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Social General Ice Climber Chat

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
Oh yeah, forgot to post about this, but I got 5th in doubles at this tournament over the weekend.
ICs+Samus
I was pretty sure it would be the worst team ever, but it turns out its actually incredible.
Samus is my new favorite partner second to falco.

ICs are so good in doubles, more people need to use them.
 

ChivalRuse

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They're definitely not "so good". They're better than you might think though.

They are already a high risk high reward character, but especially so in doubles.
 
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DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
no they are soooo good.
As long as they have an appropriate partner.
definitely top 10 doubles character, people just don't know.
Mostly because nobody even used them right in doubles, but w/e.
 

ChivalRuse

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Derf, I think that you're overlooking the fact that ICs are a top 10 character on the tier list. So that would make sense for them to be top 10 in doubles. But they're not outstanding or anything.
 

cemo

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man how does ICs Samus work? that double support style teams meta. i feel like you'd be tripping over eachother, but I could also see very strong ground control?
 
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ChivalRuse

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I don't know. I feel like that would cause the issue that Falco players have in teams where it's always questionable if you should shoot a laser for fear of hitting your teammate. Samus would have to be careful about shooting missiles because she might be potentially killing Nana with it or whatever.
 

The Webbiest Turnip

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
8
Hello.
I have never seen any other IC do this but i have done it many times successfully and believe it to work at low percents agaisnt Fast fallers such as fox, falco, and C Falcon

In Grab Forward Throw with Popo then make Nana short hop Neutral b and aiming for the swinging animation of her neutral b it pops the opponent up in perfect re-grab position

Also agaisnt peach at higher percents it puts her in perfect nana rocket range and at lower percents puts her in range for up Airs

If this is already known sorry for wasting yalls time, but i think this is pretty cool

I use this at 0 when i grab the spacies because ive been playing agaisnt people who struggle out like their payed to do so and this is quite effective

Please let me know if this is as legit as i think it is or if it doesn't quite work but i do think it would be cool to CG with forward throw because it does the most dmg

-The Webbiest Turnip
P.S I hate peach and enjoy making nana grab turnips then throw them at peach whilst in grab
 

Vanitas

Smash Ace
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Jan 30, 2010
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Final Destination
Hello.
I have never seen any other IC do this but i have done it many times successfully and believe it to work at low percents agaisnt Fast fallers such as fox, falco, and C Falcon

In Grab Forward Throw with Popo then make Nana short hop Neutral b and aiming for the swinging animation of her neutral b it pops the opponent up in perfect re-grab position

Also agaisnt peach at higher percents it puts her in perfect nana rocket range and at lower percents puts her in range for up Airs

If this is already known sorry for wasting yalls time, but i think this is pretty cool

I use this at 0 when i grab the spacies because ive been playing agaisnt people who struggle out like their payed to do so and this is quite effective

Please let me know if this is as legit as i think it is or if it doesn't quite work but i do think it would be cool to CG with forward throw because it does the most dmg

-The Webbiest Turnip
P.S I hate peach and enjoy making nana grab turnips then throw them at peach whilst in grab
I have tried this myself...the thing is that they can SDI away, making it difficult for a regrab to be possible. Sometimes, the lag of Nana finishing her neutral B causes her to lag behind you once you get the re-grab, so a follow up with Nana around might not be possible. A Sopo combo may be possible though however.
 

yetibutts

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
1
Hey guys,
I was watching one of Fly's vids against S2J and Fly manages to do a desynched popo side-b out of shield while nana blizzards. I was wondering how he did it?

Here's the video:
h ttp://youtu.be/OTFEtXj4qA0?t=2m58s
 

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
man how does ICs Samus work? that double support style teams meta. i feel like you'd be tripping over eachother, but I could also see very strong ground control?
nononononono
ICs are a terrible support in teams, you are the aggressor. Always, not just with samus.
Samus controls platforms, you control the ground.
She shoots missiles above your head, and it's amazing.

Then you play the bully strategy once you're out of neutral, like you should with any partner.
If you have one opponent pinned, samus walls the other out. If samus is being the aggressor, then you act as the wall.

I don't know. I feel like that would cause the issue that Falco players have in teams where it's always questionable if you should shoot a laser for fear of hitting your teammate. Samus would have to be careful about shooting missiles because she might be potentially killing Nana with it or whatever.
That's why falco is my favorite partner, he shoots lasers over your head and then intercept you if your opponent tries to do anything to you.
There was an old video of me teaming with a falco from my region and I lived until like 500% because every time my opponent tried to kill me i was intercepted by a laser and it canceled my knockback.

As for nana getting killed, that's irrelevant. Whenever I team with someone I haven't teamed with before I tell them to not worry about nana because she's just gonna die or run all over the stage like a headless chicken. You're pretty much playing sopo the entire time in teams, because nana is absolutely useless.
Hello.
I have never seen any other IC do this but i have done it many times successfully and believe it to work at low percents agaisnt Fast fallers such as fox, falco, and C Falcon

In Grab Forward Throw with Popo then make Nana short hop Neutral b and aiming for the swinging animation of her neutral b it pops the opponent up in perfect re-grab position

Also agaisnt peach at higher percents it puts her in perfect nana rocket range and at lower percents puts her in range for up Airs

If this is already known sorry for wasting yalls time, but i think this is pretty cool

I use this at 0 when i grab the spacies because ive been playing agaisnt people who struggle out like their payed to do so and this is quite effective

Please let me know if this is as legit as i think it is or if it doesn't quite work but i do think it would be cool to CG with forward throw because it does the most dmg

-The Webbiest Turnip
P.S I hate peach and enjoy making nana grab turnips then throw them at peach whilst in grab
yeah it's cool, not super practical most of the time, but good for style points.
Also you can wobble peach with her own turnips if you sync it correctly. It's really funny looking.
The only problem is that the turnip dies eventually, but you can get her to pretty high percent.
Works even better with mr.saturn.
You can also freeze-glitch peach if you have popo throw a turnip while nana throws.

Hey guys,
I was watching one of Fly's vids against S2J and Fly manages to do a desynched popo side-b out of shield while nana blizzards. I was wondering how he did it?

Here's the video:
h ttp://youtu.be/OTFEtXj4qA0?t=2m58s
It's pretty hard to do, but I really advise learning it, because it's really good.
Pretty much, nana can't upB or SideB by herself, so, if you jump out of shield and sideB quickly, nana will get confused because she's like 6 frames behind you or w/e, and she'll just do nothing, so you can input a blizzard or you can even make her nanapult.
It's a really awkward, fast input.
I do them like I do shine OoS with a spacey, hitting up on the c-stick and moving my thumb straight to the B button
 

Pr0fessor Flash

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ICs are so good in doubles, more people need to use them.
IC's are pretty bad its basically playing Sopo in teams in 2v1 situation your 100% losing and it depends on what character your teaming with like a Fox that's why I starting to use Falco in Doubles
 
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The Webbiest Turnip

Smash Rookie
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Jul 3, 2014
Messages
8
at a tournament recently i Turnip Wobbled with a stitch-face last stock def looked weird but worked great :). as for style points i like using different CGs on people mostly for fun but also so they do not expect whats coming next therefore missing a chance to SDI/DI/Tech away from my next CG..

As For teams I agree with Derf You must be the aggressor ill be it an aggressive sopo most of the time but along those lines I like teaming with puff the best the same way teaming with a peach or ganon is good because the Arial space dominance while i run around like a headless chicken on the ground
 

Psycho_Bayleef

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Nov 14, 2013
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Hey guys, I'm back from my small leave. In the meantime i've taken a break from melee but i've got the handoff pretty consistent, i just need to work on it and add nana dtilts and blizzards.
2 questions:
1) Has there been anything important here since fly/tomber were working on the Desynch shield stun tech?
2)what icies are going to Evo besides Fly, Chu, and Nintengod? I didn't see Tomber in any of the pools :c
 

cemo

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hrm I disagree about ICs having to be the aggressor, I have always found them better at using big disjointed hitboxes to wall out partners and holding the stage, rather than chasing down/cutting off options.

really we probably just play different ICs. :p
 
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DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
the wall strategy works well once you leave neutral, that's what using the bully strategy is.
In neutral you have to be aggressive for ICs to work. You need to actively control the ground. In doubles there are too many ways for people to get through walls.
 
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a13c

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
Messages
67
hey guys. so i was curious on the smash "gods" views on the character ice climbers.
 

Binx

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
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Portland, Oregon
the god's dont really post here you would have to pm them or ask them on twitter or reddit. As far as doubles strategy goes I really like just throwing on blizzards all the time and then going in ham since you dont run the risk of extended combos as much in doubles as an IC player.
 

Loket

Smash Cadet
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Apr 16, 2013
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Sweden
I have two questions.
When or in what matchups is lightshield better and when is fullshield better?
Whats the best punish if nana hits with a blizzard but the opponent DI's up and out of grabrange?
 

Psycho_Bayleef

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I have two questions.
When or in what matchups is lightshield better and when is fullshield better?
Whats the best punish if nana hits with a blizzard but the opponent DI's up and out of grabrange?
I like nair for the di question. Or dair and if you're swag enough have nana follow up the grab and convert into handoff if you can.

The smash "gods" don't post here except that one time Armada came in to clarify that peach fairs absolutely destroy icies.

There aren't really matchups where lightshielding or fullshielding is inherently better, it's just knowing when to do each.
 

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
hey guys. so i was curious on the smash "gods" views on the character ice climbers.
Mango thinks the ICs are 100% gimmicks
Armada thinks the ICs are fraudulent
M2k and Hbox think they are broken
and I haven't talked to peepee
 

Ocean

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OCEAN#0
ppmd thinks they are a interesting character but have a lot of flaws, we talked about it awhile ago
 

Psycho_Bayleef

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
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Worstshington State
Hello.
I have never seen any other IC do this but i have done it many times successfully and believe it to work at low percents agaisnt Fast fallers such as fox, falco, and C Falcon

In Grab Forward Throw with Popo then make Nana short hop Neutral b and aiming for the swinging animation of her neutral b it pops the opponent up in perfect re-grab position

Also agaisnt peach at higher percents it puts her in perfect nana rocket range and at lower percents puts her in range for up Airs

If this is already known sorry for wasting yalls time, but i think this is pretty cool

I use this at 0 when i grab the spacies because ive been playing agaisnt people who struggle out like their payed to do so and this is quite effective

Please let me know if this is as legit as i think it is or if it doesn't quite work but i do think it would be cool to CG with forward throw because it does the most dmg

-The Webbiest Turnip
P.S I hate peach and enjoy making nana grab turnips then throw them at peach whilst in grab
If your main follow up to a grab is the up b nana into them, don't use that follow up. All of the dthrow>nana action>popo grab CGs only work when your opponent doesn't know how to get out of them.

Also forward throw is a forward arc, popping them up wouldn't bring them into regrab position and you can wiggle out of the hitstun pretty easily.
 

The Webbiest Turnip

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If your main follow up to a grab is the up b nana into them, don't use that follow up. All of the dthrow>nana action>popo grab CGs only work when your opponent doesn't know how to get out of them.

Also forward throw is a forward arc, popping them up wouldn't bring them into regrab position and you can wiggle out of the hitstun pretty easily.
I never said my main follow up out of grab is to UP B nana rocket at them that would be cool but seems rather stupid. i know forward throw as a forward arc and the Neutral B doesn't work with the SDI away but is possible to follow up on that. There is potential with CGs that you cant escape from with forward throw. also if all the down throw>nana action>popo grab dont work are you saying wobbling along with handoffs are the only things that do?
 
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Loket

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Does anyone have any tips for the pivot jump desync where you turn around and only nana shoots an ice block? I can figure out how to do it
 

Psycho_Bayleef

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I never said my main follow up out of grab is to UP B nana rocket at them that would be cool but seems rather stupid. i know forward throw as a forward arc and the Neutral B doesn't work with the SDI away but is possible to follow up on that. There is potential with CGs that you cant escape from with forward throw. also if all the down throw>nana action>popo grab dont work are you saying wobbling along with handoffs are the only things that do?
I guess i should have clarified. They aren't guarenteed to work because they're all escapable. Handoff/wobbling are the only inescapable cg's if you do it right. The other CGs work at low%'s depending on who you're against. Personally i use dthrow dair/blizz into regrab when I'm center stage cause wobbling sometimes messes up how I play.
 

Gentlefox

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Messages
47
Does anyone have the frame data for dash-desync where you both dash forward, and only Nana does Blizzard?

It wasn't in the desync list, and I'm not pivoting or dash dancing. It's just straight dash->Blizzard but I can only get it 1/30 times.
 

Tomber

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 12, 2006
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243
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Denmark
Yo. I'm not coming to this place that much anymore, but if any of you would like to discuss ICs related things with me then you can find me on twitter @TomberDK. I just made the account yesterday, so it's pretty much blank, but I'm planning on posting ICs and smash specific stuff there from time to time.
 

unrendered

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Mango thinks the ICs are 100% gimmicks
Armada thinks the ICs are fraudulent
M2k and Hbox think they are broken
and I haven't talked to peepee
Armada said that IC's could be like number 6 or 5 on tierlist I think in M2Ks stream.
 
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cemo

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Does anyone have any tips for the pivot jump desync where you turn around and only nana shoots an ice block? I can figure out how to do it
Sure thing! It's not really a pivot. Dash, pause, hold the other way, unpause, nana will jump and popo will dash dance. during popo's dash input an ice block (or blizzard!). So I think both inputs probably have to be put in on the same frame? This is hard to do with an analog + a digital input.

This is different from a pivot, because the pivot input I think comes immediately after the turn around. If you pause on the standing frame, you can input a move as if standing. I thiiink this comes the next available frame from your input, so to do that turn around hop desync, I think the inputs need to be made on the same discrete frame. I could be wrong since I don't have TAS to test it, though.


Does anyone have the frame data for dash-desync where you both dash forward, and only Nana does Blizzard?

It wasn't in the desync list, and I'm not pivoting or dash dancing. It's just straight dash->Blizzard but I can only get it 1/30 times.

So you go from standing, to dash, to nana blizzard? How late do you feel you do the input when you get it? i'll test it out, if i can get it to work my assumption would be it is on the very last frame of the dash animation.
 
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Gentlefox

Smash Cadet
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Dec 6, 2013
Messages
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So you go from standing, to dash, to nana blizzard? How late do you feel you do the input when you get it? i'll test it out, if i can get it to work my assumption would be it is on the very last frame of the dash animation.
I may be mistaken, but I believe it's working with just a dash, then I release the stick immediately, and hit down+B some time between halfway through the dash, and the end of the dash (before it turns into a run).
 

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
the dash->nana blizzard works by abusing the fact that popo can't crouch out of initial dash.
so you crouch and blizzard with nana while popo is still in the initial dash animation.
it's basically the exact same as dash dance desync, just faster and harder to do.
 

Cervidae

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 2, 2014
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Tucson, AZ
What's a good follow up to a low percentage grab where Popo utilizes his full dash dance leaving Nana too far away to hand-off/down throw regrab? Should I just pummel once and buffer a down throw and follow up off of that? If it matters (I'm sure it does) the target is Fox.
 

cemo

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is it someone that mashes well? you could do d-throw into a tech chase, or try to hit them off an upthrow.
 

Cervidae

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is it someone that mashes well? you could do d-throw into a tech chase, or try to hit them off an upthrow.
Yeah, they mash pretty well. If I were to get a sub 8% grab they could possibly break out between the time it takes to pummel and to do an unbuffered throw. Should I just not pummel at all and go for the up throw + up smash instead of opting for a pummel? My logic behind pummeling is that it would buy Nana some time to return to me for more follow ups.
 
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