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Ganondorf Sword Mode for ProjectM

Discussion in 'Customized Content' started by Ashingda, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    The goal here is to add a switchable sword mode for Ganondorf while still retaining all of the ProjectM moveset.
    Very few things are changed on the normal fist mode, you will notice some slight animation changes to the right arm/hand.

    Use D-Taunt to activate sword mode and use D-Taunt again to switch back.


    Current Changes:
    Version 3.0 Big Update!

    Lots of animation fixes, new moves and also returning ones!

    Jab: Now is a 1~2~3 hit combo!
    F-Tilt: Restored to Thrust.
    D-Tilt: -Vanilla-
    U-Tilt: New! A simple upward sword strike.

    F-Smash: Restored to Elbow+Sword.
    D-Smash: Both hits connects now.
    U-Smash: New! This may need more work later, it's just way too big haha.

    N-Air: Same
    F-Air: Reworked the swing animation, looks smoother now.
    B-Air: New! Animation took way longer than I'd like.
    D-Air: -Vanilla-

    Neutral-B: Restored to earlier Sword version.
    Side-B: -Vanilla-
    Down-B: Restored to the Sword Rush attack
    Up-B: New! Ganondorf teleports through a portal. Unlike the other teleports he is limited to only going upwards, but deals damage at the start up and can act afterwards and also perform a 2nd up-b before going into a dive fall.


    Old:
    Version 0.0 Alpha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhFvr-aG0pY
    Version 0.1 Alpha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjAxkNcaSMA
    Version 0.2 Alpha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Gj0EvveQs
    Version 1.0 Beta https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSgwRWm-Wkw
    Version 2.0 Release http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AXhTJMeqZQ
    Version 2.1 Release: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs3d5ElzWqQ
    Version 2.2 Release: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7nMXPxv4bI
    Version 2.3 Final?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCFk6T9wvpk

    Version 3.0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIbb374g9vY
    Download: http://www.mediafire.com/download/afu6d5cy0wzv4us/Ganondorf v3.0.zip
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
    Gusto, GanonFist, TRJV and 29 others like this.
  2. MVP

    MVP Smash Ace

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    this looks sweet!

    -first
  3. Kally Wally

    Kally Wally Smash Ace

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    Wow, pretty cool stuff for a alpha!

    Question: What kind of character do you envision Swordendorf as? Is he still going to act as a power-based punish character, just with a different way of going about things (ie. trading some power for a disjointed sword), or are you planning on taking his game plan in a new direction? Having a goal in mind for a character is really important for a polished, cohesive design.

    Question 2: Are all of his special moves planned to be the same? Can they even be changed via this taunt-switching method? I don't know much about Brawl hacking.
  4. l3thargy

    l3thargy Smash Journeyman

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    here I came up with a sword and magic based moveset a little earlier in the clone and speculation topic that took elements from the games he was in and also some moves I think would also suit his character, figured you could take some ideas from it if you'd like

  5. Jade_Rock55

    Jade_Rock55 Smash Ace

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    This sounds like it could be fun!
  6. Kati

    Kati Smash Lord

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    Back in the brawl+ days a guy did this, so this goal is entirely plausible. His version only used the sword attacks one gains from picking up an item though, and only the sword taunt was used switching. Good job on the animations!
  7. Shadow Huan

    Shadow Huan Smash Champion

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    oooo this looks very promising! hopefully it doesn't turn out like the Mewtwo project that ended up being disbanded due to the clone engine being completed. good work, I greatly look forwards to a public release!
  8. Mach5Mike

    Mach5Mike Smash Apprentice

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    The ability to switch between the Ganondorf moveset that I wanted in Brawl and the well-designed one by the PMBR with the press of a button? Yes please!
  9. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    At first I wanted to keep it very similar to the current but just with different animations because of balance issues, but now I figure that's what play testers are for. The current direction of the sword mode is that of a sweet spot hitter. Nearly all his sword hits requires a sweet spot to be effective. I also see his sword more of a thrusting weapon than a slashing one compared to Link.

    They are all going to be different or slightly different. All specials are going to be hitting with the sword instead of fist/legs. I'm still up for suggestions for the Neutral-B. I had planed to do a counter attack for that or an air spinning strike.

    @I3thargy
    Yes I like some of your ideas, especial the twilight princess ones.

    Thanks, I make some of them myself.

    Yes, but keep in mind it is not a simple setup. Each move you decide to add takes a fair amount of PSA codes and a LOT of planning to get it to work.

    If you like, you can try out the Alpha version yourself! Download the attached, place it in your hacks where it belongs and it should run. Keep in mind some animations are getting reworked and most are missplaced.

    Progress:
    I'm currently still working on the animations and I am taking suggestions. It's best to work this out first before moving on to the next portion because I don't want to mess up the PSA memory blocks too much. If I figure out a new and better way to input/use codes for this purpose it can probably speed up this process. Something along the line of using flags and pointers instead of straight arguments.

    Attached Files:

    TRJV and l3thargy like this.
  10. Shadow Huan

    Shadow Huan Smash Champion

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    I would look to the "Dark Lord Ganondorf" fight of Twilight Princess for a few move ideas. there is at the very least a smash attack and a special move in there

    you are already using his stab move from there, I would say that the shoulder smash -> sword swing attack and the "Chance" charging animation and the downward swing he does if you don't clash could work.

    the "Chance" attack might be really tricky, although if used it could replace the currently silly looking downb? maybe make it like Ike's side b?

    EDIT: I have downloaded the zip file and will have a look at it a little later, i'll either post again or edit this again, thanks for providing the files :)

    EDIT #2: okay, so you said that you are changing some of the animations, and without knowing what any of them are i'll give you a few things I noticed.

    there is a slight hiccup in the new forward tilt and dsmash animations

    his new up b drifts along the ground horizontally if not done in the air

    after doing the new up b the sword turns purple

    he can't turn around at the beginning of his up b, both grounded and in the air

    you should definitly have Ganondorf's sword sheathing sound effect for the up taunt. it's effect 42 in the sound effects for ganondorf.

    the way he holds the sword in the Flame Choke air attack is badass.

    so far so good, amazing job. once you get the animations smoothed out and perfected the real testing with hitboxes can start :)
  11. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    @Shadow Huan
    Thanks very much. Good idea about the Dash attack and Down-B.


    What was the hiccup, animation itself or the special effects or other?


    Up-B is tricky because you have to do something in the Main PSA for it to function normal. Currently there is nothing in Main for sword mode, but I'll see if it can be helped for now.
  12. Shadow Huan

    Shadow Huan Smash Champion

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    it's the animations themselves. I noticed by going into training mode and slowing it down the 1/4 speed setting to see what the moves looked like slowed down. if you do the same you'll see what I mean

    until you release your next update that's all I think i'll have to say, but I am following this thread so i'll be around

    also, I am slightly torn about totally changing the down B because it might hurt his recovery, although that could be an interesting trade off.

    use sword mode and gain better spacing, zoning and really effective, strong disjoints. use regular and increase the chance for trading, take a hit on reach, but gain a better recovery? if that ends up being the case it will work in the favor of balance imo
  13. 210stuna

    210stuna Smash Lord

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    This is exactly what the PMBR did with Samus and her ability to switch her weapon type with the touch of a taunt button!

    Have you reached the PMBR with suggestions or ideas of adding this to the future builds?
  14. Shadow Huan

    Shadow Huan Smash Champion

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    I'm at casuals right now, and Ganondorf's victory poses with this code are amazingly hilarious. check it
  15. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    No yet. I have just barely started with modding and hacking in general and first time customizing brawl and still new to the smashmods forum. I doubt I can reach any of their ears as of right now. Maybe after a few more progress.

    I'm working up a new animation for the Neutral-B for sword mode. Will be a forward jumping attack like in Twilight Princess. Changing the Down-B and Up-B to act more like Ike's Side-B where it dashes then hits. But unlike Ike's, the attack has a set hit range and with a small sweet spot at the end.

    Yeah I did not swap the animation out on that yet LOL. It's a simple fix, just got to type in a different animation haha. I used the Win1, Win2 and Win3 animations for sword attacks. I had planed to just use the Side Taunt for victory instead.
  16. _Kailex_

    _Kailex_ PMS| Greato Daze

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    Sounds fun, we need more vids
    l3thargy likes this.
  17. UberAndrew

    UberAndrew Smash Cadet

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    Really hoping this is completed! This sounds like an amazing idea that i'd definitely put in my build.

    If the quality is good you should definitely see about the PMBR officially putting it in for 3.1 (You know it's going to happen).
  18. Ares And Enyo

    Ares And Enyo Smash Apprentice

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    I would support this - should be a good way to please both Ganon groups (those who want him the same and those who want a sword).
  19. oksas

    oksas oak-sauce

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    looks really neat mate. I'm sure this is something a lot of people would be interested in. props yo!
  20. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    Made updates on the Animations.

    Added a new Special-B
    Fixed F-Tilt and D-Smash, Thanks to Shadow Huan for testing.

    Making changes to F-air, B-air, Up-B, Down-B/Air. If there are any suggestions fell free to speak.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjAxkNcaSMA
    robosteven, _Kailex_ and Shadow Huan like this.
  21. UberAndrew

    UberAndrew Smash Cadet

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    It really looks super promising. You should show your progress to the PMBR, maybe they could even help you if they like it.
  22. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    I don't know how to get in touch with them yet. I have placed an application as animator a few days ago but I'm not sure how that will work out,
  23. robosteven

    robosteven Smash Journeyman

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    This is a beautiful idea and I really hope the PMBR incorporates this into the game somehow. IMO, Ganon feels...lacking. This would definitely be an interesting twist to his moveset. My only concern would be somehow balancing the sword. Swords are typically fantastic, so giving Ganon the sword would kinda diminish the whole purpose of ever using his regular punch-and-kick stance, so there's gotta be some kind of weakness.

    ...Thinking way too into this though. Fantastic job so far! Keep it up. This is an excellent idea and it'd be awesome if it continues.
  24. Shadow Huan

    Shadow Huan Smash Champion

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    less overall brutal kill power and a nerfed offstage recovery (with a down special that doesn't refresh his double jump?) would probably be the most likely drawbacks. he should probably hit like a slightly stronger Marth in sword mode and like captain Ganondorf otherwise. even with two movesets he will still have bad matchups imo
  25. XalchemistX

    XalchemistX Smash Ace

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    Looks great! Good luck on the project
  26. LeeYawshee

    LeeYawshee Smash Ace

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    I like this idea a lot because it keeps the old Ganondorf for those who like him the way he is (like myself), while giving a new way to play the King of Evil to those who aren't fans of it. Bravo and keep up the great work. I'm rooting for you.
  27. Galaga

    Galaga Smash 3 Dev Team

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    Looks really great so far dude, can't wait to see this completed!
  28. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    Thanks, I'm glad this is something people wouldn't mind having.

    After long hours of digging around I figured how to get the sword trail working. I am now moving into adjusting the hitboxes. I also got more ideas from Twilight Princess and a lot of the normal attacks are swapped around or changed. Will post updates when I get more done.
  29. Steelia

    Steelia Smash Champion

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    Once you get this working, I know I'll definitely be using it. Only thing I know how to hack from SSBB are the textures, but if the files are anything like Melee, being able to edit the timing of sounds/effects should be cake once you figure out the # of frames per move :)
  30. K.Louis

    K.Louis Smash Cadet

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    On the beta you released I noticed that Up B can't be turned around, and when you taunt cancel the sword pull taunt part of the way through the moveset will switch but Ganon won't be holding a sword. Keep up the good work man!
  31. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    Thanks for the feedback, I will get the sword holding error fixed. That release was still just the alpha that shown in the first vid. It has barely anything else other than the sword animations. The beta version won't be for a while, I am structuring the PSA codes much better now so phase two alpha is soon.
  32. robosteven

    robosteven Smash Journeyman

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    yessssssss
  33. Vashimus

    Vashimus Smash Champion

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    I knew I should've kept my mouth shut. lmao.

    Please no. Not that I don't admire the work that he's doing.
  34. \Apples

    \Apples Smash Journeyman

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    This looks fiiiilllthhy. When I sober up, I'mma come back to this and critique this moveset design.
    robosteven likes this.
  35. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    Moving on to next phase of fixing hitboxes and improved animations for Normal attacks. Most of the moves are done, just only two are still getting worked on; the U-Smash and the Dash-A.

    Hitbox, damage and trajectory are still being adjusted. Not all sound and graphical effects are working correctly yet.

    Is this because it might oppose a balance issue or what the reason?

    Please do give feedbacks. :D

    Ver 0.2a
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7Gj0EvveQs
    l3thargy likes this.
  36. Kally Wally

    Kally Wally Smash Ace

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    This... This is coming out really, really smooth compared to the first video. Cool stuff.

    I'm not the one being addressed here, but personally, I just think it would be too much. I'm already on the fence about Samus' ice beam, and that only affects 4 moves. Completely changing the way a character plays, especially with a taunt input, is just too much for the official project IMO. Sheik and Zelda are about as far into the "transforming characters" archetype as we need to go.

    Also, there's always a risk of Swordendorf either overshadowing Punchendorf, or being inferior.
  37. \Apples

    \Apples Smash Journeyman

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    Nahhh man. I think this is a WONDERFUL idea.

    So, that U-air way awesome. You're nailing the style of his moves and you're nailing the animation concepts and you're hitting the frame data pretty close to something that really looks like it feels right.

    So, I'm at work right now. We're super slow and I'm going to edit/add to this as I have time. But I really wanna break down his moveset here move by move, and compare/contrast each move on a 1:1 basis to the original moveset, but also analyzing it as a whole and ensuring that this character is still Ganondorf and contains generally the same strengths and weaknesses. I think the variation the sword should bring to Ganondorf's character should be small things. Not knocking on the PMBR (they obviously do an incredible job and we wouldn't be here if it weren't for them, I'm not talking that down), but one thing that at least in earlier versions seemed to have eluded the design team is that small changes are all that are needed to make these bad characters from Melee good. (Ex: Mewtwo looks hella cool, but I'm concerned he's gonna be way too ridiculous with his new Teleport functionality, DESPITE HOW BADASS IT IS.)

    Anyways... I'm excited to contribute to this. I would love to main Ganon again and play with the sword. I've ALWAYS wanted him to fight with his sword because he was actually supposed to have it in Melee, that's why he had the victory animation with it; but the development team ran out of time so they made him a C.Falcon clone instead to get him in and save on time. So this is actually super exciting to me, even if the PMBR didn't pick this idea up and make it canon.

    The following addresses v0.2
    Jab
    Sword jab is way too strong at the moment. I wish I wasn't at work, I'd totally break damage output down and make some charts and ****. Anyway, default jab starts at 7%. Sword jab currently starts at 12%. You might wanna drop that. This move seems to have speed, range AND damage. Now, I think having all 3 of these fits Ganon's character but at least one of these needs tamed, or all 3 need tamed by a meager amount. Which do we keep? Which do we change?

    Ask yourself these questions now that you have a general moveset fleshed out. What is the design of this moveset? How does it differ from his original moveset and what edge does it offer him as a character besides the sword itself? How is he drawn back?

    The range seems pretty set because of the length of the sword. I think it's a good idea to keep that true because the visual cues will match up naturally with the moves. So if that seems like a fair general rule for his new sword moveset? Where do we go from here? Ganon already has pretty decent range with some of his moves (U-air, F-air, F-tilt, D-tilt), but he sure would like some more. What do we take away? Damage? Speed?

    I think taking away speed makes sense, he's wielding a sword now. Before he was faster because he had just his bare hands he was working with. So, I think increased cooldown on his sword attacks in general is good, but allowing them to link together with other sword strikes is also cool. I LOVE what you've done with his D-smash and F-smash. This is a step in the right direction. I might even like to see a 2-string jab with his sword. Maybe the current sword jab strings into him stepping far forward and poking downward, sword of like his sword D-tilt v0.2, also sword of like Roy's 4th DED angled down. The first hit hits down and away, if they miss the tech, fast fallers like Fox get can get popped up by the second hit. Second hit should be able to be delayed to account for techs in place. I like the idea of his sword attacks sending the opponent down or up. Tech chasing could be really strong with the sword. Like a really oppressive and evil, controlling playstyle that stays all up on your **** with a long ranged sword.

    Maybe the most important thing I have to say at the moment:
    His sword attacks should all be disjointed now too. THAT is cool. In fact, that alone makes this moveset appealing. Increased range and priority, traded at the cost of cooldown. Leaving him overall a little more wide open at times. His moves still mostly come out at about the same speed, so reacting to him is very similar but punishing him is easier in regards to time, but not in regards to distance.

    I'll be back later. I didn't even get through his Jab yet lol.

    Ramble
    Oh, I also love the new U-air and I love the thought behind U-tilt. I like that he's still wide open above him while grounded (only good OOS option is Up+B). We'll have to discuss whether or not he should have a better defensive option with this sword moveset or not. His new U-air OOS might be super good in a different way than his default U-air OOS for defense. Perhaps an U-smash which could function as a defensive option OOS would be really cool. Definitely lots to explore here. I wanna playtest him so bad.

    Things that jump out at me are U-tilt and U-smash. Those are definitely going to be key areas to give attention to. U-tilt currently seems to be niche utility, but that may be a very good thing for the design of this moveset. Consider U-tilts that would hit above him or behind him as well.

    Also, I've considered designs for Ganon which give him super armor and while they're really cool ideas and fit him super well, I don't think they belong on a moveset of his where he fights with a sword unless he had some sort of parry attack. A parry would actually make sense too, in Wind Waker, he would parry Link's attacks with his dual-sword fighting style. I'm not sure whether or not changing his specials is a good idea or not. We may want to leave them exactly as they are.
  38. Ashingda

    Ashingda Smash Apprentice

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    I greatly appreciate your contributions. It had always bothered me that Ganondorf was a clone of C.Falcon and even in brawl was still not much more. This project is still very open to ideas so feel free to voice more ideas or concerns. As for the moveset design I am going for a slower (more lag), but potentially stronger hitter (sweet spots), with greater hit range, and animations more heavily based on the titled game.

    The overall damage values are mostly place holders. While inputing the PSA codes I just quickly inserted a damage value just to get it working. After the overall animations are over, the hitbox damges will be altered and corrected. I agree on the decrease of speed for exchange of the sword range and disjointed hitbox. There was a 2-hit jab slash in Twilight Princess, I might consider that, what do you think?

    The F-Smash and D-Smash took some effort to make so I'm quite glad you like it. The vid didn't show it well but you can delay the 2nd strike of these 2 smashes similar to Link's F-Smash but the window is a bit smaller.

    I have not thought this far yet, because my only test are vs NPCs and this isn't exactly ready for public play testing.

    I shouldn't upload this version at this time because the PSA codes are still a mess! I made a lot of errors and wasted memory address with trial and errors. I would hope to get the alpha sorted out and copy the working codes into a clean beta first before releasing it again. But if you don't mind possible crashes, bugs and glitches I can upload the current version for testing.

    I was thinking the same thing too. It will be for Special-D and would work the same as Marth/Ike and will also use his parry animation similar to Twilight Princess. Big difference is that your counter attack is optional and you can choose to either Attack after parrying or Jump afterwards which if timed correctly can improve edge recovery. And you can only perform one Jump parry per air time. This is only still ideas, I'm not even sure if I can code this as of yet.

    You sir, have great analysis bringing up issues I didn't even intend or realized yet and have greatly improve the progress of this project. Thank you.
    \Apples likes this.
  39. _Kailex_

    _Kailex_ PMS| Greato Daze

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    I think it would be nice if aerial down special would be dark kind of sword dive causing a huge explosion of some sort; maybe its a bit exaggerated
  40. Shadow Huan

    Shadow Huan Smash Champion

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    that video... wow

    you have made so much progress, very impressive :)

    once you have a public release ready, I will gladly playtest it. in fact, it'll be nice to have /apples testing it too, maybe we can get some more people in on it. multiple, well thought out perspectives will be very helpful.

    I don't know about making him stronger than Captain Ganondorf in sword mode though; for balances sake might have to have the two different stances be good at different things/or be better at different matchups. there's a lot to figure out

    I did post something like this last night, but smashboards crashed. and before that my mobile internets wasn't working. but I'm back lol

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