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Derf.MW's little thread on mentality

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
Slippi.gg
SOFA#941
[I typed this at like 4 in the morning, so bear with me]

So, we play the Ice Climbers. We're pretty famous for getting frustrated. Probably justly so, we have some pretty near impossible matchups like Peach and Samus, and then a lot of matchups, like luigi or ganon, where we just aren't always free to play how we want and get forced in to certain defensive and patient styles. On the other-hand, we have matchups like fox or sheik, where we are often forced to take the offensive when it is less than ideal. My point is: we don't always get to play how we want, and that is hair-rippingly frustrating.

Over my years as an active Ice Climber player, I've met many former Ice Climbers who just got fed up with not being able to play their way. I myself got stuck in that same mentality for a long time. A character that I once found to be the most fun and interesting in the game I now only clung to because of past success. My tournament progress staled, and I felt I could not improve at the rate I wanted to.

My tournament results began to always have the same pattern. I'd lose much earlier in the bracket than I felt I should because I would run into somebody who pulled out a peach or a samus. Even people who barely used the character.

Like many Climbers before me, I gave in to the frustration of fighting peach and samus and losing to pocket IC counters. Even though I still spent countless time grinding out tech skill, I was still losing to people I knew I was better than because of some matchup or another. I tried my hand at playing my old main, fox, as well as cycling through several secondaries, like sheik or falcon, I felt would make up for my characters flaws, but quickly lost hope in those as well.

I, like many other ICs, felt completely defeated by my character, which I now claimed only was successful due to gimmicks and matchup unfamiliarity.

So what in the world was I supposed to do?

--- --- ---

So today I went to a tournament in Michigan. I was playing well, but I was in the same pool as zDuck, one of the best samus players. My sheik, which I had deemed my samus counter, wasn't playing as good as I'd hoped, so I stuck with my ICs, with no hope of winning. He four-stocked me two games in a row.

After our set, we had some downtime, and I asked him, "can I practice my sheik against you, I'm trying to make her my samus/peach counter."

If you've never had the pleasure of meeting Duck, he's an incredibly down to earth guy and a fantastic player. While we were talking, he explained to me that you can't win a counterpick war.
He told me about his own frustrations as a samus player, another mid-tier, with many of the same frustrations of ICs, and having to deal with people pulling out pocket sheiks to counter him. He'd had to deal with these things for years, yet he is still one of the top players in Michigan.

After giving our conversation a lot of thought, I'd realized where I've gone wrong in recent months.
It's a really simple concept, but somehow it went straight over my head.

Our mentality towards the game affects much more than simply whether or not we win or lose a match. I may lose a match because I became frustrated or impatient, but there is a lot more too it than that.

When I am in a toxic mentality, I am telling myself at least one of the following:
"I should beat my opponent"
"I deserve to win"
"I would win if my opponent didn't play _____"
"I could win if I could play as _____"

Notice that all of these statements involve the concept of winning.
I am putting an emphasis on beating my opponent.
In short, I gauge my own skill and/or improvement on whether or not I can win.
I need to prove that I am better by winning.

When I lock myself into the mentality of playing simply to win, I stop playing to learn.
I am no longer focused on improvement, but on the concept of beating my opponent.

Of course I should try to win matches, of course I should try to beat my opponent, but winning is not the ultimate goal.
My goal is to learn. By learning I am, in turn, able to beat more people.

Regardless of the result of the set, every game I play is a new experience, every opponent I face is a chance to learn. By remaining in this positive mindset, playing to learn, not just to win, I remove the frustration and I focus on the experience. This is what turns someone into a good player, by remaining teachable, and not falling back into a toxic mentality.
 
Last edited:

KingDozie

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
456
[I typed this at like 4 in the morning, so bear with me]

So, we play the Ice Climbers. We're pretty famous for getting frustrated. Probably justly so, we have some pretty near impossible matchups like Peach and Samus, and then a lot of matchups, like luigi or ganon, where we just aren't always free to play how we want and get forced in to certain defensive and patient styles. On the other-hand, we have matchups like fox or sheik, where we are often forced to take the offensive when it is less than ideal. My point is: we don't always get to play how we want, and that is hair-rippingly frustrating.

Over my years as an active Ice Climber player, I've met many former Ice Climbers who just got fed up with not being able to play their way. I myself got stuck in that same mentality for a long time. A character that I once found to be the most fun and interesting in the game I now only clung to because of past success. My tournament progress staled, and I felt I could not improve at the rate I wanted to.

My tournament results began to always have the same pattern. I'd lose much earlier in the bracket than I felt I should because I would run into somebody who pulled out a peach or a samus. Even people who barely used the character.

Like many Climbers before me, I gave in to the frustration of fighting peach and samus and losing to pocket IC counters. Even though I still spent countless time grinding out tech skill, I was still losing to people I knew I was better than because of some matchup or another. I tried my hand at playing my old main, fox, as well as cycling through several secondaries, like sheik or falcon, I felt would make up for my characters flaws, but quickly lost hope in those as well.

I, like many other ICs, felt completely defeated by my character, which I now claimed only was successful due to gimmicks and matchup unfamiliarity.

So what in the world was I supposed to do?

--- --- ---

So today I went to a tournament in Michigan. I was playing well, but I was in the same pool as zDuck, one of the best samus players. My sheik, which I had deemed my samus counter, wasn't playing as good as I'd hoped, so I stuck with my ICs, with no hope of winning. He four-stocked me two games in a row.

After our set, we had some downtime, and I asked him, "can I practice my sheik against you, I'm trying to make her my samus/peach counter."

If you've never had the pleasure of meeting Duck, he's an incredibly down to earth guy and a fantastic player. While we were talking, he explained to me that you can't win a counterpick war.
He told me about his own frustrations as a samus player, another mid-tier, with many of the same frustrations of ICs, and having to deal with people pulling out pocket sheiks to counter him. He'd had to deal with these things for years, yet he is still one of the top players in Michigan.

After giving our conversation a lot of thought, I'd realized where I've gone wrong in recent months.
It's a really simple concept, but somehow it went straight over my head.

Our mentality towards the game affects much more than simply whether or not we win or lose a match. I may lose a match because I became frustrated or impatient, but there is a lot more too it than that.

When I am in a toxic mentality, I am telling myself at least one of the following:
"I should beat my opponent"
"I deserve to win"
"I would win if my opponent didn't play _____"
"I could win if I could play as _____"

Notice that all of these statements involve the concept of winning.
I am putting an emphasis on beating my opponent.
In short, I gauge my own skill and/or improvement on whether or not I can win.
I need to prove that I am better by winning.

When I lock myself into the mentality of playing simply to win, I stop playing to learn.
I am no longer focused on improvement, but on the concept of beating my opponent.

Of course I should try to win matches, of course I should try to beat my opponent, but winning is not the ultimate goal.
My goal is to learn. By learning I am, in turn, able to beat more people.

Regardless of the result of the set, every game I play is a new experience, every opponent I face is a chance to learn. By remaining in this positive mindset, playing to learn, not just to win, I remove the frustration and I focus on the experience. This is what turns someone into a good player, by remaining teachable, and not falling back into a toxic mentality.
This is really nice its important to have fun so you can take loses easier and improve from that. You also want to win too lol.
 
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IceTrain

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
6
I agree. I use to john excessively because I was sure I was better and knew more about the game than my opponent. But I've learned to put my pride aside and take losses as pure learning experiences. If I lost to a puff or peach or marth, I know that I need to learn from it and not justify it as something that should never have happened. You can plateau quickly if you convince yourself you don't need to take anything away from a loss other than bitterness. I can see myself grow by focusing on how my opponent outplayed me even if it was something they easily exploited. (Since its not their fault, only mine that it happened)
 

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
the absolute worst thing you can do is get mad. being frustrated is bad enough, but once you cross that line from frustrated to angry, you're brain shuts off, you're even more prone to mistakes, and then as you make more mistakes, you get dunked.

it's not easy to reset your mentality in tournament. Especially once you cross into anger.
recently, when I feel myself getting frustrated over a loss or even just a set in general, If I have time before my next set, I've been doing quick 10-15 minute meditations to refocus and reset my mentality.

It's hard to learn to do that if you don't have a lot of experience with meditation though. I remember I used to try it because someone recommended it a few years back, but I didn't meditate daily back then, so it didn't really provide the same results.

but w/e. that's my spiel. I actually totally have more to add to this thread, I'l probably do it tomorrow.
 

S2rulL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
393
Location
whatever
I can relate to this. I constantly moan and complain about how hard the Peach/Icies and Puff/Icies MUs are and I tried learning both Shiek and Marth in order to counter them to no avail. So I just kept playing Icies against both and I can now play them, not necessarily comfortably nor confidently, but I can still play them with Icies.
 

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
just so you know, ICs kinda bop puff.
but I feel it, I have a ton of trouble with marth, it's always been the bane of my existence.
But you gotta just keep that mentality in check. It will beat you before your opponent does.
 

S2rulL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
393
Location
whatever
just so you know, ICs kinda bop puff.
Wait, for real?! I always ****ing struggle with that MU. I can never seem to counter her cus I have to either rely on my opponent ****ing up and coming too close to the ground or rely on disjointed hitboxes...
Huh, gonna have to research that.
 

DerfMidWest

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Cleveland, OH
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SOFA#941
Pretty much just wavedash OoS to punish her retreating bairs, and don't let her come down.
It's a lot of just wavedashing into smashes to punish her position.
nanapults are also quite good, if you can do the belay desyncs OoS.
for me, the big things to watch out for are random fsmashes and ballsy rests.
Her dair is also pretty good at doing weird things.

try watching some matches of Fly/Wobbles/Chu vs Hbox.
It's a pretty straight forward matchup once you understand it.
 
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UPTILT | Kanye

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
2
This thread totally sums up my current problem. I have the ****tiest match up against marth and alot of my friends have pocket Marths just so they can deal with me playing IC's. Im definitely going to keep this in mind at the next tournament we have.
 

DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
[I literally posted the same thing like 2 or 3 posts above]

meditation is amazing for your mental health in tournament environment. I encourage it.
 
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