Did Pokemon get a middle finger this time around?

[Overtaken]

I know, I know, "what is he complaining about, Pokemon got a newcomer!" But hear me out.

Mario (series) got two new comers and an unprecedented revived vet, Dr.Clonio. KI got two newcomers, both from Sakurai's little baby child. Neither series lost anyone, just a +3 and +2 gain respectively. Pokemon, flagship series in popularity and sales behind really only the Mario franchise (which has immense representation when you include sub-franchises). Fire Emblem, I'm told at least, is very popular in Japan. More popular than Pokemon is in Japan, however (much less the rest of the world)? I doubt it, yet FE got both vets and 2 newcomers, and what did Pokemon get? 2 cuts, 1 newcomer and denial of the single most requested character for smash? I mean, Greninja is great, no complaints, but just because it could have been worse doesn't mean this is appropriate, surely? You could say SF and Mother got screwed over in the same way, and I think you would be right, but are either of them as important as Pokemon? How could he have done so little considering 3 core series games had been released between Brawl and SSB4, with a major remake mirroring its development on top of that?

 

[Xzsmmc]

Not as bad as Starfox and DK.

Starfox got a new song and lost a character.
DK (a popular series that recently got a huge revival) got two Smash Run enemies, and a new song.

Pokemon at least got three new stages, a newcomer, and several new PokeBall Pokemon.

 

[Overtaken]

Not as bad as Starfox and DK.

Starfox got literally nothing, and lost a character.
DK (a popular series that recently got a huge revival) got two Smash Run enemies, and a new song.

Pokemon at least got three new stages, a newcomer, and several new PokeBall Pokemon.

I don't disagree, per se. But consider how Pokemon is probably more important, more popular, and more relevant than Mother, DK and SF are combined, or at least close to it. Pokemon has nearly released more games just since Brawl than any of those series has in its entire catalog. Believe me, I'm not saying the treatment those series got were right either, I just mean to say if nothing else, Pokemon's may have been the most egregious.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I don't disagree, per se. But consider how Pokemon is probably more important, more popular, and more relevant than Mother, DK and SF are combined, or at least close to it. Pokemon has nearly released more games just since Brawl than any of those series has in its entire catalog. Believe me, I'm not saying the treatment those series got were right either, I just mean to say if nothing else, Pokemon's may have been the most egregious.

Pokemon is huge no doubt, but I hardly think it got shafted at all. I'm upset about Mewtwo, but Pokemon still has a lot of representation. All in all, it's still being represented arguably better than in Brawl. Actual locations for stages instead of just Pokemon Stadiums or PokeFloats for one thing, very few PokeBall Pokemon gone, and more added. Pokemon Trainer was a regrettable loss to the 'no transformations' rule, but Pokemon still received a newcomer as pseudo compensation.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Yes, amongst other series.
Mewtwo SHOULD of been in the game, and they even teased him with Greninja. Huge jerk move on their part, imo.

 

[Overtaken]

Pokemon is huge no doubt, but I hardly think it got shafted at all. I'm upset about Mewtwo, but Pokemon still has a lot of representation. All in all, it's still being represented arguably better than in Brawl. Actual locations for stages instead of just Pokemon Stadiums or PokeFloats for one thing, very few PokeBall Pokemon gone, and more added. Pokemon Trainer was a regrettable loss to the 'no transformations' rule, but Pokemon still received a newcomer as pseudo compensation.

I don't think it's unfair to treat PT's demise as the loss of 2 characters. But even if we treat Squirtle and Ivy as one loss, it just means the series breaks even with it's representation. For Mario, FE, and KI to all expand by 2 or more total, with no cuts nor heavily requested additions, and for Pokemon to 'break even' at best, if not lose one total, and have a highly requested character denied, that doesn't seem wrong to you? I mean the two new stages are nice too, don't get me wrong, but I think at least 85-90% of a series representation, in terms of importance, is the playable roster in a game like Smash.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I don't think it's unfair to treat PT's demise as the loss of 2 characters. But even if we treat Squirtle and Ivy as one loss, it just means the series breaks even with it's representation. For Mario, FE, and KI to all expand by 2 or more total, with no cuts nor heavily requested additions, and for Pokemon to 'break even' at best, if not lose one total, and have a highly requested character denied, that doesn't seem wrong to you? I mean the two new stages are nice too, don't get me wrong, but I think at least 85-90% of a series representation, in terms of importance, is the playable roster in a game like Smash.

Of course I don't think it's right. But think about it. From Brawl, literally all Pokemon lost was PT. While a character cut really hurts, Pokemon still has plenty of PokeBalls and stages, as well as Smash Run enemies.

I'm disappointed about no Mewtwo as well, but that doesn't make or break Pokemon's representation. Could it have used another character? Sure. Is it crippled from not getting one? No.

If you compare Pokemon to Mario or Kid Icarus, you could say the get screwed. But so did literally every other series compared to them.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Greninja is quality over quantity

 

[Overtaken]

Greninja is quality over quantity

That's true, but with a title like this, is it wrong to expect both quality and quantity to some degree?

 

[fogbadge]

not at all

 

[MagnesD3]

Not as bad as Star Fox, Donkey Kong and Metroid. Bad enough though.

 

[Storm Eagle]

Star Fox lost a rep, even though they are making a new game for it. And don't even get me started on Donkey Kong.

 

[KingBroly]

Pokemon got a new Rep. It also got a lot of stages, and a lot more Pokeballs. How is that a middle finger?

The real loser in this Smash was Metroid. A BIG Middle Finger over Ridley for a year. 1 new stage, no new music, a couple of nice AT's though.

Star Fox lost Wolf but didn't really gain anything, but there hasn't been a new Star Fox game in that timeframe (aside from the remake).

DK got Kremlings in Smash Run...I guess that was it. It didn't really lose anything though.

 

[FangedSniper]

I think Pikmin got the shortest end of the stick too. I mean you can make Dark Pit a clone but not Alph? What gives?

 

[TempahRelapse]

I don't disagree, per se. But consider how Pokemon is probably more important, more popular, and more relevant than Mother, DK and SF are combined, or at least close to it. Pokemon has nearly released more games just since Brawl than any of those series has in its entire catalog. Believe me, I'm not saying the treatment those series got were right either, I just mean to say if nothing else, Pokemon's may have been the most egregious.

I do agree Pokemon is an extremely popular franchise (especially when comparing it to Mother) but:

A) Starfox is quite relevant, look at the meme (if you can call it that) "Do a Barrel role", that is extremely popular. And Pokemon doesn't have a huge meme like that (at least one that I know of). Plus Star Fox 64/Lylat Wars is extremely well known title, to those that grew up with Nintendo 64. So it's a pretty well know franchise

B) Donkey Kong, well I don't have to go in to, too much detail. But recent games have sold well. And Donkey Kong is a household name, if you didn't grow up with Donkey Kong Country, then you know him from the Mario days. And now younger generations are playing the more recent DK games.

When combining A and B I doubt you can say that Pokemon is more relevant than Donkey Kong and Starfox combined, they're pretty successful franchises.

C) The amount of games released circa Super Smash Bros release shouldn't warrant more reps in the Smash Bros. If anything it is how iconic they are (such as Duck Hunt), if they're a significant part of Nintendo history or the game has some involvement/developed with Sakurai.

I think if any franchises that got the finger were either Zelda or DK, as neither got a newcomer.

 

[Arcadenik]

I can see through this thinly veiled pretext... yes, Mewtwo got the middle finger but the Pokemon franchise as a whole didn't get the middle finger.

 

[Reila]

Yes, surely the most well represented franchise in Smash got a middle finger because a certain character isn't playable (yet).

 

[Omega-Smasher]

Well, I could say that Zelda, Star Fox AND Metroid got the middle finger treatment as well.

One of Nintendo' biggest franchises (Up there with Mario and Pokemon) have received no newcomers despite popular votes. That's one reason why I don't like Smash 4's roster...

 

[TheNerdyOne_]

The three franchises that you use as an example of getting more reps than Pokemon all got clones, which all used to be alts and were added late in development because they had extra time. No Pokemon had alt costumes of another Pokemon, so there was nothing to upgrade.

You should instead by judging it by the number of new, unique reps a series gets. In that case, the only series that got more than one is Mario, the flagship of Nintendo (which isn't really surprising and is justified). With Pokemon being the most likely to get a DLC character, not to mention all of the new Pokeballs and stages, Pokemon definitely didn't get the middle finger.

 

[Ridley22]

I think the argument here isn't really "Pokemon got shafted," but more "KI, FE, and Mario got too much in comparison to the rest."

 

[HeavyLobster]

I can see through this thinly veiled pretext... yes, Mewtwo got the middle finger but the Pokemon franchise as a whole didn't get the middle finger.

More like Genwunners feel like they're getting shafted by only getting 3 reps, because they're not willing to acknowledge that Greninja is as good a Pokemon, both in-game and as a Smash rep, as any of the original 151. I was a big supporter of Mewtwo but was able to come to terms with him not being in when I saw how awesome Greninja was.

 

[FlareHabanero]

ITT: Let's Ignore pretty much everything Pokemon got and complain about not getting Mewtwo.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes. A franchise that has 5 playable characters, (one of which is new) 2 summoning items, (one of which is new) and 3 new stages is getting a middle finger.

Cry me a freaking river.

 

[Backgammon]

I'm closing this topic. It degenerated extremely fast. If you think there's some good conversation to be salvaged from it, feel free to PM me and we can discuss it.