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Community-Generated Trials for Melee?

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Scar talked about the concept of a fanmade trial challenge system for melee, in which a list of challenges is presented for each character in different circumstances, and one can advance by completing the current task and checking it off their list. This would not only help new players become acclimated to the bread and butter combos and techniques of their characters, it would also help players trying out new characters to have a starting point. Scar created a trial (tentatively) system for Falcon, and I would love to see this for other characters. I would be more than willing to make one for Falco, possibly even with a video aid of what it's supposed to look like for each trial.

Soooo.....thoughts?
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Shameless double post, but I've thought of a few trials for Falco:

1. Short hop laser
2. Short hop lasering Link while he is standing below his shield (his actual shield, not the one from holding R) in training mode (learning to shoot low lasers)
3. Turnaround short hop laser
4. Ledge hop double laser where both of them hit fox in training mode (learning to shoot accurate low ledge hop lasers)
5. On Yoshi's Story, beneath the center platform, with a level 3 Fox at 65%, Uptilt>Jump>Shine>Jump>Waveland on top platform>Forward Smash
6. Against Marth on Final Destination, Shine>Bair (after launching him with an upthrow) at 135% (to learn how to do immediate shine>bairs)
7. Running Laser>Grab
8. Against a level 3 Fox on Final Destination, carry him with waveshines 3 times
9. While facing the ledge, Shine>Turnaround>Waveshine>Ledgegrab
10. Ledgedrop>Shine>Firebird>Ledgestall
11. On Pokemon Stadium, on neutral transformation, run off of one of the platforms towards the center and Phantasm>Ledgecancel on the other platform
12. On Battlefield, wavedash back off of one of the side platforms towards the center (with at least 1/3 of a wavedash's distance left once you fall of the platform), input no directions at all, and just as you are about to land (but before you do) Phantasm to the platform behind you (the one farther from you) and you will ledgecancel.
13. On Battlefield, ledgedrop>jump away>phantasm>ledgecancel on the inside edge of the side platform

More to come/videos possibly
 

failninja21

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
13
Location
New Jersey
Oh wow this is pretty interesting. Do you happen to have a link to Scar's trial system for Falcon?
And I think this would definitely be useful, since rather than having the vague "get better" goal, there's actual steps that can be completed. Videos would help too since we can visualize what to do better.
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Oh wow this is pretty interesting. Do you happen to have a link to Scar's trial system for Falcon?
And I think this would definitely be useful, since rather than having the vague "get better" goal, there's actual steps that can be completed. Videos would help too since we can visualize what to do better.
I have a link to the episode of his Forum show where he performs many of his trials, there's no real concrete Falcon trial from him as of yet that I know of.
http://www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/449977557 - part 1

http://www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/449997964 - part 2

Young Link: Dreamland Challenge alone.

I don't know what you mean
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
So i just recorded a bunch of trials. Smashboards was down at the time, though, so I didn't get the exact list of the trials I put up. Gonna edit and make a trial video soon!
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Training mode combos seem like a good fit for something like this. Examples:
- Combo an unstaled uthrow uair on Peach at 6%
- Combo an unstaled uthrow shine on Fox and Falco at 0%
- Combo laser into dtilt
- Combo laser into turnaround utilt

Also:
- Using a character with burners on their BtT stage (Fox's is easy), get sent flying and tech, techjump, or ground tech 5 times in a row
- (Marth) Using mines on the edge of the stage, up-B into them and techjump followed by an instant bair to grab the ledge
- Nairs per minute challenge
- Get across FD as fast as possible with only DDing/WDing/WLing
- Ledgedash with actionable invincibility (jab asap to prove your WL lag has ended and pause to see if your character is still blinking from invincibility)
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
i made a video of the ones i posted about.... I'm editing it
should be up within the week
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
I was actually thinking about making a huge database of all known universal tech to help the newcomers in my area find and understand all the options they had and tier them based on importance (L-canceling and wavedashing being more important than say pivoting or shield dropping for example). This is an even better method of introducing and teaching players to get better at the game.

Hell, people could even post youtube vids showing their achievements in a thread or something. Would be a really good way to motivate people.
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Finished editing the Falco Trials video, i'll post a youtube link when its uploaded.
It came out well, if i do say so myself.
16 total trials.

Short hop laser
Turnaround laser
Waveshine
Dair Shine
Dair Waveshine
Runoff shine turnaround firestall
Shine waveland on platforms
Runoff Walljump Dair, after which you recover
Runoff platform edgecancel phantasm on Pokemon Stadium and Battlefield
Short Hop lasering standing link below his shield in training mode
Ledge hop double lasering standing fox in training mode
Waveshine Carrying Fox in training 3x
Shine Bair on lvl 3 fox
Shine Bair on lvl 3 Marth at above 120%
Dair Shine comboing level 3 Marth on FD at least 3 times
Uptilt>Jump>Shine>Jump>Waveland>Fsmash on Yoshis below center platform on lvl 3 Fox at ~65%

hope you guys like the finished vid!
 

Marmalad3

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
29
Location
Vienna, VA
Never realized how woefully inconsistent with shine-bairing a high percent Marth I am. I guess that means that the trials are working!
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Not bad at all for beginners. Only real criticism I have is that you should have shown everything at peak level. It makes sense to show a simple, segmented version of each trial, but if that's all you show then players might think they have mastered the technique because their performance resembles the video. The Marth combo in particular made me cringe. lol I might take a crack at this kind of video myself if I can get a recording setup up and running.
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Never realized how woefully inconsistent with shine-bairing a high percent Marth I am. I guess that means that the trials are working!
Awesome! Thanks for watching my trial video, that's exactly what it was intended to do.
Not bad at all for beginners. Only real criticism I have is that you should have shown everything at peak level. It makes sense to show a simple,segmented version of each trial, but if that's all you show then players might think they have mastered the technique because their performance resembles the video. The Marth combo in particular made me cringe. lol I might take a crack at this kind of video myself if I can get a recording setup up and running.
Yeah, I know the Marth combo is jank, but the point of that trial is to just get the timing down for it. You will have to waveshine against good DI, but at least the beginner will understand the mechanics of the combo. Most beginners can't grasp the double jump above to dair fastfall through, this way they can see the gist of the combo.
And yeah, definitely take a crack at it! The only way our trials will get better is by more people doing them. Thanks for your feedback!
 

Alexander Duprey

Smash Cadet
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Jul 5, 2013
Messages
73
Location
Saint cloud, FL
3DS FC
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This right here is what melee needs. Every other competitive game has something similar to trials and I think this would help noobs like me get into the game competitively. I practiced these trials and I am now getting comfertable with JC shine with up on the control stick on my double jump. I can't definitely tell trails will improve peoples game, and I think we need some on every character forum right now.
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
This right here is what melee needs. Every other competitive game has something similar to trials and I think this would help noobs like me get into the game competitively. I practiced these trials and I am now getting comfertable with JC shine with up on the control stick on my double jump. I can't definitely tell trails will improve peoples game, and I think we need some on every character forum right now.
Thanks so much for your positive feedback! I'm glad it helped you.

I would love to see this spread as a trend into the other character forums. I could potentially make a trials video for a few other characters (Fox, Marth, Mario, maybe Falcon) but certainly not for the whole cast.
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
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Jul 23, 2012
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541
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New York
So the Falco Trial video is kinda blowing up now, and I'm making a new Marth trial video!
the raw footage is all recorded and categorized, I just have to do the editing and make a proper video. Should be up within the week!
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
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541
Location
New York
Thanks guys! I appreciate all the support.
It's about time somebody made trials for this 13 year old game.
 

Juggleguy

Smash Grimer
Premium
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
9,354
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Good stuff JKJ. We can post some of your trials on the MIOM website if you'd like them to gain more exposure. Let me know.
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
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Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Good stuff JKJ. We can post some of your trials on the MIOM website if you'd like them to gain more exposure. Let me know.
Sure Juggleguy, that'd be awesome!
I tweeted Scar before I made the Falco video, but i don't think he responded. I'd love for these to get more exposure; not only did I work hard on them, but I think they can only help our community to grow.

I'd really appreciate if you'd share the Falco video on the MIOM website. The link's in my sig. Thanks again!
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
I tried to do this in 2005, pretty much got shot down right away, The community has gotten so much better. :D
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Can't wait to get home and try this out. The smash community owes you one JKJ.
Thanks! I really appreciate your support and I think you'll find it very helpful. I stepped it up in terms of depth and explanation on this one.
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
Just finished watching the Marth Trials. Thanks JKJ, you did a great job.

Meanwhile, I've got some practicing to do.
Glad you liked them! Thanks for the positive feedback.

I'm glad they helped you realize techniques you were missing/not consistent with.
 

Blother

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
35
These videos really help bridge the gap between learning basic tech skills and getting to know the intricacies of the characters. I would love to see more of these done, especially for Peach :bee:
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
Location
New York
These videos really help bridge the gap between learning basic tech skills and getting to know the intricacies of the characters. I would love to see more of these done, especially for Peach :bee:
Peach will most likely not be coming for a bit. I would either have to invite a Peach player over to record or learn how to play Peach. Her and IC's are too weirdly technical for me to play myself as it stands right now.

I'm working on Sheik right now; slated after this is Fox, Falcon, and Jiggs (?)
 

thespymachine

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
830
Location
Henderson, NV
So, I've started a discussion in the Falcon boards about this: http://smashboards.com/threads/captain-falcon-trials.344677/

I think this is brilliant stuff, and everyone should be checking this out. In the end this could be a great way to help establish a technical/knowledge foundation for all the characters, easing new players into the game and providing a great training/warmup tool for veterans.

Edit:
I have some input on the list I posted, and people seem to keep recommending things that any character can do (ie, tech, DI, shield-drop, etc). Perhaps we can put together a Trials list that is a sort of Melee Technical Fundamentals list, yeah?

Edit 2: Just brainstorming some Fox ideas
- Turnaround Waveshine: half a roll's distance from edge, facing the edge, shine-turnaround wavedash to edge
- Shine Dairs (Drill Shines): shine to shffl-dair to shine - then, on a Handicap 9, lvl 1 Bowser (you handicap 1) - then, do Nair Shines on the Bowser [three levels of difficulty?]
- Firefox Stall: ledgedrop, shine, second-jump, up-b, grab ledge (then do the run off stage version)
- Shine Grab/Upsmash: self explanatory - practice shine-grab on handicapped Bowser - practice running shine-upsmash on unplugged Peach, then on a unplugged grounded Fox
 

JKJ

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
541
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New York
Awesome! Thanks so much for all the exposure.

I never intended to allow for this sort of a gap between my last video and the Sheik video, but school and work kind of overtook my life. The Sheik video is about 1 hours worth of work from completion and I fully intend to complete it. I also fully intend to make a Fox trials video, and may use some of your brainstormed ideas. I love the first one.

After that, I'm looking forward to doing a Puff, Falcon, and perhaps other mid-tier characters Trials video. I don't know how to play peach or ICs well enough to make any sort of a video on them. Doc, Ganon, and Samus, I could definitely do.

So, in short, I need to finish the Sheik vid and move these along. Thanks for your great input as always!
 
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