Final Destination: Stage Research

[ParanoidDrone]

What better stage to cover last than Final Destination? It seems shockingly appropriate to me, which is why I saved it for the end.

Previously Covered
PAC-LAND
75M
Skyworld
Flat Zone X
The Great Cave Offensive
Onett
Palutena's Temple
Yoshi's Island
Wily Castle
Gaur Plain
Pyrosphere
Temple
Mario Circuit (Brawl)
Boxing Ring
Port Town Aero Dive
Bridge of Eldin
Pilotwings
Jungle Hijinxs
Wrecking Crew
Halberd
Pokemon Stadium 2
Big Battlefield
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege
Town & City
Duck Hunt
Delfino Plaza
Kalos Pokemon League
Mario Galaxy
Coliseum
Gamer
Wii Fit Studio
Kongo Jungle 64
Windy Hill Zone
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Orbital Gate Assault
Woolly World
Skyloft
Garden of Hope
Mushroom Kingdom U
Wuhu Island
Mario Circuit

Layout
Final Destination is a completely flat stage. There are no platforms, no moving parts, no stage hazards, no walkoffs, no water, nothing.

Players 1 and 2 start near the ledges while Players 3 and 4 start closer to the middle. The Omega form is exactly the same. In other news, Final Destination has an Omega form.

Fox only. No items. Final Destination.

Ω Forms
Every single stage in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U has an Omega form. Omega form stages are perfectly flat and lack hazards of any sort, just like Final Destination, and are all almost exactly the same size and have almost exactly the same distance to the blast zones. (The outliers are still close enough to require only 1% more or less for a kill, at most.) The largest difference between the Omega forms is the shape of the underside and the resulting effect on recoveries.

Below in the spoiler tag is a picture of every Omega form in the game, with short notes on any details that may not be obvious. In cases where what you see is what you get with no unexpected features, the Notes section will simply say "N/A".

Spoiler: Ω Form Stages

Name|Picture|Notes
Battlefield Ω|

|Underside of stage has asymmetrical collision.
Big Battlefield Ω|

|Identical to Battlefield Ω.
Final Destination Ω|

|Identical to Final Destination.
Mushroom Kingdom U Ω|

|Grass increases traction and decreases pivot distance. Walls extend all the way down, not clearly visible in picture.
Mario Galaxy Ω|

|Grass increases traction and decreases pivot distance. Pathway in middle does not count as grass. Cannot wall jump on sides. Technically floats, but the gap between the bottom and the blast zone is minuscule.
Delfino Plaza Ω|

|N/A
Mario Circuit Ω|

|Underside near ledge still lets players recover.
Mario Circuit (Brawl) Ω|

|Completely open underneath, despite appearances.
Luigi's Mansion Ω|

|N/A
Jungle Hijinxs Ω|

|N/A
Kongo Jungle 64 Ω|

|N/A
Skyloft Ω|

|N/A
Bridge of Eldin Ω|

|Curves on side still let players recover.
Temple Ω|

|N/A
Pyrosphere Ω|

|Pillar underneath stage, not clearly visible in screenshot.
Norfair Ω|

|Underside near ledge still lets players recover.
Port Town Aero Dive Ω|

|Underside near ledge still lets players recover.
Woolly World Ω|

|Stage squish where players stand has no known effect.
Yoshi's Island Ω|

|Grass increases traction and reduces pivot distance.
The Great Cave Offensive Ω|

|Grass increases traction and reduces pivot distance. Only left half of stage counts as grass. Technically floats, but the gap between the bottom and the blast zone is minuscule.
Halberd Ω|

|Underside near ledge still lets players recover.
Orbital Gate Assault Ω|

|N/A
Lylat Cruise Ω|

|Underside near ledge still lets players recover. (1.0.6 Update)
Kalos Pokemon League Ω|

| Cannot wall jump on sides. Can wall jump on sides as of 1.1.3.
Pokemon Stadium 2 Ω|

|Pillar underneath stage, not clearly visible in screenshot. Underside near ledge still lets players recover.
Onett Ω|

|N/A
Coliseum Ω|

|N/A
Castle Siege Ω|

|N/A
Flat Zone X Ω|

|Characters and other entities are flattened into 2D projections. Underside near ledge still lets players recover.
Palutena's Temple Ω|

|Underside near ledge still lets players recover.
Skyworld Ω|

|Underside near ledge still lets players recover.
Gamer Ω|

|N/A
Garden of Hope Ω|

|N/A
Town & City Ω|

|N/A
Smashville Ω|

|N/A
Wii Fit Studio Ω|

|N/A
Boxing Ring Ω|

|N/A
Gaur Plain Ω|

|Pillar underneath stage, not clearly visible in screenshot. Underside of stage still lets players recover.
Duck Hunt Ω|

|Characters and other entities are flattened into 2D projections.
75M Ω|

|N/A
Wrecking Crew Ω|

|N/A
Pilotwings Ω|

|N/A
Wuhu Island Ω|

|N/A
Windy Hill Zone Ω|

|Grass increases traction and reduces pivot distance.
Wily Castle Ω|

|N/A
PAC-LAND Ω|

|Characters and other entities are flattened into 2D projections. Cannot wall jump on sides.
Dream Land (64) Ω|

|Floats over a void, bottom of stage not visible in screenshot. Preliminary data suggests the 3DS version has smaller blast zones than other Ω stages, including Final Destination.
Suzaku Castle Ω|

|Walls continue all the way down, not clearly visible in screenshot. Preliminary data suggests the 3DS version has smaller blast zones than other Ω stages, including Final Destination.
Miiverse Ω|

|N/A
Peach's Castle (64) Ω|

|Floats over a void, bottom of stage not visible in screenshot.
Hyrule Castle (64) Ω|

|N/A
Super Mario Maker Ω|

|Shifts between Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, and New Super Mario Bros U skins like the normal stage. Can wall jump on sides.
Pirate Ship Ω|

|Floats over a void, pillar is in background.
Midgar Ω|

|Floats over a void, bottom of stage not visible in screenshot. Underside of stage has asymmetrical collision. Stage itself is identical to the base of the normal Midgar stage.
Umbra Clock Tower Ω|

|N/A

Summary

• Fox only. No items. Final Destination.
• Omega forms mimic the flatness, size, and blast zones perfectly or near-perfectly, but under-stage shape varies.
• Other small details also differentiate various Omega forms, see above for details.

 

[Dagon97]

Should the grass that increases traction on certain Omega be banned or bean option as a separate counter-pick?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Should the grass that increases traction on certain Omega be banned or bean option as a separate counter-pick?

I'm of the opinion that while it's an interesting tidbit to know, it's not a big enough change to be worth splitting the Omegas into two categories that get treated differently. Ditto for other variances like walled vs. floating, generous vs. strict ledges, and so forth.

 

[thehard]

Congrats on completing all the stage research threads! (Until Miiverse + possible DLC, of course! )

These should go on the wiki.

 

[Pazx]

Well done Drone, now go take a breather because you have done a huge amount of work.

 

[Ansou]

Nice work! You should have had instead of and in the screenshots, though.

 

[LancerStaff]

It's worth noting the "slidey" areas underneath the Omegas are mostly defined by the appearance, even in unusual situations. Halberd's outer thrusters will let you slide but not the inner, for example. And then Norfair's slidey zone extends to the metal strips to the left and right of the green gyro thing.

And Lylat has absolutely no slidey zone, meaning recovery with characters like Pit become about ten times harder then it needs to.

 

[The_Altrox]

Question for this series in general: Will you guys be developing a list of which characters thrive or struggle on any given stage (or at least the competitive ones)? Obviously, personal preference exists as well, but it would be nice to know which stages a character generally likes or dislikes, just for understanding the match-up and being able to counterpick well.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Question for this series in general: Will you guys be developing a list of which characters thrive or struggle on any given stage (or at least the competitive ones)? Obviously, personal preference exists as well, but it would be nice to know which stages a character generally likes or dislikes, just for understanding the match-up and being able to counterpick well.

I have no such plans, mostly because that seems like a job for the character-specific boards more than anything else.

 

[The_Altrox]

I have no such plans, mostly because that seems like a job for the character-specific boards more than anything else.

Fair enough. I was just hoping that I could possibly find it in one place on a roster of 51 (soon to be 52) for simplicity's sake.

 

[DavemanCozy]

You should mention that Lylat Cruise Ω has the same nasty ledges as the original stage.

Boxing Ring Ω has an odd camera. If a player is hanging from the ledge, you won't be able to see the person onstage if they're near the ledge because the stage's square size will cover the view. Castle Siege Ω is similar when offstage, sometimes a part of the castle will cover the players when on the right of the stage.

There are other minor oddities here and there with several other omegas as well.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

What's the consensus on the flash during the background transformation? Is it too much of an issue and would a different omega work better for starters?

Xanadu was using Palutena's Temple Omega, not sure if they still are, but the OCD in me wants to use Orbital Gate Assault Omega so we have balance between Star Fox and Animal Crossing in a potential 5 starter list.

 

[clydeaker]

I found a mistake, the pillar underneath Gaur Plain Ω is part of the background and can be passed through. It is not solid

Also will you please cover the Wii U 8-Player Smash upscaled omega stages and 3DS omega stages?

Edit: I posted my own 3DS omega stage data here: http://smashboards.com/threads/omega-3ds-stages-catagories-and-blueprints-data.405514/.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Updated the OP with the Omega forms of Dream Land (64), Suzaku Castle, and Miiverse. Nothing unexpected, they're all still Omega forms after all, but good for completion's sake.

I found a mistake, the pillar underneath Gaur Plain Ω is part of the background and can be passed through. It is not solid

Also will you please cover the Wii U 8-Player Smash upscaled omega stages and 3DS omega stages?

Edit: I posted my own 3DS omega stage data here: http://smashboards.com/threads/omega-3ds-stages-catagories-and-blueprints-data.405514/.

I double checked when testing the DLC stages and Gaur Plain Omega on the Wii U form has a solid pillar that cannot be passed through. The 3DS version may be different. At this time I have no plans to go over 8P Smash stuff.

 

[LawofDeath]

So how's battlefield blast zone's compared to the main platform in Battlefield? Are they the exact same?

 

[clydeaker]

I double checked when testing the DLC stages and Gaur Plain Omega on the Wii U form has a solid pillar that cannot be passed through. The 3DS version may be different. At this time I have no plans to go over 8P Smash stuff.

I checked in both the Wii U and 3DS version and found the omega versions of Gaur Plain are in fact different. On Smash Wii U there's a solid pillar underneath and in Smash 3DS the Pillar is part of the background and can be passed through. I guess we were both right.

I wish you would at least go over some of the differences between the stages in 8-Player Smash and normal Smash. I'm not saying you should make a thread for each individual 8-Player Smash stage. All I'm asking is if you would make one thread talking about some of the changes, such as:
- What stages are and aren't playable in 8-Player Smash.
- The omega stages are amplified versions of their counterparts.
- Pokemon stadium 2 doesn't have any stage transitions.
- Some stages like Gaur Plains, Wily Castle, and Pyrosphere don't have stage bosses
- Some stages background elements are removed or altered.
- Big battlefield was made specifically for 8-Player Smash.

You don't need to go extremely in-depth, just as long as you point out some of the more obvious changes I'll be glad.

 

[Kofu]

I found an oddity with the 3DS versions of Omega Suzaku Castle and Dream Land 64: they have smaller blast zones than other Omegas (including FD).

I was checking to see if Mario's DThrow was changed (it doesn't seem to be) but initially I was thrown off because I was doing my testing on DL64 and it was killing about 15% earlier. I then checked his FThrow and it was killing earlier, too. At first I thought that the 3DS blastzones were generally changed but going back to check on Final Destination and Omega Flat Zone 2 my original numbers matched. I suspect their blaszones are identical to the Wii U version but it's late and I'm too lazy to check. For reference:

• 3DS FD: Mario's DThrow kills himself at 325%, FThrow at 294%.
• 3DS Omega Suzaku Castle/Dream Land 64: DThrow kills at 311% and FThrow at 277%.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Updated with Peach's Castle (64) and Hyrule Castle (64).

 

[2ndComing]

Heres the data for Final D
Its flat
And nothing good can happen on it because you're playing smash 4

sssh grown-ups are talking

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I asked this on the omega stage thread but haven't gotten a response: one of Xanadu's rulings says omega stages are a replacement for rd except for pyrosphere omega. What's different about that one?

 

[LancerStaff]

I asked this on the omega stage thread but haven't gotten a response: one of Xanadu's rulings says omega stages are a replacement for rd except for pyrosphere omega. What's different about that one?

Not much from what I remember... Dunno, there's harder stages to recover on so I don't think it's that.

I found an oddity with the 3DS versions of Omega Suzaku Castle and Dream Land 64: they have smaller blast zones than other Omegas (including FD).

I was checking to see if Mario's DThrow was changed (it doesn't seem to be) but initially I was thrown off because I was doing my testing on DL64 and it was killing about 15% earlier. I then checked his FThrow and it was killing earlier, too. At first I thought that the 3DS blastzones were generally changed but going back to check on Final Destination and Omega Flat Zone 2 my original numbers matched. I suspect their blaszones are identical to the Wii U version but it's late and I'm too lazy to check. For reference:

• 3DS FD: Mario's DThrow kills himself at 325%, FThrow at 294%.
• 3DS Omega Suzaku Castle/Dream Land 64: DThrow kills at 311% and FThrow at 277%.

Thought I'd mention that all the downloadable stages on 3DS have Wii U sized Blastzones, including Duck Hunt. Pretty handy for testing.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I asked this on the omega stage thread but haven't gotten a response: one of Xanadu's rulings says omega stages are a replacement for rd except for pyrosphere omega. What's different about that one?

Best guess is the pillar in the middle, but Pokemon Stadium has that too so IDK. Maybe someone at Xanadu hates awesome Metroid music?

 

[Masonomace]

This is a petty reason to think, but based off the tactics I've witnessed, a Villager could drift towards the inside area against Omega Pyrosphere & just Lloyd Rocket spawn stall in a way that Lloyd repeatedly gets blown up & keeps Villager afloat almost indefinitely for a long period of time.

If it was a character MU that simply didn't favor you trying to combat Villager doing this to you, then you'd kinda have no choice & accept it? Idk either just spitballing here.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

This is a petty reason to think, but based off the tactics I've witnessed, a Villager could drift towards the inside area against Omega Pyrosphere & just Lloyd Rocket spawn stall in a way that Lloyd repeatedly gets blown up & keeps Villager afloat almost indefinitely for a long period of time.

If it was a character MU that simply didn't favor you trying to combat Villager doing this to you, then you'd kinda have no choice & accept it? Idk either just spitballing here.

Not sure how this is meaningfully different from Villager doing the same on a normal walled Omega like Wii Fit Studio. Also Bridge of Eldin and Pokemon Stadium 2 feature similar geometry.

 

[Masonomace]

Not sure how this is meaningfully different from Villager doing the same on a normal walled Omega like Wii Fit Studio. Also Bridge of Eldin and Pokemon Stadium 2 feature similar geometry.

Exactly. I had other omega stage layouts in mind while typing my post which is why I knew it was a petty reason. At least with walled Omegas you only have to fall straight down & challenge it, whereas stages with the mentioned stage layout similar to Pyrosphere require more commitment.

Anyway, I'm also curious of why Xanadu would treat Omega Pyrosphere differently.

 

[Pixel_]

Was this patched? I think you should put it in: https://youtu.be/RcWTSbCsN0o

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Was this patched? I think you should put it in: https://youtu.be/RcWTSbCsN0o

I was under the impression that it was patched. FWIW I tried it myself when I first learned about it but I'm pants as Pikachu and can't do QAC with anything resembling consistency on Battlefield, so figuring out if it was real on UCT Omega was out of the question.

Does Esam frequent Smashboards? What's his name here for tagging?

 

[Pixel_]

Looks like this is it but his Last Seen is in 2015: http://smashboards.com/members/fbc-esam.92614/

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Looks like this is it but his Last Seen is in 2015: http://smashboards.com/members/fbc-esam.92614/

Well, let's try it.

@[FBC] ESAM care to help the cause of STAGE SCIENCE?

EDIT: And the tag didn't work. Bugger.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I believe it was patched in 1.1.5. I had a friend who abused it with 1.1.4 at glitch and I think she told me she couldn't do it anymore