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Dedede Database (The *Buuman trap* included) UPDATED 7/17/09

Discussion in 'King Dedede' started by Buuman, Mar 2, 2009.

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  1. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2006
    Messages:
    760
    Location:
    Spencer MA
    Buuman's Informative DDD Database & Down Throw Traps thread
    (
    *The Buuman trap*included)


    King Dedede
    has many crazy aspects to his grab game aside from just chain grabbing. This is a guide to King King Dedede's strategies aside from the standard chain grab (will go into detail about options and audibles after down throw), a few tricks, statistics, facts, helpful threads for tournament players (all of these threads I have read thoroughly and feel it would be useful to Dedede players), and a list of options and guidelines of what to do against characters in certain situations. Lets get to it.

    INDEX:
    Section I - Useful threads organized for the Dedede community

    Section II
    -
    Tech Chasing With the King
    a.
    The Buuman Trap
    b. Reviews


    Section III - tricks, tips, facts, and/or statistics
    a. Facts
    b. Grab Laws
    c. Range of Dededes Grabs
    d.
    Physics and Applications of Waddle Dees and Doos
    e. Ledge Options
    f. Frame Data and Percents
    g. Characters that can Chain Grab Dedede
    h. Tripping Data and Facts
    i. Projectiles that the F tilt Stops
    j. Super Armor
    k. Objects that can be inhaled

    Section IV - Follow ups from down throw
    a. Characters that can't be f tilted after a down throw
    b. Characters that can be Down Tilted at the edge after a down throw
    c. Characters that can DI out of the down throw tech chase

    Section V
    -
    vertical killing data, stages with low ceilings, %s of up smash and up tilt kills

    Sec. I
    Useful threads:

    +"Buu's Video thread (Tourney matches etc.)" by Buuman
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225756

    +"
    Brickwalls and Traps: The keys to victory"
    by Emblem Lord
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183816
    Great thread for keeping foes at bay, causing frustration, and so much more.

    +
    "The Physics of Attacks (DI included)" by Scotu
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4158733
    Many useful facts, about momentum canceling, DI, smash DI, hitstun...you name it.

    +"Enemies of the Crown: The Official King Dedede matchup thread" by Gates
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192600
    Contributions made by the Dedede community on matchups

    +"Playing to Learn" by MookieRah
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176650
    AMAZING THREAD, highly recommend reading

    +"Keep Losing? Try this..." by cwjalex http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=160643
    Amazing thread that makes you look at the game in a whole new view. One of the most influential threads I've read

    +"
    Formula and Proofs to King Dededes Chain Grab (Finished 12/21/08)"
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204082&page=2
    My chaingrab formula, with some example of distance and why the shield grab chain grab is more effective.

    Sec. II

    Tech Chasin' with the King

    This is absolutely crucial for all of you die hard Dedede mains out there that play against opponents whose characters can't be chain grabbed. (Back throw is also great for damage, but at certain areas on the stage, tech chasin' tops the back throw - (16% right off the bat fresh)

    Tech Chasing - With King Dededes down throw, many characters CANNOT be chain grabbed. You will notice the difference, because the characters that cannot be chain grabbed will hit the ground and now are forced to do something. This, in my opinion is one of the funnest aspects of dededes grab game. They only have FOUR options! (if they miss the tech)

    Roll left
    Roll right
    stand up in place
    and get up attack

    This is amazing because if you can read them well, you can get series of grabs off which can be more damaging than a chain grab. Now you don't have to always follow up a tech chase with another grab...no no no, you have many other options.

    I will describe a few options for certain situations:

    Down B - I usually do this when I can anticipate where the person is going to roll, or if they start jumping out of tech chases, like kirby, and squirtle. Omegablackmage - "A very intimidating move"

    Side B - for characters that have long rolls if you react late on a tech chase. Great option for reacting late, you are keeping you opponent on their toes, and applying pressure. Even if they perfect shield it, you are still out of harms way.

    Forward Tilt - solid move in general for guaranteed damage if you read a roll correctly. Although not that damaging (6%), has great reach.

    Inhale - Great every now and then, because if you begin inhaling them when they're on the ground, they begin getting pulled towards you, and if they decide to roll away...they get inhaled during their roll. Inhale is decent it does (10%) right off the bat, and is good for placement.
    Also, if you space yourself right, if they get up, and you inhale they can't react quick enough after their get up in place. Same applies for get up attacks. *

    *KEEP IN MIND DEDEDE HAS SUPER ARMOR FRAMES WHEN AN OBJECT OR OPPONENT BEGINS THE ANIMATION OF BEING INHALED - (right as they go into the tumbling in midair animation).

    Down Tilt - Great move, come's out extremely fast, has a huge, high priority hit box that has a long duration.

    I use this usually when I anticipate someone that has to think from a tech chase (Due to earlier failures in the match, where they just roll on instinct and I punish them) Use this after you've punished your opponent with tech chases, so they have to think that extra millisecond before making their move, but before the thought even pops into their head, you've down tilted them.

    Note: Inhale destroys spot dodgers out of tech chasing.

    *This will be updated, and many more attacks will be added to this list in the future.
    And don't forget guys, you can stop your run by doing ANY B moves. Inhale applies as well.

    The Buuman Trap
    (Devised and used by me )
    See video below for the actual application during tourney:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o4v7-r10C8


    The legendary tech chase that is unavoidable if the 12 non chaingrabbable characters miss a tech after being down throwed by Dedede. Back last year, I was doing this all of the time, without even realizing that my opponent couldn't escape getting nailed by the down smash. Back when most dedede would back throw for the damage because you can't chaingrab the un chaingrabbable and felt that tech chasing was risky. Now I didn't miraculously come up with this. I rarely missed when I set up the tech chase which today is called the Buuman trap.

    At one point, I asked OBM (Omegablackmage) "Why is it, that I always land that move...?" So I told him to stand still, with various chars, like metaknight, and to let me space the tech chase right. I told him to try everything. But with naturally good timing on my part, there was nothing he could do unless he teched the ground.

    Months ago, I resurrected this technique in text form on the dedede boards. I look back now and realize that I didn't give much history or explanation where this actually came from. I'm in the process of evolving my guide to a more informative level. I hope that this helps you all.


    [​IMG]


    <_________________> <-- This is Final Destination

    x - symbolizes Dedede

    x - symbolizes opponent

    *Now obviously this is just a visual so it's not going to be 100% accurate. I will try to make this as easy to understand as possible.

    Step 1[SIZE=2]: Postition yourself similar to the diagram after the down throw.
    [/SIZE]
    Note: This can be done on ANY stage! FD is just used as and example




    <_x_X_______X_ x_>
    \
    _____________/

    *They should be on the ground either on the left or right side of the stage, and you should be facing them



    Step 2: Start charging a down smash.

    <_
    x_
    _X_____X__ x_>
    \
    _____________/

    The result - you lean back during the charge and although this diagram doesn't show you directly, you're out of harms way during the down smash charge, when released, Dedede leans forward to the neutral position again.

    These locations, in my experience are death zones. So anyway when your opponent has failed to tech and they are in these positions, get ready to orgasm. Vids WILL BE UP OF THIS used in my tourney matches.
    I've been keeping this to myself for awhile but have told a select few people about it like Omegablackmage.

    Notice this scenario, your opponent is on the ground, and your just far enough away from them to get hit by their get up attack? Well stay tuned, because this is an insane way around their attack plus a 100% guaranteed Down Smash.

    [SIZE=3]The crucial ingredient to why this works and through hours of development and testing:[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=2]In this situation, wait until you see a frame of motion from your opponent, and begin charging a Down SMASH. Here's something many of you probably don't know
    [/SIZE]
    [COLOR=Silver][SIZE=2] [FONT=System][B][U]King Dedede leans back when he charges a down smash[/U][/B][/FONT][/SIZE] [/COLOR]


    [SIZE=6][SIZE=3]

    [/SIZE][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=3][COLOR=Silver] They can't do anything to get around this.
    [SIZE=2]
    -If they roll to the edge, the end of the stage prevents them from getting their complete distance of their roll, and the tip of the hammer will nick them if you've spaced yourself correctly.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=2]-If they roll to you, release the smash (the spin guarantees 100% precision).[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=2]-If they get up in place, they should get hit by the solid middle of the hammer

    -If they get up attack, it will miss due to the lean back animation thanks to the charge of the down smash
    [/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE]

    Reviews

    lain ~ "Buuman trap is rape."

    PC Chris ~ "Im glad I didn't play you :)"

    Fatal ~
    buumann has the best d3 hands down in NE and maybe better than atomsk

    sMexy-Blu ~
    "The enemy can't avoid it thats why its called "The Buuman Trap" lolz"

    T3h Albino ~
    "Use the buuman trap ***** works"

    RATED ~ "
    I am using the Buuman's trap , I started to use it against human players yesterday and it works wonders. thanks buuman."

    Jupz ~ "
    it works well :D I just gotta learn how to space it well :D"

    TheMnm ~ "Great guide [​IMG] The Buuman Trap looks promising."

    Semifer ~ "The Buuman trap is broken"




    Sec. III

    Tricks, Tips, facts, and/or Statistics


    Facts


    -Dedede weight is 1.071(4th heaviest)

    -Dedede Horizontal Air Speed is 2.10 (slowest)

    -Dedede Fall Speed is 0.29 (relatively fast)


    -Fully charged jet hammer damages you up to 150%

    -Footstooling someone in the air onto the stage forces them to stand up in place

    -Inhale with no spit (your opponent must be resisting) takes away up bs like snake, GW, and sonic.

    -Press A 4 times to initiate the third jab of Dedede's jab combo.

    Cool Up Tilt Facts

    ~Most importantly, up tilt has invincibility frames if you connect with it, during the first half of the animation

    -Up tilt can break any projectile (Grenades {Which blow up, without causing damage to dedede due to invincibility}, thunder shock, aura sphere, fire balls, bombs and so much more) to the half way point where dedede flails his head from front to back

    -Up tilt can jump over olimars grab, meta knights down smash, and other moves that are low to the ground. This has to be done when dedede does the jumping part animation of the up tilt.

    -Up tilt, if timed right can protect you from the lava wave on norair

    Tips
    (NEW!)

    Inhale has an invisible hitbox that takes away momentum. Against snake, if he tries to C4 recover, go above him and inhale. Not so that you suck him up, but so it takes away momentum from his C4 blast. I will go into depth with this later. But you can literally be 10 feet above snake (nowhere near him) and use the inhale invisible hitbox to stop his c4 recovery.
    *You must be directly above snake for this to work

    Dedede falls so fast (Fastest faller in the game) that short hop air dodging, or fast falling air dodging into up tilts/grabs works wonders.

    Crouch into up tilt has no lag and can evade items thrown such as grenades and evades aerials above platforms like GWs dair


    *Tricks*

    Running Z grab - Run towards any item on the ground, release the control stick as you approach and press Z.
    Effect: You will pick up the item during a run.
    Note: You must initiate Dededes running animation, and not his fox trot, once you get past the initial acceleration and reach top velocity, this trick can be put to effect.

    Swallow Spike
    - Near the edge, if you're opponent is grabbing the ledge, and you think they're going to do a ledge hop arial, space the inhale so that if they jump up, they're going to get inhaled.
    Effect: If they performed an arial during the ascend of their ledge hop, and the arial comes out before they reach the horizontal of the stage, the invsible inhale htbox pulls them and spikes them up into the stage.

    Double Jump Dair - Tap jump twice in quick succession and immediately tap down on the C stick to initiate the dair.
    Effect: Zero landing lag, covers dedede pretty well, protecting him from most punishment. It's quite mobile, keeps the head of the hammer close enough to the ground to land all of the hit, but at the same time, far enough away from the ground to protect from landing lag like the short hop dair.




    Grab Laws


    *If you shield grab chain grab perfectly, you will get more grabs/chain grabs off overall.
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204082&page=2

    *If you down throw immediately after a re grab during the chain grab, the sliding animation will be negated

    *If you want to change the distance of the slide during a chain grab, wait a minimal amount of time between dash grabs, OR grab attack during the chain grab, you will get the same effect.

    *If you input a grab during your running animation you will dash grab. It MUST be finished in order to do a standing grab, this includes the ending part of the dash animation, when Dedede slows down.



    Range of Dededes grabs


    Longest reach
    - Pivot Grab
    (Does not count as a dash grab for grab releases)

    Mid reach
    - Standing Grab

    Shortest reach
    - Dash Grab
    (Good for air grab releases ex.'Wario')



    Physics and Applications of Waddle Dees and Doos

    Side B
    Notes - You will auto pick up Waddle Dees and Doos when you are near them if: You press Jab, F tilt, D tilt, and if you air dodge near it. YOU CAN UP TILT WADDLES without worrying about auto picking up

    -Waddles (Dees(5%), and Doos
    (7%)) can be angled up or down by rolling the control stick up or down after the initial side B input

    -Waddles'
    (Dees(5%), and Doos(7%)) distance can be changed by tilting/smashing the control stick during the side B input.



    A Few Safe Ledge Options

    Get-up attack after 100% -
    10% damage, Invincibility frames, crazy range, and decent hit stun


    Ledge Hop Up air-
    (Let go of the ledge, use a jump and up air simultaneously)
    Up air nails them for 19%, and you can re grab the ledge, using the stage as a shield)


    Ledge Jump Dair
    (From the ledge, input the jump command, and down air simultaneously)
    -You will provide a damaging shield between you and your opponent, if they're near the ledge



    FRAME DATA and PERCENTS


    2-20 - Invincibility frames duration
    ~ 25 - Total number of frames

    Spot Dodge
    2-20 ~ 27

    Back Roll
    4-19 ~ 32

    Foward Roll
    4-19 ~ 32

    Air Dodge

    4-29 ~ 39


    1st Jab
    Fresh - 6%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%

    Second Jab
    Fresh - 5%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%

    Third Jab
    Fresh - 2% per spin
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 1% per spin

    Forward Tilt
    (12 frames)
    Fresh - 6%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%

    Down Tilt
    (7 frames)
    Fresh - 10%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 4%

    Up Tilt (12 frames)
    Fresh - 12%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 5%

    Dash Attack
    (26 frames)
    Fresh - 16%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 7%

    Forward Air
    (16 frames)
    Fresh - 15%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 6%

    Up Air
    (10 frames)
    Fresh (every hit) - 19%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 8%

    Down Air
    (8 frames)
    Fresh (every hit) - 17%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 7%

    Back Air
    (6 frames)
    Fresh - 13%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 5%


    Neutral Air (7 frames)
    1st part (fresh) - 12% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 5%
    2nd part (fresh) - 7% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 3%

    Forward Smash (43 frames)
    Middle of Hammer /fresh/[UNCHARGED] - 24% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 11%
    Middle of Hammer /fresh/[CHARGED] - 33% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 15%

    Ground wave /fresh/[UNCHARGED] - 5% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%
    Ground wave /fresh/[CHARGED] - 7% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 3%

    Up Smash (20 frames)
    Fresh[UNCHARGED] - 14% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 6%
    Fresh[CHARGED] - 19% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 9%

    Down Smash (14 frames)
    Fresh[UNCHARGED] - 15% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 6%
    Fresh[CHARGED] - 21% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 9%

    Neutral B (Inhale)
    Fresh - 10%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 4%

    Side B

    Fresh (Waddle Dee) - 5%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%
    Fresh (Waddle Doo) - 7%
    Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 3%
    \
    \------> Doo Beam does 30% (if every hit connected)



    Fresh (Gordo) - 26% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 10%





    Characters that can chain grab King Dedede

    Falco
    Down Throw
    -> 54%


    Pikachu
    Down Throw -> 90+%


    Wario
    ->Standing infinite boost grab
    Dthrow, boost Dthrow until around 192%

    Ice Climbers
    D-Throw / F-Throw / B-Throw -> Any move
    ->Infinite ( The D-throw chaingrab is NOT an Infinite)


    Lucario
    Side-B -> 52%


    Marth

    F-Throw -> Dash Attack / Fair / Nair /Dair
    -> 50%


    Yoshi
    Grab Release -> Fair
    ->Infinite


    Bowser
    Grab Release -> Neutral A/Side B
    ->Infinite


    King Dedede
    Down Throw->Ftilt
    ->Any %




    Wall Infinites/Chain Grabs



    Marth
    Dtilt
    ->%??


    Metaknight
    Dtilt
    ->%?


    Mr. Game and Watch
    Dtilt
    ->%?


    Donkey Kong
    Dtilt->%?
    Similar to Marths



    Ledge Infinites/Chain Grabs

    *These infinites can be performed at a ledge of a stage or platform.

    King Dedede

    Down Throw-> Infinite, down tilt, etc.

    Donkey Kong
    Down throw -> Infinite, down tilt, down smash

    Wolf
    Down throw -> Infinite, down tilt

    Bowser
    Down Throw -> Down tilt, down smash, side B

    Yoshi
    Down throw -> down tilt

    Snake
    Down Throw -> Down tilt


    Attacks that cause tripping


    *Less than or equal to means "<="

    Down tilt - <= 18%
    Bair - <= 10%
    Down B (Uncharged) - Between 10-15%
    Foward air - Between 10-14%




    Projectiles that the F tilt negates


    Pits' Arrows

    Ice Blocks


    Pikachus' Thunder Shock


    Razor leaf


    Diddy's
    Peanuts

    Aura sphere {CHARGED and UNCHARGED}
    (Dedede can F tilt a fully charged aura sphere when lucario is at 38% and its fresh)

    Fireballs


    Ness and Lucas'
    PK Fire and PK thunder

    Boomerangs


    Arrows
    (Link and Toon Link)

    Samus' Charge beam
    (Uncharged)

    Samus' Missles



    Super Armor


    -Inhale has super armor frames during the initial suck up animation!
    -Up tilt has invincibility, that is triggered when you connect with it during the beginning of the animation up until his head inflates.

    -Up B has super armorframes up until his velocity has reached zero (Until he has reached the peak of his Up B)


    Objects that can be inhaled


    *Snakes' grenades, and his proximity Mine (Glitch)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya8dhMpspHQ

    *ROBs' GYRO(Charged and uncharged)

    *Warios' Bike (and pieces)

    *Zero suit samus' Armor Pieces

    *Diddy Kongs' [COLOR=Silver][U]Bananas [/U]
    [COLOR=Red]
    [/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Red]*King Dededes'[/COLOR][COLOR=Sienna][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver]Waddle dees [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver]and [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Sienna][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver]Waddle doos[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Red]([/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Red][U]NOT GORDOS![/U][/COLOR]:mad:[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Red])[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver]
    [COLOR=Magenta]
    [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Magenta]*Peachs' [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Sienna][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Magenta][COLOR=Silver]turnips[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Magenta][COLOR=Silver]
    [COLOR=SeaGreen]
    *[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Magenta][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=SeaGreen][COLOR=Lime]Toon Link[/COLOR] [COLOR=Silver]and[/COLOR] [COLOR=Lime]Links'[/COLOR] [COLOR=Silver][U][B]bombs[/B][/U][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=Red][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=Magenta][COLOR=Silver][COLOR=SeaGreen][COLOR=Silver]
    [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]

    Sec. V

    Follow ups from down throw

    Snake - *
    Only fthrow snake off stage when youre in a position where you wont be able to edgeguard him after the downthrow because he'll slide to the ledge

    IF SNAKE...

    Double jumps right away either straight up or away from the stage - F-tilt his Second jump (forcing him to Up B) edge guard him or WoP him with Forward airs and Back airs.

    Up Bs Close to you - cyhper grab him

    Double Jumps towards you - grab him which forces him to Up B, and grab him a last time out of his Up B

    Jumps to ledge (too high for any grab follow ups) - D tilt his Second jump then rape him accordingly.

    *If snake starts jumping to the ledge perfectly, run and grab the ledge, he falls and is forced to up+b then edge guard.



    Most characters can be F tilted after a down throw

    The characters that
    can't are:
    Jigglypuff
    Luigi
    Kirby
    Squirtle


    Characters that can be D tilted at the edge (after a down throw)


    Snake
    King Dedede
    Donkey Kong
    Wolf
    Yoshi
    R.O.B.
    Bowser
    Charizard
    Samus
    Ivysaur


    NOTE: Some characters can DI up and jump or even Up b out of his down throw


    Here's a list of Characters that can DI/jump/attack/or B special out of it
    (With respect to a missed tech of course)


    Squirtel
    - Can DI up and Jump out

    G&W - DI up Jump and Up B out

    Zero Suit Samus
    - DI up and Down B out

    Kirby
    - DI up and jump out


    Sec. VI
    Vertical Data
    Up Tilt Killing Percents with DI

    (Tested in the direct center of FD, with best DI possible, and best option for momentum canceling with each character)



    META KNIGHT - DIES at 100% DIES at Halberd at 93%

    Pikachu - DIES at 107%

    FALCO
    - DIES at 109%

    Snake - DIES at 132%

    Mr. GAME & WATCH
    - DIES at 98%

    Olimar
    - DIES at 103%

    Marth
    - DIES at 110%

    Toon link - DIES at 109%

    Diddy Kong - DIES at 111%

    Kirby - DIES at 99%






    Killing up with Dedede, stage choices, and ceiling heights
    (I just picked out, organized and simplified it down for Dedede players)

    Percent damage required to be killed by a fully-charged Mario up-smash on Final Destination; Mario up-smash was chosen due to its large and low hitbox, along with almost straight vertical knockback.
    99%


    Uncharged Up-Smash Killing Power, Grounded Opponent
    (Dedede performed a C-stick uncharged up-smash on Mario immediately in front of him; the percentage required to kill on Final Destination is given
    109% (103% for u-tilt)

    Charged Up-Smash Killing Power, Grounded Opponent
    (Dedede performed a fully charged up-smash on Mario immediately in front of him; the percentage required to kill on Final Destination is again given.)
    72%

    Uncharged Up-Smash Killing Power, Aerial Opponent
    Dedede performed a C-stick uncharged up-smash on Mario immediately above him on right-side platform of Battlefield; the percentage required to kill is given:
    100 (95 for u-tilt...)
    %

    Charged Up-Smash Killing Power, Aerial Opponent:
    D3 performed a full charged up-smash on Mario immediately above him on right-side platform of Battlefield; the percentage required to kill is again given.
    65%

    Up-Aerial Killing Power
    D3 performed short-hop up-air, dair, and Up B on Mario immediately above them on right-side platform of Battlefield; the percentage required to kill is given.
    143
    % - Up air
    143% - Down air
    95% - Up B





    Stage Ceiling Height

    (highest to lowest, from bottom platform)
    (Amount of damage required for grounded Mario to be KO'd by an undiminished, fully charged Mario up-smash. Less damage needed = lower ceiling. Damages/heights are listed for major platforms as well on some stages, in ascending order. Some stages that were difficult (like Delfino) were not closely examined, and some stages no one cares about were skipped entirely.)

    Jungle Japes: 100/97/93 <---bad stage for D3 IMO, sinks in water, water helps foes recovery, and can't kill with up tilt here, nor edge guard
    Pirate Ship: 85
    Havenbow: 85
    Pictochat: 84
    Pokemon Stadium 2: 83/75

    Battlefield: 82/75/68
    FD: 82
    Delfino: 82
    Norfair: 82/74/67
    Yoshi's Island: 82/75
    Lylat Cruise: 82/74
    Castle Siege: 82-88-81
    Smashville: 82/74
    Frigate: 81-77
    Brinstar: 81/74/68

    Halberd: 77/75/68-73/65 <-- awesome stage for dedede

    Rainbow Ride: 75
    Corneria: 74/70/57


    *Credit goes to Thinkman





    [SIZE=3]Thanks,
    Hope this helped
    [COLOR=Pink]

    [COLOR=Silver]

    [/COLOR] [/COLOR]
    [/SIZE]


























  2. Vayseth

    Vayseth Smash Champion

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    For the record there are a lot more than 4 options out of down throw on the 12 non-chaingrabbable characters.

    1. Tech
    2. Tech and roll left
    3. Tech and roll right

    There's also the chance that they do not even land at all. Kirby is floaty so he tends to be able to air dodge before landing, almost everytime making him land without even hitting the ground (if he does this, it's a free grab, but still... it's an option). I'm not sure if it is just kirby but I know in some situations G+W and up B before hitting the ground and can't be tech chased at all.

    Honestly, out of the 3 major down throw tech chases (Snake, G+W, D3) D3's has the most options for the opponent. G+W has 7 (tech, tech roll left, tech roll right, stand up, roll left, roll right, get up attack), Snake only has 4 (roll left, roll right, stand up, get up attack) and 3 of the 4 options have guaranteed f-tilts, not to mention other set ups including regrab, punches, grenades, etc.

    It's a common misconception that D3's tech chase is really good/easy to do, when it has one of the most options for the opponent in the game.





    ....but good stuff XD
  3. Miles.

    Miles. Smash Champion

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    I play piccolo king ddd, rockin the green.
  4. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    lmao Vay, I thought I put in there, if they don't tech. They only have 4 options when they hit the ground, this isn't counting teching. Alot of characters can DI up out of D3s down throw, like GW and up B, but once they do it once, if they try it again, they take an up air to the face, like OBM has learned a few times playing me. This isnt a misconception by me. I will clarify in my edit if the tech is missed. Snake has the best tech chase game hands down btw. But yeah for the record, if chars DI up and some away, they can jump before they hit the ground, but this is only for Tech chasing.
  5. L-T!

    L-T! Smash Apprentice

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    Now I know what to look out for. :D thanks!
  6. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Ah, but it's impossible to avoid if you're in the dead zone. :p
  7. L-T!

    L-T! Smash Apprentice

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    I'm going to find some way around it. I know you think I can't, but you forget.... I'm L-T baby, I do what I want!
  8. sMexy-Blu

    sMexy-Blu Smash Lord

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    Really nice but I still don't get "The Buuman Trap" but still pretty cool.
    forgot about some Follow-ups after the CG like the Ftilt and CG offstage to Fair

    Only G&W and Squirtle can DI Up to not hit the ground.

    G&W and Marth can Up B to avoid hitting the ground and ZSS can use Down B.
  9. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Thanks for the info, it will be added.

    The trap...how can I put this...if your opponent is laying on the ground between the edge of the stage and between dedede, start charging a downsmash...d3 leans back out of the way during the charge...in turn evading everyone get up attack, but at the same time...able to land a d smash 100% of the time.
  10. daisho

    daisho Smash Lord

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    What if they just get up and shield. Isn't that quicker than Dsmash?
  11. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Lmao, how is that quicker than down smash...you down wait...you have to move up and space yourself correctly..then begin charging, the release is very fast, when they get up...there is slight lag, and slight lag before applying the shield, so yes you have time to hit them with the down smash. I've done it so much the timing is easy for me. It will take practice for newcomers to the technique though, I understand that, and feel free to ask more questions.
  12. KrazyGlue

    KrazyGlue Smash Debater

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    Yeah... if you timed it right you would hit them first. And if you timed it wrong, you could probably just step up and grab them (unless they powershielded).
  13. sMexy-Blu

    sMexy-Blu Smash Lord

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    I forgot that ZSS can scape being Tech Chased by DI'ing upwards and using Down B, I edited my post so please add that.
  14. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Added ;)
    Also clarified the trap a little bit better, altered the visual a bit.

    I need more feedback and critique, any suggestions on what to add?
  15. Vayseth

    Vayseth Smash Champion

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    WOW, that's a lot of new stuff. I'll have to get back to you... O.o
  16. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Haha, but yeah try to get more peeps checking this thread out. It's gonna be just a big data base of Dedede strats, tournament reads, and essentials to make D3 rape
  17. CO18

    CO18 Smash Hero

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    I don't get what you're saying about marth, you're not talking about the cg right? Because thats inescapable.
  18. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Thanks for catching that. The Up B is completely irrelevant and is only used to HELP escape CGs, I was half asleep when I put this up this morning, the marth part anyway.

    *edit - removing

    -thanks CO
  19. CO18

    CO18 Smash Hero

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    Vs Snake Down throw him at ledge.

    If Snake Double jumps right away either straight up or away from the stage. F-tilt his 2nd jump which forces him to up+b then wop with fairs/bairs or cyhper grab him if he up+bs close to you.

    If Snake double Jumps towards you grab him which forces him to up+b then do the same thing.

    If snake tries to jump to ledge and is jumping a tiny bit too high, dtit his 2nd jump then rape him accordingly.

    If snake starts jumping to the ledge perfectly, run and grab the ledge, he falls and is forced to up+b then just wop him.

    Only fthrow snake off stage when youre in a position where you wont be able to edgeguard him after the downthrow because hell slide to the ledge

    Then of course down throw to dtilt if hes at a high %
  20. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    This is kinda the basics for raping snake with dedede, but I realize I do this naturally, I keep forgetting I should put this in laments terms as a whole for certain community members. I'll add this ;)
  21. CO18

    CO18 Smash Hero

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    Yea, I see alot of Dededes just try to fthrow and bair snake or wait for him to get back to the stage and grab him though lol
  22. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    lmao, yeah. Usually you can rape snake off the stage if you've spaced yourself right during the CG. What's fun is falling down with snake and baiting the air dodge, and just getting a bair off. Usually when snake recovers from above.

    So CO, what are we gonna do about Meta knight xD
  23. CO18

    CO18 Smash Hero

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    I dunno I dont mind MK much, only one in my area thats worrisome is seibrik. And hes prob one of the best mks overall vs d3 since he also mains d3 and plays alot of them since we have alot in fl. I guess overall we're about even in D3 vs MK. He won last tourney 3-0 and 3-2(winners and grands) then 2 tourneys before that Ive won 2-0. He also beat atomsk in 2 mms Mk vs D# who beats basically every mk he plays so in general besides like m2k and teh spammerer hes prob next best mk(Vs D3 in particular).

    Just alot of grabbing, and bairing, dtilting/up tilting nado.

    I did some dumb things though in my last set vs him like I kept airdodging after his mk down throw and he kept punishing me for it, I wasnt shield tilting nado for some reason, once in nado I wasnt DIing out well like I usually do and I was getting punished while recovering worse than usual.

    Gotta fix those things
  24. RATED

    RATED Smash Lord

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    I saw a kirby from PR DI'ing up to not hit the ground. I am very sure. if someone can test that or know this for sure too , then tell this can be useful or helpful.

    BTW- Buuman nice thread ! I been a bit occupied this days and I came back and looked at this thread, great info I wish u luck with this thread.
  25. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    It's all good. I talked to M2K about the match up. BAN LYLAT AGAINST MK. Best stage for MK against D3 IMO. Also it's quite difficult to DI the tornado. Both me and Atomsk, as well as M2K Mash jump and smash DI Up and away. It seems to work on occasion, plus u may get a foot stool.

    EDIT: Added some Inhale Data

    RATED - Thanks man, also I will verify kirby right now. ;)

    RE EDIT
    RATED! - Just tested, Kirby can DI up and jump out, thanks a ton brotha, adding that right now.
  26. sMexy-Blu

    sMexy-Blu Smash Lord

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    Why does the tripping data has its own section? Its not that important you can add it under the "Tricks, Tips, Statistic" section just like you added Super Armor.

    Also you are the missing the most basic follow-up after a Dthrow THE FTILT!!

    And the FF Fair or Bair after a CG offstage.

    Heres a list of the characters than can't be hit by Ftilt after a Dthrow

  27. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Those are all common sense, but I can add them. Fast fall Fair, doesnt always work, neither does a bair. But I will add the F tilt.
  28. Sensei Seibrik

    Sensei Seibrik Smash Hero

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    CO18 you *****!!!



    that was my snake rape data! i gave u that in confidense!

    lolol im not mad u gave it out, just give me the dam credit.



    I am the snake killler afterall :D
  29. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    :O

    CO18...is this true? lol
  30. CO18

    CO18 Smash Hero

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    There was one option snake had that I wasn't sure what to do to punish and seibrik told me, everything else I knew beforehand lol

    I didn't say "Snake tactics'" I developed was just general information
    I was just trying to help the thread im sure others already knew about them such as buuman...

    Seibrik just wants to be the only snake killer :laugh:

    Don't worry seibrik noone rapes snake "as badly" as you yet

    Edit: I don't even think I posted the thing I asked seibrik about... lol
  31. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    ahahahaha, too funny. Theres a good chance he may get sick of MK. I did lol :embarrass
  32. Sensei Seibrik

    Sensei Seibrik Smash Hero

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    nahhhh im having tooooo much fun with him at the moment...
  33. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Ahahaha. Everytime I would go to a tourney, my conscious always said..."Usssssse.....Metaaa..kniiiightt"

    But after awhile I just felt bad for pwning everyone. It just old..plus I didnt feel as goo when I won with MK
  34. RATED

    RATED Smash Lord

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    u are welcome, btw I do the footstool on nado I DI to the center of nado when I am on in the middle I start DI'ing up and mashing jump is more sure way if u DI at the start to the center. it works to me like 90% of the time.
  35. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Massive update today
  36. L-T!

    L-T! Smash Apprentice

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    I'm going to find a way out of your trap. It just might take some time.
  37. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Would it be helpful if I put in the full decay of moves in here?
  38. 4rce04

    4rce04 Smash Lord

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    Good thread, nice work
    =]
  39. Buuman

    Buuman Smash Ace

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    Thanks man,

    SOON TO COME:

    -Anti Meta knight Strategies and some video footage!
    *also expect some more data input this weekend as well as some fixing of the thread

    :)
  40. Doomblaze

    Doomblaze Smash Journeyman

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