-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
"Our"? Did you just now figure out that kage is good at smash? That required some detective work no doubt.
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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Renth
Smash Hero
Don't even start, we all treat him like trash.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Mark you better watch it before I perma-BAN you just like I did mango.
Coastward
Smash Lord
ok im still a go for big house
just gotta make some extra cash $$$$$$
just gotta make some extra cash $$$$$$
Divinokage
Smash Legend
LOL, I think you just like shutting down people with a lot of confidence perhaps? Normally when I think I can basically beat almost everybody, it has nothing to do with what I'm really trying to do online. Sometimes, I do try to start **** so I can get some free MMs. It's all part of the strat to make people think a certain way so i can get the mental advantage from the start. My true intention is always trying to get better when I can get the practice in, for sure I am not arrogant when I say that there's still techs I can develop to maximize my play, I'm definitely always reading and trying to add more tricks which could give me a better advantage. If I don't follow the meta then I will fall behind way too hard.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lol I just throw wise-cracks in all directions. I'm a goofball above all else.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Oh btw I can't believe I forgot you @
Bizzarro Flame
any input you could add once i make the techchasing thread would be MUCH appreciated!
Bizzarro Flame
any input you could add once i make the techchasing thread would be MUCH appreciated!
Divinokage
Smash Legend
His techchase is always Dair though.. I mean why not.. lol.Oh btw I can't believe I forgot you @
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Lmao. He just stomps the competition.
GanonMaster
Smash Apprentice
Dair-->dair-->dair-->...
continue until foe is dead!
continue until foe is dead!
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Why doesn't bizz get an MBA instead of whatever nerdy degree he's currently doing? He's all about that corporate takeover
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I will be at Tipped Off 10.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
One thing I do every now and again is CC>dtilt (knockdown)>dsmash or WF. They either tech in place or away most of the time. This mostly works on the fast fallers.
As for the best follow ups, stomp is always great if you know you're gonna get the hard read. Fair is good if you can't reach them with stomp and then I like to do perfect waveland into regrab if they are DIing away and I can tell that they intend to tech away. It's rare that this situation occurs and you can't fair, but it definitely happens. Another couple of good options for this situation include waveland jab and waveland tilt (note that you do have to waveland for a guaranteed follow up, so your reaction time should be pretty good). <---- you can WF too.
As for our treatment of kage: Renth, we all know he's the best, there's no questioning it. But there's nothing wrong with some competition! I've never said anything with the actual intent of degrading him (or any other player, for that matter), but I like ACE's school of thought lol... just some **** talk to up the competition a little bit and get the blood flowing aka the wife approach (SO to the smash documentary). I would be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks that he's actually bad at this game.
All that said, kage, money match at our next tournament! Pseudo-dorf is getting better and better with each play (even if that is like once a month).
As for the best follow ups, stomp is always great if you know you're gonna get the hard read. Fair is good if you can't reach them with stomp and then I like to do perfect waveland into regrab if they are DIing away and I can tell that they intend to tech away. It's rare that this situation occurs and you can't fair, but it definitely happens. Another couple of good options for this situation include waveland jab and waveland tilt (
As for our treatment of kage: Renth, we all know he's the best, there's no questioning it. But there's nothing wrong with some competition! I've never said anything with the actual intent of degrading him (or any other player, for that matter), but I like ACE's school of thought lol... just some **** talk to up the competition a little bit and get the blood flowing aka the wife approach (SO to the smash documentary). I would be hard-pressed to find someone who thinks that he's actually bad at this game.
All that said, kage, money match at our next tournament! Pseudo-dorf is getting better and better with each play (even if that is like once a month).
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Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
D-air is definitely the most efficient punishment for techchasing, and if your opponent does not expect it, then you can d-air again so they forget to tech, then you can d-air again.Oh btw I can't believe I forgot you @
I hope that helps!
Coastward
Smash Lord
im gonna out place all of you at big house btw
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Is this before or after I take all your money?
Coastward
Smash Lord
before, afterwards you'll be buying me a nice steak dinner after the ass whoop.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
I expected no less. Lol. I planned on talking about dair in the section "maximizing punishment"
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It would actually be really helpful if you could provide insight such as situations in which they're more likely to miss the tech, what to do if they do miss a tech (for example, I'm guessing people usually buffer roll away if they miss the tech, so you jump to where they will roll and dair again) and things like that.
edit: Lately i've started enjoying dair as a midair punishment at mid or sometimes even high %s when the fair won't really set them up for an easy edgeguard, and that extra % (and possible techchase opportunity) will make it easier on me next time I hit them since ganon scales so well with his opponent's damage.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
@
-ACE-
I have updated the Knockdown Thread with Falco info. http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorfs-knockdown-data.360530/ I made some small adjustments to clarify my data a bit better (clarifying CC percents). Only real noticeable difference between Fox and Falco is that Falco can CC slightly better than Fox. Tomorrow I will do Falcon.
-ACE-
I have updated the Knockdown Thread with Falco info. http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorfs-knockdown-data.360530/ I made some small adjustments to clarify my data a bit better (clarifying CC percents). Only real noticeable difference between Fox and Falco is that Falco can CC slightly better than Fox. Tomorrow I will do Falcon. Just checked that out, stuff is going to be really helpful imo. Good ****@
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
With all the money I'll be getting? Look no offense or anything, but that money's mine and I'm not buying **** for the scrubs who were unfortunate enough to donate to the pseudoturtle fund.
In seriousness, mid-air dair is actually a really good option when the oppoent won't be set up for an easy edge guard with a fair/other areal. It builds percent and, more importantly, keeps the opponent at your mercy by setting up for another tech chase situation.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
The most likely they will miss their tech is when you downthrow and jab at the last possible frame where it will hit because they will expect to tech the downthrow but then if they do and you jab them, they cannot tech it.. which is a free Fair or Dair pop-up with good timing if they are close enough after. That's my favorite setup. =P It works more notably on spacies.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I'm definitely going to try this on the next spacie that I play. I didn't know you had to make the jab really late so that it makes them miss their tech. Good stuff.
GanonMaster
Smash Apprentice
give me some money to go from Norway to the Big House and I'll wreck you all.
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Coastward
Smash Lord
currency exchange is gonna **** me over, i need like an extra $100 just to make sure im all set.
i hate you usa
i hate you usa
Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
Divinokage
Smash Legend
If you can, you might as well CG though! Master that **** too! Since downthrow into jab mixup works only at like 40-50% I think.. Maybe a bit higher.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
So what percent should I start CGing Fox and Falco, respectively? Above 60? Reliably chain-grab I mean.
Coastward
Smash Lord
at 0%.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
First if you do master the CG, that mixup can become even more dangerous due to how fast you need to be to CG the spacies. They will likely think like: "I don't know when the jab is coming" But you should probably do it at lower % if you can. I know it's pretty hard but after 70, I normally choose to send them off-stage asap so I can get an easy edgeguard. Their option off-stage due to how strong Ganon hits prior to them being off-stage should be fairly easy to edgeguard. You just have to know when they want to start their Up-B or side-B.. its always gonna be Up-B below the ledge.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Locke it completely depends on platform(s) location(s) relative to where you are on stage, as well as how far away you are from the ledge. Obviously the CG is a test of your reaction speed to DI, so you set your own limit. Like say, if you we're only fast enough to CG falco once he reaches 100%. This reduces your options, but if you grab falco at 100% anywhere near the center of FD or DL64, taking them up to 140-145% and giving them the purple boot is a given KO and should always be used. 65-70% is where I could start CG'ing at when in practice, which helps. Also I believe >65% is the line where turnaround grab no longer works for DI behind, so I could just jc grab in the direction of their DI. Oddly most people DI straight left/right while being CG'd but you must be ready for partial DI also (jc grab will overshoot/whiff).
Fox same thing but harder from being #1 in fall acceleration and the fact that he doesn't pop up as high as falco when hit. It's insanely hard really. Once fox is at a % where you can CG him he should have already been dead, essentially.
Your use of the CG should depend completely on how well you have mastered it. If you feel you may drop a grab, it's best to take kage's advice and opt for an easy techchase into edgeguard.
Fox same thing but harder from being #1 in fall acceleration and the fact that he doesn't pop up as high as falco when hit. It's insanely hard really. Once fox is at a % where you can CG him he should have already been dead, essentially.
Your use of the CG should depend completely on how well you have mastered it. If you feel you may drop a grab, it's best to take kage's advice and opt for an easy techchase into edgeguard.
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spider_sense
Smash Champion
I don't treat Kage like a trash, at least I recycle. 
jk kage. <3
jk kage. <3
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
@
-ACE-
I have now added information for Captain Falcon. http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorfs-knockdown-data.360530/
It looks to me like the order of who can CC better and gets knocked down later so far is Falcon > Falco > Fox.
Which character would you like for me to acquire data on next?
-ACE-
I have now added information for Captain Falcon. http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorfs-knockdown-data.360530/It looks to me like the order of who can CC better and gets knocked down later so far is Falcon > Falco > Fox.
Which character would you like for me to acquire data on next?
Coastward
Smash Lord
sheik or puff@
It looks to me like the order of who can CC better and gets knocked down later so far is Falcon > Falco > Fox.
Which character would you like for me to acquire data on next?
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Honestly that's good enough (for me anyway... feel free to continue), techchasing is much more prevalent when playing fastfallers so that's what the thread will cover, it will just be a LOT more in depth than the old techchasing thread, especially in regard to strategy. Thank you Locke. Character weight helps the power of crouch canceling, or any form of downward ASDI for that matter.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I'm not sure about Puff cause knocking her down isn't really gonna do much plus she's gonna be in the air a lot, and due to her low weight she can't CC many things. Sheik on the other hand, I could do her, maybe not tomorrow, but I'll do it after this weekend, or next time I play a Sheik in tournament.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Ahh that little Jiggs. Beating a top Jiggs is very difficult because like Fox you can't battle her within point blank range since she has moves that starts up faster than you and you can't risk whiffing a jab when she could be possibly crouching as well. I tried to train to get a dash grab on Jiggs as well very recently with the 20xx hackpack and it didn't turn very good, the timing is pretty ridiculous which is where in general you must beat her in footsies with tilts on the ground without letting her get inside if shes close by. When she's crouching after a while there's a little animation where she pops upwards very slightly and you have to aim at that timing but we all know theres no way Jiggs will stay crouching for several seconds so that strategy is terrible.
But ya you basically have to beat her in the air as she can't CC very well Ganon's move due to her super light weight.
@
-ACE-
, how good do you think upwards ftilt is good in this matchup? I dont see many opportunities to use it since she's floating around back and forth a lot. Do you think its a good mixup along with Uairs since she would think shes safe to approach but then theres a foot in her face? lol.Though in this matchup, I find it kinda unfortunate you can't do many aerials. You have to be incredibly precise with Bairs, uairs and rarely Fair sometimes. You have to basically be able to call when she's going to be shielding to get a good grab setup and also because of that not get caught to waveland forward too much since she can probably smash you first before you can throw out something after the waveland. I suppose a good way to make her shield is literally calling her aerials for a counter-attack very often where she will have to think twice before challenging you which is where she'll most likely start doing grounded moves. Beating her aerials straight up is basically having sick spacing to make her think she will be able to hit you but you'll be 1 millimeter out of range. That's the kind of spacing you need to beat her, mixing up wavelands, DDs or even doing nothing sometimes. It's so hard to describe exactly when to use it, it requires much experience. =( You have to know exactly her range and your range as well so you dont get caught whiffing ANYTHING. Her punish is far greater than yours for sure.
Anyways, drunk rant.. i guess. =P
LOL, I'm dead.I don't treat Kage like a trash, at least I recycle.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Sure kage, high ftilt has it's place, more so with Jiggs than most other matchups since he's almost always approaching with aerials/playing aerial footsies. Its weaknesses are obvious, it's like a regular ftilt in most other matchups.
You should drunk rant more often. That summary of the jiggs matchup is very accurate.
You should drunk rant more often. That summary of the jiggs matchup is very accurate.