a ditto glory match before. It was stupid fun. Felt like a DBZ match with all the sidestep and UpB teleports and neutral B beam shooting. God was actually easy to hit, with how big she is and all. So getting through her easy to predict defense, she's great to practice what ever combo you may be able to pull off.

 

[Lemonitis]

Good Macs can keep it moving and apply pressure in smarter ways than "get grabbed and get rocked". >_>

Also, her neutral b doesn't do all that much from what I've seen. I don't see what Palutena could do against Mac. Mac is hella fast, and Palutena is hella not, so...

Every good player facing another would focus on the quickest victory without getting themselves killed. When it comes to Mac, getting him grabbed and rocking him after that is priority. Palutena's neutral B maybe weak, but it have decent range and speed, making it a good bait weapon to bring Mac to her. There's no reason for Palutena to be chasing down Little Mac. Every fight between those two should always be near the edge. If that doesn't give God the advantage, than it sure do put her on even grounds against Mac's speed.

Whoops. Should of added this post with my previous one. My bad.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

Jigglypuff.
Discuss.

 

[Glaciacott]

Hehe, I see some of you guys got started.

Well, the fury of punches has taken hold of For Glory, and it's now here for us to talk about. The ultimate match-up between brains and brawn, offense and defense, air and ground ... it's Little Mac, and he's done with major league and is looking for Goddess-rank opponents!
Go ahead and rate and discuss the match-up against Little Mac with Default Palutena, as well as the ideal moveset for those using custom moves

.. But what's that in the shadows? Nope, Mac doesn't come alone, and his friend isn't Mewtwo either. Greninja manages to sneak into our first discussion, and this teleporting, leaping, running frog ninja poses enough of an interesting thread to merit our attention.
Go ahead and rate and discuss the match-up against Greninja with Default Palutena, as well as the ideal moveset for those using custom moves

tl; dr
NOW RATING: Little Mac and Greninja (I'll end this round when I see people are mostly ready to move on.)

Coming up next: Zero Suit Samus and Palutena Ditto

 

[Fluttershy]

for the best position for Palutena is to be close to the edge so she can throw him off the stage and force him to have to recover. try to keep him in the air where he is very vulnerable. Dash and Bair can block his attacks especially Neutral B but because of super armor he will continue the attack and potentially hit her depending on the spacing and how much he charged it. watch out for that KO move which kills Palutena starting at 21 Percentage with No vectoring (done in Practice mode with Level 9 cpu with the stop action (I'm not sure if they use Vectoring..)) and at FD form of Warioware
as for moves..
Neutral B
Auto is probably your best bet for neutral since you'll be allowing Mac to land with Heavenly Light and Explosive flame may allow him to get higher elevation when he could have fallen for a ko
Forward B
Reflect is kinda more useless with no projectile so either Angelic Missile or Super Speed
Down B
Counter is imo your best option. for Celestial Fireworks his speed and super armor on him makes it a lot harder but doable.. light weight isn't as needed with his horrible air game and recovery so it could be replaced
Up B
Jump glide helps but it's more of a preference over warp or vise versa

haven't played against many Greninjas

 

[Nabbitnator]

I played against a decent little mac earlier today.

Neutral B- It is decent in this match up but you want to use it every now and then like full screen and when he is off stage. I recommend doing this off stage to mess up his timing to get back on stage. Other then that if little mac has common sense he'll dodge it and then attack you or just dash in knowing the start up of your projectile. Please please please use this when he has k.o. punch so he can flinch.

Reflect- It's only use is to push his forward b away in air only when he is off the stage. other wise don't use it at all.

Counter- It's really good for his forward b but other then that he has armor on his moves. Even if you guess correctly your counter will miss and he'll punish you.

Down throw-Allows you to get up air in if they don't vector properly but you can do down throw into forward air for a true combo.

Up throw- Gives you time to think over your mistakes for a few seconds and if he misses his counter or fails to move just up air him again and again for the damage or kill him with it.

Back throw- I think this throw is the best on for the match up because it tosses him so far away so even if he is at 30 percent you can start bullying him in the air.

Teleport- I haven't used the customs yet but this move is pretty good in this match up. It's great for staying at the ledge or keeping him guessing on how you'll return. You can also use it to force him to guess where you'll end up on the field. I suggest using this to lure him to the edges as long as you're not at 40-60%.

Down smash- this move is good for catching dodges on reaction but I would recommend forward tilt.

forward tilt- Mainly use this to punish his rolls when he dashes in. It will catch up during his recovery. It pushes little mac away and what is best is that it gives you space.

what you should mainly do with mac is just lead him to the edge of the stage, shield and throw his whiffed attacks off the stage. Then bully him with auto reticle, forward air, back air, and using reflect from time to time to shorten the distance on his recovery. I was experimenting this match on for glory and I figured that my main goal is to block punish and get him off stage immediately.

As for greninja im not sure about that match one day I was doing well against him and then the second time I played against the player they gave palutena issues because she can't reflect fast enough.

In my opinion Palutena can shut down megaman completely. She can use his own bomb to get her own combos in, then every other projectile is rendered useless because of reflect. Megaman has to come to her and he doesn't do well fighting up close. If he leaves a gap she can use a jab to punish it. If he dashes in its a free throw into fair or she can go for up air if the player wishes to, then his forward smash is completely useless in this match because it essentially becomes her own kill move.

 

[TheJerm]

I don't know a single good Palutena user, nor have I seen a single one online.

I'd like to think of myself of a good palutena.(Could be the best one atm) I havent seen one as good as mine and I generally win more than I lose with her. Plus I use her vs good players so she's been forced to learn alot.

Ive been playing the mac palutena match up since the game came out with a close friend of mine who's definitely the best mac ive faced. Its very possible and somewhat easy to beat him. Its also easy to get ***** if you arent careful. Just bait for grabs and use her quick attacks. Up air works like a charm in this match up

Ive been searching around for palutenas hardest match up, mac could be it. And its not that hard at all. She goes even with every character for me so far. And i'd say mac is something like 55/45 lol

 

[Starbound]

You have to keep Mac away from your Palutena. If Mac gets near you, you have next to nothing to return the match to neutral.

Autoreticle has the potential to screw up Mac's game plan. If he takes the hit with his super armor, he's still taking on the 9 damage. If he doesn't want to take the autoreticle damage, he's got to jump, roll, shield or counter and this is what you want. Also be sure to keep Warp on hand to return to a neutral position so you can pelt him with Autoreticle again. Jab is also really useful here as I think it outranges Mac's jab.

In my opinion, this is like 40:60 in Mac's favor.

Haven't played enough Greninja's yet to judge the matchup with experience but Super Theory Bros. suggests to me that it and Sheik are probably the hardest matchups for Palutena.

 

[Asdioh]

"Palutena is an awful character" -Everybody
But then I played jerm's palutena.
I saved a couple replays I can upload them tomorrow if you want.

 

[chipndip]

Palutena is awful. The game is just pretty well balanced.

I dabbled in using her today, and although I see OBVIOUS glaring flaws, she's not as bad as Ganon, and she's got some strong advantages very few people of her weight class can emulate. She's got a good deal of KO moves that do the trick at efficient percentages (b-air, u-air, all smashes) if not better, and legit combos out of her d-throw. For close range issues, just auto-combos with light attacks can quickly get you breathing room.

However, she's still slow on ALL her tilts and smash attacks, save her u-smash, but her u-smash has virtually no horizontal reach, all of this being pretty hard to manage in a game where speed is normally king. Also, her special moves are pretty bad. If her neutral b was a more potent projectile, I'd be singing a different tune.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

I'd like to think of myself of a good palutena.(Could be the best one atm) I havent seen one as good as mine and I generally win more than I lose with her. Plus I use her vs good players so she's been forced to learn alot.

Ive been playing the mac palutena match up since the game came out with a close friend of mine who's definitely the best mac ive faced. Its very possible and somewhat easy to beat him. Its also easy to get ***** if you arent careful. Just bait for grabs and use her quick attacks. Up air works like a charm in this match up

Ive been searching around for palutenas hardest match up, mac could be it. And its not that hard at all. She goes even with every character for me so far. And i'd say mac is something like 55/45 lol

Yo Jerm, you play Palutena too? Lol I thought I was going to be the only one in our region.

 

[Hydde]

IM planning to use her a lot... but this is discouraging indeed. Ill give her a try amyways,

But sucks that she is so slow on attacks...and im pretty sure that skilled people with fast characters will wrck skilled palutena players

 

[chipndip]

IM planning to use her a lot... but this is discouraging indeed. Ill give her a try amyways,

But sucks that she is so slow on attacks...and im pretty sure that skilled people with fast characters will wrck skilled palutena players

It's hard, but...eh...doable?

Just not her light attack is her BEST friend, even against average speed opponents. Light attacks and throws for the early %'s, and her main KO moves will be u-air, u-smash, and d-smash from what I've been doing.