Breaking the Ice - Ice Climbers DLC Discussion Thread - Under New Ownership!

[lightdasher]

You think it's well done? I honestly think it looks pretty crap compared to other things I've drawn, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder eh?

 

[Marigi174]

You think it's well done? I honestly think it looks pretty crap compared to other things I've drawn, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder eh?

If that is crap compared to ur other work ur other work must be godlike...

 

[ROBnWatch]

You think it's well done? I honestly think it looks pretty crap compared to other things I've drawn, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder eh?

If that is crap compared to ur other work ur other work must be godlike...

Ya, show me another piece of your work so I can compare.

Also, here we go again with the double avatar thing...

 

[lightdasher]

Ya, show me another piece of your work so I can compare.

Also, here we go again with the double avatar thing...

If that is crap compared to ur other work ur other work must be godlike...

Just drew this now

 

[ROBnWatch]

Just drew this now

O.O

You win. But I honestly think both of those are great. Neither of them are crap.

 

[lightdasher]

If you guys keep mixing up your avatars I could make you avatars out of that pic I just made?

 

[ROBnWatch]

If you guys keep mixing up your avatars I could make you avatars out of that pic I just made?

No, we don't mix them up. It's just a joke since we both have the same avatar now. But thanks for the offer!

 

[FancySmash]

Something ironic that I just realized.

In Melee, new modes were added to the 1-Player experience. These being All-Star mode, and Adventure mode. We also saw the Ice Climbers introduced to smash. Skip to Brawl, where the Adventure mode was improved to an elaborate story, and the Ice Climbers were improved in the tier. However, now go to SSB4, where the adventure mode is removed due to implications (the scenes being posted online), and the Ice Climbers were also removed due to implications (3DS had a "hard time" handling them). It's quite odd how Adventure mode and the Ice Climbers were added in Melee, improved upon in Brawl, and taken away in SSB4.

At the same time, it's sad too.

 

[Graizen]

After Mewtwo + 7 there are 5 additional “Mario”s listed. This means, that there are 5 additional unused characters in the fighter table in the latest update. Right now, we know for sure that Lucas is coming. After Lucas, it is heavily suggested that Roy (Fire Emblem) and Ryu (Street Fighter) will be incoming as DLC. Therefore, we have two additional slots for DLC. Whether the two slots will be used for the ballot results, or for pre-ballot result DLC is unknown. Stay tuned for additional information.

https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/18/all-about-ryu-and-roys-files/

 

[lightdasher]

or it could just be those slots are pre-planned DLC

 

[ROBnWatch]

After Mewtwo + 7 there are 5 additional “Mario”s listed. This means, that there are 5 additional unused characters in the fighter table in the latest update. Right now, we know for sure that Lucas is coming. After Lucas, it is heavily suggested that Roy (Fire Emblem) and Ryu (Street Fighter) will be incoming as DLC. Therefore, we have two additional slots for DLC. Whether the two slots will be used for the ballot results, or for pre-ballot result DLC is unknown. Stay tuned for additional information.

https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/18/all-about-ryu-and-roys-files/

Ugh, I'm gonna regret saying this if it turns out to be true but...

I don't think we're getting Roy and Ryu. We've already got the star of Capcom playable, and an Assist Trophy to accompany him. That plus the inclusion of two other 3rd party characters means that we will likely only get one more as DLC (if that). And due to Capcom already being represented, I think the spot should go to another company's character. Roy on the other hand is 1st party, and is the second favored from Melee (the first already being included in game) to return. However, he is somewhat of a clone of Marth (from what I've heard, never got to play Melee) and we already have one of those. They could revamp him, but I think they would have done so by now and he would be in game. Due to this, I think it is plausible to say that both Roy and Ryu were planned, but later scrapped in development. And with the Fighter Ballot just starting up, I think it's likely we will be seeing top picks from this Ballot throughout the course of this year make an appearance as DLC.

Again, if Roy and Ryu get in, I'll be fine with it, so long as ICies are included as well.

 

[Flor@]

After Mewtwo + 7 there are 5 additional “Mario”s listed.
https://sourcegaming.wordpress.com/2015/04/18/all-about-ryu-and-roys-files/

No. That is a purely graphical thing that changes when you move from device to device. On some mobile phones it will only show three empty slots or "Marios" (??????). This is... just, no. Shame for the believers of this.
Also I, although I could easily be proven wrong, and then completely flustered and irritated by the inclusion of Roy, do not think that Roy and Ryu are both joining the Smash 4 roster. I guess supposedly the data-miner is a trusted source, but honestly I feel like Sakurai is aware enough to perhaps just be trolling us. And what with him openly announcing that he's going to the Fire Emblem-related event sometime soon--I simply feel my "Sakurai is toying with our feelings" senses tingling.

Also, if Roy is getting in, then I will truly despise Sakurai for not getting the ICies in, 3DS making it impossible or whatever. That would be total BS.

EDIT: Reminder that ICies were not included in the release of Smash 4/5 because of the difficulty of putting the ICs in, in addition to their relatively low priority. This does not mean that is impossible to include them on the 3DS, but rather that there are some outstanding challenges that the Smash development team face if they wish to include them just as they were in Melee and Brawl.

 

[Makai Wars]

I feel as if the Smash team reached a certain point when getting the ICs on the 3DS, said 'screw it' and just cut them entirely because they assumed people wouldn't care too much if they were gone.

Even if the ICs don't place first in this ballot, letting Sakurai and co know the ICs are a popular requested character are all that matters.

 

[MagnesD3]

or it could just be those slots are pre-planned DLC

This is what I think. Wolf and Ic's IMO will be the other 2.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

With Smash 4 having a strict deadline, the time constraints are pretty much the main thing that caused the Ice Climbers to get cut with the difficulties on the 3DS being the secondary nuisance that was held against them, followed by a deliberate low priority due to their franchise having "no future." While people out there are immediately counting ICies out of being DLC because their deconfirmation was announced, think about it this way: like what Flor@ said, the team faced an outstanding challenge unique to ICies in particular because of their traditional implementation in Smash. Because they're a two time veteran, have a huge fanbase, are not at all a clone in any way, shape or form, and were assumed to be a guarantee with all these under their belt, the unique issues that were held against them causing them to get cut for a character with such a cult status makes the deconfirmation deemed newsworthy. Would it be as newsworthy saying that Lucas/Wolf was cut due to time constraints? No, that's too obvious and it's the most logical explanation. In my attempts to research on ICies in Smash 4 more than anyone really should, I've been comparing articles, listening to discussions, and read a loose Google translation of the original Famitsu article as well as the comments from Japanese to English. From what I can tell, people in Japan are saying the exact same things we (in general, not particularly this thread) are: "Why not make them Wii U exclusive?" "Why not a solo Ice Climber?" "Hopefully they'll be DLC." and so on. In the articles, I've been trying to find different wording to see if things matched up or not. One article in particular comes from a translated version of Sakurai's Smash Diaries with one section dedicated to the Ice Climbers. http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...ahiro-sakurai-s-super-smash-bros-diaries.aspx

Where is [insert character here]?
I know that no matter how hard we work to get lots of fighters in the game, there are always going to be people who only wonder about the characters that aren’t there. Among them are the Ice Climbers, who were actually in a working stage in the Wii U version during development. However, getting the two of them moving as a pair in the Nintendo 3DS version took a ton of machine power. I had the team innovate a lot to try and get them working, but we had to give up eventually. In fact, also with some of the other fighters we had to keep modifying and modifying until they finally worked. When it comes to characters and series without any future plans – that is, without the prospect for new games to come out soon – those are always going to be a lower priority. As for porting characters from Melee, the original data is now old enough that it’s no longer a simple, straightforward process.

So he emphasizes how he was forced to give up on trying to get ICies to work and hints that the AI was an issue "getting the two of them moving as a pair on the 3DS." I've seen other articles with the wording, "A solution to the issue was not a priority because no future low priority blah blah..." Going off of what he said about other modifications, it probably refers to Charizard, ZSS, Sheik, Olimar, etc. And the Melee porting piece hints the probable reason why Mewtwo was pushed back into DLC. The Ice Climbers can come back. It will just take a little more work. There's more to this situation when you read between the lines.

 

[Flor@]

(...) http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...ahiro-sakurai-s-super-smash-bros-diaries.aspx
There's more to this situation when you read between the lines.

Very informative post. Thanks for the heads up/information. I actually don't think I've read this one--or if I did, I pretty much assumed it was just like the other blog post where Sakurai explains the IC's cut due to the 3DS's blah blah.
It actually almost seems like Sakurai is saying "We tried very hard to include the Ice Climbers, and the team managed to optimize almost everybody BUT the Ice Climbers," which is a little disheartening, but you still seem a little peppy about the whole situation. I'm interested as to why you are still able to hold onto the hope. Is it because so many people want the Ice Climbers back?

Also, am I the only one that finds it odd that Sakurai revived the ICs, included them in Melee AND Brawl, and then cut them from Smash 4? Although honestly, I think it's because Nintendo announced the game before Sakurai even knew it was happening. At least that's what I heard (it may or may not be totally true). Nintendo probably forced him to include it on the 3DS. Damn. They probably should have waited till the new 3DS came out. :/ Might have made Smash less of a hassle to deal with, and probably help other, more complex and graphics-intensive games have a little more freedom. Matter of fact, I feel like Nintendo could EASILY have arranged such a thing: Develop the new 3DS alongside Smash 4--it would be perfectly logical. They both came out VERY near each other's release dates. Why NOT do this? Would it seem weird? I'm sure TONS of new 3DSs would sell. I'm totally puzzled by this.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Very informative post. Thanks for the heads up/information. I actually don't think I've read this one--or if I did, I pretty much assumed it was just like the other blog post where Sakurai explains the IC's cut due to the 3DS's blah blah.
It actually almost seems like Sakurai is saying "We tried very hard to include the Ice Climbers, and the team managed to optimize almost everybody BUT the Ice Climbers," which is a little disheartening, but you still seem a little peppy about the whole situation. I'm interested as to why you are still able to hold onto the hope. Is it because so many people want the Ice Climbers back?

Also, am I the only one that finds it odd that Sakurai revived the ICs, included them in Melee AND Brawl, and then cut them from Smash 4? Although honestly, I think it's because Nintendo announced the game before Sakurai even knew it was happening. At least that's what I heard (it may or may not be totally true). Nintendo probably forced him to include it on the 3DS. Damn. They probably should have waited till the new 3DS came out. :/ Might have made Smash less of a hassle to deal with, and probably help other, more complex and graphics-intensive games have a little more freedom. Matter of fact, I feel like Nintendo could EASILY have arranged such a thing: Develop the new 3DS alongside Smash 4--it would be perfectly logical. They both came out VERY near each other's release dates. Why NOT do this? Would it seem weird? I'm sure TONS of new 3DSs would sell. I'm totally puzzled by this.

Ya. I'm wondering about that too. I mean, Smash 4 was the last MAJOR release on the 3DS before the New 3DS. It should have been obvious that Smash 4 should be on the New 3DS, not on the downgraded thing...

 

[Nauzgo]

Now, the diary of Sakurai (I had to bring up this Breaking Benjamin hint..) shows that they really wanted them to include. But because of not enough time to handle the whole game and make them working, they stopped that hard process it seems. I think that pretty much says that they would have been worked on 3DS with enough time and hopefully they are already working on them. They are even more important than Wolf tbh...

 

[ROBnWatch]

Now, the diary of Sakurai (I had to bring up this Breaking Benjamin hint..) shows that they really wanted them to include. But because of not enough time to handle the whole game and make them working, they stopped that hard process it seems. I think that pretty much says that they would have been worked on 3DS with enough time and hopefully they are already working on them. They are even more important than Wolf tbh...

I'd agree with that. A two time veteran should have priority over a one time veteran.

 

[Nauzgo]

I'd agree with that. A two time veteran should have priority over a one time veteran.

Yeah, and not only because of that, since the Ice Climbers represented a own whole franchise in Smash which completely scrapped. The same happened to Metal Gear and Snake, but as Snake is third party, Wolf should be in over him because Starfox was (like Mother and Pokemon, which are okay now with Mewtwo and Lucas) shorted from Brawl to 4. 3 in Brawl, 2 in 4. But thats another case.

I hope when they finally get in that they get an awesome new stage or a cool remake of the older 2. Icicle Mountain would look sooo awesome in HD. And Summit was also pretty cool, I used it very often in Brawl.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Yeah, and not only because of that, since the Ice Climbers represented a own whole franchise in Smash which completely scrapped. The same happened to Metal Gear and Snake, but as Snake is third party, Wolf should be in over him because Starfox was (like Mother and Pokemon, which are okay now with Mewtwo and Lucas) shorted from Brawl to 4. 3 in Brawl, 2 in 4. But thats another case.

I hope when they finally get in that they get an awesome new stage or a cool remake of the older 2. Icicle Mountain would look sooo awesome in HD. And Summit was also pretty cool, I used it very often in Brawl.

Despite Summit being called one of the worst stages in Brawl, I too used it frequently because of it's GREAT music. And usually, the music is what makes a stage for me. Since Ice Climber only had one game, I think it's more likely we'll see either Icicle Mountain or Summit return, as there is not much to base a new stage off of (unless we somehow get a reboot of the series, which is unlikely).

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

I think bringing back Summit into the Wii U version would be cool and have an 8-bit Ice Climber stage in the 3DS much like Balloon Fight or Pac-Land. Actually, scratch that. As punishment for the initial loss of ICies, the 3DS version gets no Ice Climber stage and the Wii U version gets both the Summit and the retro ICies stage. Take that, 3DS version!

 

[ROBnWatch]

I think bringing back Summit into the Wii U version would be cool and have an 8-bit Ice Climber stage in the 3DS much like Balloon Fight or Pac-Land. Actually, scratch that. As punishment for the initial loss of ICies, the 3DS version gets no Ice Climber stage and the Wii U version gets both the Summit and the retro ICies stage. Take that, 3DS version!

No. 3DS gets an ICies home stage. But it needs to be crappy, much like the 3DS processing power. But honestly, we should just forget about the 3DS and move on to the New 3DS.

 

[WindozeNT]

The other night I had a dream I was datamining 3DS's files and I found a portrait of the Ice Climbers with [CONFIRMED] by them.

 

[ROBnWatch]

The other night I had a dream I was datamining 3DS's files and I found a portrait of the Ice Climbers with [CONFIRMED] by them.

Well, we know we've got a good chance of them coming back due to a fair amount of support from the fans. But we still need more, I think, if we're going to make it happen.

 

[lightdasher]

No. 3DS gets an ICies home stage. But it needs to be crappy, much like the 3DS processing power. But honestly, we should just forget about the 3DS and move on to the New 3DS.

icicle mountain on 3DS Summit on Wii U, or vice versa. Trying to picture 8 players on Icicle Mountain and I love it

 

[ROBnWatch]

icicle mountain on 3DS Summit on Wii U, or vice versa. Trying to picture 8 players on Icicle Mountain and I love it

It looks just as cool with 8-player on Summit...

 

[lightdasher]

Check out where Ice Climbers place on this "most wanted cut veteran" http://i.imgur.com/oOrpdMR.png

 

[ROBnWatch]

Check out where Ice Climbers place on this "most wanted cut veteran" http://i.imgur.com/oOrpdMR.png

No surprise there.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

Very informative post. Thanks for the heads up/information. I actually don't think I've read this one--or if I did, I pretty much assumed it was just like the other blog post where Sakurai explains the IC's cut due to the 3DS's blah blah.
It actually almost seems like Sakurai is saying "We tried very hard to include the Ice Climbers, and the team managed to optimize almost everybody BUT the Ice Climbers," which is a little disheartening, but you still seem a little peppy about the whole situation. I'm interested as to why you are still able to hold onto the hope. Is it because so many people want the Ice Climbers back?

Also, am I the only one that finds it odd that Sakurai revived the ICs, included them in Melee AND Brawl, and then cut them from Smash 4? Although honestly, I think it's because Nintendo announced the game before Sakurai even knew it was happening. At least that's what I heard (it may or may not be totally true). Nintendo probably forced him to include it on the 3DS. Damn. They probably should have waited till the new 3DS came out. :/ Might have made Smash less of a hassle to deal with, and probably help other, more complex and graphics-intensive games have a little more freedom. Matter of fact, I feel like Nintendo could EASILY have arranged such a thing: Develop the new 3DS alongside Smash 4--it would be perfectly logical. They both came out VERY near each other's release dates. Why NOT do this? Would it seem weird? I'm sure TONS of new 3DSs would sell. I'm totally puzzled by this.

I wouldn't exactly say peppy. I mean one of my mains is still to this day missing with only a glimmer of evidence that they can return. I just want to try and remedy everyone's doubts on the possibility. It really annoys me when people say, "A vote for the Ice Climbers is a wasted vote because they can't be put in and it's not like this ballet is to let Nintendo know directly that we want these characters in while giving suggestions on how they can be implemented." Or, "I'm so reluctant to vote for the Ice Climbers in the ballot because I feel my vote won't matter because Sakurai announced their removal and it's not like Sakurai ever went back on his word before." And the classic naive saying, "The Ice Climbers couldn't work on the 3DS but they probably can't work on the Wii U either because of 8 player smash even though there is pretty much zero evidence directly correlating with them." And let's not forget, "If the Ice Climbers didn't get in, how did Rosalina & Luma and Duck Hunt get in? Multiple characters in one = same as Ice Climbers, right?" This one I've seen said verbatim: "Take everything Sakurai says with a grain of salt except for the Ice Climbers issue." There are other sayings people will try and counter argue with to disprove Ice Climbers as possible DLC. It pains me to see people become so faithless toward ICies and become nonbelievers of our cause. But that's why we have the ballet. It's not like Nintendo will compare the ratio of naysayers to supporters like us and use that to decide if ICies get in. But I won't give up so easily. I will stick to what I believe in until my babies return to one of my favorite franchises ever. And I'm not alone. We are united into a powerful Ice Climbers support community with our hopes high and our dreams big on the ultimate climb to the top to get back what we believe in and what we are so passionate about. And it is an honor to be able to speak among fellow ICies supporters where we don't have to feel alone anymore.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

I don't hear asking for the Ice Climbers often, probably because people have already heard the sad story of their cut. Buuut, we really need to vote and spread the want for Ice Climbers. Making our voice heard in the community is surely to make something happen, I felt the same way about Lucas.. and look where that got us.

 

[ROBnWatch]

I wouldn't exactly say peppy. I mean one of my mains is still to this day missing with only a glimmer of evidence that they can return. I just want to try and remedy everyone's doubts on the possibility. It really annoys me when people say, "A vote for the Ice Climbers is a wasted vote because they can't be put in and it's not like this ballet is to let Nintendo know directly that we want these characters in while giving suggestions on how they can be implemented." Or, "I'm so reluctant to vote for the Ice Climbers in the ballot because I feel my vote won't matter because Sakurai announced their removal and it's not like Sakurai ever went back on his word before." And the classic naive saying, "The Ice Climbers couldn't work on the 3DS but they probably can't work on the Wii U either because of 8 player smash even though there is pretty much zero evidence directly correlating with them." And let's not forget, "If the Ice Climbers didn't get in, how did Rosalina & Luma and Duck Hunt get in? Multiple characters in one = same as Ice Climbers, right?" This one I've seen said verbatim: "Take everything Sakurai says with a grain of salt except for the Ice Climbers issue." There are other sayings people will try and counter argue with to disprove Ice Climbers as possible DLC. It pains me to see people become so faithless toward ICies and become nonbelievers of our cause. But that's why we have the ballet. It's not like Nintendo will compare the ratio of naysayers to supporters like us and use that to decide if ICies get in. But I won't give up so easily. I will stick to what I believe in until my babies return to one of my favorite franchises ever. And I'm not alone. We are united into a powerful Ice Climbers support community with our hopes high and our dreams big on the ultimate climb to the top to get back what we believe in and what we are so passionate about. And it is an honor to be able to speak among fellow ICies supporters where we don't have to feel alone anymore.

Sure is. Kinda like what I thought when I joined SmashBoards. I wondered "I'll bet the R.O.B. community is pretty small", but there's a lot of them. And a lot of us. We should DEFINATELY be able to get our point across.

I don't hear asking for the Ice Climbers often, probably because people have already heard the sad story of their cut. Buuut, we really need to vote and spread the want for Ice Climbers. Making our voice heard in the community is surely to make something happen, I felt the same way about Lucas.. and look where that got us.

How true.

 

[Marigi174]

Check out where Ice Climbers place on this "most wanted cut veteran" http://i.imgur.com/oOrpdMR.png

YUS!! KEEP UP THE SUPPORT PEOPLE!!!

edit: also avy heists ahoy :]

 

[Xevious 1]

Yeah people are not talking about the Icies as much, similar to Ridley, they have "no chance" (even though Sakurai has turned on his word often). I guess characters like Geno, Lloyd, and Daisy have more of a chance getting back in according to the fandom.

 

[Marigi174]

Yeah people are not talking about the Icies as much, similar to Ridley, they have "no chance" (even though Sakurai has turned on his word often). I guess characters like Geno, Lloyd, and Daisy have more of a chance getting back in according to the fandom.

Nah. Daisy and Lloyd stand no chance. There simply isn't enough support for the characters. Also, they are both technically present already (Daisy as a Peach skin, Lloyd as Villager's side special), so there is little reason to include them.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

So I found an old video that I just discovered yesterday in memory of the missing characters from vanilla Smash 4. This was before any DLC was announced. We have 2 of them so far but the feels are still strong.

 

[Xevious 1]

Nah. Daisy and Lloyd stand no chance. There simply isn't enough support for the characters. Also, they are both technically present already (Daisy as a Peach skin, Lloyd as Villager's side special), so there is little reason to include them.

I was talking about Lloyd from Tales of Symphonia. I wasn't saying they stood a chance. I was saying that people think those characters are likely (I don't see an unimportant third party character or secondary characters making it in Smash)
But I have heard some people rule out the Ice Climbers because of technical difficulties. Even though Sakurai said that it was impossible to make Mewtwo happen because it wasn't possible to port Melee data to Smash 4, now look what happened. Same for the Ice Climbers, same could go for Ridley.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Check out where Ice Climbers place on this "most wanted cut veteran" http://i.imgur.com/oOrpdMR.png

What's the source of the poll? Also, I'm dying laughing at how Dark Pit is by far the least liked newcomer, taking a whopping 55% with the runner up being the Mii Fighters at a measly 7%. There's something quietly hilarious about how Dark Pit is hated nearly 8 times more than the second most hated characters.

 

[Burruni]

What's the source of the poll? Also, I'm dying laughing at how Dark Pit is by far the least liked newcomer, taking a whopping 55% with the runner up being the Mii Fighters at a measly 7%. There's something quietly hilarious about how Dark Pit is hated nearly 8 times more than the second most hated characters.

The last revealed character of a Smash game who isn't fully unique tends to be the one who gets the most hate.
But namely it was a "last straw" of "Sakurai Bias" for Uprising after he reused a number of assets for the 3DS version more than anything else while other favorites (Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie, Impa, etc.) were not present.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

Check out where Ice Climbers place on this "most wanted cut veteran" http://i.imgur.com/oOrpdMR.png

I remember this poll from way back and I'm not surprised by Mewtwo's and ICies' placements. I just hope those who voted ICies vote for them in the ballot instead of shrugging their shoulders saying, "Whelp, guess that's a lost cause," and automatically rule them out while assuming that they're "impossible on the 3DS." Yet people ruled out Mewtwo back then. History likes to repeat itself.

What's the source of the poll? Also, I'm dying laughing at how Dark Pit is by far the least liked newcomer, taking a whopping 55% with the runner up being the Mii Fighters at a measly 7%. There's something quietly hilarious about how Dark Pit is hated nearly 8 times more than the second most hated characters.

I didn't mind Dark Pit since he is a third Kid Icarus rep that previously had minimal representation in Brawl. Though the Mii Fighters and Wii Fit Trainer are definitely my least favorite. I barely acknowledge the Miis as real playable fighters.