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Critique Me Ft. Lovage! Updated vs Sung

Discussion in 'Sheik' started by joejoe22802, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. joejoe22802

    joejoe22802 Smash Ace

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  2. DanteFox

    DanteFox Smash Debater

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    nice job joey. I think If you got really good at gimping that would be cool. Just copy mew2king.
  3. Mr Wizzrobe

    Mr Wizzrobe Smash Journeyman

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    Your Sheik is pretty good. You're good with needles and you have great stage control.

    One thing you need to do is GRAB. I don't think you grabbed at all during match one and very little during match 2. A lot of times you just randomly utilted or dash attacked his shield when you could have easily grabbed him. Grabs win this matchup for Sheik.

    Also be a little bit faster with your punishes. I noticed a lot of times where Lovage messed up and you didn't capitalize, or do much of anything for that matter.

    Other than that, very impressive.
  4. gm jack

    gm jack Smash Debater

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    Watch the dash attacks at really low percents. Even if they don't cc it, they don't get lifted off the ground, so you get nothing anyway. Grabs are better.
  5. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze Smash Legend

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    Stay grounded vs Fox and use a ton of dash forward > WD back to space. It's better than DDing with her in general because WD back has more options (all your tilts, down smash, grab, blocking while facing him, etc). DD > SH Bair and grab are acceptable though, and DD dash attack is good sometimes.

    Spam crouch cancel in this matchup. Go periods of crouching and moving around while doing nothing. If he touches you with anything that isn't shine, low aerial, up smash, dair, or grab you can get a free grab or down smash and then do stuff. You can also d-tilt him through a lot of those moves (particularly the aerials) if you position him to fall on the down tilt, which is good.

    At low percents (below 25 or 30 or something), all you're really trying to do is grab him if he's playing grounded or anti-air him into a grab setup. F-tilt is okay if they're not crouch canceling. Fairs and Bairs are okay, needles off platform > fair are okay, but the focus should be to be evasive and get hits that don't risk you getting punished for landing them. If you do any rising aerials at low percents (esp. FJ aerials), maximize the distance between you two and don't get stuck above him after hitting him. You're just asking to be up aired a bunch (or up smashed if they're SHed).
  6. FoosJr

    FoosJr Smash Ace

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    everything kirbykaze just said + work on tech chasing a grab on fox could lead to like 70ish percent with good tech chasing.
  7. gm jack

    gm jack Smash Debater

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    True stuff on the tech chasing. It looks so easy in ntsc, yet nobody can actually do it consistently.
  8. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze Smash Legend

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    harder than it looks

    also requires a lot more self-control than people realize
  9. gm jack

    gm jack Smash Debater

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    I just meant in comparison to PAL, where you need stupid good reflex to cover everything after the migration to where they land. People like Amsah do it stupidly well at times, and even noobs like me can cover just about everything if I'm playing really well.

    Just compare the number of people who cite the tech chase as a great tool against fast fallers, and the number who actually manage to make it a great tool and you realise we make it hard for ourselves.
  10. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze Smash Legend

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    tope and i are good at it in ntsc

    idk what more u want me to say

    it's doable but takes practice / warming up / understanding how techs work and where vulnerabilities are
  11. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad Wario time!

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    walk forward wd back is also an acceptable form of spacing while grounded and can be mixed in with dash forward. if you condition your opponent to try to overshoot to catch your wd back you can just ftilt out of the walk.
  12. AlcyoNite

    AlcyoNite Smash Champion

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    its really not that bad in PAL to tech chase spacies
  13. gm jack

    gm jack Smash Debater

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    Most suck at getting out of it, esp the uk ones you would have played (we have roughly 2 players who are any good, as you may have noticed). I do agree though, and I feel that even the PAL tech chase could be done perfectly even without superhuman reactions.
  14. AlcyoNite

    AlcyoNite Smash Champion

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    Im trying to figure out your sig

    is "stulte" in the vocative?
  15. gm jack

    gm jack Smash Debater

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    I think so, but my latin hasn't been seen for years. It was done by another of the smashers at Cambridge.
  16. Jolteon

    Jolteon Lightning Pokémon

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    i agree that tech chasing spacies in pal isn't that hard @_@
  17. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze Smash Legend

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    this thread needs more nairodactyl
  18. AlcyoNite

    AlcyoNite Smash Champion

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    are u at cambridge uni o_O ?
  19. gm jack

    gm jack Smash Debater

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    Yeah. I was the stupidly tall one with long hair at the london monthly. LJ and Frugs (who didn't attend) also go there.

    Also, +1 to KK on Nair. Retreating nairs can simultaneously bait and punish spacies, as for some reason they forget it's a sex kick and like to try and jump into it.
  20. AlcyoNite

    AlcyoNite Smash Champion

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    aww, i think the only sheik i got to play there was jolteon. i might go to the brighton tourney and get a chance to play u there (?)

    i am recently learning the magic of baiting ppl into sheik's retreating nair and [maybe] down smash.
  21. gm jack

    gm jack Smash Debater

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    I won't be able to go to that - uni is pretty heavy on the work load and Brighton is just too far. Hopefully there will be another london tournament though while you are here, which I should be able to go to.
  22. joejoe22802

    joejoe22802 Smash Ace

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  23. DanteFox

    DanteFox Smash Debater

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    be more aggressive from the neutral position. You're very good at being safe. Now take more risks by approaching the falco with tilts and jabs. Also, needles. Also, watch m2k.
  24. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze Smash Legend

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    I only watched game 3 seriously.

    Don't dash attack at super low %s. In general, you seem to have a lot of problems understanding what you should be trying to do at percents. You fair > d-smashed him at 0% when you could have grabbed, jab > f-tilted him at like 150%+ when you could have d-smashed him for the KO, etc.

    Grab more. I cannot stress this enough. You let this Falco get away with holding block to such a degree that you throw like 4 moves into his shield at once (I think you had a low bair > up tilt > jab > d-smash sequence?) and he comes out unscathed. You're not Peach. You can't pressure people to crush them, not without giving them a reason to come out of shield. You need to grab them so they're encouraged to not hold block so you can get other combo starters on them. This also feeds into your issues of low percent game, because grab is her best move to hit at low percents by far (other good moves at low % include needles > grab, a full set of needles, up tilt vs airborne foe, sometimes d-smash [if you can multi-hit it], and spaced aerials).

    You have some very predictable (bad!) habits against lasers. You jump predictably and waste your double jump (if this Falco had been more aggressive, you would have been raped because spending your jump = you have no real combo break against his tilts and other bullcrap). You also platform yourself a lot. Or you just sort of submit to his laser pressure and start blocking and moving around with block (and do nothing else, which gives Falco total control of the situation). You can do more than this. Try crouching his medium and high lasers. It lets you compete for the ground a lot better. SH over the low ones when he switches to super low ones to counter your duck. Stuff like that. You can dash under the high ones that he'll shoot to cover your jumps, so try that.

    You have to make Falco work to keep you under control. Submitting by assuming a single basic defensive stance and holing up in it will just get you wrecked. You gotta kind of flow and disrupt his rhythm so he doesn't take over.

    When using nair oos, you need to retreat with it more often (if it doesn't initially hit). It's not meant to turn into an approach oos or anything, it's just anti-pressure (usually). Drifting into Falco with a medium priority, weak move is suicidal.

    During tech chases, don't f-throw. Unless you're putting them near the edge, or something. Even then I'd advise against it because your tilts work better for that, and d-smash is better if you're going to abort mission and quit while you're ahead. Against Falco, you have some good combo options out of d-throw around 50%+ if he doesn't DI away (f-tilt, d-tilt, d-smash, jab, etc) that would be worth exploring so you can spice up your punishment on him.

    You engage him in only a few ways when he's on the platform and most of the time you're not even spaced for your aerials. Waveland grab. Wait sometimes. You're letting him get away with blocking your moves so much. If he attacked out of shield in a lot of these situations, you'd be very screwed with how recklessly you're throwing your body into his shield.

    Minor note: I saw you shoot needles when the opponent was above you. Don't do that. Pick your moves based on where they are, or are going to be.

    Blargh.
  25. joejoe22802

    joejoe22802 Smash Ace

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    Thanks Kirby I really appreciate it. I understand it takes some will to type up that much. I'll try to clean up my game for you.

    :phone:
  26. KirbyKaze

    KirbyKaze Smash Legend

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    <3

    I am hard on you guys because I care.

    Now get good so you can help me rep this wonderful character. :awesome:
  27. shadrach kabango

    shadrach kabango Smash Lord

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    good advice. sheik v fox is brutal. you really gotta play like a *** til 30%

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