Custom controllers/sticks at tournaments?

[Haxxy]

Hey, I'm thinking about designing my own controller for Smash. How do people generally feel about this in tournaments? I feel like since everyone uses the Gamecube controller it would be rather weird. But, at the same time, tournaments for other games let players bring whatever sticks they want, marketed or custom.

 

[Sinji]

As long as its not customized enough to cheat in matches at the tourney, go free my brother.

 

[Haxxy]

As long as its not customized enough to cheat in matches at the tourney, go free my brother.

I'm guessing "cheating" is considered using macros, turbo, or any sort of technique that defies the original controller mapping.

No one would care if I, say, turned the C stick into four buttons, or removed the squish from the shoulder buttons?

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

No one would care if I, say, turned the C stick into four buttons?

lol i think that would just make things harder on yourself

 

[Haxxy]

lol i think that would just make things harder on yourself

Imagine having a spread-out fighting stick where you hit jump with a middle or ring finger and a C button with your thumb. You can position your thumb on the correct button before you initiate the attack.

 

[joejoe22802]

I think this would be banned. You could ASDI in multiple directions. Didn't something similar to this happen when that one arcade stick was made with buttons instead of a stick..

 

[Falcoty]

There are only a few things in this game that macros could reasonably used for, and they would all be incredibly obvious if someone was doing them consistently. Even turbo wouldn't help you too much, aside from maybe crouch-canceled counters or if you're playing a character that can rapid attack (pikachu, etc.)

I think this is something that needs to be tried, I've always wanted to make a controller with a different button layout, or buttons for triggers.

 

[Battlecow]

I distinctly remember hearing that putting the springs sideways in the shoulders (so that they functioned as buttons not triggers) was banned. I'd therefor assume that modifications to that extent are illegal.

 

[standardtoaster]

From what I know, controller mods being banned pretty much means things such as macros or turbo buttons. Removing the springs in the shoulder button so that it no longer registers a light press should not be banned. You can get the exact same effect by holding the shoulder button in all the way when plugging in your controller.

 

[Falcoty]

I was also under the impression that removing springs from triggers was standard practice among the brawl community, since there's no light shielding anyways, only the button press matters. Any brawlers wanna weigh in?

 

[Tee ay eye]

no one's going to care unless there's auto/turbo features
even then, no one's going to care

 

[Myztek]

No amount of controller mods is going to give you a ridiculous advantage.

I would be interested in a custom controller. I feel that the Gamecube controller's button layout isn't well-suited to some advanced techs. Specifically with Fox and Falco.

 

[Massive]

I'm guessing "cheating" is considered using macros, turbo, or any sort of technique that defies the original controller mapping.

No one would care if I, say, turned the C stick into four buttons, or removed the squish from the shoulder buttons?

These are analog sticks, not digital, so it's going to be a bit more complicated than moving two wires for separate button inputs (but not *that* much more complicated, if you know what you're doing having 4 resistors set to the values of all axes of the potentiometer and then attaching some buttons should do it).

Seriously though, alternate gamecube controllers could be pretty legit, you could increase playability for the disabled or just make a more durable controller.

Actually you could come up witha pretty interesting fightstick too if you wanted to, a main 'A' button surrounded on all sides by cstick buttons would be reasonably functional.

I was considering making an aluminum shelled controller a few months ago, but decided not to after my search for springless hall-effect thumbsticks came up with a minimum price of 80 dollars a piece.

 

[Massive]

Double post because I feel like the last one would be too long if I added this.

I got thinking about this and mocked up a Traditional-style fight stick button layout specifically for smash.

The idea behind it is that the buttons most frequently used together are now adjacent to each other so they could be pressed more easily. It would be take a substantial adjustment period to get comfortable, but theoretically it should be easier to do almost all inputs this way.

 

[Violence]

: /

Isn't it going to be hard to do tilts/smashes? I thought arcade sticks have problems recognizing the strength of directional input.

I mean, most characters have a variable walk speed, don't they?

Imagine trying to shield drop...

 

[Massive]

There are 2 types of joystick, analog and digital.
You simply use an analog joystick (like the kind you used to see with computers) instead of an arcade one.

 

[LLDL]

You've separated the B button extremely far from the X and Y buttons. How would I do multishines on that lol.

 

[Oracle]

I think this would be banned. You could ASDI in multiple directions. Didn't something similar to this happen when that one arcade stick was made with buttons instead of a stick..

I doubt the game would be able to recognize two opposite inputs. In Project 64 nothing special happens when you press left/right or up/down

 

[Varist]

You've separated the B button extremely far from the X and Y buttons. How would I do multishines on that lol.

?

x,b for multishine,
y,z for jc grab,
l,x for jump out of shield,
r,c-up for upsmash out of shield,
x,c-left for quick bair/fair,
y,c-right for quick bair/fair,
y,z for quick nair/zair.

 

[darkatma]

no one's going to care unless there's auto/turbo features
even then, no one's going to care

This.

I've always felt that no amount of controller modding will make you a better player, so what's the point of banning it? If anything, controller modding should be encouraged if it can further the metagame.

Plus I feel that custom controllers wouldn't be able to stand up to the wear and tear of playing often like the gamecube controller can.

 

[Massive]

?

x,b for multishine,
y,z for jc grab,
l,x for jump out of shield,
r,c-up for upsmash out of shield,
x,c-left for quick bair/fair,
y,c-right for quick bair/fair,
y,z for quick nair/zair.

This works as well, I knew I'd forget something about some space animal.
Alternatively, you could switch the places of 'L' and 'X' in my original drawing.
This would make all c-sticked moves adjacent to a button for L-cancelling as well as adjacent to a jump.

[You've separated the B button extremely far from the X and Y buttons. How would I do multishines on that lol.

Incidentally since this would be the size of a regular arcade stick, nothing is going to be out of the distance your fingers can move.
Street fighter players frequently move their fingers over 3 buttons to perfom actions and never have much difficulty.

There is no "extremely far away" on the controller.

 

[LLDL]

Then again, street fighter isn't as heavy when it comes to user input.

 

[PGH Carroll]

But gamecube controllers got that swag.

 

[Massive]

Then again, street fighter isn't as heavy when it comes to user input.

That's not true at all. They definitely hit as many buttons than we do, faster than we do.

Melee is more about out-thinking your opponent than doing physical inputs, and Street Fighter is still about out-thinking your opponent, but with a much smaller variable list and more complicated inputs.

 

[Cactuar]

This has been discussed several times over the years.

The biggest issue seems to be with how much easier it would make JC shining, as you could rig it with your jump and B button next to each other. The gamecube controller actually does quite a bit towards limiting how quickly we can do inputs. This can be partially countered by learning to claw, but the buttons are still tiny and close together, making it challenging in its own right.

I think giving yourself an ease-of-play advantage based on custom hardware should not be legal unless there were special circumstance such as disability. Even then, every disabled player I've seen manages well with the GC controller.

 

[Myztek]

This has been discussed several times over the years.

The biggest issue seems to be with how much easier it would make JC shining, as you could rig it with your jump and B button next to each other. The gamecube controller actually does quite a bit towards limiting how quickly we can do inputs. This can be partially countered by learning to claw, but the buttons are still tiny and close together, making it challenging in its own right.

I think giving yourself an ease-of-play advantage based on custom hardware should not be legal unless there were special circumstance such as disability. Even then, every disabled player I've seen manages well with the GC controller.

Disagreed. Making the controller more comfortable should not be illegal. Just because something is easier to do due to layout, doesn't mean it should be banned. People are going to used advanced techs, such as JC shines, regardless. Why not have less wear on our hands?

 

[UltiMario]

Limiting controller mods is an extremely bad mentality that's almost exclusive to the Smash community.

Every community bans turbos, sure, but ****, you could go into a fighting tourney with your arcade stick being a ****ing sphere with cones attached to it with 14 different buttons, but hell if it suited your playstyle, just ****ing use it.

The competitive mentality is play to win. If someone goes through all the effort of making a controller from scratch that works better for them, then there is absolutely no reason to not allow it. It's the other player's fault for being at a disadvantage if they're using an inferior controller or layout, not the other person's fault for having a superior layout.

This is much less of an issue in a community used to a large variety of arcade sticks, but still shouldn't be an issue in Smash. No turbos and macros? Then it's absolutely fine.

 

[Acryte]

Varist's configuration looks easier however for waveshielding around.

 

[Acryte]

Varist's configuration looks easier for waveshielding around

 

[Cactuar]

It's not really a matter of inferior controller layout. The issue is that the gamecube controller is so heavily the standard (somewhere between... 100% and 100%) of the community, that a variation from it providing advantage to one player for having invested time and money into making a pad specifically to make it easier for him to perform certain techniques is not a legitimate pursuit.

In other fighting game communities, it has become common practice to have custom control sticks and whatnot, but the essentials of the game don't really get changed based on that. The sticks don't provide an advantage over the standard of any other player aside from familiarity.

 

[Rubyiris]

Cactuar, you're promoting "it's the way we've always done it" mentality which is bad. I expected better from you.

 

[Massive]

In other fighting game communities, it has become common practice to have custom control sticks and whatnot, but the essentials of the game don't really get changed based on that. The sticks don't provide an advantage over the standard of any other player aside from familiarity.

Yes they do, it is infintely easier to doubletap directions or hit buttons in rapid succession on a fight stick than it is on a pad. Sticks are head and shoulders better for the vast majority of things done in traditional fighting games (look up option selects and tell me it would not be advantageous to be on a stick).

Yet there are still people who are competitive (even at pro-level) with pads. It's a matter of preference, and there are advantages/disadvantages to each.

edit: This is actually a pretty interesting technical challenge for me, I might build one of the designs I posted.
WILL I BECOME THE BEST MELEE PLAYER IN THE WORLD!? (probably not, lol)

 

[Cactuar]

Cactuar, you're promoting "it's the way we've always done it" mentality which is bad. I expected better from you.

What I'm promoting is not "do it because we've always done it". This is more like a comparison between natural training to success in sports and using steroids. In this case, the standard throughout the ages has been without the aid of things like steroids, then all of a sudden because we have the technology, there are ways to success by making it easier to gain strength, speed, etc.

@Massive: I meant in the sense that another player couldn't easier acquire the same stick setup, not that the individual sticks might have advantages over one another.

This argument has also been strictly discussing full stick setups, not gamepads. I don't understand how the majority of your post applies due to that.

 

[Acryte]

The only thing that worries me is that rage quits may not feel as awesome without sqeezing the controller into a pulp.

 

[Cactuar]

The only thing that worries me is that rage quits may not feel as awesome without sqeezing the controller into a pulp.

First world problems.

 

[Glöwworm]

*****es gonna be mad when I play Smash with a Dance Dance Revolution dance pad.

 

[The Tycon]

*****es gonna be mad when I play Smash with a Dance Dance Revolution dance pad.

I play with the Donkey Bongos.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I play with a GameBoy Advance attached to the system.

 

[EPsilon933]

This is more like a comparison between natural training to success in sports and using steroids. In this case, the standard throughout the ages has been without the aid of things like steroids, then all of a sudden because we have the technology, there are ways to success by making it easier to gain strength, speed, etc.

I think adderall would be the video game equivalent of steroids

 

[Cactuar]

Was making a comparison, not defining it as the equivalent.

The somewhat widespread use of adderall is interesting though.