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Demon Lord Ghirahim's Fabulous Horde of Stunning Features! CONFIRMED ASSIST TROPHY APPEARANCE!

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Holder of the Heel

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Demon Lord Ghirahim's Fabulous Horde of Fabulousness
Ghirahim for SSB4 Character Support Thread

Introductions

Hello Smashers, I've caught wind of something. Demon Lord Ghirahim is looking for new recruits for his Horde to serve Master Demise. Apparently, Bokoblin's are not very smart (or fabulous, for that matter). As my Lord Ghirahim's second in command, I advised that he make an appearance for Smash Brothers Next. Somehow the idea of him being up on stage shedding blood and letting his personality shine filled his heart with rainbows, so here I am to cleanse you humans of your lack of Ghirahim support.

First thing first, I am not saying Ghirahim will be making a character appearance, the closest thing I'll guarantee is that he will show up in either sticker, trophy, or assist form. That being said, I will most certainly provide a rationale that thoroughly proves that if The Legend of Zelda franchise is going to acquire a new representative, there are more reasons for us speculators to believe in Ghirahim. This of course does not mean Sakurai will pick him above the others (Skull Kid, Vaati, Impa, and Tingle will be touched upon). The reasoning for this can be handled by a friend of ours:

[COLLAPSE="Ancient Aliens Guy"]
[/COLLAPSE]

Moving on, in this thread you will see spoilers for The Legend of Skyward Sword. You will not get a spoiler tag from me! Never! This is because the game has been out for quite some time, and that by clicking on this character I will assume you are willing to learn about this character or already know about him, because coming here hypersensitive about Skyward Sword spoilers is just dumb and makes my gorge rise. (Plus covering for spoilers is inconvenient for me and makes this post not look as nice.)

Now, onto more juicy topics!

Who exactly IS Ghirahim?

Excellent question. As mentioned previously, he is a support/primary villain in the most recent console The Legend of Zelda. While he is the most prevalent villainous face in the game, continuously showing up to try and stop Link on his adventure, he really serves his master Demise, who is the ultimate boss in the game, and is the source of all Ganons in the following Zelda games, while Ghirahim is a boss three times, the third time being the penultimate encounter right before Demise.

In The Legend of Zelda, Link and Zelda live in Skyloft and attend the school there, graduating at Knights. It is right after this joyous moment that Zelda is buffeted by a tornado and falls to the world below the clouds. This is where Link goes down beneath the clouds to the scary land below where Demon Lord Ghirahim rules. He commands monsters, mostly Bokoblins, that rampage and pillage the lands, doing his bidding in the process. They make up the bulk of what Link must cut down as he looks for his Zelda.

Soon Link encounters Ghirahim at the end of the first dungeon, beyond the Boss Door. A scene transpires before they fight. A video of that occurrence can be seen here!

The next time you meet him is much briefer and doesn't involve you combating him, you can watch it here!

He appears once more at the end of a dungeon, after having beaten Moldarach. This time however you get to see him in a scene quite beautifully, watch it here!

The fourth time in a row he shows up around a boss is the following boss, Koloktos, in a similar manner with the second dungeon. It is brief, but he appears quite nicely despite the brevity, watch it here!

The fifth time is all the same beyond a Boss Door, but much more like the first time. That's right, you fight him! But not after a glorious chat with him, gotta love his lines and attitude! Watch it here!

The sixth time doesn't involve a boss fight, but does indeed show up after a dungeon is complete in this clip, where he is quite angry! The last hour of the game transpires, and in it you see some more Ghirahim, then you fight him for the last time, and then you find out who he truly is right before you battle his master, Demise! It is a must watch for any Ghirahim fan, Skyward fan, video game fan, or anyone who just wants to understand who Ghirahim is, so click here!

I'm relying on footage quite a bit here, and a lot of it is actually not Ghirahim, but seeing him in action is what sells his character, and what will help you understand his fighting potential and fully comprehend my example moveset that I will post that I made quite some time ago. Otherwise, his fabulous personality and fighting technique will be quite lost on you.

To sum up his character, he is a humanoid sword wielder that can cast dark magic that summons things and warps things. His personality is very flamboyant and narcissistic, but he is very dedicated and respectful to his master. He hides a large amount of bloodlust and desire for darkness and chaos under an aristocrat facade. But if you watch the videos, you will be more aware of that than anything I can simply type here, so I will roll right on to the moveset I mentioned previously.

My Sample Ghirahim Moveset

[COLLAPSE="Demon Lord Ghirahim"]*~*~*~*~*~STATS~*~*~*~*

SIZE: 7 [Ghirahim is a tall being, being capable of looking down on his fated foe Link every time they clash blades]
WEIGHT: 6 [Despite his height though, he is extremely scrawny and can be thrown around by strikes of the Goddess Sword]
TRACTION: 8 [Though his incredible traction keeps him on his feet, even being able to grab the Chosen Hero's blade and tear it out of his hands in a struggle that hardly falters his fabulous composure]
SPEED: 3 [Yet this very composure tends to make him quite stagnant and composed in his movements making him quite sluggish and prefers to savor the atmosphere of punishment for his opponents]
AIR: 6 [But his speed picks up in the air, the wind exciting his blood thirst, flowing by his exquisite form with ease as he prepares to give pain from above]
FALL: 5 [When struck in the air though, he slows down slightly as his movements become unintentional and the swiftness of his gliding tapers off]

All in all, Ghirahim has the capability to perform adequate on land and on wind yet with average sagacity. Where he may be slow and not gifted in any particular area, he makes it up with the articulate and improvising moveset that allows him to do a large array of things depending on the situation, being a true weapon to the core while still keeping his style stunning. His play style isn't that linear to explain objectively for everyone, but the main points are that he relies on combo making in his strikes to build up damage, and his B attacks allow him to travel the stage and defend himself. Some of his moves, as a drawback to him, are slower or have greater lag because of his eccentric moves, hair-flipping, and poses, so combos that fail will leave you open, but as a result the combos that are successful... have such BEAUTY! *pose* Such form! *camera change* Such exquisite physique! Such stunning features! Yeah, he pretty much has it all.

*~*~*~*~*~SPECIAL MOVESET~*~*~*~*~*

Up Special: Dark Transportation Snap
When Ghirahim wants to make a quick escape from any present area, he calmly lifts up a hand and snaps his fingers, instantaneously breaking apart into gray fragments, and like Mewtwo's and Zelda's Up Special attacks, he shall reappear in a congruent manner after a moment's pause in the direction indicated by the controller stick with no damage involved to anyone nearby.. This is an amazing technique to wisp across the stage instead of his slower travelling speed, and his only good way of going a long distance in a tight spot; however, if he his hit in the middle of his rather prompt snapping, he will be interrupted and the DTS will not occur. The maximum distance covered is 2/3 the length of Final Destination, the least being a position adjacent to the one where it was activated.

Side Special: Blood Thirsty Assault
When his opponents are far away, Ghirahim's slow movements also come for a little more effort, requiring him to place the sword down by his side, bend his knees, growl slightly, and then run forth with a slight increase in speed (+2). If he runs into someone as he charges, his blade slings out dealing 13%. As long as Side B is held he goes forth, and once let go, his strike will swing out with a black veil pervades in its wake adding a beautiful element to his attack. His strike his flail in the direction last flicked before letting go of the rush.

Down Special: Weapon Armor Block
Ghirahim's arms in SSB4 are covered in his armor that he animates on his arms in the second battle with Link within the Fire Sanctuary. He holds his arms out to protect himself, and if struck he will bounce back unharmed like in his battle above the Sealed Grounds unless it is a projectile attack, which will rattle him and leave him open for a brief second before recomposing himself.
Down Special plus A: Demon Reversal
In addition to the close quarter blocking, if the A button is hit in close proximity to an opponent, Ghirahim grabs the target and rolls over him and ends up behind him and performs a round-house kick that does 10% damage. If the B button a different direction is chosen, he will also perform a different action, making this move is versatile close-quarters offensive defense.
Down Special plus Up: Endless Plunge
If while blocking he goes up, he will use a short version of his Dark Transportation after jumping up and appear in the angle chosen in the air with a second Ebony blade in his hands and crash down dealing 14% damage, but a considerable lag to recover as he lifts his blades out of the ground, stand straight up, and send his second blade away.
Down Special plus Side: Zweihander Counter
If the left or right direction is selected in the middle of blocking, he will summon the large sword with minimal lag into his hands and guard his body with it with 10 health, and if struck without being destroyed, it activates a counter with the blade and it soon perishes, but if destroyed, he leaves himself open in a moment of imbalance, dealing 9%.​

Standard Special: Magical Crimson Projectiles
Being Ghirahim's single and only projectile attack, and being quite weak at that, it tries to overcompensate by versatility. During his various fights with Link, Ghirahim would commonly snap his fingers and call upon several floating blade-like projectiles that are quite small. This move can be tapped in order to send a single MCP forward that homes in on a target's direction (and does not follow) dealing 2% damage. It can be held, however, and produce up to four projectiles until finally becoming a spinning circle aura around him that deals 1% damage to anyone foolish enough to bump into him, and when B is tapped once more they scatter towards their targets. Only if they were starting to charge do they stay on his person, and can be destroyed easily, only bearing 1 HP. Like the other standard B chargeable moves, if he is hit while snapping his fingers for the MCP's, he will lose all of them produced immediately.

*~*~*~*~*~STANDARD MOVESET~*~*~*~*~*

Jab Combo: Black Cross Combo
Ghirahim combines a basic vertical slash in front of him, and if the A button is hit once more, a horizontal slash strike comes out fast enough to slice the black pervading the sword's strike, making a black + symbol for a brief moment in the attack animation, though of course that does nothing but simply look nice. The first strike deals 6% and the second faster one puts out 2%. The first attack, as could probably be guessed, has a small knockback, but the second does not and merely adds to the pain.

Dash Attack: Merciless Thrusts
Ghirahim's slow running is ended in a strike of great finesse that involves Ghirahim spreading his body out to increase his reach, the tip of his blade shooting forward and stabbing the forward target with 8% damage, and if the A is hit again like with the standard Jab Combo, while he lands on his feet he shall pull back his hand and cry out with extra oomph and stab once more tacking on an extra 4%.

Forward Tilt: Precision Slice
The Demon Lord leans forward and slashes diagonally in front of him with farther reach that his Jab dealing 7% damage, but the reason this is especially dubbed the Precision Slice, is if you tap A quickly, he will quickly slash backwards along the same diagonal line made, cleaning up the precise black line made by the previous strike adding 3% to his victim.

Up Tilt: Sinister Skyward Strike
In his last encounter with Link on the Sealed Grounds, Ghirahim mimics his opponent's ability to life up his sword, charge it, and fling a blast along the tip of his blade, however his is much weaker in that it is capable of being bounced back, and this is why a projectile standard attack is not too much. Not to mention it is similar to Ganondorf's Up Tilt where he stops and charges a slow attack before letting loose the fiery orange beam, and if it is struck it will return in the direction sent from, though the maximum amount of distance it shall cover is the length of Final Destination, and a crawl at that, thus making it easier to counter and avoid, even if trying to make it back upon the stage. 10% damage and minor lag upon hit.

Down Tilt: Feet Cutter
Among his many talents, Ghirahim may also crawl on all fours in a creepy manner, and with the tap of A, he will slash his black blade across to slice at someone's feet dealing 4%, and if tapped quickly again he will stop his crawl (movement during this is always stilled) he will bring his weapon up and stab it down once again striking at the enemy's feet but with more thrust and more lag unto the target, dealing a sick 6%.

*~*~*~*~*~SMASH ATTACKS~*~*~*~*~*

Forward Smash: Dual Death Deal
Ghirahim decides to stop toying with his opponent with a single blade and a second materializes in his spare hand for a brief moment long enough for him to bring them out to his sides and slash horizontally with one blade above the other dealing 7% for both blades, totaling 14% damage per forward smash.

Up Smash: Double Arc Slash
Ghirahim spins around elegantly slinging his blade up in an arc up above his head towards the opposite direction he is facing, and he swings his empty hand that obtains a temporary second blade that does a follow up surprise strike before disappearing once more. 8% for the first strike and 6% for the second.

Down Smash: Whimsical Kill Spin
He faces the screen and puts his arms quickly to his sides, animating a second blade as the common motif for his Smash Attacks, and then spins on one foot in place really fast, the blades angled downward and slashing like a top, dealing 13% per strike around the sword hitbox with large knockback, and 3% with no lag with hit by his upper body while spinning.

*~*~*~*~*~AERIAL STRIKES~*~*~*~*~*

Neutral Air: Beautiful Somersault Attack
Ghirahim grips his blade with both hands and curls up, spinning as the blade slices anyone who gets in its reach dealing 6%, and then sticking the landing with a smile.

Up Air: Skyward Impalement
The dark weapon stabs upward as he bends his feet back and setting aside his empty hand, posing perfectly while he impales the victim up above him with 9% damage and excellent juggling capability due to shooting the opponent up.

Forward Air: Agile Side-Kick
Pulling back his sword for once, he lifts up his back leg and then kicks with the front to push enemies away, and reminding him that he is lean and flexible, with excellent reach and martial arts capable, as shown in the battle with Link on the Sealed Grounds. This particular move does 8%, and if you hit A quickly, another combo is opened up: he now does an axe-kick by lifting his other leg and dropping it down, hitting an opponent from above by the heel dealing a rather soft spoke of 8% as well.

Back Air: Noble Pride
Without even turning the other direction, with a "Hmph," he puts the blade to his opposite side and stabs backwards with smaller range, smacking any fool behind him trying to catch him by surprise with 4%. Show a fool a little mercy, he thinks himself an equal! However, if Ghirahim finds that the foe is still persistent, he will growl. He has had enough of this foolishness! He will roar out and spin to the direction the Back Air was and see through the punishment of this pest by slashing for 10% and decent knock-back. Good for changing directions.

Down Air: Grave Digger
Similar to his Side-Upward Special Combo the "Endless Plunge", Ghirahim drives downward viciously, looking to end his foe here and there, like the Down Air of Game & Watch but deals much more and has a lag of having to pull out the single blade from the ground, being unable to be a spammable move like Toon Link's Down Air dealing 9% with strong knock-back potential. Strike with this move and you will fill Ghirahim's heart with rainbows! But if not, he will grow impatient and angry: it is a character flaw of his.

*~*~*~*~*~THROWS~*~*~*~*~*

Standard Grapple Attack: MCP Scrape/Royal Stomp
While gripping his opponent, all MCP's deal 1% damage per second in his hold by stabbing upon the command of A, dealing 5% if fully charged. If none are present, he stomps on his opponents foot dealing 1% damage instead.

Back Throw: Backward Rolling Push-Kick
Ghirahim reaches out with a hand and grabs his opponent around the neck, and if selected to throw him back he roll backwards, putting the opponent above him, but do not fear! Ghirahim's strength pulls through and as he finishes his roll, he kicks with his two legs and sends his victim backward as he rolls back onto his feet safely. 7% damage.

Downward Throw: Folly Swiper
The Demon Lord shoves his grappled opponent to the ground and then slashes his blade along the opponents body at close range causing the foe to bounce away distraught and dealt 9% damage.

Forward/Upward Throw: Aerial Projectile Target
Yes, that is right, he throws his target (2%) forward and high in the air and promptly snaps his fingers sending a volley of five projectiles (1% each). The same happens with the Upward except it is of course straight up, but this time no Projectiles are made, the ones that are floating on your person from your Standard B (if none are there, the move ends here) float up and home in on the body of the target and strike from all directions, dealing 1% each.

*~*~*~*~*~FINAL SMASH~*~*~*~*~*

Final Smash: Unsealing Demon King Demise
If Ghirahim strikes a Smash Ball and his B, a Seal Spike (that the Imprisoned is sealed with) will rise from his spot on the ground where he is, and he will become invulnerable for a moment as he then begins his ritual dance from the Sealed Grounds segment of Skyward Sword, disappearing and reappearing in the silly manner as well. Once finished Demise quickly appears from the seal with twice the height of Ghirahim and with the bulk of Bowser, and he will turn Ghirahim into his Dark Master Sword. He casts his hand to the side and the stage will temporarily transform to the Serene Battlefield where he is dueled in Skyward Sword (a flatland with no edges or empty pits to fall into) and lightning will randomly strike spots dealing 12% damage to enemies. You now control his unholiness.

The difference between this and most transformation moves (beyond the changed setting) is that it isn't timed, but rather Demise is given a health of 250, thus either becoming shorter or longer in use than the ones like Giga Bowser, Super Sonic, etc. He experiences no lag from hits and cannot be grabbed, and he cannot jump and run. He is a large target, but can deal out a lot of damage in his time with his small moveset.

Standard Combo: Dark Master Sword Offense
Like in his final battle with Link, Ghirahim in hand, he will strike (even while casually walking) diagonally (20%) and then diagonally once more (22%) before stopping to bring down a powerful vertical strike (24%).

Downward Special: Conductible Skyward Blade
He lifts up his weapon (opening himself briefly to attacks) and lightning crashes down upon Ghirahim, the blade being electrified with a blue sparking energy. His attacks will deal 3% more damage and have a minor stun, but at the end of the DMSO (Standard Combo) the vertical strike sends a beam of electricity out across until it disappears off the stage, stunning foes (going through them) and dealing 16% damage. The lightning that is called down can also strike foes trying to linger in the air to avoid him, and deals 12% like the normal hazard bolts.

Standard Special: Dark Master Sword Defense
He will hold out his blade in the direction he faces (capable of turning around while held) and move his arm around with the angle of the control stick to block any attack that strikes the large blade, being his sole ability to prevent damage on his set health. If it is electrified, any physical blocked attack from a foe will cause that foe 1% damage and stun.

Upward Special: Colossal Hurl
In the fight with Link, when Demise was knocked down, he expressed the capability of hurling his body great lengths into the air, curving in the direction indicated. He can do this upon command with pre-lag and upon landing he will lag greatly to recover from his great weight tossed around, but sends a short Imprisoned Foot Shockwave from both sides that Link faced while fighting his cursed form (the red reverberating ring) that deals 5% damage and small knockback. But anyone landed upon will be dealt 30%, and anyone hitting his body while he is hurling himself will be knocked away with 12%.

Forward Special: Colossal Dash
In the second phase of the duel between Link and Demise, he is capable of stepping off his feet and rushing forward and slashing at the end of the strike, which is what he does here, crossing half the length of the stage and swiping for 10% damage, but helps him travel with a minor bit less of lag compared to the Colossal Hurl.

When Demise is defeated he puts down the blade and disappears, the blade becoming Ghirahim once more, and if he ends up on land when the stage returns to normal he simply remains open for a couple of moments as he hunches over like in the battles with Link when stunned. If he ends up off stage he will unfortunately fall to his death.

*~*~*~*~*~EXTRAS~*~*~*~*~*

Entrance: "Positively Uncivil"
As one could guess, he transports onto the stage, but he does so in the fashion that he leaves Link after their first two encounters: he slowly swoops his sword around and points it straight up, except in the entrance it is reversed.

1st Taunt: "Frowns All Around"
Ghirahim hunches over and growls as he fumbles his hands around as he did when he spoke of Impa getting in the way of his plans, and finally he bubbles up too much and he cries out in anger waving his hands at his sides.

2nd Taunt: Tongue Lick
Throughout the battles with Link, Ghirahim commonly loses to his lust for blood and licks his blade confidently, and his second taunt lets him do just this and then he licks his lips afterwards with a grin as he does before he summons his blades in the Skyward Sword battles.

3rd Taunt: "Your world belongs to darkness!"
Ghirahim snaps out of his calm nature and begins to laugh maniacally with his hands out in front of him, fingers curled, homage to when he lets loose while Demise becomes unsealed at the end of Skyward Sword.[/COLLAPSE]

There are plenty of other things you can do with it, this is what I personally have done with it. Optional Final Smashes could be summoning Bokoblins or, as Smash Daddy suggested, turn into this form that he enters in the third and final battle with him:



If not that last one, he could simply have that as an alternate skin much like Link's Shadow Link. :3

What are Ghirahim's Chances?

Very good question, glad I asked. It is actually a bit controversial, at least it was among the SSB4 speculators here. Ghirahim takes an assault from several angles, jumping such hurdles as 1) Being a current One-Shot Character, 2) Having several other characters battling for a spot, and finally 3) The Legend of Zelda series very likely to not get a newcomer at all! Once again I must touch back to the introduction and remind everyone of the disclaimer that I do not pretend to speak absolutely here, I only do what speculators can do... pass their opinions off as fact speculate. Let us touch upon these three topics and speculate more than the recommended dose.

Edit: To ensure that Ghirahim is even worth Sakurai's God-like eyes to begin with, let us see look at this quote from Smashchu that mentions his criteria.

[COLLAPSE="Smaschu Excerpt on Ghirahim and Sakurai's Criteria"]
#1: The character's inclusion must make people want to play the game.
# 2: The character must be unique.
# 3: The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.
#4: They must contribute to the game balance.

Ghirahim
1)People already are warm to him, or will at least entertain the idea that he should be in. Something to note is this does not include just popularity but something else. He has to be an easy sell to people, even those that have not played Skyward Sword. Ghirahim can do that and you can see the potential in him.
2)Look at Holder's moveset. He has a lot of stuff. Done.
3)Basically, does the game have to be changed for him to be in. No need. Next.
4)This is always hard to say, but seeing as he has a bit to draw from, he can. He could go toe to toe with Marth and counter him with projectiles and teleports. He has enough to fit into the balance.
[/COLLAPSE]

Well! Onto the three hurdles.

1) Ghirahim's One-Shot Character Status

This is possibly the biggest charge brought up against my client. Quite frankly, my objection isn't very Gnostic. It is true, he has only appeared once (albeit in a very contemporary appearance, which could add points to Sakurai-Sama's view), and it is really possible he will not come up again. Though, to everyone who says he will not ever appear again, I must remind everyone that Demise was sealed away in Skyward Sword, and that there were Links before the Skyward Sword Link, and therefore there is a segment of the storyline that is not touched up on. Ghirahim has apparently been serving his master for a while, and has built much loyalty to him, once his master being sealed, he begun his mission to return him to his former glory. He can be brought back, and it can work.

He may even appear after the events of Skyward Sword. I confess, this defense is more of a stretch, because Demise was sealed again, and Ghirahim in Anti-Master Sword form (his true form), mysteriously disappeared when the final boss was defeated. The disappearance either means that he died in the fight or he left knowing his master was finished. Both seem unlikely, knowing that Ghirahim was only participating in the fight as the blade, and the latter showing signs of disloyalty. However, the latter seems possible because Ghirahim is still evil, and he must know when he needs to run away to fight again another day, in fact, he could have left so he can try to save him another time. Also, the idea of Ghirahim dying while he was being wielded is quite odd, and one cannot say that Ghirahim dies when Demise is sealed away, or else Ghirahim would have been missing to begin with.

So there you have it, Ghirahim may likely come back, and there is the fact that perhaps his recent appearance (unlikely for there to be a console Zelda before SSB4) will grant him attention. There is indeed more to say on the subject though. Ice Climbers, Lucas, Roy, Sheik, these are all examples of characters that had only appeared once when they were elected into Smash, three of which were put into in Melee when the roster didn't have to be liberal at all, two of which not having to do with a popular character (Zelda) at all.

2) Ghirahim's Competition?

In the Pre-Brawl days, people demanded for characters like Tingle, Vaati, and Skull Kid (others include Midna, Zant, and The Masked Salesman, but they cannot have a case provided for them, so we will ignore them). We also have people mentioning Impa since she had returned and showed that she can use magic (although very brief). Let us list all of the pros and cons.

Impa Pros:

-Has appeared multiple times
-Most recent appearance is rather recent
-Is a female character (really not much of a pro probably in Sakurai's eyes, but there isn't much to go on)

Impa Cons:

-Only appears as a supporting role everytime, almost impossible to change
-little to moveset potential relying on original moves almost entirely
-Small fanbase
-Potential to be Sheik clone or a luigified clone of Sheik

Skull Kid Pros:

-Really friggin cool
-Main villian role
-Absolutely zero chance of being a clone
-Possible Majora's Mask remake? (possibly not a pro, just a stretch)

Skull Kid Cons:

-Smallish fanbase
-Hasn't appeared in a long while and unlikely to reappear
-Moveset although easy would have to be fairly original due to all of the moves would be derived from instances with his boss fight in which he is always something other than the Skull Kid

Vaati Pros:

-Several main villian appearances
-Excellent moveset potential
-Little to no chance of bearing any resemblance to anyone else with moves and playstyle

Vaati Cons:

-Smallish fanbase
-Potentially unlikely to reappear again (???)

Ghirahim Pros:

-Freshest appearance next to Impa
-Lead Role
-Excellent moveset potential
-VERY Fitting character
-Legitimate fanbase in and out of SSB4 speculation (at least relative to other possible Zelda newcomers)

Ghirahim Cons:

-Unlikely (???) to reappear again

Tingle Pros:

-Has multiple appearances
-Own little spin-off franchise
-Has appeared in a stage in Melee and an Assist in Brawl

Tingle Cons:

-Has a legitimate hatebase
-Only has small roles in LoZ
-Item moveset
-Would probably have his own franchise representation, though that franchise itself is small

If one has to be added, as you can see, that if you were to measure the pros and cons on a scale, Ghirahim would clearly have the best ratio. It could also be noteworthy to say that all of them have the con of having a not so loud fanbase, so one could say that if we are going on the assumption there is to a newcomer at all, that that particular con is irrelevant on all of them, and therefore, Ghirahim only has his (potential) oneshot appearance against him. As a result, the only real hurdle for Ghirahim really is whether the Zelda franchise is getting ANYONE. Which is arguably quite the big one, and thus his chances are still low, and everyone else's lower still. (Vaati is a close second though, I find him quite interesting myself.)

Tingle has a chunk of very good and very bad, while Vaati and Ghirahim have a lot more reasons to be in than not. Skull Kid would seem to outweight Tingle for a LoZ appearance. As mentioned in Tingle's cons, if he were to upgrade from Assist Trophy to character, it'd likely be as his own franchise, but then it wouldn't stop Ghirahim or Vaati, and we also begin to feel that Tingle's franchise is very small and just a spin-off, so we begin to think there are better newcomers.

To touch on the smaller characters such as Groose, Zant, Masked Link, and Midna. Groose is just a support character that does not have much options in terms of a set, which involves a lot of generic physical moves and a few plain items, which everyone could do. He is also not as popular and well-known as Ghirahim, nor is he taken as seriously, few even think of the idea of him being a full fledged character. His truest element would be an Assist at best with his buddies from Skyloft riding Loftwings throwing eggs (for a more in depth discussion of Ghirahim vs Groose vs Smash, check the Groose Support thread).

Zant is generally considered similar to Ghirahim (this is also touched up on the Groose support thread as a subset from the original debate), but I will briefly touch upon it here. There are large distinctions between their personalities and goals, and in terms of the former, there is much less there. Zant, unfortunately, never gathered as much depth and attention as Ghirahim in his game (a shame really), so he never got as much support and fandom. They also both use magic, but don't use it in the same manner. Zant dies in Twilight Princess, whereas Ghirahim probably didn't die in Skyward Sword, and has reason to show up in a prequel. To say however that Ghirahim will fade away same as Zant is not entirely likely and presumptuous to assume anyhow. Ghirahim would likely have more original and derivative moves to set up for his character at any rate. A Zant assist where he spins around with his blades would be wonderful though.

Masked Link is generally posed as a replacement for Toon Link, with the ability to switch between a Deku, Zora, and Goron (which is awesome, we all know this, although having a character with four movesets might have objections raised against him, but I won't linger on that just yet). Toon Link was made as a modified Young Link, who was a modified Link. As a result, he isn't much of a full fledged character despite running differently than Link, so the idea of a Masked Link does get support. However, the likelihood of him appearing again in a new game has been confirmed after all these years (not 100%, but it seems less likely by the year, though the high possibility of a Majora's remake may potentially raise his chances???). It is also a version of what Link represents. What I mean is, Toon Link and Link represent the two versions of Links that show up, whereas Masked Link would just be a one-shot rep of one of the Links, a representative we already have. Demand for his character has also decreased after these years. Is he bad? No. Is he for sure never ever going to get in? Can't say that either. But Ghirahim is more relevant, more likely to show up, has more set potential without having to rely on swapping out for more original sets (and thus being four characters in one), and doesn't seem weird to show up (referring to Masked Link just being another Link, cutting out the rep for all Toon Links, who could come back with an original set for all we know). In a sense, if Masked Link replaces Toon, it may not stop Ghirahim anyhow, unless the monstrous four sets would be counted against LoZ.

Midna's reputation is disappearing (she was really liked back in the pre-Brawl days), and usually needed to be coupled with Wolf Link because she is so small and not given too much to use. This also receives that another "Link" problem (in both senses that it is another Link and the same type of "Link" as the one we will get that will no doubt be remodeled after Skyward Sword in look and given a Skyward accent in moves). It is also not likely to show up again. Ghirahim also has more set potential, only Vaati rivals Ghirahim in that aspect (and Masked Link excluding his overly large set).

3) The Possibility of NO Zelda Newcomers?!

Most people will say this, and it seems so likely that if Ghirahim's fabulous self did not make an appearance, I'd understand the exclusion. The Legend of Zelda rarely adds new characters, and if they do, they do not show up much or play too much importance. The Link vs. Ganondorf to save Zelda set up leaves barely any room for a fourth slot, Toon Link, who is just a different version of Link that has multiple games. Ghirahim showing up would most certainly be contrasting to the rest of the cast in that sense, only Vaati would be somewhat fitting (not as fitting, but more so).

The arguments against this notion are weak but there. The fact that LoZ is very important could justify a new character. The fact that a new one technically hasn't been added since Melee could work in Ghirahim's favor or against him. Probably the trump card would be mentioning Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik having been planned for Brawl but never making it into the final game. The reasons for this are just another factor to speculate on, but it shows that the idea of new Zelda characters isn't too out there for Sakurai, in fact, he was about to add two (considering he counts transformations, as he of course should). They could have been excluded because he didn't want that many, or because of time constraints, which he has mentioned before when remarking how much more he wanted to do with the online, etc.

In addition, a point made by Smashchu is that during the Brawl days, the Zelda franchise representatives were rather unfocused compared to now. Previously we had Midna, Zant, Vaati, Skull Kid, all being asked for a fair degree. Not only is SSB4 bound to be more liberal, but that focus is now more focused on Ghirahim, shifting from the large array of characters that failed to get into Brawl.

So there we have it, pretty much everything that can be used to consider Ghirahim's chances at the moment have been laid out for you.

Okay, I'm Sold. Now What?

Ah! Here comes the fun part! This thread is for expressing your love for your Demon Lord, talking about him and all of his possible additions to SSB Next, debating his chances and other lesser Zelda characters, posting all of the Ghirahim pictures and gifs you find so we can collect them all (but PLEASE be sure to post the appropriate ones... YOU know what I mean. >___>), and sharing your own moveset ideas, for surely there is someone out there that can do a better job than myself! I quite literally ripped his moves straight from the game, inputting absolutely NO imagination into it.

What Would Ghirahim Look Like?

Fortunately, people really like the idea of Ghirahim being in Smash Bros., so we have some hacks up on youtube with him in. For now, here is a BEAUTIFUL one starring him as a skin for Marth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ_sdp6cNYM

Here is one that is Marth but slightly altered
Here is another with Skyward Link, Zelda, and Demise!
 
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Holder of the Heel

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(Made by N3ON) ^^^^

[Collapse="Some Ghirahim Pictures"]
[/collapse]

Frostwraith's Ghirahim SSB4 Signatures


What Music Does Ghirahim Offer?

Ghirahim Battle Theme
Ghirahim Second Battle Theme
Ghirahim Final Battle Theme
Demon Lord Ghirahim's Theme
Demise's Final Battle Theme if Ghirahim has him for a Final Smash

Ghirahim for SSB4 Discussed Elsewhere
Kotaku Discusses Ghirahim
Deviantart Ghirahim Moveset
Gamefaqs Moveset 1
Gamefaqs Moveset 2
Gamefaqs Moveset 3
Gamefaqs Ghirahim SSB4 Discussion
Gamefaqs Ghirahim in "Rate Their Chances" Thread
Gamefaqs "Who Supports Ghirahim for SSB4?" Thread
Youtube Video Ghirahim Set
SSBU Ghirahim Wiki
Super Smash Bros. Fanon Ghirahim Wiki
Ghirahim for SSB4 Discussion/Poll
Ghirahim Challenger Approaching!
SSB4 Ghirahim Character Profile Youtube Video
Zelda Eternity Ghirahim SSB4 Discussion
Gamespot Ghirahim Set 1
Gamespot Ghirahim Set 2
Ghirahim SSB4 Idea on SSBMercurious
Ghirahim SSB4 Moveset on Deviant Art with Subpar Illustrations
Ghirahim Alternate Costumes!
Ghirahim Pool on Gamefaqs
Ghirahim Prediction Youtube Video
Ghirahim Moveset Youtube Video

[COLLAPSE="Ghiraby/Kirhim/GhirahimKirby Design"]
[/COLLAPSE]

Ghirahim Alternate Designs from Hyrule Historia

Hyrule Historia Alternate Design Choices 1
Hyrule Historia Alternate Design Choices 2

Ghirahim's Place and Scores in the "Rate and Discuss Their Chances" thread

24. Ghirahim (2.23 in likelihood, 2.77 in want) [out of five for both]

The Subject from a Skeptical Point-of-View
Much time has passed since I've made this, and I have been gone (and most likely will stay for the most part gone), but having returned, perhaps there may be something more to be added to the topic of Ghirahim in SSB4. These days I am far more skeptic, hence my absence. But given this new perspective, the above exhaustive explanations seem unnecessary. To a pure skeptic standpoint that is to assume nothing other than Sakurai's criteria of originating from a game (of course), having a popularity (not only does he of course pay attention to this and said so, but both Melee and Brawl introduced a large sum of the most-desired characters), having potential (we need a fun character after all, or what's the point?), and fitting the style of Smash Bros. (to which I'd say he does more so than some of the ones we already have!) Considering IP issues and third party over-representation factors cannot affect Ghirahim, these are the few things one must consider. That being said, he does indeed have a fair chance of appearing.
Hyrule Warriors Appearance


Translation: "Ghirahim is the Demon Lord who tried to resurrect his master; the leader of the demons who was sealed away.

He is enormously proud of himself, and vain about his own appearance. He may appear to be formal and polite at first, but once he loses his temper, his brutal and cruel nature emerges.

He attacks with multiple knives in the air, or transforms himself into a giant blade to slash his enemy in a single sweep. He is skilled with swords of all kind, and also good at confusing his enemies with his teleportation ability and by summoning demons. When he loses his composure, he transforms to enhance his power and increase his attack abilities."

Shots from the game:


WARNING: Entering speculatory theory-crafting!


Remember those trophies Sakurai teased during the Smash direct? One of them was a Psuedo-Palutena, and another was Tiki with Robin's theme from Awakening, both of which had related newcomers confirmed. There's an idea circulating that these are teases for newcomers, Fi indicating a character related to The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, which could range from Fi specifically (unlikely since the other trophies don't represent direct reveals), or Impa and Ghirahim. The music playing was the Ballad of the Goddess, which has the Ghirahim theme mixed in. And how can we forget that the Ghirahim theme was being played during the Nintendo E3 direct announcement video that can be watched here which was all about Smash Brothers. ;)

Top 15 of Shortie's SWF Character Popularity Poll

1. Mewtwo Number of Votes: 348 Percentage of Voters: 53.5%
2. Megaman Number of Votes: 338 Percentage of Voters: 52.0%
3. King K. Rool Number of Votes: 297 Percentage of Voters: 45.7%
4. Ridley Number of Votes: 284 Percentage of Voters: 43.7%
5. Isaac Number of Votes: 219 Percentage of Voters: 33.7%
6. Little Mac Number of Votes: 211 Percentage of Voters: 32.5%
7. Roy Number of Votes: 183 Percentage of Voters: 28.2%
8. Krystal Number of Votes: 179 Percentage of Voters: 27.5%
9. Paper Mario Number of Votes: 174 Percentage of Voters: 26.8
%
10. Banjo & Kazooie Number of Votes: 170 Percentage of Voters: 26.2%
11. Bomberman Number of Votes: 158 Percentage of Votes: 24.3%
12. Palutena Number of Votes: 155 Percentage of Votes: 23.8%
13. Ghirahim Number of Votes 152 Percentage of Votes: 23.4%
14. 2nd Sonic Character Number of Votes: 147 Percentage of Voters: 22.6%
15. Geno Number of Votes: 146 Percentage of Voters: 22.5%
 
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Opossum

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I do support Ghirahim as a Zelda rep, but honestly, your moveset sold it for me. Just saying. Good job! I really like the Side B for some reason, too!

I'm still stuck on getting the Kiwiki things in Skyward Sword...
 

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You can't list "has a legitimate hatebase" as a negative, and having a small, yet reacurring role as a negative, and then question that not returning ever again is even a con. I like Ghirahim, but don't make me get Tingle all on yo ***.

:phone:
 

Holder of the Heel

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Haha I only put "reoccurring" there as acknowledging that he does have that and I know people would raise their hand to remind me that. The focus was on the fact that his LoZ appearances were small. Don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say, I don't want any of your Tingle on me!

And thank you Opossum! That was one of my first sets, but I put some love and care into it. :D Seriously, play through all of Skyward Sword and post your thoughts here, and make your own. He has a lot of possibilities, really curious to see what others would put together. :3
 

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I am just trying to help you improve your Ghirahim support thread but whatever.
 

Holder of the Heel

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Touchy touchy.. ._.

Can you explain SPECIFICALLY what is wrong, because like I just said, I am seeing nothing wrong. Just with all the different sizes and shapes they don't come out perfectly square, if that is what you expecting. There is no way I'm going to put it up like that.
 

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When I open the tags, the gifs are partially cut off. There is no horizontal scrolling bar to see the rest of the gifs.

The first tag, I see the Swag gif and the Link x Ghirahim dancing gif in the pink background. I cannot see the rest of the third gif.

The second tag, I see Ghirahim sword gif, the Ghirahim tongue gif, and Ghirahim's close-up gif. I cannot see what's the fourth gif.

The third tag, I see Ghirahim being dazed gif and the Ghirahim being his fabulous self gif. I cannot see the third gif.

The fourth tag, it is all right. I can see everything.

The fifth tag, I see Ghirahim's awesome smiley pic and Ghirahim's **** face pic but it is partially cut off. Not sure if there is a third pic beyond that...

EDIT: Just quoted your post to see what might be the problem... I suspect it's because you did not put spaces between the gifs to separate them.
 

Holder of the Heel

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Thank you! Unfortunately I don't think I can be the judge of whether it is working or not. >_<;
 

Arcadenik

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Ohhh!!! Diddy Kong must have hated that Ghirahim pwning Impa gif! :laugh:
 

Holder of the Heel

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Hahaha, oh you know I posted that for him in our old thread! :laugh: He was mildly offended that I did it. If he makes an Impa thread I'll pop in, post it, then sit back and watch. :3

Sure he will whenever he gets on.
 

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The gifs are working fine for me. That said, I think Ghirahim would be a no-brainer to add to the roster. I mean, he's gained popularity a a lightning fast rate, and would be a new rep for the Zelda franchise that isn't a clone/luigification of Link. Plus, with the moveset idea you posted, Ghirahim simply has to be in the new Smash Bros. at this point.

Again, the moveset idea posted is really creative, and I like how you went then extra mile to include entrances and the like.
 

Holder of the Heel

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Ah, it is nice to hear your support Sol. The reasoning for my thoroughness was because it was submitted to MYM 11 (unfortunately not getting in the top 50, there were so many, and I was a newbie XD), but I definitely had to dedicate it to Ghirahim. He can do so much, that was my main goal for the set, showing that diversity and creativity he exemplifies.

It is true that his fanbase is bigger than most people are aware of here, people obsess over the character in general, only some people here, on youtube, and facebook make the full on connection from what I've seen. It is nice to know that people are aware of the idea though, and it certainly helps that the Nindori magazing placed him pretty high in terms of popularity (he was 18th I believe, which is not bad), so it's not just with us guys in America, Japan is fond of him too. In fact, he is very anime-like, so they probably like him more if I had to guess. :laugh:
 

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Ghirahim was the highest ranking LoZ character for my 2012 poll. The last time I checked, he was 18th most wanted. The next loz character was impa, coming in 39th most popular..

:phone:
 

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18th, are you serious? Ha, what are the chances of that happening? But pretty cool to hear, I kind of figured though that among Zelda characters right now, Ghirahim in terms of popularity is the highest.

Surprised Vaati wasn't higher than Impa though, I remember people wanting him back in the pre-Brawl days quite a bit.
 

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Ah, it is nice to hear your support Sol. The reasoning for my thoroughness was because it was submitted to MYM 11 (unfortunately not getting in the top 50, there were so many, and I was a newbie XD), but I definitely had to dedicate it to Ghirahim. He can do so much, that was my main goal for the set, showing that diversity and creativity he exemplifies.
Well, now everyone can see your idea for a moveset in this thread. Also, even though I've yet to play Skyward Sword, I have read up on Ghirahim enough to know that he is pretty much a must-add for Smash 4, so I definitely support the idea for Ghirahim.
It is true that his fanbase is bigger than most people are aware of here, people obsess over the character in general, only some people here, on youtube, and facebook make the full on connection from what I've seen.
Oh, his fanbase is unquestionably big. His flamboyant and sporadic movements, mannerisms, and personality has been a popular archetype for a while now, especially in Japan (bonus points if they're the "bishonen"-type). He can be cool and collected one moment, and then show a very terrifying and uncharacteristically sadistic side of him the next instant. He's inspired memes, has videos dedicated to him, and he's just overall popular as a Zelda villain.
It is nice to know that people are aware of the idea though, and it certainly helps that the Nindori magazing placed him pretty high in terms of popularity (he was 18th I believe, which is not bad), so it's not just with us guys in America, Japan is fond of him too. In fact, he is very anime-like, so they probably like him more if I had to guess. :laugh:
Japan's taste in character archetypes seem to seldom change, and in the case of Ghirahim, he's that clichéd pretty boy character who dresses weirdly, and is - in layman's terms - crazy. Nintendo tends to cater more to the Japanese audience with their games, and if that is any indication of anything, it's that it definitely helps Ghirahim's chances at seeing a playable Smash debut.
 

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I stopped using the poll at the height of Diddys impa parade. So, go figure. Tingle was next, and then Majora I do believe. Vaati has always had a small following, but not too much of one. Him, Midna, and Majora suffer the same fate. Although Majora has always had a strangly high request count for how old he is.

Anywayyyyys, for Smash4, I think Ghirahim needs to watch out for Toon Zelda. As far as I'm concerned, I don't think sakurai considers Tingle much of a fighter, and he actually planned on adding Toon Zelda\Shiek. So, if I can't have Tingle, and my other option is Toon clones, ill take Ghirahim, gladly.

:phone:
 

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Well, now everyone can see your idea for a moveset in this thread. Also, even though I've yet to play Skyward Sword, I have read up on Ghirahim enough to know that he is pretty much a must-add for Smash 4, so I definitely support the idea for Ghirahim.
You need to play Skyward Sword, if not for Ghirahim, but for how solid of a game it is. You probably won't think it is the best, but it puts a lot of love to some characters, and Hero Mode is a decent challenge. :D

Oh, his fanbase is unquestionably big. His flamboyant and sporadic movements, mannerisms, and personality has been a popular archetype for a while now, especially in Japan (bonus points if they're the "bishonen"-type). He can be cool and collected one moment, and then show a very terrifying and uncharacteristically sadistic side of him the next instant. He's inspired memes, has videos dedicated to him, and he's just overall popular as a Zelda villain.

Japan's taste in character archetypes seem to seldom change, and in the case of Ghirahim, he's that clichéd pretty boy character who dresses weirdly, and is - in layman's terms - crazy. Nintendo tends to cater more to the Japanese audience with their games, and if that is any indication of anything, it's that it definitely helps Ghirahim's chances at seeing a playable Smash debut.
Whoa, loving how you are so into the Demon Lord, how did I miss this? Had no clue. XP

I stopped using the poll at the height of Diddys impa parade. So, go figure. Tingle was next, and then Majora I do believe. Vaati has always had a small following, but not too much of one. Him, Midna, and Majora suffer the same fate. Although Majora has always had a strangly high request count for how old he is.
Hmm.. thanks for the info. I never really conducted a poll for characters before.

Anywayyyyys, for Smash4, I think Ghirahim needs to watch out for Toon Zelda. As far as I'm concerned, I don't think sakurai considers Tingle much of a fighter, and he actually planned on adding Toon Zelda\Shiek. So, if I can't have Tingle, and my other option is Toon clones, ill take Ghirahim, gladly.
I should perhaps talk about them more in my original post, I did mention them, but only to aid a point for him, but they could very well step in his way. I'm the same as you with this, not only do I prefer Ghirahim, but more Toons? Toon Link is enough, and they need to separate him more with the original.
 

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If I could have it my way, I would cut toon link in general, add tingle and ghirahim, and call it good. Back to fighting the good fight in the waluigi thread.

:phone:
 

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You of all people call Tingle detestable. Lol.

:phone:
 

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You need to play Skyward Sword, if not for Ghirahim, but for how solid of a game it is. You probably won't think it is the best, but it puts a lot of love to some characters, and Hero Mode is a decent challenge. :D
Indeed, I shall in due time.

Whoa, loving how you are so into the Demon Lord, how did I miss this? Had no clue. XP
You technically didn't miss it because I never shared my enthusiasm for him... a closet Ghirahim lover, I guess?

Yes, add two characters people I hate instead of one.

Toon Link is in and is staying in because the alternative is such detestable characters as these.
The original Link isn't a bad character as far as design goes. I do like Toon Link, don't get me wrong, but Link is still the top dog of the Zelda series, and that's not going to change. Tingle, I can see your argument, as there are Tingle haters. I don't hate him myself, but never cared for him at the same time. Ghirahim, on the other hand, is different. You may hate him - as do others - but his fanbase and popularity around the world, especially in Japan, a country where Nintendo caters to the Japanese audience, is quite huge. You can hate him, but you can't deny his rather swift impact he's made so far to the Zelda series.
 

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Tingle and Ghirahim are "gay". The west will always be standoffish towards them.

:phone:
 

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The original Link isn't a bad character as far as design goes. I do like Toon Link, don't get me wrong, but Link is still the top dog of the Zelda series, and that's not going to change. Tingle, I can see your argument, as there are Tingle haters. I don't hate him myself, but never cared for him at the same time. Ghirahim, on the other hand, is different. You may hate him - as do others - but his fanbase and popularity around the world, especially in Japan, a country where Nintendo caters to the Japanese audience, is quite huge. You can hate him, but you can't deny his rather swift impact he's made so far to the Zelda series.
I did not claim that he did not have a fanbase. Please do not put words into my mouth. I was just simply claiming that he had a hatebase.

For the record, while I -do- hate both Tingle and Ghirahim, I actually think Tingle is a highly likely addition, -because- of his Japanese fanbase. The main reason for him over Ghirahim specifically is because he's a Zelda character that actually recurs, unlike every other flavor of the month Zelda character. I believe he will die as Skull Kid did for Melee and Midna did for Brawl.
 

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I did not claim that he did not have a fanbase. Please do not put words into my mouth. I was just simply claiming that he had a hatebase.

For the record, while I -do- hate both Tingle and Ghirahim, I actually think Tingle is a highly likely addition, -because- of his Japanese fanbase. The main reason for him over Ghirahim specifically is because he's a Zelda character that actually recurs, unlike every other flavor of the month Zelda character. I believe he will die as Skull Kid did for Melee and Midna did for Brawl.
I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just saying that while he does have a hatebase, his fanbase is still very large. While I can agree that Ghirahim does risk falling into obscurity as Midna and Skull Kid, he is still popular enough where his chances of inclusion is rather good, especially following the success of Skyward Sword. The only way I see them not including Ghirahim, be it as a character available from the word "go" or as DLC, is if they release another main series Zelda game that overshadows Skyward Sword and - by extension - Ghirahim.
 

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Ghirahim isn't really all that hated in America, at least not in the way people hate Tingle. People think Tingle is annoying. People just call Ghirahim Debbie because they believe he is feminine (although he is more properly described as androgynous, silly people..) To say he really has a hatebase is a bit misleading, if I said anything like that in my original post, I should perhaps edit that.

To speak of Ghirahim knowingly in the sense that he is going to vanish from future Zelda games is a bit out of line, and I'd like to remind you that there are more reasons for Ghirahim to return than any enemy other than Ganondorf. Even more than Vaati, who DID return, and if he did so through popularity, than that only aids the Demon Lord. To compare him to Skull Kid at this point is a mistake.

@Sol, don't hide that love in your closet, let it all hang out.
 

Davidreamcatcha

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Ghirahim Pros:

-Freshest appearance next to Impa
-Lead Role
-Excellent moveset potential
-VERY Fitting character
-Fabulous
-Legitimate fanbase in and out of SSB4 speculation

Ghirahim Cons:

-Unlikely (???) to reappear again
Your fanbase? You say that Youtube has more Ghirahim-related videos than Groose videos. While this is true, much of Ghirahim's videos are simply his boss battles - where's the original content there? The highest ranking Groose video, Grooseward Gourd, is completely original content and has around 9,000 likes. The highest ranking Ghirahim video, has about ...600 likes. olol. Your "fanbase", essentially, consists of a tumblr/deviantart fanbase. Don't you know they go crazy for every single prettyboy male who could be implied to be homosexual? The proof is in my avatar. Just because you want to make the Ghiralink Tumblr canon doesn't mean he should be in Smash 4, or that "fabulous" could be a point in his favor.

Also, why can't Impa, Zant or the Happy Mask Salesman have a case for them? They're also likely candidates. Even so, Tingle is more likely than any of the characters mentioned in this post - or Groose.

Groose Pros:

-Freshest appearance next to Ghirahim
-Major Supporting Role
-Has plenty of moveset potential
-Fitting character for the franchise
-Represents Skyward Sword just as well, if not better, than Link (who will likely get the same set he's had)
-Has a decently-sized fanbase

Groose Cons:

-Unlikely (???) to reappear again
 

Holder of the Heel

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Was going to take your post seriously, but then remembered everything said in the Groose thread and how no one could argue against me at all, and also read that you think the Masked Salesman has a chance.

We don't want what you are selling here. :p
 

Davidreamcatcha

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Maksed Salesman was in the group you discounted, along with Zant and Midna, who -DO- have chances.

Your opinion is not everyone's opinion.
 

Holder of the Heel

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Please tell me Masked Man's chances and all the reasons why he will be in.

I was around in the Pre-Brawl days where there was a thread for him, and almost everyone either flamed the idea or just played around with it for fun. Very few were actually very serious. He isn't much different than the idea of Groose. So no, my opinion isn't everyone else's (never said that?), but I know a lot of opinions, and I know factual reasonings, and that there are not much of those for the Masked Salesman, especially in a franchise that very well may not see a newcomer. Ghirahim is the best shot, and even that can understandably not happen.
 

Davidreamcatcha

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Fine, Masked Salesman has no chance - now stop trying to get off the subject of my post and address it.
 

Claire Diviner

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Maksed Salesman was in the group you discounted, along with Zant and Midna, who -DO- have chances.

Your opinion is not everyone's opinion.
Mask Saleman's chances at being in a Smash Bros. game are about as likely as typing perfectly on a computer keyboard with boxing gloves on. Zant and Midna do technically have a chance, but seeing as Skyward Sword is currently the more relevant Zelda title, Ghirahim's chances are very high compared to that of Zant and Midna's.

Groose, realistically, has very little chance at best compared to Ghirahim, especially due to the fact that - other than Demise - Ghirahim is the central antagonist that has shown a varied fighting style, and actually has a huge role in the plot of the story. He may not have inspired more memes than Groose (and I find that very hard to believe), but his popularity as a main character and villain is more significant than that of Groose's popularity as a supporting character, I would say.
 

Holder of the Heel

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I've already posted everything that can be said in the Groose thread, and it was getting nowhere, so I'm bored with it. Why'd you take it over here? @_@

Besides, all you really posted that deserves being looked at is the pros and cons, and those you already know I disagree with strongly and explained THOROUGHLY (seriously, I beat that dead horse back to death). Why on earth would you want a repeat of it here? :laugh: It was just plain ugly.

And thank you Sol. Sol is one of those rational serious types that are nice to have around.

Just look at my avatar and be done with it.
 

Smady

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I don't mind Ghirahim. Personally, I found him to be a good villain by the end of Skyward Sword and one of the better parts of a weak overarching story. He's a blatant stereotype, not offensive, and actually does things in the plot, whereas past villains [Zant, Ganondorf] respectively do nothing or are never met until crucial events occur in the storyline. I don't like that Ghirahim replaces unique bosses in his two temple appearances - can't deny he shows up frequently. Not especially likeable, but he is present more than any other villain in the Zelda games. Counts for something.

While I don't like the character as just mentioned, you can't deny the nearly limitless potential he has from his numerous boss fights. This character is Marth, Zelda and Mewtwo rolled into one pulsating ball of overt creativity because the game designers splurged on all three of his boss fights, making him the ultimate showcase for how the controls could be worked to create a tense one-on-one sword fight. There are many applications for specific things he actually does in the game: he creates a myriad of swords to throw at you from all sides, could easily translate to foreground plus background swords to stop dodging. The projectiles he spams are practically Sheik's needles and Pit's arrows already combined. He has a transformation that is incredibly simple, basically gives him the metal status effect. It's a final smash probably, but that counts as a plus for Sakurai, the inventor of final smashes. Ghirahim has more tacky stuff like minions or generic stuff like sword slashes, giving Sakurai incredible amounts of freedom to do what he wants.

People don't seem to see the potential here for a very good playstyle. Who cares about the character - sure he's flavour of the month, he could sustain that, doesn't matter - what counts is he is one of the easiest characters to make a set for and has any fans, and is remotely relevant at the start of SSB4's development. So yeah, I could totally see him getting in. Not above the obvious picks (Ridley, K. Rool, Pac-Man) but bubbling away with the upper-mid tier of potential newcomers. The haters would quickly get over the character once they saw his moveset in action.

Almost forgot to mention, Tingle is never going to be a newcomer. His latest game was in 2009 and sold moderately well at a push. He is no longer relevant. Ghirahim is direct competition for the slot and not guaranteed, but was just in a game last year that sold about 50 times better than Tingle's latest outing. Unless Sakurai has a serious boner on for Tingle after all these years, which are generally fleeting, I don't see Tingle ever getting in. Plus his moveset wouldn't nearly be as interesting as Ghirahim's. Then again, I hate the character passionately, so I may be biased.
 

Holder of the Heel

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Excellent post Smash Daddy!

I don't mind Ghirahim. Personally, I found him to be a good villain by the end of Skyward Sword and one of the better parts of a weak overarching story. He's a blatant stereotype, not offensive, and actually does things in the plot, whereas past villains [Zant, Ganondorf] respectively do nothing or are never met until crucial events occur in the storyline. I don't like that Ghirahim replaces unique bosses in his two temple appearances - can't deny he shows up frequently. Not especially likeable, but he is present more than any other villain in the Zelda games. Counts for something.
You are very right, I agree that Ghirahim should NOT have been dungeon bosses. He could have had those two boss fights, but they really should have interrupted Link's adventure outside of the dungeons, like he is being followed by Ghirahim and watched closely. It could have been more interactive and interesting in those outside settings as well, instead of just a large plain room.

While I don't like the character as just mentioned, you can't deny the nearly limitless potential he has from his numerous boss fights. This character is Marth, Zelda and Mewtwo rolled into one pulsating ball of overt creativity because the game designers splurged on all three of his boss fights, making him the ultimate showcase for how the controls could be worked to create a tense one-on-one sword fight. There are many applications for specific things he actually does in the game: he creates a myriad of swords to throw at you from all sides, could easily translate to foreground plus background swords to stop dodging. The projectiles he spams are practically Sheik's needles and Pit's arrows already combined. He has a transformation that is incredibly simple, basically gives him the metal status effect. It's a final smash probably, but that counts as a plus for Sakurai, the inventor of final smashes. Ghirahim has more tacky stuff like minions or generic stuff like sword slashes, giving Sakurai incredible amounts of freedom to do what he wants.
Interesting analysis of his moves. I also didn't consider him taking on his final boss fight form instead of unsealing Demise, which is asking for a lot (and if he shouldn't transform into that form, he can simply have an alternate skin much like Shadow Link, can't deny how cool that would be!

People don't seem to see the potential here for a very good playstyle. Who cares about the character - sure he's flavour of the month, he could sustain that, doesn't matter - what counts is he is one of the easiest characters to make a set for and has any fans, and is remotely relevant at the start of SSB4's development. So yeah, I could totally see him getting in. Not above the obvious picks (Ridley, K. Rool, Pac-Man) but bubbling away with the upper-mid tier of potential newcomers. The haters would quickly get over the character once they saw his moveset in action.
Ridley and K. Rool pretty much are the kings of potential newcomers it seems. As for Pac-Man, getting into the realm of third parties is very tricky, so I am unsure on that part.

As for that last sentence, I think anyone who thinks he is too campy will quickly not care when they would play him. ^_^

Thanks for the good post!


Also repeatedly updating my first two posts when I can.
 

Claire Diviner

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I don't mind Ghirahim. Personally, I found him to be a good villain by the end of Skyward Sword and one of the better parts of a weak overarching story. He's a blatant stereotype, not offensive, and actually does things in the plot, whereas past villains [Zant, Ganondorf] respectively do nothing or are never met until crucial events occur in the storyline. I don't like that Ghirahim replaces unique bosses in his two temple appearances - can't deny he shows up frequently. Not especially likeable, but he is present more than any other villain in the Zelda games. Counts for something.

While I don't like the character as just mentioned, you can't deny the nearly limitless potential he has from his numerous boss fights. This character is Marth, Zelda and Mewtwo rolled into one pulsating ball of overt creativity because the game designers splurged on all three of his boss fights, making him the ultimate showcase for how the controls could be worked to create a tense one-on-one sword fight. There are many applications for specific things he actually does in the game: he creates a myriad of swords to throw at you from all sides, could easily translate to foreground plus background swords to stop dodging. The projectiles he spams are practically Sheik's needles and Pit's arrows already combined. He has a transformation that is incredibly simple, basically gives him the metal status effect. It's a final smash probably, but that counts as a plus for Sakurai, the inventor of final smashes. Ghirahim has more tacky stuff like minions or generic stuff like sword slashes, giving Sakurai incredible amounts of freedom to do what he wants.

People don't seem to see the potential here for a very good playstyle. Who cares about the character - sure he's flavour of the month, he could sustain that, doesn't matter - what counts is he is one of the easiest characters to make a set for and has any fans, and is remotely relevant at the start of SSB4's development. So yeah, I could totally see him getting in. Not above the obvious picks (Ridley, K. Rool, Pac-Man) but bubbling away with the upper-mid tier of potential newcomers. The haters would quickly get over the character once they saw his moveset in action.

Almost forgot to mention, Tingle is never going to be a newcomer. His latest game was in 2009 and sold moderately well at a push. He is no longer relevant. Ghirahim is direct competition for the slot and not guaranteed, but was just in a game last year that sold about 50 times better than Tingle's latest outing. Unless Sakurai has a serious boner on for Tingle after all these years, which are generally fleeting, I don't see Tingle ever getting in. Plus his moveset wouldn't nearly be as interesting as Ghirahim's. Then again, I hate the character passionately, so I may be biased.
No words can be any more true or wise.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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This is the most fabulous thread involving Ghirahim. I have a good feeling that our favorite David Bowie-esque swordsman will join the fray. The one thing we need in Smash are more entertaining villains instead of boring ones like Ganondork. :p
 

Jakor

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I wouldn't mind Ghirahim in the next Smash, but I still think Tingle, Skull Kid, Vaati and Impa deserves to get in before him. Ghirahim would still be a great addition though.
 
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