Social General Ice Climber Chat

[ilysm]

This is not a full answer to your question, just a couple cute lil tricks I enjoy: pivot desync -> Popo jab causes Nana to dash attack. It's really great at tricking your opponent into thinking they've got a clear shot at Nana and then punishing. Pivot desync -> Popo smash attack also tends to make opponents think they can punish you, but you can cover with Nana before they can do anything. One thing that I don't see utilized often is any desync into Nana dash grab—you can usually get a followup off of Nana's throw on reaction if you're fast, and an even better followup if you have a read. It works super well at an opponent who's on the ledge, since you can trick them into getting up only to get grabbed by Nana into hopefully a handoff or other followup. I like wavedashing in place to bait out reactions, especially on tech chase. I've also found that mixing up empty hop, short hop -> waveland straight down, empty jump desync, and short hop -> perfect waveland can make your opponent nervous even a stage's distance away. And that perfect waveland is so good for closing distance fast and scaring the bejeezus out of your opponent. I'm no expert on baiting, so more high-level baits that involve movement and spacing are a mystery to me that I'm trying to crack. Gotta git gud.

That said (this might sound pretty obvious), try and use Nana as a bait sparingly. Doing it too often leaves you with a dead Nana at an awful time in a worst case scenario. Even if she doesn't die, every tick your % gets too far from Nana's means every hit from the enemy will send you farther and farther apart, and that's a bad look. Icies players need to be smart, so be smart I guess.

 

[TrevR]

Went to a phenomenal tournament this past Saturday and did a handoff on druggedfox here. Almost got another too, but I dropped it LMAO. I'm still extremely happy and proud of the first one though. Anyways, if any of you guys ever are in SFL and it's around the time of a TGL, you should definitely go. It's a fantastic tournament and you're bound to have tons of fun.

That said (this might sound pretty obvious), try and use Nana as a bait sparingly. Doing it too often leaves you with a dead Nana at an awful time in a worst case scenario. Even if she doesn't die, every tick your % gets too far from Nana's means every hit from the enemy will send you farther and farther apart, and that's a bad look. Icies players need to be smart, so be smart I guess.

The desyncs are something I need to master. I don't even know how to pivot, nor do I really know what they are. I'll definitely have to learn that. And I need to incorporate more thinking into my game, and I'll be sure to search for examples of good baits.

 

[Archelon]

Went to a phenomenal tournament this past Saturday and did a handoff on druggedfox here. Almost got another too, but I dropped it LMAO. I'm still extremely happy and proud of the first one though. Anyways, if any of you guys ever are in SFL and it's around the time of a TGL, you should definitely go. It's a fantastic tournament and you're bound to have tons of fun.



The desyncs are something I need to master. I don't even know how to pivot, nor do I really know what they are. I'll definitely have to learn that. And I need to incorporate more thinking into my game, and I'll be sure to search for examples of good baits.

That was an awesome handoff.

 

[NTRN]

Let me know if this is new, guys, but I found a way to grab and f smash easy at the same time from standing. It is a combination of 2 techniques:

1. dash away popo dash-attack/Nana fsmash performed by dash attacking before Nana has turned around.
2. is a technique of limited use to ICS, the boost grab, which cancels the dash attack into a grab.

Since only popo is dash attacking, only he goes for the grab, while Nana's fsmash can be charged at will as long as the 'a' or 'z' is held down. It can be done out of wave dash and if you charge the smash, I bet you could hit them if they spot dodged your grab.

As another version where Nana grabs and popo swings, you do a different version of the smash/dash attack, this time with popo smashing. This can be done by pivoting an fsmash with 'a'. And then cancelling Nana with the boost grab

I'm trying to get some video up about this, but my capture is misbehaving. Let me know if this is already well known.

 

[Makoto-Y&Y]

I have used the 2nd manner of this technique before myself. (The Popo f-smash charge and Nana grab),
but I never saw too much use in it. While it does cover 2 options I find it a tad too hard to execute for the reward.

 

[NTRN]

I find the first method actually has good speed and reliability out of WD, the dash, attack shield just sort of naturally happens. I dunno, I will see how much I can apply it. I generally go for a WD in, dashaway Nana fsmash to popo totally free to follow up, or even a dashaway popo usmash, Nana sh bair.

Edit: hah, now I look dumb. I just watched wobbles most recent steam, with the new controller, and he was doing pivot jab/boostgrabs.

 

[LDSenpai]

My brother and I are trying to work on doubles, any tips for an ICs / Sheik team?

 

[LDSenpai]

I have a good punish game and solid tech, but I'm having a hard time developing a neutral... I feel like I am only doing things on reaction and autopiloting. Any tips? :/

 

[Archelon]

At Summit 2 this past weekend, I saw Wobbles get Nana onto the ledge for edgeguardin a couple of times. Sorry I can't find it in the vod right now, but does anyone know how to do it? Thanks.

 

[NTRN]

I have a good punish game and solid tech, but I'm having a hard time developing a neutral... I feel like I am only doing things on reaction and autopiloting. Any tips? :/

A good punish and solid tech, but difficulty in neutral/autopiloting are good indicators of a lot of solo practice or playing against a small sample of people. Best way to develop a 'neutral' that works is to play different people and different styles. Learn what works and what doesn't for each sort of style, and know how to quickly recognize them. It is likely that you get a bit stuck in your technical mindset, or you are looking for one of your practiced openings for your punish and your opponent isn't giving it to you. It is also important to know that the styles are all dynamic and changing. When you figure out something that works, your opponent is going to change in response, so you always have to adapt.

I guess, for neutral, look less at what you are good at, and look more at what you are bad at. ie identify what you are getting punished for and think of ways to mitigate that. Doesn't matter how good your wobbling is if you can't trick your opponent into giving you the grab, but you are in luck, because the ice climbers have the deepest bag of tricks in the cast.

 

[Fugibean]

Can someone fill me in on what Icies do when marth gets a dtilt on sheild? Like is it ****ing punishable? I often try to SH fair OOS but that seems to be pretty reactable because I usually get up tilted for it. I know its probably not actually punishable if spaced well but I thought I'd check.

 

[Smasher89]

Marth Dtilting is one of his bnb in neutral since he can do anything during his early IASA frames of it, dont get stuck in shield against it. Fair has slow startup, dair would be more likely to hit oos but do think about what you can get from that.

 

[LDSenpai]

There is a good Doc player that I really want to beat. I have no knowledge in this MU, he really likes using pills, and advice?

 

[OddishGuy]

Hey climbers!

Some random info that's good to know. When ICs are desynched we can get Nana to jump. "The force," however, will pull her back down to Popo. This means that Nana's desynched hops are shorter than normal.

Air Time Comparison
Synched SH | Nana Solo SH
30 frames airtime | 26 frames airtime
Synched Full-Hop | Nana Solo Full-Hop
58 frames airtime | 43 frames airtime

*no fast-falls

This information is applicable to a lot of things. Some of the more notable things is to get Nana to Auto-Cancel a solo Upair, she needs to FH, or if you want Nana to have a fast SHAC Bair, you can't fast-fall as early as you do with Popo.

 

[S2rulL]

Hey climbers!

Some random info that's good to know. When ICs are desynched we can get Nana to jump. "The force," however, will pull her back down to Popo. This means that Nana's desynched hops are shorter than normal.

Air Time Comparison
Synched SH | Nana Solo SH
30 frames airtime | 26 frames airtime
Synched Full-Hop | Nana Solo Full-Hop
58 frames airtime | 43 frames airtime

*no fast-falls

This information is applicable to a lot of things. Some of the more notable things is to get Nana to Auto-Cancel a solo Upair, she needs to FH, or if you want Nana to have a fast SHAC Bair, you can't fast-fall as early as you do with Popo.

christ Oddish, always with the crazy lab ****, good stuff

 

[windmillHunter]

OddishGuy I think I found some kind of application of "the force's" interaction. Not sure if it's been previously posted but it seems somewhat obscure, so maybe this is new information.

Normally, of course, the frame difference between an action caused by an input for popo and nana is 6 frames, i.e., a jump is input on frame 1, and nana does it 6 frames later and they'll have been in the wait state some time later for a time popo = n frames and nana = n-6 frames. However, I found that by inputting a fastfall on the first possible frame of a short hop (the first frame that popo is in the fall state, or inputting and advancing frame on fall 0 as it's notated in the developer mode frame counter) or the first possible frame to the sixth possible frame of a full hop (inputting and advancing within fall 0 to fall 5 of the fall state as it's notated in the developer mode frame counter), the difference becomes 5 frames on landing. Replication of this makes it so that the times in the wait state at the end are popo = n frames, and nana = n-5 frames. Effectively, nana lands a frame earlier than popo did if one compares their paths side-by-side.

I think this is because the rate of change of the force on nana due to popo changes depending on whether popo's fall speed switches from 'normal' too 'fast fall'. But, due to the circumstances of the physics of their jumps (which I'm sure would be very interesting to do the math on and model but not nearly worth the time to do so) and how I'm assuming the way melee displaying and calculating positions affects these physics, only the range of frames presented above produced differing results when I was testing.

I could find one consequence of this, and it has to do with how one is able to act upon landing, so I suppose it's a variation on the landing lag desync. Normally, popo is able to act on frame 4 of being on the ground (inputting and advancing on landing 3 in dev frame counter). Acting on this frame results in a landing lag desync off a full hop. For more information on that desync, search for OddishGuys's (I think) post about it in this general chat thread. For this application, however, you act on frame 3 of popo being on the ground (inputting and advancing on landing 2 in the dev frame counter). Under normal circumstances, nana would simply attempt to mimic the input on frame 3 of being on the ground and fail. However, the fastfall inputted before effectively pushed nana forward a frame, so she lands on the stage a frame earlier and has been on the ground for 4 frames (in landing 3 in dev frame counter) when the input reaches her, allowing her to actually do the input. I was able to successfully have nana alone perform attacks, dash, walk, and do specials as a result of this while advancing frame-by-frame. RTA-wise, I could only really do it with ice block twice after about several minutes of attempting.

I originally set out to investigate this in an effort to improve sh ac bair > dsmash using landing lag desyncs to cover more options. I determined that moving backward for the duration of the jump and inputting the bair on frames 4 to 10 of being in the air (input bair on jumpb 3 through 9 in dev frame counter) and not fastalling produces the same effect as the method above, and I was able to execute it off this scenario as well at least once. The timing also works when both climbers induce hitlag as a result of hitting an opponent or shield with the bairs. However, you still must input the move you want nana to do the frame before popo is able to act out of landing, which means the essence of this desync is still a 1 frame input.

While I don't know how one would follow up hitting a non-shielding opponent with the bairs using this method, I sought to follow up on hitting shield with the bairs using this method. My initial assumption was that having nana downsmash would create the illusion of double downsmashing while allowing popo to cover other things using dd grabs. Unfortunately, having nana act first in this manner does not afford the climbers anything extra in terms of strict shield advantage as far as I know, since popo sacrificing his downsmash to cover with another option means that the opponent has a frame window 6 frames wider than regular sh ac bair > downsmash with which to escape. Since opponents sometimes don't respect ac bair > downsmash on shield anyway, this might simply allow them to mindlessly escape unpunished. Nana could also turn around in the created window and dashgrab, but because this takes at least 2 frames, popo must also grab, leaving little time to follow up if nana's grab connects. I did discover that if nana uses her advantage to blizzard and popo dashes behind the opponent and does a turnaround grab, nana slides into perfect position to start a wobble from blizzard and it looks really flashy. However, in conclusion, this method of having nana act first for that shield pressure seems little more than a flashier, needlessly-overcomplicated tomahawk.

 

[Kyu Puff]

We talked about Nana landing a frame early once or twice before in this thread, and occasionally in FB chat, but the information is hard to find. It is the cause of the "reverse landing desynch", as you mentioned, and also a frame perfect "reverse l-cancel desynch" where you input the l-cancel one frame early and Nana acts first. I haven't spent too much time looking into specific applications where it might be useful, so kudos for that. Coincidentally, I am also in the middle of writing the section of my mechanics guide regarding the effects of Nana's force, so we have similar things on our minds...

 

[OddishGuy]

windmillHunter Great post man!

I know very little of the FF desync, and there are hardly any posts on it. I looked into it and wrote about it long ago but basically only complained about how hard it was, haha. TBH yours is probably one of the best written posts on the matter. I do remember that the FF has to be timed, as this desync does not work off of any FF. So essentially you are looking for two frame perfect actions for this desync: firstly, FFing on one of the correct frames, and secondly getting the nana input.

However, off of a FH with no FF this desync works (no FF for the FF desync, who names this stuff >_>). So from FH AC Nair, or something of that nature, this only requires the frame perfect input for Nana upon landing rather than timing the FF. This is also the setup for the "stuck" decync where popo will iceblock while Nana lands a frame early.

I was also able to replicate what you said about doing this after hitting a shielding opponent, with no FF required where it usually would be. However, this seems to be possible with or without hitting the opponent. Bair seems to distort the ECB so that Nana lands a frame early. This explains how she sometimes misses the AC on her Bair and such. It's possible I misread your post, but from what I'm seeing here hitting the opponent actually has no effect (unless only one climber connects, but that is hitlag desync stuff).

This is actually kind of annoying because it means that the landing desync is actually impossible with some AC timings of Bair. I knew that FFing could mess up the landing desync, but I never knew about Bair changing Nana's landing timing.

Excellent content though, thanks again for the information Also, is that name a shout out to Don Quixote or?

 

[Archelon]

Does 20XX Training Pack mess up Nana's AI compared to vanilla melee at all?

 

[windmillHunter]

Kyu Puff, I figured there was no way that it could be completely new information, which is why having your guide to centralize information will be great. How much more work on it do you have to do before it's postable? I'm looking forward to reading it

But yeah, OddishGuy, I think I wrote that hitting the opponent has no effect, but I wrote with kinda odd formatting, so my b. In terms of the timings making the reverse landing lag desync impossible, the window for inputting the Bair is like frame 4-10 vs like 1-11 or so for regular AC Bair, so at least the window is pretty forgiving for the first input.

I didn't know that FH AC Nair, or simply FH with no FF, desynced the same way, so that's pretty interesting. Although, what you said about Nana sometimes missing the AC on SH Bair intrigues me as to possible consequences or followups. I would imagine that Nana missing her AC would allow Popo to act and set up a happy little desync to go off of, similar to an l-cancel desync. Does she only miss the AC if you Bair on the last AC frame and land her a frame early?

And yeah, it is a Don Quixote reference lol, although I enter tournaments with the tag turtles because windmillHunter is kinda long to say

 

[RyseEX]

What's your guys thoughts on using a pivot jab against a spacie when the keep using running shine? Also is pivot dsmash into iceblock against marth good. It seems safer than double, triple, spot, dodge, and roll desyncs

 

[OddishGuy]

Does 20XX Training Pack mess up Nana's AI compared to vanilla melee at all?

No.

What's your guys thoughts on using a pivot jab against a spacie when the keep using running shine? Also is pivot dsmash into iceblock against marth good. It seems safer than double, triple, spot, dodge, and roll desyncs

Jabs and other proactive moves like SHAC Bair are good against spacies with a running shine strategy. Pivots are great for microspacing and desyncing quickly. That said, I don't think you can react to the running shine if the spacey is close enough, so the microspacing aspect doesn't matter as much unless you think you'll catch them with the mixed up spacing from the pivot from reading their approach. I don't think desynching is the most amazing thing against a shine heavy Fox but I suppose it depends on the playstyle.
Essentially, go for pivot jabs if you think you can benefit from the desync, if you're just trying to hard read their movement I'd go for something with more reward though.

Desyched iceblocks and blizzards are good against Marth. I do not think D-smash is good against Marth, but pivot D-smash sets up for a fast Nanapult, so that's nice. If you don't like rolling and such, you can start your deynched iceblocks out of the DD desync just like you can with blizzards. You could also pivot jump iceblock which is as good as it is hard to perform, haha :D

 

[Archelon]

No.
:D

Thanks.

 

[OddishGuy]

Hey climbers! Here with a small post about optimization.

There was an old post I found from StrongBad about squall that I got to look into recently. The gist of it is that squall starts out with a velocity 7/5ths as fast as usual. This means that when you start Squall you're going faster than when you start drifiting with squall. The only problem is that you start affecting squall frame 2. This means that to get that burst of squall speed you need to let the control stick get back into neutral immediately after initiating the squall. Of course, starting out fast isn't the greatest thing in the world if you don't try to drift at all, you'll simply start out at that 7/5ths speed and approach 0 pretty quick. The optimal time to start applying drift is frame 25(ish). If you move the control stick out of neutral and start drifting around then, you can get a bit more than a full character's length of extra distance.

So essentially
Frame 0: direction + B
Frame 1: stick back in neutral
Frame 2-10ish: stick in neutral
Frame 20-30ish: move the stick from neutral to the side
Frame 30+: hold stick in that direction.

There's an easy way to practice this. Go onto BF, get near an edge, Full Jump, squall without mashing B. If you do it right you'll clear the platform, if you hold the direction for too long you'll end up touching the platform. It looks like this*

Link in case gfy doesn't load here: https://gfycat.com/NeighboringScratchyBlackbear
*I am not mashing B or touching the control stick after innitiating the squall.

It's somewhat impractical, but when you have a DBZ trade and miss making it back to the stage by one character length in grand finals of EVO 20XX, I'll be saying I told you so


Another small note, this time regarding iceblock. We all know that iceblock pops us up, so this has implications for getting out fast iceblocks. I like to use synched iceblocks from time to time and even my Sopo uses a WD back iceblock or two while I run away from my DDing opponent. However, grounded iceblocks are super laggy, 59 frames of fun to be precise. If we SH and then iceblock 3 frames later we get an iceblock out in 54 frames! That's much faster. But what happens if we iceblock frame perfectly instead of chilling in the air for 3 frames? Well you'd think it'd be 54-3 frames, but it's actually 49 frames! Because iceblock pops us up, we get almost twice the shaved off airborne frames for every frame earlier we shoot it in the air.

This makes sense and may be common knowledge, but it's just a small encouragement to work on SH iceblocks because the benefit is better than normal. Although iceblocks are used more sparingly so I guess it evens out ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Thanks for reading! :D

 

[LDSenpai]

What do ICs have for OoS options? In general and specially against a Falco who likes to cross up my shield or punish shield grabs with a shine.

 

[TrashWizard]

What makes the Peach - ICs matchup so bad for ICs? I feel as if I am missing something.

 

[ilysm]

Every move she has splits us up, her float and aerials give her all the tools to abuse the spaces that are hard for us to threaten (diagonally in front of/above us, and of course we can't grab her while she's in the air) while still walloping us with her good-coverage aerials, she hardly needs to commit at all to kill Nana due to float and float-cancelling and negates almost all of Popo's approach options with float and CC because her air game is comparatively great and ours is...not, and to cap it off there aren't very many opportunities to punish her for things, especially on shield, because literally no lag on aerials lol.

 

[NTRN]

For peach, how is dash in pivot jump fh Nana bair with popo retreating below? It looks solid and like it hits the float heights, and popo can counterhit/combo if need be.
It is also wicked quick.

And if you get consistent pivot jumps, you can easily mix in iceblocks for the low option, and aerial blizzard for a persistent hitbox.

Also things like dash in pivot usmash to bait approach, then fh or sh advancing bair. Or even usmash-fsmash, slightly syncopated to throw off timing.

If you get hit you gotta scramble real hard though.

 

[TrashWizard]

Thanks for the quick replies guys and gals, I just recently got way back into Ice Climbers and wanted to know what was up when I heard commentators saying peach has an amazing matchup against Ice Climbers.

Oh, and I have another question: What makes platform camping so good against ICs?

 

[NTRN]

Oh, and I have another question: What makes platform camping so good against ICs?

Poor aerial mobility and no real good/fast hit boxes below or in front to chase and a preference for staying close to the ground.

 

[OddishGuy]

What do ICs have for OoS options? In general and specially against a Falco who likes to cross up my shield or punish shield grabs with a shine.

Bair is typically my go to. Upair if you want to call them out on doing an aerial pressure such as Dair->Dair or shine -> FH shenanigans.
Nair can work if they are at mid %, if they are at low % they won't get knocked down and they'll likely be able to continue their aggression.
FH Dair can work if you can make it to a platform. It hits frame 3 like Luigi Nair, but the KB is so poor that you'll end up eating an F-smash even after it connects if you try to SHFFL the Dair. FHing to a platform makes it a decent option, the higher the platform the better in this case, so I'd mainly use it on BF and DL.
Buffered roll is a viable option at any %.

Don't Upsmash, Fair, or spotdodge against Falco pressure.

 

[LDSenpai]

What are some good recent sets to watch when wanting to improve in the Falco MU?

 

[Uchihadark7]

What are some good recent sets to watch when wanting to improve in the Falco MU?

This one here.

 

[ilysm]

LDSenpai If you're just looking for footage to study, these two may help off the top of my head.

Also, with regards to your Doc question (I know it was ages ago but I missed it! sorry), here's a set between Eagle, a top Doc main in Europe and #1 on the Danish PR, and Tomber, a top ICs main in Europe who I think is super underrated and I am trying to learn a lot from. There's also a much older set here; should give you a rough idea of what to abuse if you've exhausted the first one.

 

[Uchihadark7]

LDSenpai If you're just looking for footage to study, these two may help off the top of my head.

Also, with regards to your Doc question (I know it was ages ago but I missed it! sorry), here's a set between Eagle, a top Doc main in Europe and #1 on the Danish PR, and Tomber, a top ICs main in Europe who I think is super underrated and I am trying to learn a lot from. There's also a much older set here; should give you a rough idea of what to abuse if you've exhausted the first one.

The whole LTC3 tournament, Wobbles was on fire. Anyone looking to improve should definitely watch Wobbles.

 

[jaseroque]

Kind of a random question but where would ICs rank on a ground speed tier list? It came up in a conversation with a friend. I feel like with perfect wavedashing ICs would be faster than Marth at, say, getting across FD.

 

[TrashWizard]

Like the post above this is a bit of a random question, but I recently painted my controller and something must have happened to the circuit board as whenever I use the C stick only one Ice Climber does the input that I perform, so I can do desynced aerials and smashes really easily, does anyone know how to stop this phenomenon?

EDIT: Nevermind, I think I might have done something on my 20XX to make c stick inputs only register for one ice climber.

 

[Waldoring]

Kind of a random question but where would ICs rank on a ground speed tier list? It came up in a conversation with a friend. I feel like with perfect wavedashing ICs would be faster than Marth at, say, getting across FD.

http://smashboards.com/threads/ultimate-ground-movement-analysis-turbo-edition.392367/

This should have all the data you need and more.

 

[OddishGuy]

Heyyyo. Just a quick topic continuing post.

Following up on WindmillHunter's discussion on reverse landing desync, AKA FF desync, AKA Nana lands 1 frame sooner because dat gravity.

Stuck Nana desync is an extension of the reverse landing desync using iceblock's pop up mechanic. Here is an example I whipped up of the stuck Nana desync, wherein Nana does not get popped up by an iceblock because she lands too soon. I use an AC FH Nair as an easy initiator for this, but an empty FH would work just as well, or anything with a precise FF.

Link in case Gfy doesn't load here: https://gfycat.com/ConventionalNeighboringFrenchbulldog

Since this is done with iceblocks, it would mostly be used to setup some camping shenanigans, perhaps trying to bait someone down from a platform and then catch them with desynched iceblocks -> iceblock chase -> grab. Stuff like that. It's not incredibly useful because although iceblock is a great move it takes a while and I'd rather have Nana doing it. But if you want something that gives you a lot of leeway on Nana actions like a Nanapult, this may be for you. Moving on.

Here is a nifty sequence utilyzing the reverse landing desync. This could be more easily done by just full jump empty hopping, but AC's are fun so I use a late SH Bair for this one. This is what WindmillHunter mentioned as a possible method.

Link in case Gfy doesn't load here: https://gfycat.com/ImperturbableFlatChameleon

Well that's nifty, but how else can I set this up? Let's talk about non FF methods.

I am generally not a fan of reverse landing desyncs from anything but FH's since those provide a reliable setup; timing a frame tight FF off of other landing scenarios is impractical. To avoid anyone ever getting silly and trying to do that, here is a list of the reliable setups I know of.
Empty FH and FH AC's (Fair and Dair do not AC)
SHAC Late Bair, Bair is frame 5 or later (no FF)

Here is a table showing whether it is possible to activate the desync from landing after dropping through, or running off of, a platform on various stages. Note that this is for landing on the ground floor, not from platform to platform or Randall and such.

Reverse Landing Desync (no FF)
Stage | Side Platforms | Top Platform
BattleField | Drop and Run-off | Drop
Dreamland | Drop | Drop and Run-off
Final Destination | LOL | LOL no
Fountain of Dreams | not testing all that | No
Pokèmon Stadium | Drop | NA
Yoshi's Story | Drop | Drop and Run-off

Note: Activating the landing desync by walking off a platform rather than dropping through is inconsistent. Stages such as DL allow for possible walk off reverse landing desyncs, but I only say drop because the run off method is inconsistent on such stages. It is possible but it is much like trying to time the FF. The stages that I say "Run-off" works are stages where running off consistently sets up the reverse landing desync method.


Turns out this wasn't that small of a followup, haha. Reverse landing desync is extremely technical but the potential for its usage is pretty huge. Kind of Ice Climbers in a nutshell TBH. As always, thanks for reading ^_^/

 

[~kai~]

If someone could help me out with a question I've not been able to find a consistent answer to about IC's Squall Hammer. I've seen top players like Wobbles, Fly, and Chu get quite a bit of vertical distance when they use this. Is it simply a matter of mashing B? One answer I saw suggested there was an optimal number/rhythm and more inputs of B would get less vertical. I'm mostly interested in an answer for melee, but if it's different in PM, that'd be good to know too. Can someone clarify this?

Thanks,
~Kai~