1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 225,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

  3. We recently relaunched the Events system on Smashboards Guest! Most notably you'll now be able to filter events by the games featured, and their proximity to you.

    Check out all the details.

  4. Right now the Smash Controller is on sale for $23 on Amazon! Get the Smash GameCube Controller now!

  5. Use the Smashboards Store to get awesome Smash stuff and support the site, like a Nintendo Controller or the Wii U - Gamecube adaptor ! Check out the inventory in our store and support Smashboards with your purchase today!

DACUS and YOU! ; A general guide on DACUS timings, applications, and other information

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ItsRainingGravy, Dec 25, 2013.

  1. ItsRainingGravy

    ItsRainingGravy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    Alabama
    Scroll down this post if you wish to see character specific DACUS information.
    Wiki page for DACUS: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Dash_attack_canceled_up_smash

    Hello everyone! Welcome to the general DACUS information thread! This thread will discuss all things about DACUS for every character that is able to perform it; from how to do a DACUS, how to more efficiently time a DACUS with a specific character (since it varies slightly), DACUS statistics and "average success rates", and anything else worth mentioning. Let's get started!

    Also as of right now, this post will only cover DACUS techniques that can be performed using the GAMECUBE controller. In the future, information regarding other controllers will be covered. Apologies in advanced.

    To start off, what exactly is a DACUS? It is an abbreviation that stands for "Dash Attack Canceled Up Smash", and is sometimes referred to as a "Boost Smash". And that's what it essentially is. It is a technique that uses the momentum of a dash attack and gives it to a character's Up Smash, by using their Up Smash to cancel the Dash Attack animation. The next big question: How is it performed? Well, look no further! These helpful video guides below (not made by me) will get you started!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y_CHWI4IXSw#t=118
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v5cy6uqC0Os#t=18
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghHDx3BYf7M
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlGIl27bJQM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI0_LanROgk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5a-3KyoX4U
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Q2gfVEf0k


    Now then, what we have learned from these videos is the command for a DACUS is:

    1) Dash left or right. (Dash)
    2) Press down on the C-Stick. C-Left and C-Right can also be used, though C-Down is the preferred input. (C-Down. The C-Stick needs to return to a neutral position for a successful DACUS.)
    3) Rotate the control stick up. (R-Up)
    4) Press the grab button. (Z)

    *take note that all of this MUST be done in quick succession, otherwise the DACUS will fail*


    Seems simple enough, right? Well, what if I said that there was an even more effective way to DACUS than what was mentioned? And, remember how I said that different characters have different timings? This is where we get into the meat and potatoes of this topic! So while DACUS is commonly known for the input shown above, this is even more effective:

    1) Dash
    2) C-Down
    3) R-Up
    4) Mash the attack button. If this is too hard to do, change one of your shoulder buttons to be attack instead of shield. (Attack or "AR")


    In general, most characters will have the easiest time performing their DACUS using the above command. Why change the Grab input to an Attack input, you ask? Well, changing Grab to Attack actually grants you one more frame in order to perform a DACUS, and for certain characters it is the only way to perform their DACUS at all. But even with this improved command in place, some characters still might have difficulty performing their DACUS. So, without further ado, let's take a look at character-specific DACUS smashes!

    [collapse=Key, READ THIS FIRST]Character and DACUS input: Self-explanatory. What I mean by DACUS input is the input that I find yields the most success when trying to perform a character's DACUS. This will vary from character to character, and may change over time.

    Grab for DACUS: Yes or no answer. What this means is that a character can use the Grab button for their DACUS. Some characters can ONLY use their DACUS with an Attack button, which may require you to change your controls for effective DACUS inputs.

    Timing: How fast the DACUS input needs to be to yield the highest success rate. Note that while all DACUS smashes need to be performed rather quickly, just how fast you need to input the DACUS can still vary. Measured using "Fast", "Really Fast", and "Super Fast". Also has frame data.

    Length: Simple enough. This will be measured in two ways: How many "squares" a DACUS will travel, and how far it will go on Final Destination. Final Destination is around 16 squares in length. The "squares" I will be referring to are the square tiles in the new Training Room stage (the one with sandbag in the middle).

    Distance Gained: How much distance is gained when using a DACUS compared to a normal Up Smash immediately after dashing.

    Success Rate: Measured "Low", "High, and "Very High". The success rate that I usually have when trying to perform the character's DACUS. This will vary from person to person based on their preferences, but this will still be posted to give a general idea on how difficult it is to perform a character's DACUS...at least from my perspective. THIS VALUE WILL BE BASED ON USING THE ATTACK BUTTON INSTEAD OF THE GRAB BUTTON, as not all characters can perform a DACUS using the Grab button. Additionally, using the Attack button yields a higher success rate anyways.

    Viability: Measured using "A", "B", and "C"...with A being the best, and C being the worst. My personal opinion of how good a character's DACUS is in actual combat; after factoring how useful the character's Up Smash actually is, how far the DACUS travels, and how easy it is to consistently pull off in an actual match. How useful you actually find the DACUS in question to be is entirely up to you to decide, though.

    Other Notes: Anything else I might find useful to provide, such as hints on how to time the DACUS in question, to how safe the character's DACUS is, what situations you would prefer to use this DACUS in, and more.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Frame information about DACUS, from standardtoaster]3 frame jumpers and below cannot DACUS.

    4 frame jumpers have a 1 frame window to dacus with Attack. If you use Grab you will do a boost grab.

    5 frame jumpers have a 2 frame window to dacus with Attack and a 1 frame window to dacus with Grab

    6 frame jumpers have a 3 frame window to dacus with Attack and a 2 frame window to dacus with Grab.

    etc
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Jump Start frames for every character, from MonkUnit]
    Code:
    -------------------------------------
    Character       |  JumpStart
    -------------------------------------
    Bowser..........|     8
    Captain Falcon..|     4
    Charizard.......|     4
    Diddy Kong......|     4
    Donkey Kong.....|     5
    Falco...........|     5
    Fox.............|     3
    Ganondorf.......|     6
    Giga Bowser.....|     6
    Ice Climbers....|     3
    Ike.............|     5
    Ivysaur.........|     5
    Jigglypuff......|     5
    King Dedede.....|     6
    Kirby...........|     3
    Link............|     6
    Lucario.........|     3
    Lucas...........|     4
    Luigi...........|     4
    Mario...........|     4
    Marth...........|     4
    Meta Knight.....|     3
    Mewtwo..........|     5
    Mr. Game & Watch|     4
    Ness............|     4
    Olimar..........|     4
    Peach...........|     5
    Pikachu.........|     3
    Pit.............|     5
    R.O.B...........|     6
    Roy.............|     4
    Samus...........|     3
    Sheik...........|     3
    Snake...........|     5
    Sonic...........|     3
    Squirtle........|     4
    Toon Link.......|     3
    Wario...........|     5
    Wolf............|     4
    Yoshi...........|     5
    Zelda...........|     5
    Zero Suit Samus.|     4
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Falco] :falco:


    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 1-2 frames, Really Fast
    Length: 3 to 4 squares, up to 1/4 the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +1.5 to 2.5 squares
    Success Rate: High
    Viability: A

    Other Notes: A really fast and strong DACUS, capable in aiding in combos or used as a finisher. With a high success rate and remarkable speed, Falco's DACUS is just solid all-around. Timing is really simple. Just take it at a steady but brisk pace, and it should be easy to pull off. He sometimes likes to use his dash attack instead, but unlike most dash attacks Falco's isn't really too badly punishable if he accidentally uses it. Furthermore even if he does use a Dash Attack, you may be able to salvage it, since Falco is still capable of performing his Gatling Combo in Project M. While Falco certainly has bravado, he makes sure to back it up with skill and efficiency.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Ganondorf] :ganondorf:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, (Millisecond Pause), R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 2-3 frames, Fast
    Length: 4 to 5 squares, 1/4th to slightly less than 33.3% the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +3 to 4 squares
    Success Rate: Very High
    Viability: A

    Other Notes: Seeing Ganon gain an incredible burst of speed is not only hilarious, but incredibly frightening. As one of the easiest DACUS smashes to perform, and with its high horizontal and vertical killing power, Ganon's DACUS is a force to be reckoned with. Sure it is punishable, but it comes out surprisingly quick in comparison to its raw power. Ganon yields a higher success rate if you wait for a VERY brief time after mashing down on the C-Stick. Face the Demon King with caution should he know this technique: It is one of the best DACUS smashes around. Invoke his wrath if you dare.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Ike] :ike:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 1-2 frames, Really Fast
    Length: 4 squares, 1/4th the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +2.5 squares
    Success Rate: High
    Viability: B

    Other Notes: Despite the disjointed hitbox, distance Ike gains, and very high power; Ike's Up Smash is still very predictable due to its slow speed. Furthermore, Ike's DACUS is somewhat offset by the fact that he can just Jump Cancel his Quick Draw to perform an Up Smash that slides MUCH further. Regardless, this is one of the easiest DACUS smashes to do, and it's still a decent option whenever you feel as though you might slide too far by using Quick Draw. Just let your fingers flow like melted butter, and you should be able to pull his DACUS off. Be wary of his Dash Attack though: It is easily punishable if you mess up.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Jigglypuff] :jigglypuff:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 1-2 frames, Fast to Really Fast
    Length: 2 to 3 squares, 1/6th the length of Final Destination...on average
    Distance Gained: +1.5 to 2.5 squares
    Success Rate: Very High
    Viability: A

    Other Notes: Definitely the easiest DACUS to perform in the game, and this is good news for Jigglypuff. Not only does this mean that Jigglypuff is a really good character to begin practicing DACUS smashes with, but this also helps to improve her ground game...which is widely regarded as one of the worst out of all the characters. Her DACUS is moderately fast, though because of how easy it is to do, you can almost guarantee that you will always time it properly in an actual match. It is quick damage and sets up for aerial combos afterwards, and SHOULD you happen to mess up (which will most likely never happen), Jigglypuff has the ability to Gatling Combo after her Dash Attack. You can perform Jigglypuff's DACUS at almost any pace, so long as it is still relatively quick. She certainly is friendly to players with sore fingers!
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Link] :link2:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 2-3 frames, Fast
    Length: 2 to 4 squares, 1/8th to 1/4th the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +1 to 3 squares
    Success Rate: High
    Viability: B

    Other Notes: Link is a rather unpredictable fighter, with all of his gadgets and tools from his games. Much like Link himself, Link's DACUS is also quite unpredictable...at least, the distance it travels and the success rate, anyways. It can either go from not too far away, to a pretty fair distance depending on your timing. And while the DACUS is really easy to do, it is also really easy to accidentally use his HORRENDOUSLY PUNISHABLE Grab instead. I would definitely recommend players switch one of their shield buttons to attack if they decide to use Link's DACUS. The Up Smash itself covers him pretty well, but doesn't offer much afterwards, and is still quite punishable in certain matchups. Link's DACUS reminds us that while Courage is nice and all, you still need a little bit of Wisdom in order to be able to use it effectively.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Lucas] :lucas:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 1-2 frames, Fast to Really Fast
    Length: 6 squares, more than a 1/3rd the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +4 squares
    Success Rate: Very High
    Viability: A

    Other Notes: What do you get when you combine the second easiest DACUS to do in the game (behind Jigglypuff's), one of the strongest and most disjointed Up Smashes in the game, and the ability to make said Up Smash EVEN STRONGER by being able to charge it with Neutral B? You get an absolute monster on your hands. Capable of even putting Ganon's power to shame sometimes, Lucas is most certainly a force to be reckoned with. Not to mention he slides far. Like, REALLY far. The one weakness of this DACUS is that it is very punishable on shield and if you miss, but in the hands of a master, Lucas's DACUS can easily seal the fate of any opponent. Much like in his own game, Lucas is easily capable of creating an apocalypse...
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Marth] :marth:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: No
    Timing: 0-1 frame, Super Fast
    Length: 6 squares, more than a 1/3rd the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +4 squares
    Success Rate: Low
    Viability: C

    Other Notes: Marth's Falchion looks a lot like a needle, and in that same vein, finding situations where you want to use Marth's DACUS is like finding a needle in a haystack. Sure, it's fast and it goes far, but his Up Smash goes straight up...meaning that you pretty much have to be a psychic to know the PERFECT time to pull it off. Speaking of pulling it off, good luck. It is one of the hardest DACUS smashes to time, and REQURES you to use an Attack button. And if you happen to fail, you'll most likely end up with a poorly spaced Dash Attack instead. And as every good Marth player knows, Marth is all about proper spacing. Rather than trying to cherry-pick the perfect DACUS, Marth is usually better off using one of his other options in almost every situation.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Mr. Game and Watch] :gw:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: No
    Timing: 0-1 frame, Super Fast
    Length: 5 to 6 squares, around 33.3% the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +3.5 to 4.5 squares
    Success Rate: Low
    Viability: C

    Other Notes: Game and Watch has always been a character that has been about high risk and high reward. True to his fashion, his DACUS is no different. It hits really hard, but is also really hard to time, on top of being slow. It can easily catch a player off-guard, and can potentially score a KO, but it is almost definitely a once-per-match type of move. Once it is seen, the opponent will probably never be vulnerable to it again. Overall you are better off using Game and Watch's other options, but if you are willing to take a huge gamble, this DACUS could win you a match (albeit a very slim chance). Lastly, while his Dash Attack is really slow and easily punishable, he can Gatling Combo out of it. Not that this matters much, as the distance Game and Watch's DACUS travels will almost always leave you out of reach for being able to Gatling Combo anyways.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Peach] :peach:

    Input: Dash, Hold Forward + C-Down, (Half a Millisecond Pause), R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 1-2 frames, Really Fast
    Length: 3 squares, slightly less than 20% the distance of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +2.5 squares
    Success Rate: High
    Viability: A

    Other Notes: Peach has a really solid, and graceful DACUS. While it certainly isn't the strongest or easiest, her elegant performance will be sure to make opponent's bow to her command. In order to get the DACUS off just right, it is best to continue holding forward while pressing C-Down; and after pressing C-Down, wait for a VERY SMALL split-second (less than Ganon's DACUS timing) before mashing Up and then Attack. Her dancing steps may need some adjusting to, but it certainly pays off when you get it. Her DACUS doesn't go too far, but just far enough. It is similar to Marth's DACUS, but the flub hits are better...they allow for aerial combos at later percents. And the fact that she doesn't go too far is a good thing, since it allows much greater control for landing the sweet spot of her Up Smash; unlike Marth. It can land a few KO's when sweetspotted too, but not nearly as much as heavy hitters such as Ganon and Lucas. Either way, despite the small drawbacks, it comes out rather quick. And even if you miss the timing, Peach's Dash Attack is among one of the best in the game, and it's pretty safe. Looks like Marth needs to take a few dance lessons from the Mushroom Kingdom Princess!
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=R.O.B.] :rob:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 1-2 frames, Really Fast
    Length: 4 squares, 1/4th the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +3 squares
    Success Rate: Very High
    Viability: A

    Other Notes: Most players might not realize that the Project M team snuck in this secret weapon along with all the other shiny new toys ROB has gotten. As probably the third easiest DACUS to perform in the game, ROB's DACUS is also one of the best in the game. Sporting high power, amazing speed, ease of use, and the ability to rake opponents into the stronger flame hitbox by using ROB's robotic arms; ROB's DACUS is certainly at the top of the class when it comes to efficiency. Aside from the occasional glitch that is ROB's quick dash grab, the coat of chrome polish that the Project M team has given ROB would make even The Jetsons green with futuristic envy.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Roy] :roypm:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: No
    Timing: 0-1 frame, Super Fast
    Length: 5 squares, slightly less than 33.3% the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +3.5 squares
    Success Rate: Low
    Viability: B

    Other Notes: Unlike his long lost cousin Marth, Roy might actually find some use with his DACUS. Being a multi-hitting attack, his scalding blade cares not for needles or haystacks, as it scoops up and engulfs anything in its wake. Sadly Roy's DACUS is still one of the hardest to time in the game, and it unfortunately doesn't go as far as Marth's does. Additionally, Roy's dash attack is still very punishable, and there's not much Roy can do after successfully hitting with his Up Smash. Regardless, the damage and sliding length is there for anyone who is able to master Roy's PH13R, and it might be the second best DACUS to use to punish a spot dodge (behind Wario's)...if you can manage to time it, that is.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Snake] :snake:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 1-2 frames, Really Fast
    Length: 4 squares, 1/4th the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +3 squares
    Success Rate: Very High
    Viability: A

    Other Notes: Snake proves that a soldier is ready and able to battle in any environment...including in an environment where he has seen his fair share of nerfs. Not only did he lose almost 50% of the range he used to have with his DACUS, but he can no longer perform a Gatling Combo as well. Despite this, Snake's DACUS is still one of the best in the game. The mortar still rakes people into the grenade it launches for additional damage, it still goes a good distance, and it is still very fast. Plus Snake isn't all about nerfs, as a true soldier adapts to his surroundings. His mortar shells can now be angled left or right, further adding to his tactical arsenal. And although he might accidentally throw out a dash attack or grab, neither are horrendously punishable...and in fact sometimes they can be quite helpful, even if they are accidentally used. Snakes have always been slippery fellows, after all! Though they are equally as deadly, so tread lightly around this seasoned war hero. He's prepared for anything.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Squirtle] :squirtle:

    Input: Dash, Turn Around, Jump, R-Up + Attack

    Grab for DACUS: No
    Timing: 0-1 frame?, Super Fast?
    Length: 7 to 10 squares, more than 1/2 the length of Final Destination.
    Distance Gained: +4 to 7 squares
    Success Rate: High
    Viability: A

    Other Notes: Fast, unpredictable, unexpected, and extremely deadly. This little ninja turtle doesn't have a true DACUS, though it pretty much has the same applications as one, so I will still count it. Squirtle's Hydroplaning technique will most certainly shell-shock you if you come unprepared for it. It slides RIDICULOUSLY FAR...sometimes the length of an entire stage depending on where you are at. It is more disjointed than Lucas's Up Smash, while still retaining a large amount of power and the added benefit of speed. It is probably Squirtle's greatest finishing move outside of his Down Throw, and the rare Aqua Jet canceled Withdraw (Side B). Timing it is a little tricky, though it helps if you hold down the jump button while pressing the A button. Once you got the hang of it though, you will surely begin to amass a tidal wave of KO's and swamp the competition. And if that wasn't enough, Squirtle's shellshifting techniques don't end there. You can get some MASSIVE horizontal air for aerials and Down B using Squirtle's unique ninja-like physics. Master Splinter will certainly be proud...
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Wario] :wario:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: Yes
    Timing: 1-2 frames, Really Fast to Super Fast
    Length: 4-5 squares, 1/4 to slightly less than 33.3% the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +3 to 4 squares
    Success Rate: Very High
    Viability: A

    Other Notes: Wario certainly is one tricky fellow. It looks as though he is going to Side B you, so you shield, only for you to get grabbed instead. Though the grab wasn't because he intentionally wanted to grab you, but because it was from a mistimed DACUS! Even if Wario's DACUS fails, he can still turn it into a positive note. Additionally, pulling it off successfully yields even greater rewards. It both sets up and extends combos, it comes out really fast and gives Wario a lot of speed, it travels far, and it is a multi-hitting move. Meaning that even if you spot-dodge, you are still probably going to get hit. All of that spinning on those stubby elf legs is probably not a good thing though, as it might cause a few dash attack accidents from time to time! But like any good thief, you got to be quick on your feet (and timing) if you plan on taking the gold. But when you do, Wario's greedy little sausage fingers will certainly get you your money's worth in KO's.
    [/collapse]
    [collapse=Wolf] :wolf:

    Input: Dash, C-Down, R-Up, Attack

    Grab for DACUS: No
    Timing: 0-1 frame, Super Fast
    Length: 5 squares, slightly less than 33.3% the length of Final Destination
    Distance Gained: +3.5 squares
    Success Rate: Low
    Viability: B

    Other Notes: Wolf, as a bounty hunter, is a very unforgiving fellow...especially to my fingers. After a long session of "CAN'T LET YOU DACUS THAT", I finally was able to get the timing down of Wolf's DACUS. And you essentially have to immediately time one input after another. Was it worth it in the end? Eh, somewhat. It can net a few KO's and catch an opponent off-guard should they try to roll behind you sometimes, though Wolf's Up Smash is kind of slow and not ESPECIALLY strong. Sometimes it is better to just use his dash attack to set up for aerial combos instead, or to not tear your fingers in half (though this can also happen with Marth/Roy/G&W). So while it isn't the most unappealing DACUS option there is, most of the time it is more-so bark rather than bite, as Wolf's other tools usually get the job done without it. At the very least you get a fair amount of range if you pull it off, though.
    [/collapse]

    If a character hasn't been mentioned, then their DACUS doesn't travel a very noticeable distance further than their regular dashing up smash. This includes Sheik, who lost her DACUS from Brawl.
     
    #1 ItsRainingGravy, Dec 25, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  2. ItsRainingGravy

    ItsRainingGravy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    Alabama
    Reserved post.
     
  3. trash?

    trash?
    Expand Collapse
    witty/pretty

    • Premium
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2012
    Messages:
    3,455
    Location:
    vancouver bc
    NNID:
    ????
    you mention it only vaguely, but for quick note: any 1-frame DACUS is impossible with a grab button, b/c the grab button will always require one extra frame to work with. this is why you can't DACUS with GnW, IIRC (though, this might also have relation to the fact that a DACUS can be cancelled into a dash grab in some fancy way, a more knowledgeable GnW player could explain a thousand times better than I could)
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  4. guedes the brawler

    guedes the brawler
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    Location:
    Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
    NNID:
    Rafabrawl
    thanks! I was actually having trouble with pulling those techs off.
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  5. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
    Expand Collapse
    Speed isn't enough. You gotta have technique too.

    • Moderator
    • Premium
    • Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    23,619
    Location:
    Dallas, TX

    You missed Peach's DACUS.
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  6. MysteryRevengerson

    MysteryRevengerson
    Expand Collapse
    IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL

    • Premium
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,034
    Location:
    VA baby whe' you at
    3DS FC:
    0216-0896-9242
    No you've got it pretty well. If you plan on DACUSing with GnW you DO have to Claw to A or set another button as Attack (I use triggers because it makes DACUS easier/more fluid for me anyway) And yeah, GnW can cancel his Dash Attack into a Grab.

    DACGrab
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  7. MattNF

    MattNF
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Messages:
    1,867
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks for this guide, I was able to DACUS in brawl but I had some problems with it in PM. Hopefully I can master it now!
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  8. ItsRainingGravy

    ItsRainingGravy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    Alabama
    Woah, she has a DACUS now? I completely missed that one! I'll have to add that later after I get back home from holiday dinners. Thanks, Strong Bad!

    Also as a note for Shiek players (and possibly Sonic players): Shiek can no longer DACUS in Project M, since she was almost completely restored to her Melee status (aside from her downthrow and a few other things).
     
  9. standardtoaster

    standardtoaster
    Expand Collapse
    Rin is best idol

    • Moderator
    • Premium
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,171
    Location:
    Eau Claire, Wisconsin
    4 frame jumpers have a 1 frame window to dacus with Attack. If you use Grab you will do a boost grab.
    5 frame jumpers have a 2 frame window to dacus with Attack and a 1 frame window to dacus with Grab
    6 frame jumpers have a 3 frame window to dacus with Attack and a 2 frame window to dacus with Grab.
    etc
     
    NeonApophis and ItsRainingGravy like this.
  10. ItsRainingGravy

    ItsRainingGravy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    Alabama
    Added Peach to the list of characters who can DACUS, as well as standardtoaster's notes. Thanks, toaster!

    EDIT: I will add each character's jump frames once I know all of them. Roy, Marth, G&W and Wolf (?) all have 4 frame jumps though, which is why they need to use an Attack button instead of a Grab button for their respective DACUS smashes.
     
  11. guedes the brawler

    guedes the brawler
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    Location:
    Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
    NNID:
    Rafabrawl
    it if's so useless, why did they even bother giving marth a Dacus?
     
  12. MonkUnit

    MonkUnit
    Expand Collapse
    Project M Back Roomer

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    6,075
    Location:
    Eau Claire, Wisconsin
    Having a DACUS is just a result of a character's JumpStart amount. Marth's just happens to be a big enough JumpStart which allows him to DACUS.
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  13. ItsRainingGravy

    ItsRainingGravy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    Alabama
    It's not that it is completely useless, but consistently pulling it off and knowing how to properly space it can be very tedious and frustrating...in an actual match, anyways. You only have a single frame to work with, which opens up a large room for error when pulling the move off. Marth's Up Smash does have flub hits around his sides, but they usually don't help him too much. Probably the best application for this DACUS is hitting someone who is on a platform, such as the Battlefield platforms, where it could potentially score a KO or at least free damage. Other than that though, Marth's DACUS should never really be used. Using Marth's standard tools is far more effective and precise.
     
  14. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
    Expand Collapse
    Speed isn't enough. You gotta have technique too.

    • Moderator
    • Premium
    • Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    23,619
    Location:
    Dallas, TX

    People always call Marth's DACUS useless

    Til they fight my Marth
     
    ItsRainingGravy and arcticfox8 like this.
  15. Ultimate Sneeze

    Ultimate Sneeze
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    Tri Cities, WA
    ItsRainingGravy is my hero

    Honestly though, I was just starting to learn about/practice DACUS and this thread shows up out of nowhere...

    THANK YOU
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  16. Zujx

    Zujx
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    162
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Thank you for contributing this wonderful guide, I wish a solid guide like this was around when I was learning it
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  17. Thane of Blue Flames

    Thane of Blue Flames
    Expand Collapse
    Fire is catching.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,133
    Location:
    The other side of Sanity
    Hopefully, this will be useful to me as I prepare DACUS training today! I definitely didn't know that the C-Stick must return to neutral (or that it's specifically C-Down ...) so thanks!
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  18. standardtoaster

    standardtoaster
    Expand Collapse
    Rin is best idol

    • Moderator
    • Premium
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,171
    Location:
    Eau Claire, Wisconsin
    It doesn't have to be cstick down specifically. any direction other than up (causes a usmash obv) will work
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  19. ItsRainingGravy

    ItsRainingGravy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    Alabama
    Didn't know this either. Thanks for the info!

    When it comes to the timings for DACUS smashes, feel free to ask me questions, and I will offer you my perspective on what feels best to do for a certain character. Though the PMBR will most likely give far more concrete and precise answers than I would, but I'll help out when I can!

    Additionally, anyone is free to comment about DACUS strategies in matchups in this thread, too. If it is DACUS related, it can be posted here!

    Resting for the night since the holidays wore me out though, lol. Though I should be around on-off during most days after today.
     
  20. KayB

    KayB
    Expand Collapse
    BRoomer

    • Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3,773
    Location:
    Seoul, South Korea

    Absolute awesome thread dude.
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.
  21. Thane of Blue Flames

    Thane of Blue Flames
    Expand Collapse
    Fire is catching.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,133
    Location:
    The other side of Sanity
    Ike's DACUS is actually plenty viable; it combos out of FThrow at mid-high percents and getting grabs with Ike is pretty easy.
     
  22. The_Altrox

    The_Altrox
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,588
    Location:
    Youngstown, OH
    NNID:
    The_Altrox
    I could never get this right in Brawl. Hopefully I can do this here. I'm glad it got carried over.
     
  23. guedes the brawler

    guedes the brawler
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    Location:
    Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
    NNID:
    Rafabrawl

    apparently it's harder here... good luck to us both.
     
  24. The_Altrox

    The_Altrox
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,588
    Location:
    Youngstown, OH
    NNID:
    The_Altrox
    Of course they made it harder. idk, the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that that would be done just because of some messed up mindset that harder input equates to a better game.

    Then again, I'm biased. I can wavedash, but I can't do it spontaneously in battle (except accidentally with Ganondorf of all people). I am not good at techs at all. I think I better go back to playing Divekick :O
     
  25. wiiztec

    wiiztec
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Journeyman

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    349
    Location:
    Attleboro, MA
    NNID:
    wiiztec
    It doesn't have to return to neutral, I've done it holding c down the whole time
     
  26. MonkUnit

    MonkUnit
    Expand Collapse
    Project M Back Roomer

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    6,075
    Location:
    Eau Claire, Wisconsin
    It's only harder due to lack of buffer.
     
  27. Jade_Rock55

    Jade_Rock55
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,047
    3DS FC:
    4656-7001-2336
    I find it easier to dacus with a nunchuck than with a classic controller,I wish my gamecube controller worked though...

    I just realized why Mewtwo's dacus wasn't working,since I can do Marth,Roy's,Snakes and Link's dacus I always wondered why I couldn't with him.

    An easy way to dacus with wiimote+nunchuck is set d-pad down to down smash,so you would run>down samsh>then input up smash with the control stick and A.
     
  28. Thane of Blue Flames

    Thane of Blue Flames
    Expand Collapse
    Fire is catching.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Messages:
    3,133
    Location:
    The other side of Sanity
    I've found doing it with the classic controller is basically impossible for me. Any insights, or do I just need practice?
     
  29. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad
    Expand Collapse
    Speed isn't enough. You gotta have technique too.

    • Moderator
    • Premium
    • Back Roomer
    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    23,619
    Location:
    Dallas, TX

    C-stick down is better because forward or back can cause an F-Smash during the first 3 frames of dash.
     
    ItsRainingGravy and Burnsy like this.
  30. otter

    otter
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    616
    Location:
    Ohio
    Can anyone explain why this works from an engine point of view?
     
  31. guedes the brawler

    guedes the brawler
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    Location:
    Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
    NNID:
    Rafabrawl
    and can someone explain to me from the same POV why the characters slide as much as they do?
     
  32. Rat

    Rat
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,870
    Location:
    Chicago
    @Guedes the brawler

    Afaik the distance depends on two things:
    1) The momentum applied during the start of the dash attack
    2) The characters ground friction

    If you look at characters with large DACUS you'll notice that they suddenly move forward during the start of their dash attack. For Example look at Lucas' Dash Attack. The entire attack doesn't move very far BUT the initial frames lunge him forward very quickly. That's why his DACUS goes so far.

    Since we are cancelling the first few frames of the Dash Attack, that initial lunge is being applied to the Up Smash.

    Take a look at the Dash Attack of the characters with the biggest DACUS: Lucas, GW, Ganon, Wolf, Falco, Wario, Marth, and Ike. You'll notice that they all lunge or teleport forward during the very start of the Dash attack.
     
    Bazkip and Thane of Blue Flames like this.
  33. otter

    otter
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    616
    Location:
    Ohio
    That makes sense, but how does inputting down smash, up and grab give you an upsmash?
     
  34. ItsRainingGravy

    ItsRainingGravy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    Alabama
    Dash + C-Down (Down Smash) = Dash Attack

    Grab = Attack + Shield

    Up + Grab = Up + Attack (overrides the shield button) = Up Smash


    I hope this helps! I might be posting a bit more in this topic later tonight.
     
    otter likes this.
  35. Xinc

    Xinc
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,529
    Location:
    NY, NY
    3DS FC:
    2981-7601-8481
    NNID:
    xincmars
    So it's C-stick Down to Z+ControlStickUp for preferred. wow.
     
  36. ItsRainingGravy

    ItsRainingGravy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    Alabama
    Actually, it would be C-Stick Down to rotating the control stick up to pressing an Attack button. That methods works too though, but you would be losing a frame of input time, and sometimes mashing Up on the control stick + Attack/Grab at the same time will cause some errors sometimes. Mashing up EXTREMELY SLIGHTLY before Attack/Grab usually yields more success, from my testings.
     
  37. guedes the brawler

    guedes the brawler
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,076
    Location:
    Brazil. Sadly. Living here SUCKS!
    NNID:
    Rafabrawl

    So, using this logic, guys, how do you think other characters would Dacus if they could do it?
     
  38. Jade_Rock55

    Jade_Rock55
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Lord

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,047
    3DS FC:
    4656-7001-2336
    Can you do something like dacus with your other smashes?
     
  39. ItsRainingGravy

    ItsRainingGravy
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    749
    Location:
    Alabama
    Not to my knowledge. Just Up Smash. You can however do a Down Smash or Forward Smash during a full dash (Forward Smash you have to crouch cancel to use it), but you won't slide with them as opposed to using a DACUS...unless your character has really low traction to begin with (Luigi).
     
  40. SpiderMad

    SpiderMad
    Expand Collapse
    Smash Master

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,969
    You're missing the best video in your list, https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Y_CHWI4IXSw#t=118 which features a controlller model and mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v5cy6uqC0Os#t=18 with a hand cam

    And squirtle you mention Up-b out of Withdraw (Aquajet?), I think that was changed to just be triggered by A

    Also you mention "4) Mash the attack button. " is that better than just timing it?

    Also what's the frame windows for performing Falco's and others gatling combo?
     
    ItsRainingGravy likes this.

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)

We know you don't like ads
Why not buy Premium?