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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

n0ne

n0ne

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Jan 25, 2009
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509
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Toronto, Ontario
-ACE- said:
http://youtu.be/Q84aNrytS3g

Kage, great set vs Weon-x. Overall great play.

At 1:39, it's times like that when I feel the spacing on the uair is too demanding not to trade. Uair for sweetspots, bair **** like that.

Also @ n0ne n0ne is easily one of my favorite falcons fuuuuhhhk
Click to expand...
Thanks. U got a hybrid falcon-dorf for pleasure

Kage's good at landing those hits u really dont think that are gonna connect even with spacing properly. Im good at comebacks :)

We both got clutch factor tho

So much powershielding going on by both of us in our sets, crazy
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Well to be fair, in dittos you give up more opportunities than the average high school drop out, lmao. But I still like your Ganon a lot also.
 
B

Bwmat

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Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
665
Any of you guys going to pacific northwest majors?

I'm thinking of going and it would be awesome to meet some of you.
 
Divinokage

Divinokage

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n0ne said:
Thanks. U got a hybrid falcon-dorf for pleasure

Kage's good at landing those hits u really dont think that are gonna connect even with spacing properly. Im good at comebacks :)

We both got clutch factor tho

So much powershielding going on by both of us in our sets, crazy
Click to expand...
Ya my magic works only in tourney. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzD1vQMmc8k&feature=youtu.be&a Anyhow I made a match analysis for me vs n0ne. I know some of you have Falcon problems, this should help a lot.
 
RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
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Sup guys. I figured out how to get to Debug/Develop mode on 20XX and I've been messing around with applications of frame data.

I've found more information on Ganon's invincibility at the ledge, and how he can manipulate his collision hitbox to land on stage earlier to retain more invincibility. A lot of this was said by @Kadano before, but I got to see it for myself today.

First of all, when I grab the ledge and I did a ledge hop the way I would usually do it (hitting away for one frame and then toward the stage and jumping on the next frame) I wouldn't land on stage with no impact land until frame 18 of my double jump.
But if I hit down off the ledge for two frames, and then hold forward and jump on the next frame, I land on stage with no-impact land earlier by 2 frames, so on frame 16 instead of frame 18.

I realized that by doing this, you can invincible ledge-hop jab with a 7-frame error window, invincible ledge-hop grab with a 3-frame error window, and an invincible ledge-hop ftilt with a 1-frame error window. By error window I mean that if you are late on doing the action by that many frames, you will still be invincible once the hitbox or grab box comes out.

An even stranger thing that I wanted to see for myself was what Kadano was talking about for the huge amount of extra invincibility frames that Ganon gets when he up-b's and grabs the ledge. It turns out, you have to sweetspot the reverse up-b grabbing the ledge, and for some reason, if you do the same dropping down for two frames and then jumping and holding forward on the next, then you will manipulate your collision box to where you no impact land on stage on frame 8 of your double jump. That's half of the usual way I would ledge hop. Because you land on stage so early and are able to immediately act, you can ****ing down-b and side-b while being fully invincible even when you have hitboxes out with room for error.

So it's a good idea to keep in mind when you have to reverse up-b sweetspot the ledge that if you do the right timing of the ledgehop, you'll land on stage much sooner and retain more invincibility frames.
 
L

Linguini

Smash Master
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LOL @ -ACE- -ACE- uair was fine in that situation kage just scrubbed so hard with that spacing

good matches tho, and nice vid mark. heavily digging that double reverse jab to bair lmao. why is it that renth is the only ganon that I see doing **** i've never seen before? put your thinking caps on brehs
 
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-ACE-

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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I figured you'd chime in, lol. The uair has always been your cure-all. Bair is just easier. ****ing up the bair is like a fast food joint ****ing up french fries.
 
B

Bwmat

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
665
Kage, I was watching your match analysis yesterday, and you said something like 'damn I have to learn to shield drop'.

For whatever reason, that prompted me to go grind out shield dropping for like two hours and I can now do it semi-consistently! (but only while facing left for some reason, have like 1/3 the success rate while facing right)

Gonna see if it comes in useful tomorrow in tournament. Hopefully I've leveled up since last time.

So yeah, thanks for that unintentional motivation.

Didn't even finish the video, still paused in youtube lol.

edit: By 'facing left' I meant left-wards shield di, not which direction I'm facing.
 
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Coastward

Coastward

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got 3rd at my weekly, some people from out of town came to **** **** up lol.

coulda got 2nd but i ****ing CHOKEDDDD.

i feel like i've peaked into another level after mcsmashter. the game feels more slower now.
 
Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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Skytch said:
Also, here's my analysis footage: http://www.twitch.tv/skytch/b/630521031

I analyzed @ Coastward Coastward vs Reggie, @ n0ne n0ne vs Idea, @Bizzarro Flame vs Toph, @ Divinokage Divinokage vs Weon-X, and @ Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir vs Kason Birdman.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that man. Obviously not a whole lot to say cuz of how short it was, but it's helpful nonetheless. General theme I've been seeing from people that I've asked for help from is 1. Better movement and 2. Don't throw out attacks for no reason
 
B

Bwmat

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ugh, I played terrible today. Got spacied so hard I kinda want to just switch to fox/falcon (though I won't don't worry).
 
n0ne

n0ne

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So today i discovered 100% for sure dorf>falcon vs puff. Got those decisive sets vs idea today.

Also dorf>falcon vs climbers (hammertime)

Bair towers for dayzzzzzztrololoooool
 
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Coastward

Coastward

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n0ne said:
So today i discovered 100% for sure dorf>falcon vs puff. Got those decisive sets vs idea today.

Also dorf>falcon vs climbers (hammertime)

Bair towers for dayzzzzzztrololoooool
Click to expand...
ive been telling you to go ganon against idea for the longest time lolllll

glad you have realized it now though
 
B

Bwmat

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yeah ganon is GREAT against icies. makes my friend so salty.

edit: welp I dunno how I got 'icies' from all that. Anyway, he's pretty good against puff as well, although the whole game can devolve to a bair spacing battle, which is kind of lame.

edit2: welp, second sentence. Don't mind me....
 
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B

Bwmat

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Also, something I just realized while looking back on how I played today, I reverted to my 'usual' style of play, not really doing anything that I had been practicing, or not being able to do it consistently/well. Just means I'm not playing enough real matches...

Also, after several hours of playing I always start to fall apart, flubbing **** that I usually always get and SDing, just playing 'stupid'. I just get tired and everything goes to hell.
 
iRanch

iRanch

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Got a few matches on stream at the Monthly today

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/630966933?t=1h29m40s vs Hungrybox (Puff)
This went pretty bad. I've done better against him. Oh well.

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/630966933?t=1h54m25s vs Fox/Yoshi
Pretty much everything after the first stock was alright.

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/631068361?t=4m15s vs Rula (Falco)
This went bad bad bad. I don't know what the **** I was thinking throughout the entire set. holy ****.

edit:
plus bonus gfycat
https://gfycat.com/FixedRadiantGalah
 
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RedmanSSBM

RedmanSSBM

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Just got back from Olympus. Had a great time honestly. Sorry @ Kryout Kryout I did not see you there, or maybe I played you in a friendly and I didn't know it was you? There was a setup I got on that had two other Ganons playing before me, so maybe one of them was you. Or maybe you were the purple Ganon that was practicing wavelanding at the end of the tournament and also on stream vs a puff? Those are my only memories of other Ganons there (besides playing Chaddd who hella stomped me in the Ganon ditto)
 
n0ne

n0ne

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Coastward said:
ive been telling you to go ganon against idea for the longest time lolllll

glad you have realized it now though
Click to expand...
Yea. Won todays tourney, One More Round, dual maining falcon and dorf
beat bernal, idea, dont remember who else.

Lost to Weon-x in winners finals, then worked my way up, beating hammertime in losers finals, then back vs weon-x, resetting, and taking the tourney.

VODs should be up tomorrow maybe idk
 
Эикельманн [РУС]

Эикельманн [РУС]

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iRanch said:
Got a few matches on stream at the Monthly today

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/630966933?t=1h29m40s vs Hungrybox (Puff)
This went pretty bad. I've done better against him. Oh well.

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/630966933?t=1h54m25s vs Fox/Yoshi
Pretty much everything after the first stock was alright.

http://www.twitch.tv/gamingknights1/b/631068361?t=4m15s vs Rula (Falco)
This went bad bad bad. I don't know what the **** I was thinking throughout the entire set. holy ****.

edit:
plus bonus gfycat
https://gfycat.com/FixedRadiantGalah
Click to expand...
Did you ever brainstorm our streaming talk? we should review your set with rula and stream some this week.

I got 5th at the big Orlando monthly that ranch mentioned. My sets with the florida falcon triad are always hit for hit now but I can never close out that final game winning hit. So confusing. Really got some soul searching to do.
 
Kryout

Kryout

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First tournament done. Lost both of my pools matches vs. a Falcon and a Peach 2-0, with both of them 2-3 stocking me each time. I learned a lot though, so that's always good. I'm definitely going to experiment with other characters and see if Ganon really does fit my play style the best. Also really gotta practice up on wavedashing and landing. Not being able to do so seems to be a pretty big disadvantage. On a more personal note, really gotta step out of my comfort zone a little more. Gotta start speaking up. Finally, I learned that Melee is a hard game. My respect for the people like Bizz and Kage went through the roof.

Skytch said:
There was a setup I got on that had two other Ganons playing before me, so maybe one of them was you.
Click to expand...
Probably was. If both of them were really bad then yeah one of them was me. :D
If you played green Marth and Ganon than I saw you play a lot. Never spoke up though, but I'm regretting it now, I really should have.
 
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