-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Challenger Approaching!!! ROY!! .PAC UP!!!! 12/7/09 at 3:36 AM EST
- Thread starter goodoldganon
- Start date
MrsSaturnandWatch
Smash Journeyman
Well, I made (edited) Roy's cape and hair kinda how it is in Maylay
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?nmgcmmjhjhm
Feel free to ask any revisions and such. (noting TOO big, ok?
)
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?nmgcmmjhjhm
Feel free to ask any revisions and such. (noting TOO big, ok?
)
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
OK, I just got back doing what I was doing and tried the latest version of Roy. I had to do stuff while posting this, so in case there is an update between now and when I started, for reference I got the Roy file for this testing at around 7:30.
His physics seem great. I think FF might be a bit too much, but other than that he feels completely different than Marth and very much a fast faller. His movement in the air is amazing. I think it's pretty close to how it will be when it's finished.
Standing A is pretty much useless. Same goes for Marth really. It was also terrible in Melee. Any ideas to make this not terrible? I figure if we give the tip the same effect of fair it might be a decent move for controlling your opponents position. Perhaps give the sweetspot some decent knockback so it's like a weaker version of ftilt.
Dash attack is awesome. I like how it has the reverse effect with the tip. Good idea.
Dtilt seems to be working properly now. I dare say you nailed it. Considering you made the ftilt tip move them closer to Roy, my suggestion of changing the dtilt tip is no longer necessary. I think this move is pretty much complete, barring possible future tweaks here and there. Good job.
Utilt is good, although right now it functions identical to Marth's. I think it's a bit redundant considering the dtilt sets things up in similar ways, although that isn't to say it doesn't have plenty of uses. How about slowing it down and making it kill well? Usmash seems to be more of a damaging move, so making this a powerful potential kill move would be nice. Like I said earlier, if you apply the Roy Mechanic to the tip of the uair then it would combo nicely into an utilt finish.
Ftilt is great, I love it. Faster than fsmash, solid damage, all I think it needs really is a bit more growth. It should be a kill option at high percents. The tip is amazing as long as it didn't have insane power. Drop it down so that you could use it to link into an fsmash at kill percentages and it's gold. I'm really glad you applied the tip like you did, cause it gives this move a chance to be used, and the dtilt gets plenty of action so this is some nice diversity. It would also take more skill to master the spacing of two moves, another good thing.
Fair... I'm honestly not liking this move too much. It's not terrible by any means, but I was expecting this to be the most revamped move. That is, in ways, a good thing, as Roy's fair was not really his primary aerial of choice in Melee. I'll need to play against human opponents to see how well the tip works in aerial engagements.
Nair is amazing when it comes to it's sweetspot. Perfect. Combos well, you can use the first hit on a grounded opponent to score a free grab, has solid knockback, and lots of amazing **** to go with it. I still think the tip should send them upwards and towards Roy, making the opponent be right above Roy at moderate percents (set up for fsmash, uair juggles, etc), and above and behind Roy at high percents (set up for bair).
Dair is great. I think the tip has way too much power though. Tone that back and it's good to go.
Bair is working as intended, although I need more testing.
Uair is sweet. Juggle madness makes me happy. I can see the character boards discussing the Roy matchups now, people will say "Don't be above Roy, that's a VERY bad idea." Just apply that weak spike effect to the tip so you can pull people down into an utilt and you are good to go.
Fsmash might need to be toned down. It needs more testing. As of right now it's like being blasted by Marth's tip except any ****** could do it. I can kinda see why Sakurai made Roy's smash weaker for this very reason. Maybe whenever you figure out how to enlarge the tip hitbox and shrink the sweetspot it will be fine, but right now it's too powerful. Even with it being so laggy, I'm thinking it's not all that hard to combo into. Hell we are designing this guy to get combos into his fsmash. At least for now, I don't think it would hurt to tone this move down a bit.
Downsmash is sorta meh. The tip on it is amazing though, and ironically the tip was the best way (in my opinion) to use Roy's downsmash in melee. So with that said, not every move should be amazing, and this move has uses so I say we are good.
Upsmash is still a bit bork, but we all know that.
Up B is also bork. If we can't make the multihit thing work then we'll have to rethink this move. I will say this, we need to increase the size of the hitbox that allows for reverse blazer, and it needs insane BKB and 0 growth. It doesn't need to be much larger, just enough to where you don't have to be inside the opponent to land a reverse blazer.
LOL at neutral B.
Dancing blade seems great to me. Since Marth's version was improved I think keeping it working pretty much the same is a good idea. Making it better than Marth's would just be silly considering how good Marth's is. I like that the 3rd hit up spikes. Perhaps make the fire hits deal more damage? At least that way you could say Roy's is marginally better? All in all, it's fine as is.
I don't even know what counter does right now. I would say to just plug in the same stuff it had in Melee, lower the window to counter something by a handful of frames and it will be good to go.
Now for throws!
Upthrow should have more growth. It should be able to kill moderately heavy people at around 150% or so. The base seems good, very melee like.
Fthrow seems good, also melee like. A little less base and very low growth. Roy shouldn't be able to fsmash from no DI, but he should be close.
Bthrow needs to send out at a more upward angle, or at less base and have very little growth. In melee you could bthrow to fsmash due to bad DI at low-medium percents. This should be true for Roy as well.
Similar to Bthrow, except in this version Dthrow needs to send mostly straight up, even more than bthrow. Bthrow, Dthrow, and Fthrow should be a guessing game, in which if Roy correctly guesses where his opponent DI's then he gets a free fsmash. So if they DI away then Dthrow will set up for fsmash, if they DI up then Bthrow sets up for an fsmash. If they think they are really crafty and DI up and away then you could fsmash from forward throw. Again, these things should only work like this at low-medium percents.
In closing, it seems as if we are building a character that combos like a mother****er, has really good setups at low percentages to kill early, but he begins to taper off at high percentages. When the opponent hits really high percentages, more options open up. So yeah, it's pretty cool how it seems to be working out. I hope this post helps.
His physics seem great. I think FF might be a bit too much, but other than that he feels completely different than Marth and very much a fast faller. His movement in the air is amazing. I think it's pretty close to how it will be when it's finished.
Standing A is pretty much useless. Same goes for Marth really. It was also terrible in Melee. Any ideas to make this not terrible? I figure if we give the tip the same effect of fair it might be a decent move for controlling your opponents position. Perhaps give the sweetspot some decent knockback so it's like a weaker version of ftilt.
Dash attack is awesome. I like how it has the reverse effect with the tip. Good idea.
Dtilt seems to be working properly now. I dare say you nailed it. Considering you made the ftilt tip move them closer to Roy, my suggestion of changing the dtilt tip is no longer necessary. I think this move is pretty much complete, barring possible future tweaks here and there. Good job.
Utilt is good, although right now it functions identical to Marth's. I think it's a bit redundant considering the dtilt sets things up in similar ways, although that isn't to say it doesn't have plenty of uses. How about slowing it down and making it kill well? Usmash seems to be more of a damaging move, so making this a powerful potential kill move would be nice. Like I said earlier, if you apply the Roy Mechanic to the tip of the uair then it would combo nicely into an utilt finish.
Ftilt is great, I love it. Faster than fsmash, solid damage, all I think it needs really is a bit more growth. It should be a kill option at high percents. The tip is amazing as long as it didn't have insane power. Drop it down so that you could use it to link into an fsmash at kill percentages and it's gold. I'm really glad you applied the tip like you did, cause it gives this move a chance to be used, and the dtilt gets plenty of action so this is some nice diversity. It would also take more skill to master the spacing of two moves, another good thing.
Fair... I'm honestly not liking this move too much. It's not terrible by any means, but I was expecting this to be the most revamped move. That is, in ways, a good thing, as Roy's fair was not really his primary aerial of choice in Melee. I'll need to play against human opponents to see how well the tip works in aerial engagements.
Nair is amazing when it comes to it's sweetspot. Perfect. Combos well, you can use the first hit on a grounded opponent to score a free grab, has solid knockback, and lots of amazing **** to go with it. I still think the tip should send them upwards and towards Roy, making the opponent be right above Roy at moderate percents (set up for fsmash, uair juggles, etc), and above and behind Roy at high percents (set up for bair).
Dair is great. I think the tip has way too much power though. Tone that back and it's good to go.
Bair is working as intended, although I need more testing.
Uair is sweet. Juggle madness makes me happy. I can see the character boards discussing the Roy matchups now, people will say "Don't be above Roy, that's a VERY bad idea." Just apply that weak spike effect to the tip so you can pull people down into an utilt and you are good to go.
Fsmash might need to be toned down. It needs more testing. As of right now it's like being blasted by Marth's tip except any ****** could do it. I can kinda see why Sakurai made Roy's smash weaker for this very reason. Maybe whenever you figure out how to enlarge the tip hitbox and shrink the sweetspot it will be fine, but right now it's too powerful. Even with it being so laggy, I'm thinking it's not all that hard to combo into. Hell we are designing this guy to get combos into his fsmash. At least for now, I don't think it would hurt to tone this move down a bit.
Downsmash is sorta meh. The tip on it is amazing though, and ironically the tip was the best way (in my opinion) to use Roy's downsmash in melee. So with that said, not every move should be amazing, and this move has uses so I say we are good.
Upsmash is still a bit bork, but we all know that.
Up B is also bork. If we can't make the multihit thing work then we'll have to rethink this move. I will say this, we need to increase the size of the hitbox that allows for reverse blazer, and it needs insane BKB and 0 growth. It doesn't need to be much larger, just enough to where you don't have to be inside the opponent to land a reverse blazer.
LOL at neutral B.
Dancing blade seems great to me. Since Marth's version was improved I think keeping it working pretty much the same is a good idea. Making it better than Marth's would just be silly considering how good Marth's is. I like that the 3rd hit up spikes. Perhaps make the fire hits deal more damage? At least that way you could say Roy's is marginally better? All in all, it's fine as is.
I don't even know what counter does right now. I would say to just plug in the same stuff it had in Melee, lower the window to counter something by a handful of frames and it will be good to go.
Now for throws!
Upthrow should have more growth. It should be able to kill moderately heavy people at around 150% or so. The base seems good, very melee like.
Fthrow seems good, also melee like. A little less base and very low growth. Roy shouldn't be able to fsmash from no DI, but he should be close.
Bthrow needs to send out at a more upward angle, or at less base and have very little growth. In melee you could bthrow to fsmash due to bad DI at low-medium percents. This should be true for Roy as well.
Similar to Bthrow, except in this version Dthrow needs to send mostly straight up, even more than bthrow. Bthrow, Dthrow, and Fthrow should be a guessing game, in which if Roy correctly guesses where his opponent DI's then he gets a free fsmash. So if they DI away then Dthrow will set up for fsmash, if they DI up then Bthrow sets up for an fsmash. If they think they are really crafty and DI up and away then you could fsmash from forward throw. Again, these things should only work like this at low-medium percents.
In closing, it seems as if we are building a character that combos like a mother****er, has really good setups at low percentages to kill early, but he begins to taper off at high percentages. When the opponent hits really high percentages, more options open up. So yeah, it's pretty cool how it seems to be working out. I hope this post helps.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Oh god, I didn't even think about how the game would function in regards to Kirby. I'm thinking that he'll just have to be down with just stealing Marth's.
Also, reading the thread as it has progressed, some of the things I said might not be correct. If Roy gets combo ***** then it'd be best to lessen his gravity a bit. Perhaps leave the FF as incredibly mighty or something, that way he will still have the speed.
Also, fsmash might not be too powerful if Roy is combo bait. That might actually balance the move, allowing for Roy to dish out just as much damage he takes.
Also, reading the thread as it has progressed, some of the things I said might not be correct. If Roy gets combo ***** then it'd be best to lessen his gravity a bit. Perhaps leave the FF as incredibly mighty or something, that way he will still have the speed.
Also, fsmash might not be too powerful if Roy is combo bait. That might actually balance the move, allowing for Roy to dish out just as much damage he takes.
Coming from a kirby main, it really wouldn't bother me if a work around to copy cant be made (i honestly hardly use the move anyways). I must say i do love the fact that i get the better nado from MK tho, and not his weakened one
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Well, maybe they can find a way to work it in, but I dunno, lol. It seems like it'd be very hard to do. Overall it's not too terribly important. The main reason I'd like to have it is just so that it would feel more professional.
•Col•
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Messages
- 2,450
If you really want to improve Roy's recovery, you could always try messing around with his Side B, rather than just his Up B. Maybe make it so that his Side B will raise him up slightly 3 times, rather than just 1?
I dunno... Just know that there are other ways to improve his recovery rather than just changing the Blazer move.
EDIT: Also, as for Blazer as an attack... Since you're having trouble getting it to multi-hit, I like someone's earlier suggestion to make it send them straight up (like how Luigi's Up B does). I think that'd be a good way to distinguish it from Marth's Up B. ^_^ Maybe it could even be made into one of his kill moves, toward the higher percents? Like around 120%-140%? Could be interesting.
I dunno... Just know that there are other ways to improve his recovery rather than just changing the Blazer move.
EDIT: Also, as for Blazer as an attack... Since you're having trouble getting it to multi-hit, I like someone's earlier suggestion to make it send them straight up (like how Luigi's Up B does). I think that'd be a good way to distinguish it from Marth's Up B. ^_^ Maybe it could even be made into one of his kill moves, toward the higher percents? Like around 120%-140%? Could be interesting.
Liquid Gen
Smash Ace
His dtilt is a sex combo starter, and his ftilt is just plain good.
I main Roy.
EDIT: Nevermind. apparently my computer blocks files from mediafire automatically, so i had to unblock it, ha.
I main Roy.
EDIT: Nevermind. apparently my computer blocks files from mediafire automatically, so i had to unblock it, ha.
MK26
Smash Master
if you speed the up-b up substantially, it'll go further upward; same with the side-b
As a Kirby main, if Fox and Falco get air control during lazers, i want it too
u dont need to edit kirby's nado tho
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
K I did a little updating before my friend came over this evening. Here are all the changes since the 6:45 GCT. A new GCT should be up after this post:
I played low gravity mode to see how it would effect Roy's recovery moves and it seems that Up-B isn't effected by low gravity mode. Unless low grav mode doesn't effect up-grav I don't know why Roy's Blazer is such a god awful recovery. Also, speeding it up did not increase the distance he would travel. If anything it felt like a nerf.
I'll edit N-air tonight and try and get that into the set as well as try and figure out exactly which attack sounds sound like what. We can take a vote here on what we want Roy's sword swings to sound like.
- Slightly less D-grav
- D-tilt is 25% faster from frame 21. The IASA frames kick in at frame 21 so this does not adjust how fast Roy can multi-poke, just how fast he can go into something else.
- D-smash blade hits are now 20 damage instead of 15. The base was dropped by 4, but it did receive a KB buff with the damage increase
- B-air landing lag was dropped from 75% ALR to 50%
- D-air landing lag was dropped from 100% ALR to 50%
- Up-B now does a single hit for 9 damage. Against Link it pops him up as high as Roy goes and places Link right behind Roy.
- Third hit on the neutral side-b does slightly more damage.
I played low gravity mode to see how it would effect Roy's recovery moves and it seems that Up-B isn't effected by low gravity mode. Unless low grav mode doesn't effect up-grav I don't know why Roy's Blazer is such a god awful recovery. Also, speeding it up did not increase the distance he would travel. If anything it felt like a nerf.
I'll edit N-air tonight and try and get that into the set as well as try and figure out exactly which attack sounds sound like what. We can take a vote here on what we want Roy's sword swings to sound like.
CloudxStrife
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2009
- Messages
- 11
hey would u mind putting up the .txt file in addition to the .gct file so my codemanager can read it? cuz i want to put other codes in with the roy hack.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Should be there. If you wait about 20-30 minutes I'm gonna have a new set up.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
New set is up. I'll probably tweak one or two things tomorrow, but I'm gonna let this set hang around for the week to get some real good feedback. I got a lot done today and I'm really thankful to everyone that gave feedback, it's been a big help. Here are the changes since todays initial set:
- Slightly lower d-gravity
- D-tilt is 25% faster from frame 21. The IASA frames kick in at frame 21 so this does not adjust how fast Roy can multi-poke, just how fast he can go into something else.
- D-smash blade hits are now 20 damage instead of 15. The base was dropped by 4, but it did receive a KB buff with the damage increase
- B-air landing lag was dropped from 75% ALR to 50%
- D-air landing lag was dropped from 100% ALR to 50%
- Up-B now does a single hit for 9 damage. Against Link it pops him up as high as Roy goes and places Link right behind Roy.
- Third hit on the neutral side-b does slightly more damage.
- Jabs are 25% faster allowing for jab canceling
- F-air blade hits now have a 45 degree angle instead of 30. Base knockback increased by 3
- U-air tips now spike
- F-tilt has slightly more base and growth to make it a high percentage KO move
- D-air nerfed in base knockback
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
The Upair spike is really weird........I mean its cool because its unique but an uair sending an enemy straight down? It doesn't really make sense.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
It's looking really nice right now. Here's what I got:
Downsmash is too powerful right now, you know this, but I'm putting it here so you can check it off later.
Nair tip isn't working :-(.
Uair tip is way too strong XD. It's hilarious though. It's BKB needs to only pull them down just a lil bit so an airborne opponent will fall into utilt range. The growth should be small too, I'd make the growth the same amount as the uair blade hit.
Bair tips spike is so weak, and the blade hit's power is so strong that I'd prefer the blade hit over the tip in most situations. In light of that, I think making the base BKB of the bair tip spike like it currently does at moderate percents and make it have a very very minimal growth would make it more of an early gimp tool, and quite useful.
Ftilt tip combos into bair nicely, although I think if you made the angle of it lower so that at low percents it puts them into a nifty fsmash position would be nice. Take a lil bit of power off of it too, that way it will be roughly the same distance horizontally, but they would be a tad lower to the ground.
Dtilt tip, on second thought, seems kinda pointless. Maybe if it had less power but sent them at a downward diagonal trajectory it'd be better. Either that or make it a weak but pure spike. Even then, Roy has enough spikes. Perhaps have it function like I originally said would still be good. Basically like the ftilt tip does, just much weaker so that at high percents it puts them off the ground and close to Roy, a perfect setup for fsmash.
Utilt needs to be slower, broader sweeping like the fsmash to catch airdodges, and more powerful. Uair to utilt combo would be siiiiiiiiick ****. Also, utilt tip should spike like the uair tilt currently does. Bringing them slamming to the ground so you can then start up some mindgames on their wakeup.
UpB should turn Roy's opponent around. It's just a lil extra flavor, and a bit of disorientation would be nice and defensive.
For the lulz, make every hit of the poking attacks (4th attack down of dancing blade) flip the opponent. Just make sure that they end up facing you. It'd be hilarious to see people on fire and doing a lil dance.
Downsmash is too powerful right now, you know this, but I'm putting it here so you can check it off later.
Nair tip isn't working :-(.
Uair tip is way too strong XD. It's hilarious though. It's BKB needs to only pull them down just a lil bit so an airborne opponent will fall into utilt range. The growth should be small too, I'd make the growth the same amount as the uair blade hit.
Bair tips spike is so weak, and the blade hit's power is so strong that I'd prefer the blade hit over the tip in most situations. In light of that, I think making the base BKB of the bair tip spike like it currently does at moderate percents and make it have a very very minimal growth would make it more of an early gimp tool, and quite useful.
Ftilt tip combos into bair nicely, although I think if you made the angle of it lower so that at low percents it puts them into a nifty fsmash position would be nice. Take a lil bit of power off of it too, that way it will be roughly the same distance horizontally, but they would be a tad lower to the ground.
Dtilt tip, on second thought, seems kinda pointless. Maybe if it had less power but sent them at a downward diagonal trajectory it'd be better. Either that or make it a weak but pure spike. Even then, Roy has enough spikes. Perhaps have it function like I originally said would still be good. Basically like the ftilt tip does, just much weaker so that at high percents it puts them off the ground and close to Roy, a perfect setup for fsmash.
Utilt needs to be slower, broader sweeping like the fsmash to catch airdodges, and more powerful. Uair to utilt combo would be siiiiiiiiick ****. Also, utilt tip should spike like the uair tilt currently does. Bringing them slamming to the ground so you can then start up some mindgames on their wakeup.
UpB should turn Roy's opponent around. It's just a lil extra flavor, and a bit of disorientation would be nice and defensive.
For the lulz, make every hit of the poking attacks (4th attack down of dancing blade) flip the opponent. Just make sure that they end up facing you. It'd be hilarious to see people on fire and doing a lil dance.
You have a sick mind mookie... those are some odd changes
Man good going you guys. He is SOooo ****ing fun. Its like he has all this depth due to the tips and sword hits ... unlike marth whos are just more powerfull tipped. Hes actually difficult to play as. You get ***** if you dont know what does what and what chains into what, But once ya get it hes so slick its insane.
I have been playing him like all **** night vs cpu and humans
these are all problems I have with him small or large- (you might already know some but Im going to list what I see)
Big problems:
why does dair still spike? roys dair should not spike.. thats one of the things that roy players know all to well. Bair tip should be roys air spike. Its so much cooler and different.wich brings me to=
Bair spike should be stronger and be his primary off stage spike.
Fsmash does less damage than marths and its also alot slower.Now it should be slower, but the damage is only 10 tipped, 15 sword hit wich is low considering marths 19 tipped 14 sword hit, and the fact that marths is faster and more powerfull than roys when tipped. I'm not saying roys should be anymore powerfull than it is now since sword hits are much easier than tips. I just think roy should do more damage than marth for such a slow move. ( 14 tip 18 full hit is what I say)
Usmash is still god awfull . Its very punishable on block or on a sour hit. Almost never does the 18 damage its sopposed to. I get the 9% hit and the completely useless 5% spike most often.
So right now Its not good for killing, damage, follow ups, or mind games its only good for mixing it up and **** bait.
His recovery is that of a char that should completely destroy on stage like worse than meta. Sadly hes just adverage on stage. But you know this. I just want to type all my concerns.
Small annoyances:
Fair is complete **** and theres never a reason to not use nair. Mostly becuase of the 5 damage tipped, and 8 damage sword hit (7 tipped 9 full hit looks more usefull)
uair has almost no stun and does really really low damage I can just barely get off 3 on a super fast faller and barely connect 2 on a medium faller the damage is just sad. Hes not squirtle or pika he needs more damage on this thing. ( 8 would make alot more sense) I havent tried the spike but that sounds ridiculous >_>
The trajectory of his run attack doesnt allow for follow ups. and its pretty punishable.. so really theres no reason I can find to ever use it. guess this can be his usless move like links ftilt.
His Nair is still useing marths principles which is makes it feel kinda crummy for lack of a better word. the (tip is still the power/damage part)
I agree that dsmash is a little to powerfull in the front sword hit. It kills mario on fd at about 90% (mabye 110/115?)
useing dair off stage is a death sentence.
Ok all that might seem like alot but most are minor or you probley havent gotten around to them. So yeh thats all that dont like or thats holding him back.
Man good going you guys. He is SOooo ****ing fun. Its like he has all this depth due to the tips and sword hits ... unlike marth whos are just more powerfull tipped. Hes actually difficult to play as. You get ***** if you dont know what does what and what chains into what, But once ya get it hes so slick its insane.
I have been playing him like all **** night vs cpu and humans
these are all problems I have with him small or large- (you might already know some but Im going to list what I see)
Big problems:
why does dair still spike? roys dair should not spike.. thats one of the things that roy players know all to well. Bair tip should be roys air spike. Its so much cooler and different.wich brings me to=
Bair spike should be stronger and be his primary off stage spike.
Fsmash does less damage than marths and its also alot slower.Now it should be slower, but the damage is only 10 tipped, 15 sword hit wich is low considering marths 19 tipped 14 sword hit, and the fact that marths is faster and more powerfull than roys when tipped. I'm not saying roys should be anymore powerfull than it is now since sword hits are much easier than tips. I just think roy should do more damage than marth for such a slow move. ( 14 tip 18 full hit is what I say)
Usmash is still god awfull . Its very punishable on block or on a sour hit. Almost never does the 18 damage its sopposed to. I get the 9% hit and the completely useless 5% spike most often.
So right now Its not good for killing, damage, follow ups, or mind games its only good for mixing it up and **** bait.
His recovery is that of a char that should completely destroy on stage like worse than meta. Sadly hes just adverage on stage. But you know this. I just want to type all my concerns.
Small annoyances:
Fair is complete **** and theres never a reason to not use nair. Mostly becuase of the 5 damage tipped, and 8 damage sword hit (7 tipped 9 full hit looks more usefull)
uair has almost no stun and does really really low damage I can just barely get off 3 on a super fast faller and barely connect 2 on a medium faller the damage is just sad. Hes not squirtle or pika he needs more damage on this thing. ( 8 would make alot more sense) I havent tried the spike but that sounds ridiculous >_>
The trajectory of his run attack doesnt allow for follow ups. and its pretty punishable.. so really theres no reason I can find to ever use it. guess this can be his usless move like links ftilt.
His Nair is still useing marths principles which is makes it feel kinda crummy for lack of a better word. the (tip is still the power/damage part)
I agree that dsmash is a little to powerfull in the front sword hit. It kills mario on fd at about 90% (mabye 110/115?)
useing dair off stage is a death sentence.
Ok all that might seem like alot but most are minor or you probley havent gotten around to them. So yeh thats all that dont like or thats holding him back.
Sukai
Smash Champion
Alright, finally got to try it, I have the latest version.
I'll address each move and my impression of it.
Jab: Pretty standard, but make the second his have a higher knockback, with an angle around 30/35 degrees.
Forward Tilt: No comment really, didn't like it, didn't dislike it, I like it's cool down though.
Up Tilt: Just like old Roy, perfect.
Down Tilt: Oh dear goodness, don't get down tilted at high percentages, it kills. Tone it down a bit it should lock at low percentages, but should never kill unless it's sudden death, give the tip much, much less knockback gain
Pummel: Awesome.
Neutral Air: Did you take my suggestion?
Forward Air: It's all kinds of tricky, but okay to work with.
Back Air: Meh, it's fine.
Down Air: Eh? I guess...? Nothing really wrong with it, Roy's down air always sucked, so it passes.
Up Air: Good God, get rid of the spike, too broken, too broken, Roy'll be the Meta Knight of Brawl+!
Forward Smash: I like, the perfect amount of power and the perfect amount of speed, just like Roy, but as with the down tilt suggestion, give the tip substantially less knockback gain.
Down Smash: Tipped--Toon Link Called..you know the joke, give the first hitbox (tip) more of a lateral knockback angle in the right direction and less gain, give the second what the first has right now.
Up Smash: All the problems here have already been addressed, no need for my input here.
Flare Blade: See Up smash, it really just needs to have a slower charge, look into how Ike's Eruption is sped up in his "super" codeset, the same principles should apply.
Double Edge Dance: I don't see a problem with it, it's perfect, make the last forward hit stronger and the last up hit a spike.
Counter: Make the actual counter period more strict.
Blazer: Eww... Keep the vertical knockback though.
And there.
I'll address each move and my impression of it.
Jab: Pretty standard, but make the second his have a higher knockback, with an angle around 30/35 degrees.
Forward Tilt: No comment really, didn't like it, didn't dislike it, I like it's cool down though.
Up Tilt: Just like old Roy, perfect.
Down Tilt: Oh dear goodness, don't get down tilted at high percentages, it kills. Tone it down a bit it should lock at low percentages, but should never kill unless it's sudden death, give the tip much, much less knockback gain
Pummel: Awesome.
Neutral Air: Did you take my suggestion?
Forward Air: It's all kinds of tricky, but okay to work with.
Back Air: Meh, it's fine.
Down Air: Eh? I guess...? Nothing really wrong with it, Roy's down air always sucked, so it passes.
Up Air: Good God, get rid of the spike, too broken, too broken, Roy'll be the Meta Knight of Brawl+!
Forward Smash: I like, the perfect amount of power and the perfect amount of speed, just like Roy, but as with the down tilt suggestion, give the tip substantially less knockback gain.
Down Smash: Tipped--Toon Link Called..you know the joke, give the first hitbox (tip) more of a lateral knockback angle in the right direction and less gain, give the second what the first has right now.
Up Smash: All the problems here have already been addressed, no need for my input here.
Flare Blade: See Up smash, it really just needs to have a slower charge, look into how Ike's Eruption is sped up in his "super" codeset, the same principles should apply.
Double Edge Dance: I don't see a problem with it, it's perfect, make the last forward hit stronger and the last up hit a spike.
Counter: Make the actual counter period more strict.
Blazer: Eww... Keep the vertical knockback though.
And there.
Wolfric
Smash Journeyman
In my opinion, you should make that Roy the same as the Melee one, as in his lagg after hits, and not leave him as Marth.
Marth hasn't changed so much since SSBM to SSBB, it's mostly the same, having the same Melee Roy on Brawl would b more likely by people, that's just my opinion thought.
Marth hasn't changed so much since SSBM to SSBB, it's mostly the same, having the same Melee Roy on Brawl would b more likely by people, that's just my opinion thought.
If you do this then the effort to make this possible isn't worth it. Why? Because Roy was a trash tier character that very few did well with...and even then, the best characters would just tear him down.
If one is to reintroduce him in Brawl, he needs a makeover to make him appealing, and a REAL character, not some overshadowed clone who only appeals to pyromaniacs.
Also Marth did change a lot in his transition as well. His transitioned from a combo and gimp character to a mediocre-powered speed hitter that is superb in stage control but is doomed if he loses it similar to any strategy game at high level play, especially as all his tipped moves have too much hitlag to combo and all his moves default trajectories don't favor comboing, except for juggling (AKA Brawl game engine doesn't cater to Marth at all). At best, he has transitioned from a horizontal combo game to a vertical one.
Things may not always look as simple as they may be. ^_^
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
It's a spike because it could spike in melee, it's just that you had to be right on top of them to do it. The only way I was able to semi do it consistently was from the ledge, and that was risky as balls and more than not saved my opponent. It was sexy if it landed though. In any case, Roy's dair has more of a use now, but still isn't a great move. Bair is probably going to be the spike of choice, simply cause you can tip them and spike without being on top of them.
Also, if bair spike was too strong then it'd be way too good. Roy is giving up a lot of power for the ability to spike someone from a move with a lot of horizontal reach. If you don't think this is that great, go talk to Bowser and DK players that are cringing at the thought of a spike like that.
Actually, I think the tip should do really ****ty damage on this move and should be something to avoid. That way the move would be more balanced. In any case, I don't mind the damage much as is, but it couldn't hurt for it to do more damage either. On the issue of speed though, it being slow is also a blessing. In Melee, it was relatively easy to punish techs and rolls if you could predict them. In Brawl, if you are trying to do something like smash someone with Marth's tip, it's amazingly hard to time to hit them out of rolls and dodges. With Roy though, because it's slow the hitbox stays out for a long time, and it punishes THE HELL out of stuff. Honestly, it's an amazing and beautiful thing.
Fair combos into downsmash at low percents. That in itself does a ton of damage. Fair is also useful at higher percents when nair knocks them too far away to combo. Granted, I haven't spent that much time with the move, but it's not that bad. I do think it still needs work.
He told me specifically that it wasn't working last night. He'll probably work on it today to find out what is wrong and why it isn't doing what it's supposed to.
As it should be. I can imagine most people pulling off a bair spike, then getting back to the ledge and possibly dair spiking from the ledge. It would also be possible to dair spike someone slightly off the ledge if they forgot Roy's dair spiked. It's not the greatest spike ever, but it's very useful.
Wolfric
Smash Journeyman
Yet, if this keeps going, Roy will end up being better than Metaknight.
Also..How can you say Roy is a clone of Marth? It could be the other way around, they were both clones, people seem to degrade Roy by saying HE was the clone, kinda silly hahah.
Also..How can you say Roy is a clone of Marth? It could be the other way around, they were both clones, people seem to degrade Roy by saying HE was the clone, kinda silly hahah.
I agree, bring back our boy not an imposter. Even if it means making him crappy.
CloudxStrife
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2009
- Messages
- 11
alright not to be a noob or anything but is the set of codes next to the "To Do List" the .txt file of the .gct file? If so, wouldnt this screw up all the other characters? or did u make it so it only applies to marth?
Marth came before Roy. Marth is the original Fire Emblem Lord, and is THE Fire Emblem Representative. Thus Roy is a clone. Let's not bring this debate back up, because it's really not even a debate.
...Then that would defeat the purpose of Brawl+...which is...OH YOU KNOW.
Balance. :|
Wolfric
Smash Journeyman
Marth came before Roy? they both showed up in Melee so no one really came before the other one, your statement would be right if Marth had appeared in a more recent Smash, which he didn't. We're not talking about their Games or FE releases, this is Smash, not Fire Emblem, and in Smash, the both showed up together.
Also, bring balance to Brawl? Alright, why don't we all balance up Ganondorf and Captain Falcon and make them high tier? Oh wait, then we'll have to mess everyone up to make them higher tier, so it matchs Metaknight, oh wait, then Meta Knight would be low tier, we'll have to get him up!
Also, bring balance to Brawl? Alright, why don't we all balance up Ganondorf and Captain Falcon and make them high tier? Oh wait, then we'll have to mess everyone up to make them higher tier, so it matchs Metaknight, oh wait, then Meta Knight would be low tier, we'll have to get him up!
Arkaether
Smash Ace
The content in the post above mine has left me completely speechless. He thinks Falcon is low tier. What the ****.
Wolfric
Smash Journeyman
Isn't Falcon low tiered in Brawl? lmao
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214428
Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps the Tier list is from down to above?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214428
Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps the Tier list is from down to above?
TLMSheikant
Smash Master
Wow....agree with u arkaether. That post just gave me a headache. And Roy should not come back the same as he was in melee obviously. He should be better. I think he should be faster...also fix his dair so that it isnt suicide offstage...his upB would be great if it was multi hit like in melee or had more vertical knockback and could actually kill...Thats my two cents. For now what i most like about him is his fsmash. It feels like it should.
Wolfric
Smash Journeyman
O_o So the list is outdated? I wasn't talking about Melee Tiers, I was talking about Brawl tiers, and is C. Falcon really High tiered? If so, the list is from below to above? <_<
MK26
Smash Master
Falcon is most definitely not bottom tier in Brawl+
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Falcon is low tier in Brawl, but not Brawl+. He is very good in B+.
As far as Roy's balance goes, we have a long way to go for that. Right now we are working on his gameplay mechanics and moveset. Once those have been figured out and he plays like we want him too, then we will buff and nerf him, whatever he needs, to fit in with the rest of the cast.
Honestly though, if Roy ends up being the best overall, that's just because Sakurai has absolutely no idea how to design a character to be well. All of the actually good characters in Brawl seemed to be so by accident, or because they were just vastly better than the rest of the cast. The best example of this is Link, whom is complete trash in Brawl, but whenever we tweaked his moveset to... you know... make sense, he's all the sudden really good. I honestly have very, very little respect for a lot of the team behind Brawl for this reason. Sakurai's overly bull****ty ideals that "everyone should be a winner" combined with his team of "melee players" that created such blatantly terrible characters as Brawl Falcon, Link, and Jiggs... It boggles my mind. Some of the worst ideas I heard for Roy's moveset back here, as well as some ******** buffs I've heard in other threads, makes more sense than a lot of stuff that actually made it in Brawl.
If Roy becomes better than Meta that's ok, as long as Roy isn't so good that he dominates. The goal of B+ is to balance things as much as possible, as to make every character capable of winning a tournament regardless of their placement on a tier list. There will always be a tier list, because perfect balance is impossible, but if the gap between each tier is miniscule then tiers wouldn't matter all that much.
As far as Roy's balance goes, we have a long way to go for that. Right now we are working on his gameplay mechanics and moveset. Once those have been figured out and he plays like we want him too, then we will buff and nerf him, whatever he needs, to fit in with the rest of the cast.
Honestly though, if Roy ends up being the best overall, that's just because Sakurai has absolutely no idea how to design a character to be well. All of the actually good characters in Brawl seemed to be so by accident, or because they were just vastly better than the rest of the cast. The best example of this is Link, whom is complete trash in Brawl, but whenever we tweaked his moveset to... you know... make sense, he's all the sudden really good. I honestly have very, very little respect for a lot of the team behind Brawl for this reason. Sakurai's overly bull****ty ideals that "everyone should be a winner" combined with his team of "melee players" that created such blatantly terrible characters as Brawl Falcon, Link, and Jiggs... It boggles my mind. Some of the worst ideas I heard for Roy's moveset back here, as well as some ******** buffs I've heard in other threads, makes more sense than a lot of stuff that actually made it in Brawl.
Wolfric
Smash Journeyman
I've been talking about Brawl, not Brawl+, So you can stop the flaming against me guys.
MK26
Smash Master
Therein lies the problem. lrn2SmashWorkshop
I concur to this statement. Sakurai tried so hard that he ended up failing in the end. Surprise, surprise. (Perhaps he was subliminally talking about "Everyone can be a winner!... with MY characters." Haha.
)In any case, hoping this project works to fruition. I'd love to see a Lucario-turned-Mewtwo and quite possibly a Mario-turned-Doc in the near future. Not saying you all behind this should make it, but rather inspire others to pick up into this whole process.
And with model hacking seemingly just around the corner... perhaps all this could become even more thorough.
MookieRah
Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Also, understand that tier lists will exist no matter what, and even if we continued to buff and nerf characters, there will still be a tier list. Some characters will be better than others. The only way to have a perfectly balanced game is to have only one character.
If every character is good, then the tiers won't matter as much. If winning with the bottom tier guy is something that happens relatively often, then we have done our job. The most accurate part of any tier list is the top two categories, and after that what's left in the middle is REALLY hard to figure out. Imagine if the entire cast was as hard to pin down as the mid tier.
@Steelia
I want Mewtwo in like crazy. He's my boy. So is Roy. When we have the ability to make a professional Mewtwo, I will be on top of that mofo, and I will make him amazing. I already have several ideas to improve him.
If every character is good, then the tiers won't matter as much. If winning with the bottom tier guy is something that happens relatively often, then we have done our job. The most accurate part of any tier list is the top two categories, and after that what's left in the middle is REALLY hard to figure out. Imagine if the entire cast was as hard to pin down as the mid tier.
@Steelia
I want Mewtwo in like crazy. He's my boy. So is Roy. When we have the ability to make a professional Mewtwo, I will be on top of that mofo, and I will make him amazing. I already have several ideas to improve him.