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falcon compendium / Q&A thread

Hax

Smash Champion
Joined
May 8, 2007
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2,552
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20XX
discrete stuff that i think is either critical to playing falcon at top level right now or will be in the future. will be updated occasionally

instant uair
solves falcon's biggest problem which is the lack of an aerial that comes out instantaneously (while he is rising during his jump) while having decent knockback. good for poking against falco, sheik, marth, peach, falcon, and fox (very difficult to land on fox, though). good for extending combos. good for denying certain aerials (beats spacies nairs if you hit at a very specific angle/frame!)

doublejump nair
your best option for when they miss a tech on a platform and you aren't in position for a stomp (or, you aren't in position to follow up with anything after you stomp them). goes into a knee at mid-high % in this case

also really good to use after a shffl'd nair if they DI/SDI up. doublejump so that you're exactly horizontal to them and nair them again. this is better than uairing them, which most people think is falcon's only option if they're at that height that isn't as close to the ground as falcon's shorthop while still being slightly lower than his fullhop.

pivot grab
the best way to abuse falcon's ridiculously fast foxtrot (the initial burst a character makes upon dashing -- falcon's is the fastest in the game). great for dancing around them when you think they're going to whiff something that only hits in front of them. don't use this against fox or falco because shine is broken and will hit in back of them even when you correctly read that they're trying to hit what's in front of them. similarly, watch out for nairs/other aerials that have hitboxes on the character's back. i.e., pivot grabbing is better vs a sheik that tends to fair when she's suspended in the air rather than one who nairs.

kneegrabbing
a while ago M2K informed me that if you knee someone's shield as low to the ground as possible, Falcon has +2 frame advantage (with the L-cancel lag factored in). this means that your grab beats theirs if they try to shieldgrab you (which they will do a LOT given how shieldgrabable this looks). i haven't tested this much yet but i definitely will in the future

180 degree ledgehop wavelands/180 degree wavelands onto platforms
most characters safely ledgehop so that they're elevated a bit higher than the stage, then airdodge diagonally down to waveland. because of falcon's ball-shaped 2nd jump, its really easy to get the best waveland possible by airdodging 180 degrees horizontally. same goes for wavelanding onto platforms

spaced nairs/uairs vs crouchcancellers
CC'ing ***** falcon harder than any character because he has no fast moves that also have enough hitstun to give you frame advantage vs the CC'er. unless you hit them with a stomp or knee, they can hit you before you can combo them into anything. grabbing obviously beats CC'ing, but in falcon's case it is extremely obvious that he's going to grab if he dashes up to them because he has no other options to choose from. for these reasons i try to beat CC'ers by poking them with spaced nairs/uairs to make them leave their CC. stomp and knee are usually reacted to and punished in today's metagame which makes falcon's anti-CC game really weak. you shouldn't try to beat someone who's crouching; you should be giving them reasons to leave their crouch

juggling
with falcon you should seek to carry your opponent as [horizontally] far across the stage as you can during a combo. the reason a lot of people end their falcon combos prematurely is because they don't properly give themselves the frame advantage necessary to continue. what i mean is, you should be hitting them with your aerials (usually uairs) as close to the ground as possible as to give yourself as much time as possible to hit them with another aerial. take landing uair -> uair -> knee on a fox at ~60% for example (assume he DI's in because this combo is impossible if he DI's out). after the first uair, you shorthop towards fox as fast as possible to land the second uair. the mistakes lots of falcons make at this point are A. uairing fox before they reach the peak of their jump and/or B. not fastfalling

these are both counterproductive to juggling because:
-if you don't fastfall, you have about 10 frames before falcon reaches the floor. this is far too long and the knee afterwards won't connect
-you cannot fastfall before the peak of your jump

the lesson to be learned is that you must uair during the 2nd half of your jump, and you must fastfall it/go into your next attack as fast as possible. falcon has TIGHT links that you can't otherwise land because of how fast people wiggle out these days. when i uair during combos, you hardly see falcon's legs come out sometimes because of how close to the ground i use them.

fall off the ledge -> bair/uair
falcon can fall off the ledge, bair or uair to edgeguard, then 2nd jump -> up-b and make it back to the ledge. good for edgeguarding people at certain positions below you, but you risk your stock in attempting it

example:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHkT8T-jJjo#t=01m43s

fulljumping -> wavelanding down to immediately stand on platforms
this opens your techchasing options up by a lot; it's a lot better than stomping/uairing a platform in a lot of situations. you can chain so many techchase grabs when you learn to do this to maneuver platforms fast enough. it's not just for regrabbing, either; you can mindgame people into even better stuff after you land on the same platform as them (you'll almost always have a mental advantage going into it because of how much it makes people flinch)

more to come
 

Citizen Snips

Smash Journeyman
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Aug 9, 2010
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Yardley PA
****ing knew it


Also, I love nair on plats, but should I time it so that I come down on them or hit them with the first hit on the rise? I can't figure out which is better
 

Hax

Smash Champion
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May 8, 2007
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****ing knew it


Also, I love nair on plats, but should I time it so that I come down on them or hit them with the first hit on the rise? I can't figure out which is better
first hit on the rise, second hit while falling (fastfall inbetween the two hits). the first hit is to prevent them from rolling/getting up; it has jab-like properties. sometimes it'll pick them up off the platform but then they'll go right into the second hit. other times they'll still be on the platform; you're able to tell because the green stuff that appears when someone misses a tech will show up. still, they'll go into the second hit. i'd imagine that when the green stuff shows up they're able to SDI/tech it somehow, but surely that would take practice/matchup knowledge that nobody seems to have at the moment.
 

Citizen Snips

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Aight, cool. If and when you update this, it would be really awesome if you did some stuff on edgeguarding. You and S2J seem to be really on point with your edgeguards, and it's really tough to do.
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
what is this smoking thing everyone is talking about...?

is this going to be hax's thread similar to s2j's thread?

hax what do you think you could've done different vs javi? Play more defensively with bairs and dash dance more perhaps?
 

JonnyW

Smash Ace
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Feb 7, 2011
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717
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Portland OR
You can instant u-air fox, you just got to be EXTREMELY fast. I tried it on 2/3 speed in training mode and you can get him.
 

Citizen Snips

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You can instant u-air fox, you just got to be EXTREMELY fast. I tried it on 2/3 speed in training mode and you can get him.
You can get Falco and Fox on a missed tech with it if you really want to. I'm still adamant that c-stick will always take too long, so I use z and analog, but most people apparently use A.

But yeah man, getting your early uairs down (Lol) will make your Falcon look legit.
 

Hax

Smash Champion
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oops @ fast uairs. they do work on fox they're just extremely hard
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
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May 26, 2006
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He means perfect wavelands

Fast Uairs aren't that hard to do, doing them at the right spacing / timing is a good bit harder because if you miss your hitbox is waaay behind you for the rest of the move

I used to lose DJ Nair but when you kick their missed tech and they drift away in the floaty animation it sucks

As such I've started doing early stomps and following the roll, coverage might be a little worse (but it doesn't feel that way on small platforms at all) but the reward is either they die or eat a big combo / get sent offstage (and then die)
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
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Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
i actually find falcons wavelands to be ****ty compared to say marths or ganons. the only good wavelands he has are the auto wavelands from doublejump or full back jump or run off the edge and dj back on YS wavelands...
 

General Heinz

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His wavedash is short compared to Marth's, but his perfect waveland isn't that short imo. Even on stages without the YS slant, like FD.
 

Citizen Snips

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i actually find falcons wavelands to be ****ty compared to say marths or ganons. the only good wavelands he has are the auto wavelands from doublejump or full back jump or run off the edge and dj back on YS wavelands...
I disagree with this. Falcon can fully waveland across Dreamland platforms and come off with an aerial. Watch Jeapie. He uses them a LOT
 

Hax

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i never said his wavedash was good, its just really easy to do 180 degree ones compared to other characters cause of his ball-shaped 2nd jump
 

S l o X

Smash Champion
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bridgeport, ct
hax i definitely think you should add the darkrain. it's basically essential and i use it in any matchup that matters.
 

S l o X

Smash Champion
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oh. maybe i'm wrong but i'm referring to when a character (say fox) comes in with a nair and falcon dashes slightly out of range of the nair and dairs.
 

stopNstart

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 12, 2010
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how do you use falcon's wavedash effectively combined with his dd-ing? i feel when i use wavedash to space sometimes it works better than just massively dd-ing everywhere
 

Mr Postman

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Oregon Mountains
I barely Dashdance but I wavedash a lot. It helps me space better, but it makes it a bit harder to react to techs and other things. I think it's good to have a mix of the two.

also, falcon's perfect wavedash is really good, imo
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
walking is highly underrated
hmm.. i dont actually agree with this... if i need to move a short distance I'd surely wavedash
maybe in some situations? I dunno I mostly only walk as mindgames and when i throw out random smashes
 
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