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Butter Your Bread Episode 1: Frame Traps

LiteralGrill

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Youtube Channel Smash Entity has released the first video in its upcoming Butter Your Bread series, a series designed to teach Smash players vital parts of the game they play. Episode one discusses frame traps, an incredibly useful and necessary thing to understand in top level play. Give the video a watch and try to implement frame traps in an upcoming game!


SmashCapps is always excited for new series on teaching Smash, and is always on the lookout for new videos to cover. Follow him on Twitter to tweet out excellent Smash tutorial videos!
 

Xermo

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A lot of over-editing on the intro (30 seconds really?), music blares over his voice which is quiet, probably a bad mic, and that video thumbnail was pretty...ugh.
 

LiteralGrill

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A lot of over-editing on the intro (30 seconds really?), music blares over his voice which is quiet, probably a bad mic, and that video thumbnail was pretty...ugh.
From the video on Youtube itself, it said he would be trying to reupload it with some better mic quality. Normally I shy away from bad mics on videos but it's good info from a good Smasher and I have hopes that will happen.
 

Trunks159

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A lot of over-editing on the intro (30 seconds really?), music blares over his voice which is quiet, probably a bad mic, and that video thumbnail was pretty...ugh.
Oh stop it, you know you can skip it. His voice is just fine.
 

Xermo

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Oh stop it, you know you can skip it. His voice is just fine.
The point being I shouldn't have to skip it. His voice is not fine, otherwise I wouldn't be saying anything about it. I shouldn't need 100% volume to hear over the music.
Critique (or complaints) is to be expected when making videos as such.
 
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Spak

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@2:45: Competitive Sm4sh Fox == lvl 9 CPU Melee Fox

I shudder to think something like that would actually be a legit thing.

EDIT: Also, I think that the thing he showed after SF4 was just pure spacing, not a frame trap.
 
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D

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@2:45: Competitive Sm4sh Fox == lvl 9 CPU Melee Fox

I shudder to think something like that would actually be a legit thing.

EDIT: Also, I think that the thing he showed after SF4 was just pure spacing, not a frame trap.
Fox has a jab lock to usmash/dsmash across the stage.
 

AuraMaudeGone

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@2:45: Competitive Sm4sh Fox == lvl 9 CPU Melee Fox

I shudder to think something like that would actually be a legit thing.

EDIT: Also, I think that the thing he showed after SF4 was just pure spacing, not a frame trap.
Yea, some of the examples seem like whiff punishes to me.
 

darkrailink1 (dl1)

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Youtube Channel Smash Entity has released the first video in its upcoming Butter Your Bread series, a series designed to teach Smash players vital parts of the game they play. Episode one discusses frame traps, an incredibly useful and necessary thing to understand in top level play. Give the video a watch and try to implement frame traps in an upcoming game!


SmashCapps is always excited for new series on teaching Smash, and is always on the lookout for new videos to cover. Follow him on Twitter to tweet out excellent Smash tutorial videos!
to be honest i dont agree with playing with new moves, pls dont kill me
 

kinbobbobkin

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Very interesting video. Funny thing, I feel the Falco's jabs don't connect sometimes when doing a string combo, like the frames pass through the opponent making me an easy aim. :/
 

Squiiidzoid

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These were not frametraps, these were correctly spacing a move and the opponent punishing like a ******, doing a standing grab that would cleary never hit. An example of a frametrap is Mario's Downthrow to Uptilt strings. The opponent cannot do anything except airdodge, because all other moves are too slow, and if the opponent airdodges, they will dodge the Uptilt, but hit the ground and suffer airdodge landing lag, and since Mario has the FRAME advantage, they will be hit by the next Uptilt, meaning no matter what they do they will be hit by Uptilt, and are TRAPPED. Therefore, they are Frame Trapped.
 

Sausage Zeldas

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These were not frametraps, these were correctly spacing a move and the opponent punishing like a ******, doing a standing grab that would cleary never hit. An example of a frametrap is Mario's Downthrow to Uptilt strings. The opponent cannot do anything except airdodge, because all other moves are too slow, and if the opponent airdodges, they will dodge the Uptilt, but hit the ground and suffer airdodge landing lag, and since Mario has the FRAME advantage, they will be hit by the next Uptilt, meaning no matter what they do they will be hit by Uptilt, and are TRAPPED. Therefore, they are Frame Trapped.
Yeah, and that's what they started to show before going on to give a nonsensical definition and demonstrate something entirely different.
 
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Nabbitnator

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I'm not sure if ryu created a frame trap as he did pause between his crouching jab and dp. I feel like that was more of a bait to get a reaction out of the opponent. A frame trap is using moves with positive frame advantage to make the opponent think they can press a button during it. If your move is faster and has more frame advantage. Usually the next move will lead into a hit confirm. Two jabs paused to a dp isn't a frame trap but doing 2 cr.mp to get a counter hit from your opponent from using a move that's during your string too slow is.
 
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Keeseman

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I still have no idea what a "frame trap" is. Can anyone explain it better than this guy did?
 

Sausage Zeldas

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I still have no idea what a "frame trap" is. Can anyone explain it better than this guy did?
How I understood it was that a frame trap was a situation where one person is basically unable to avoid being hit due to hitstun and startup lag.
 

Zelbur

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A frame trap is also a situation where, whatever the opponent does in that situation, you can react and hit him whether he air dodges, throws out a move, or does nothing (or other options).
 
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Gwana

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That ip man music made my day
 

B.A.M.

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The point being I shouldn't have to skip it. His voice is not fine, otherwise I wouldn't be saying anything about it. I shouldn't need 100% volume to hear over the music.
Critique (or complaints) is to be expected when making videos as such.
And I appreciate the critiques
 

B.A.M.

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How I understood it was that a frame trap was a situation where one person is basically unable to avoid being hit due to hitstun and startup lag.
Yeah most people do in the smash community and that is wrong. Which is part of the reason the video was made. Frame traps are pretty much a misnomer in the community.
 

The 0ne

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Overly complicated, especially in the definitions. There's a difference in using long sentences and big words BECUASE you're smart and doing it to SOUND smart. I learned very little.

Plus I'm pretty sure the point of this video was shield pressure, not frame traps.

Can anyone tell me the difference between frame trap and option select?
 

B.A.M.

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I'm not sure if ryu created a frame trap as he did pause between his crouching jab and dp. I feel like that was more of a bait to get a reaction out of the opponent. A frame trap is using moves with positive frame advantage to make the opponent think they can press a button during it. If your move is faster and has more frame advantage. Usually the next move will lead into a hit confirm. Two jabs paused to a dp isn't a frame trap but doing 2 cr.mp to get a counter hit from your opponent from using a move that's during your string too slow is.
The Dp is in fact a frame trap. it functions differently because the invinc

Yeah, and that's what they started to show before going on to give a nonsensical definition and demonstrate something entirely different.
I apologize for my explanation not working for you. However that is what a traditional frame trap is. This isn't something that was just made up; this is what it's meant since the SF2 era.

The issue is ( and I should've explained this moreso ( might just make a video on this entirely) ) smashers for awhile didn't know what to call set ups involving catching an airdodge. Someone started calling them aerial frame traps and it stuck. Then because people didn't know what frame traps were they came to the conclusion that frame traps were only that thing.

Which seems fine in the smash community but is completely off in terms of other fighting game communities. it's proper to have universal terminology, because then we can understand the commonalities of top level play.

It's like the language barrier and different cultures.
 

KCB: Cloth

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Overly complicated, especially in the definitions. There's a difference in using long sentences and big words BECUASE you're smart and doing it to SOUND smart. I learned very little.

Plus I'm pretty sure the point of this video was shield pressure, not frame traps.

Can anyone tell me the difference between frame trap and option select?
Yeah the difference
is that you're a douchebag and yolo

Keep the hate to yourself
 
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B.A.M.

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Well I'm glad to hear a critique about my wording. Honest to goodness it has nothing to do with trying to sound smart. I will definitely watch my wording and make something more easily accessible; I mean what's the point of words if it can't be understood? I honestly think people forget the key differences in words in English in comparison to other languages though, there certain specifics lost because people just want to categorize one meaning to a ton of similar words.

That's where I'm coming from with my verbiage. Anyways like I said people don't need to look at where this terminology came from. This isn't just "spacing" either.

I would suggest everyone to watch Smash tutorial spacing by waffle77. I hope my next video will cause less confusion as I underestimated some of the misunderstandings. I will probably make a supplemental video for this discussion.
 
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Squiiidzoid

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Yeah most people do in the smash community and that is wrong. Which is part of the reason the video was made. Frame traps are pretty much a misnomer in the community.
These were not frametraps, these were correctly spacing a move and the opponent punishing like a ******, doing a standing grab that would cleary never hit. An example of a frametrap is Mario's Downthrow to Uptilt strings. The opponent cannot do anything except airdodge, because all other moves are too slow, and if the opponent airdodges, they will dodge the Uptilt, but hit the ground and suffer airdodge landing lag, and since Mario has the FRAME advantage, they will be hit by the next Uptilt, meaning no matter what they do they will be hit by Uptilt, and are TRAPPED. Therefore, they are Frame Trapped.
no, a frametrap in this game is what i said. The top player in the world, ZeRo also agrees https://youtu.be/bPwplk90u2U?t=15m56s
 

Sausage Zeldas

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I apologize for my explanation not working for you. However that is what a traditional frame trap is. This isn't something that was just made up; this is what it's meant since the SF2 era.
I appreciate that you're tactfully responding to critiques/complaints.
My confusion isn't just from the video explaining something different that what I expected; it's mostly from two things:
1. The video started off with clips of what I did expect (inescapable strings).
2. I couldn't make heads or tails of the definition at the beginning ("A punishable gap in a string..."). Is it the gap or the string of attacks that can beat attacking options? Is this a gap in time, space, inputs, or what? Whose gap is it? Who's able to punish the gap? Also why does it start with "is"?
 
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fromundaman

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Solid video. I didn't find this too confusing, but then again, I come from a FGC background so this is what I've always thought of frame traps as.

That said, lots of good information in this video; good job!
 
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SmashBro99

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I could hear him just fine, do you guys have hearing problems?
 

Baby_Sneak

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well, i loved the vid. it was hard to hear and stuff, but i learned some good stuff. i recognize frame traps as a situation where a attack seems punishable, but is actually advantageous on block, like D3's dtilt, or ganon's upsmash.
 
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