Game and Watch Matchup Export: Meta Knight

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Meta Knight

Matchup: 35:65 (-2)


Basic Info:
Meta Knight is an aggressive character who excels in both the air and on the ground. His transcendent priority gives him a large advantage in the air as well as on the ground. His moves are extremely fast and he has many effective kill moves. That being said, he is floaty and a lightweight. On top of that, he has very slow air acceleration, not that it matters due to his surprisingly long range and his ridiculous speed. This allows him to be juggled fairly easily and killed earlier as well. He has six jumps, two glides, and all of his specials can be used for recovery, effectively giving him the best recovery in the game. Meta Knight lacks a projectile, but due to his ludicrous speed, he does not need one either.

Videos:
Alphicans vs Rain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXW3v10vcFs
UTDZac vs Dphat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=altdmczCZbw
Vinnie vs Anti: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mY_g-vVYLU
Vinnie vs Mew2King: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqmGoa-ts1s#t=09m28s
Vinnie vs Otori: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y88cd_a7PA0


Strategy:​

• Meta Knight's slow falling speed and air acceleration allow him to be juggled by us. Nair combo's can give lots of damage, but due to the speed of his moves, it might be difficult to have long chains. Use Uair to annoy (always good) and keep him stuck in the air, if he tries to glide, hit him with a nair, otherwise keep juggling him as much as possible.
• We can follow him aggressively offstage, which a lot of Meta Knights are not used to, allowing early kills or at least, some extra damage, so be sure to use that when you can.
• UpB can launch MK's nado into the air and leave him in a freefall state. If you get caught inside the nado, Mash UpB to try and launch him, or at least get out of it early. You cannot SDI anything except for the first and last hit of the nado.
• Approaching MK is difficult due to his superior ftilt, dtilt, and his GSL. One commonly used strategy with some success is dashing up and shielding. This allows us to get closer to him a bit more safely.
• MK's utilt beats our dair. We can mix up the fastfalled dair with slowfall dair into a fastfalled on closer to MK, this way he has to be playing the guessing game and not us.
• We shut down his approaches with our dtilt, but he shuts down ours as well with his ftilt. This match seems to be based largely off momentum and keeping the lead. If we can force approach we can shut him down (well, he IS still Meta Knight) quite well with our dtilt
• We can kill him very quickly if we can tech chase him well. A good tech chase off the dthrow can net us a kill as early as 75%.

Stages:
Assuming the stagelist from Unity 2.1
Strikes
1. Final Destination
2. Smashville
3. Yoshi's Island: Brawl
Runner-Up - Castle Siege


Counter Pick
1. Rainbow Cruise
2. Lylat Cruise / Battlefield
Runner-Up - Frigate Orpheon


Ban
1. Final Destination
Runner-Up - Brinstar

​

Meta Knight board's matchup page: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=306382

Anything that you feel would add to the understanding of this matchup, post here. Unless there is a more recent Meta Knight matchup thread, you can post here even a year after the last post.

 

[Sylarius]

I feel like you should add Vinnie vs Mew2King from Cot6, third game of the set, even though he lost it was still a very good game

 

[Deleted member 189823]

MU is apparently 35:65/-2/+2 on MK's favor.

I feel like it needs more details.

I would like a strategy when it comes to facing MK on FD and Smashville. I got 2-stocked yesterday mostly because I accepted the counterpick to sound tough (I mean, he wasn't going to fall for my counterpick, Battlefield). The lack of platforms makes it hard to deal with MK on the ground, especially if said MK doesn't even approach you and waits for you to come.
I've heard of a strategy that consists on throwing egg and bacon (twice) against a pacific character so he can approach you or shield (allowing chances for a grab if the opponent shields o a dash attack if the opponent rolls). I haven't really tried it myself at that moment because I was really nervous and had no confidence on beating my opponent in the first place...but man, Battlefield works wonders for gaw.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I never fight MK on FD

**** is hard.

Platforms are good for both characters, but GW sorta needs them in this matchup. MK is MK regardless so it's the lesser of 2 evils so to speak

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I've seen a lot of G&W success on Rainbow Cruise, is this just a skill gap, or is RC a good stage due to all of the platforms?

Platforms are obviously a must, but what stages are good in particular? I was thinking BF, RC, and possibly Lylat (just the planking there is a bit daunting)

 

[-Ominous-]

RC is a great stage for both characters, I would take any MK there unless he was significantly better than me. BF is always a good stage for G&W. MK is good on it too. I don't really like Lylat...

I've taken some MKs to Brinstar with success, but a lot of people don't like it because he can shark a lot there.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

The deal with RC is, most people ban that **** against MK, but GW players play there a lot and thus feel comfortable taking MK there. It's a character people aren't used to fighting on a stage people aren't too used to fighting on in tournament.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Lylat is alot like Battlefield, though.

 

[Sylarius]

Lylat is not even close to Battlefield.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

The sharking can always be problematic on Brinstar, it just adds even more things that MK can do. I would say the best 2 are RC and BF, and what ruleset are we assuming now that URC has disbanded? Still Unity stagewise?

 

[Gardex]

Lylat is amazing against Metaknight.

Stages I would pick against MK, from best pick to the "worst best" pick: RC, Lylat, BF

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Lylat is not even close to Battlefield.

But the three platforms placed similiarly.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

The similarity in platforms is there, but what differs is the shape of the bottom platform, the tilting, the thinness of the stage (good for any planking like G&W) and iirc the blast lines might be a bit smaller (I think just the ceiling) correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

The blastlines at the sides are probably smaller too. I KO'd a Ganondorf at around 85~% close to the ledge with Wolf's D-Smash once.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I was looking on the stage analysis stage and they seemed pretty similar, but I was in a hurry, you can check that if you want, if not I'll go check later.

"Up tilt beats g&ws dair, ftilt shuts down his Foward approches minus shaky floor, up b beats turtle" from MK boards. DISCUSS

 

[Gardex]

I'm still bothered that you have that "DI up when inside the nado" part. You can't SDI(ty gheb) until the last hit, which means that the nado has already ended, so it's kinda pointless. Just say: "Mash up b, or take it like a man. If the nado isn't controlled well, use any possible situation(getting out before the nado ended) to either get away or challenge the nado"

Never dair a grounded MK. His utilt will make you cry. What I sometimes do is use dair, then slowfall it so it ends just as the MK uses utilt, then i just hit him with another dair as he ends his utilt.

Approaching MK is a pain because he shuts you down with ftilt, up b and dtilt. The dash into shield should be used a lot in this MU, because then you can shield his attempts to stop you, and if you still find yourself in a bad position, up b away from danger. On the flipside of things: You also have a decent amount of stuff you can do to stop MK's approaches. Bair and dtilt are pretty good at stopping his stuff.

RC, Lylat/Battlefield and Frigate are your friends, in that order.
Ban FD. It's a bad stage for both G&W and MK, but in this case you want platforms.
If you like FD, ban Delfino.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggZl4FjQTC4

The ratio IMO? -1 or 40-60

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm still bothered that you have that "DI up when inside the nado" part. You can't DI until the last hit, which means that the nado has already ended, so it's kinda pointless.

Don't confuse SDI with DI. You can DI the tornado but you can't SDI it as only the first and the last hit have any hitlag.

 

[Gardex]

Sorry about that.

But the point is that you're stuck inside that nado if he gets you(unless the MK's control is subpar).

Wow I don't even know anymore, help.

asdfhfds

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You can DI out during the first hit

 

[Gardex]

Yes, I know.

But I was talking about when you're already inside the tornado.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

If someone wants to review over the stage strikes and CP's go ahead. I have the lists extended so that it can be used on stagelists other than Unity.

And with all of his moves beating ours, what makes the matchup 40:60?

 

[Deleted member 189823]

- Our B-Air outranges all of his aerials and even beats his glide attacks.
- Our D-Tilt beats all of his gound approaches.
- Our Up-B can serve a similiar purpose as the Up-Air...when he is close to you with the Tornado, we can leave him in a helpless freefall state.
- Our B-Air (it has to be well-aimed, though), F-Air- D-Air (Right above) and our smashes can break MK's tornado and hurt him out of it.
- We can U-Air preassure. It is more useful than you might think. It may leave him helpless for us to score a Smash attack (and we all know how deadly these are).
- With some tech chasing skill and reads, we are able to get kills as early as 75%.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Alright, so we shut down his approaches, but he shuts down ours as well. We can kill him very quickly if we can tech chase him well. This match seems to be based largely off momentum and keeping the lead. If we can force approach we can shut him down (well, he IS still Meta Knight)

 

[-LzR-]

- Our B-Air outranges all of his aerials and even beats his glide attacks.
- Our D-Tilt beats all of his gound approaches.
- Our Up-B can serve a similiar purpose as the Up-Air...when he is close to you with the Tornado, we can leave him in a helpless freefall state.
- Our B-Air (it has to be well-aimed, though), F-Air- D-Air (Right above) and our smashes can break MK's tornado and hurt him out of it.
- We can U-Air preassure. It is more useful than you might think. It may leave him helpless for us to score a Smash attack (and we all know how deadly these are).
- With some tech chasing skill and reads, we are able to get kills as early as 75%.

Like... None of that is actually true?

 

[SFA Smiley]

- Our B-Air outranges all of his aerials and even beats his glide attacks.
- Our D-Tilt beats all of his gound approaches.
- Our Up-B can serve a similiar purpose as the Up-Air...when he is close to you with the Tornado, we can leave him in a helpless freefall state.
- Our B-Air (it has to be well-aimed, though), F-Air- D-Air (Right above) and our smashes can break MK's tornado and hurt him out of it.
- We can U-Air preassure. It is more useful than you might think. It may leave him helpless for us to score a Smash attack (and we all know how deadly these are).
- With some tech chasing skill and reads, we are able to get kills as early as 75%.

what? No...

Bair i'm quite positive does not beat Fair OR Bair.
second thing is true yeah
Anything can beat Nado if it's touching the ground, dash attack is good for this
uair stuff is obvious
and the last is true, yeah

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I was pretty sure it outranges all of his aerials, though reguarding priority...yeah.

 

[Gardex]

When it comes to aerials, it's always a question about positioning, because it's always a battle of which guy's hitbox that can hit the other guy's hurtbox first.

So while Metaknight's fair may or may not(i really don't know which one wins this one) beat G&W's bair when they're both perfectly aligned horizontally, G&W's bair may still beat MK's fair if he's slightly above MK and so on.

When range is so even in size, it really becomes more of a question about spacing and timing and all that stuff.
G&W has superior mobility(in the air), MK has superior speed(on his aerials), bla bla bla

 

[Deleted member 189823]

So yeah the MU isn't THAT bad.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Alright, so 40:60 is a pretty good ratio?

Also, what would be a good runner up stage strike? I was thinking castle siege, but that might just be my despise for that stage coming out.

 

[-Ominous-]

Alright, so 40:60 is a pretty good ratio?

Also, what would be a good runner up stage strike? I was thinking castle siege, but that might just be my despise for that stage coming out.

You might want to put it -1 or whatever the equivalent of 40:60 is. Since they are now doing matchups that way.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I would put it as -2, whatever that means. 35:65 maybe.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

So it's somewhere between 40:60 and 35:65, I would lean more to the 35:65 side though

and last stage strike?

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Play against MK on your own personal best stages. I've always been a fan of just going to BF or SV, the only things I recommend striking are Lylat and FD. For counterpicks it's really dependent on your personal preferences, although I think MK might be better than us on Brinstar and as such we should ban it in hopes of going to RC. Assuming you win game 1, of course.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Lylat was agreed to be better for GnW than most, what's your reason for striking it?

Banning Brinstar in hope of going to RC would work on a MK who doesn't know that he ***** GnW on FD/SV, but I think getting rid of our disastrous stages is more important than gambling for an easier game.

Personal preference > these picks anyways, this is just saying where we feel GnW does best overall (excluding preferences)

I was thinking Castle Siege, but PS1 might be just as bad. (in terms of strikes, not bans)

 

[Dexident]

I personally do much better against any character on FD then any other stage, but that's just my personal favorite. I need to practice more with BF I guess... To be honest I can't stand the platforms! I know I know... kill me.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

That's how I used to be with Lylat Cruise, then I played there for every match and I grew to like it as a stage. You just have to get used to it.

 

[-Ominous-]

MK doesn't like FD...and he doesn't destroy us on smashville... An MK main would probably go RC against anyone since it's a great stage for him. So banning brinstar is a good idea if you want to go there...

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

The difference between ours and MK's success on FD/SV is more than on RC. But if Brinstar is a good ban, I'll put it above FD and take our Delphino.

 

[-LzR-]

FD is amazing for MK in this MU. You should avoid it if possible. Try to make them scared of your pocket Falco or something if you have one, but you guys lose pretty badly on FD.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

So the two MK mains on here both say FD is a stage to avoid, number one ban for sure.

Brinstar #2?

And a runner up strike (PS1 or CS)