Guide Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings - Match-Ups- Discussing Rosalina, Duck Hunt, and Ness Matchups-

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

What's up kooky denizens of the Bowser Jr. boards.

The time is long overdue for a matchup discussion thread for our favorite troublemakers, and by golly we shall have one now. Special thanks to @ Sonsa and @ Duck SMASH! for bringing it to my attention and whipping me into gear, lel.

Since the Bowser Jr. boards aren't as active as other boards, I won't have set weeks or set days for different characters. The way I'll handle this, is I'll announce which characters are being discussed, and I'll wait until there's been a good amount of discussion before moving on to the next. This way, all of you that visit the Bowser Jr. board will have a chance to chip in and give your thoughts on the particular matchups that are currently being discussed.

General Guidelines for Discussion/Contribution:
​

First and foremost, please be respectful and don't flame other users. We'll likely have users come here who main the character we're currently analyzing, and we don't need a flamewar sparking of "My character is better than yours" and whatnot.

Your posts do not have to adhere to a specific format, but it would be preferred if you kept these things in mind when you are discussion a matchup:

• Strengths
• Weaknesses
• Combo potential
• Off-stage capabilities
• Good/bad custom movesets
• Opinions
• Overall score

It would also be favorable to provide links and/or videos to bolster your discussion.

Overall Score
​

Overall Score is a way to generalize the favor of a matchup, and is based on a score of 100. When giving your thoughts on an overall score, please keep it at multiples of 5 (40:60, 35:65, 20:80, etc.). The number on the left refers to Bowser Jr./Koopalings, and the number on the right refers to the currently scheduled character of discussion.
The higher the number, the more favorable the matchup is for that character.
Use this for reference:

• 100:0 - 95:5; Bowser Jr./Koopalings would (almost) always win.
• 90:10 - 85:15; Bowser Jr./Koopalings have a massive advantage.
• 80:20 - 75:25; Bowser Jr./Koopalings have a strong advantage.
• 70:30 - 65:35; Bowser Jr./Koopalings have a moderate advantage.
• 60:40 - 55:45; Bowser Jr./Koopalings have a slight advantage.
• 50:50; Bowser Jr./Koopalings are evenly matched against their opponent.
• 40:60 - 45:55; Bowser Jr./Koopalings have a slight disadvantage.
• 30:70 - 35:65; Bowser Jr./Koopalings have a moderate disadvantage.
• 20:80 - 25:75; Bowser Jr./Koopalings have a strong disadvantage.
• 10:90 - 15:85; Bowser Jr./Koopalings have a massive disadvantage.
• 0:100 - 5:95; Bowser Jr./Koopalings would (almost) always lose.

Please remember that when discussing matchups, we must assume that everyone is playing at their top potential.

I'll do my best to keep updated with this thread and participate in discussions as well. If I'm not around for a while, then I'm being bogged down with university business.


Matchup Analyses

Shulk - 41:50

Spoiler

Helping out with how to organize the matchup. Creating specific mu threads and linking them here in the OP looks cool xD. At least that's what the Shulk's thread does which I like lol.

Guess I can help out what I played against Vicegrip's Ludwig and one mexican friend who mains Larry. But still this matchup is very rare. ":/, I've only played those two guys who actually can play him well, excluding those for glory ones which don't play well xD.
I consider this match to be in Shulk's favour tho but not unwinnable on bowser jr's side. Bowser jr. can outsmart shulk with his many projectile based games and clown kart approaches. (always cancelling clown kart to jump... cause the one where he like I think tries to go to the other side gives him a terrible ending lag ((sorry I don't know how to explain that attack from jr. xD))

- Having that bowser toy in land is quite effective, limits Shulk's way of approaching, you forcefully make Shulk jump and mostly he will nair or he will just stay shielding. Though, Shulk's zoning comes to play here, we love spacing you guys xD.

- Edgeguarding with the up b explosive junior kart hurts a ton and if the Shulk player can't tech it's mostly a guaranteed gimp since airslash has terrible frames to finally snap on to ledge.

- Overall we usually fair junior offstage but he can recover so well if he knows how to use that clown kart. So usually we prefer dairing you koopas .

Aha hopefully I can play you abyssal . We haven't played yet huh?

Screw insomnia.
Anyways I might as well post my thoughts while I'm here.
Unfortunately I'm not the best and I haven't seen too many high level shulk players.
But from what I've seen (some good ones), here's what I noticed.
- Shulk's range is ridiculous. Fsmash, Usmash, Uair, and Dair all have some of the largest ranges of all the attacks in the game.
- Shulk's monado lets him set the pace of the match. Constantly going on offense against speed/jump shulk is not easy... let alone against smash shulk with over 75% damage... Chances are that Jr. will be forced to play defensively.
- Aerials have great range. Nair and Fair are basically the same move in opposite directions (shulk swinging around himself)
- Buster forces you to play very carefully or your damage will shoot up faster than Jigglypuff after her shield breaks. >.>
- Smash is more punishable, because more of your hits will knock shulk farther away and waste his time coming back to you.
- Shield is a pain if you're trying to kill him. Probably better to wait it out or, if you can get him offstage, go for a gimp.
- Jump Shulk is really good at edgeguarding and either killing or gimping. Do your best to evade him as you return to the stage. Use Kart dash and mixup your recovery whenever you can.
- Vision is a pain as well, though it is predictable and can be dodged if you move out of the way fast enough.
- If Jr. is recovering low jump Shulk's aerials can spike/stage spike him with relative safety... As @ Artryuu mentioned, proper kart dash recovery is key to avoid losing your stock early.

Jr's advantages?
- PROJECTILES. Mechakoopa and cannonball are hugely important for either pressuring shulk or racking up damage.
- Kart dash. Gives Jr. the speed to get close to Shulk and combo him. Also predictable, but most of shulk's attacks aren't fast enough to punish Jr before he can get another attack in or get out of range.
- can combo the crap out of Shield shulk.
- Can punish Smash/buster shulk and deal more damage or even kill faster if the Shulk isn't cautious.
- can edgeguard or gimp all but jump shulk with relative ease. Shulk shouldn't be able to kill you as he's recovering unless your positioning is bad or something...
- Although Jr's aerials are outranged, they are still great for punishes and combos from kart dash (of which there are plenty )


I haven't heard much about customs from either character being particularly useful for the MU... just be twice as careful about power vision, cuz that move can really hurt if you use a smash on it or your cannonball or the giant MK or something...

Unfortunately I don't think I'm qualified enough to offer MU ratios. My opinion is that it's slightly in Jr's favour cuz most of Shulk's attacks are so laggy that even if he spaces them you can get a punish in with kart dash, but more likely the MU for now is even (Jump shulk edgeguarding is a pain, and all it takes is one mistake for buster/smash/speed shulk to seriously screw Jr. over...)

From the times I've played @Jerm , I can definitely agree with Artryuu that the mechakoopa is a very great way to limit what Shulk can do to approach or attack me.

I feel that like in most matchups that Bowjow has, he definitely excels at trying to get Shulk offstage and gimp him. Usually it works to bait out airdodges to get the attacks to land.
If Shulk is in Jump art, however, or if the player is skilled at switching really fast, you'll have a tougher time gimping him, especially if he has his jump.

An effective strategy to use (not abuse though, because then it becomes readable) is to use up-special offensively on stage, because Shulk loves to just go in on you, mostly with short-hop nairs. The kart will propel you to safety and deliver a nice explosion to his face, and possibly set up for Bowjow's own hoo-hah, the mighty Hammer. Even if Shulk hits you still, as long as you completed the animation before the ejection took place, your kart will still explode and send Shulk flying. Granted, you'll take damage from Shulk's attack, but it's pretty humorous to try and up-special, and when you get attacked you immediately go back to a neutral position while an explosion harmless to you sends your opponent away.

However, despite having a really really good recovery, Shulk can easily gimp him. The Monado's range is nothing to sleep on, and can easily snag Bowjow as he's ejecting, usually resulting in him losing his stock, so be mindful of that. Try to mix up your recovery when facing a Shulk.

I would honestly rate this matchup as 40:60. The matchup isn't heavily stacked in either character's favor, but Shulk has a more favorable lean, so Bowjow has to work harder to try and secure victory.

i imagine it's 60-40 for shulk. both characters can't overwhelm the other but shulk's range definitively gives him the edge.

Bowz June vs Shoolk
Yeah, sorry, I don't know much about this matchup either. But I imagine if Jr sees Shulk using a monado power he really doesn't want to deal with (damage/smash) Jr has a good runaway/keepaway game by getting away with his Up-B and Side-B, and keeping away with his B and Down-B.

Shulk also has great range, but Jr. has disjointed hitboxes so...maybe some retreating attacks can be thrown around safely...just really keep your distance, that monado has crazy reach.

Shulk also has lots of endlag on many moves which can be punished with a kart, which followed up by a hop up-air can kill at high percents. However Shulks main approach seems to be short hop nair, which doesnt have that much endlag, so I'd try to play with Mecha-Koopa until he gets impatient and does something else.

Without any projectiles of his own or a reflector, mecha-koopa can easily get you stage control most times. Just beware of counter, especially in his shield form.

Overall, Shulk is very adaptable and could maybe catch Jr in his speed form. But he has to jump cause mecha-koopa, which is his weakness! (could roll too, but easily predictable and punishable against mecha-koop) He could recover with his jump form! But Jr's edgeguarding is pretty decent with mecha-koop, cannon, up-b. In Shulk's shield form he may survive and get counter kills, but not if we keep our distance by taking advantage of his slow speed by simply taking on damage with projectiles. And for his damage and smash powers... yeah, run/keep-away for just 11 seconds.

I think Shulk can adapt, but Jr always has an answer. Not a hard counter answer, but an answer that does the job if the player is good enough. Shulk's range is tough to deal with so landing the finishing blow might be a little tricky, but I think I want to say this matchup is about even? Or slightly in Jr's favor? 55:45?

April 21 2015 edit: Yeah, fought some more, same basic idea. Jr can easily combo Shulk and get in quick to punish his endlag, get stage control with mecha-koopa which Shulk has almost no response to, and outlast any unfavorable manado arts. I just actually think this may be 60:40, 55:45 at least.

I don't have a lot of info on the shulk match up, just general stuff. his recovery (w/o Jump mode) is slow enough that we can bair>stage spike easy, but his range and counter do make tough kart approaches. I seems like our off stage game aerials would be stunted due to hes nair/fair warfare. does spinout trump his aerials?
I feel if we hit shulk off stage it would be from well timed nairs, projectiles, or when he's forced to recover instead of attack.

One of my friend's mains is Bowser Jr and we end up playing practise matches a lot. Whilst I may not have the experience of many people on the boards I'll offer my insight from a Shulk's perspective as I'm sure you'll have a lot of people to fill the Bowser Jr side of things, I'm not too good with terminology and this is my first writeup regarding Smash Bros matchups but I'll try my best

Neutral + Combo Game
The main area here where Shulk excels is his sheer range and ability to combo Bowser Jr upon landing a hit fairly well and early due to Jr's weight, changing to Buster as soon as combo's with vanilla Shulk or Speed arts become impossible from the neutral due to damage. A Shulk will likely take the usual approach of going for the immediate Speed art as it makes the neutral tilt in his favour, able to play mind games with immediate access to speed and range - none of Jr's attacks outrange and it seems initially that the only way Jr will be able to start up on Shulk is by hard reads. However as a Shulk player I feel the best tools Jr has to combat a Shulk is Mecha's and the Kart Dash. Mecha Koopa's can be thrown to disrupt an approach and Shulks have to play very carefully to not get caught up in the blast - although he doesn't have much landing lag on his neutral air when he hits the ground there is a time where he is vulnerable and this can be capitalised on. Bowser Jr's disjoints on his moves also means he can stop Shulks animation (not sure what the term for this is) and hit quicker than Shulk with a neutral air of his own. Kart Dashing also punishes lag and can be used as a sucker of Jr's own, although they should bear in mind Shulk has both a counter and the speed to challenge this, and the tools to punish. In terms of damage output through combo strings Bowser Jr initially has the edge with his Abandon combo's, dashes or a string after throwing a Mecha but Shulk is consistent later on in the stock with Buster to continue his bread and butter setups into combos.

Off-stage capabilities
This is where I feel the matchups tilts in Shulk's favour. His aerial range trades well with Bowser's fast neutral air option and with Jump art his aerial speed lets him challenge all of Bowser's options when they are level or Shulk is slightly above Jr (too high up and Shulk is in range for a Abandon punish). Shulk can utilise his spike with the same efficiency as normal due to the range and Jr can only really air dodge and recover to get away from it, which a patient Shulk will catch up on. Last but not least for Shulk, he can utilise his Juggle forward aerial combo into itself at mid percentage ranges to KO Jr if the stage isn't too wide, which Jr will find difficult to escape from due to the sheer speed Shulk has with Jump activated to chase. On the other side Jr likes getting in close to Shulk surprisingly as a fast neutral air will be too fast for Shulk to react to with his own attacks. Additionally if Jr is ABOVE Shulk in the air, Shulk is completely unable to recover if a well timed Abandon is used against him, which even has the change of KO'ing Shulk if the player doesn't tech in time. Still with these factors I feel Shulk has overall more options to punish Jr with his range and ability to combo into himself

KO Options
In terms of KO options this is where the matchup gets interesting. Abandon to any aerial without the kart seems to be the most reliable way for Jr to KO from my experience, and it avoids Shulk's counter too but is open to punishes as it puts Jr above Shulk. Catching Shulk in this combo should KO in rage around 100%. Dashing into aerials in the neutral zone is a good way to finish off Shulk too. Shulk's options have more range and will KO at around 90% in the neutral with Smash, or over that if not using forward Smash or back air, trading range for speed. I feel both characters options are even here with their respective strengths

Overall I feel Shulk has an advantage in this matchups due to his flexibilty with both his arts and his range in neutral and advantage in the air as well. However, many parts of the game are even for both characters and Bowser Jr has multiple options to rack up quick damage onto a Shulk with prediction. Therefore I will place this matchup as 65:35 in Shulk's favour (or -1 if you're using that system, I don't think it's a -2 for Jr in this case).

I personally think that Shulk has a better match up mostly due to his speed and buster monado. Due to Jr.'s lack of range (not counting projectiles) Shulk can rack up damage quite easily. Neutral air is probably something Jr. mains would be afraid of. Yet, I think it is possible for a Jr. main to take advantage of by utilizing the side and down special, other than that, I would say the matchup is about 30:70

I find the Shulk matchup EXTREMELY EASY. If the shulk is in any monado other than speed, he's combo food and has no approach vs bjr. His usmash is too slow to punish kart to jump on shield and his oos hitboxes are too slow to punish karts.
If the shulk activates speed, all the bjr needs to do is camp. Mixing in good rolling and kart oos will keep bjr safe until speed deactivates and bjr can rack up % again. Smash monado is hilarious, kart-upb-hammer will kill shulk at around 70% without rage.

On Shulk, I think the biggest concern is that he is very hard to punish during Speed (and Jump I guess). I'd also recommend not setting up Mechakoopas while he uses these arts because he can punish really easily. During other arts, he isn't that hard to bait and punish because of the slow moves that he has to commit to. Smart shielding is important here.

His range is better than Jr.'s which sucks but isn't a deal-breaker. You need to be careful of Vision because he can use it on a Mechakoopa walking toward him and on Koopa Cart. Using grabs strategically will keep him from abusing Vision.

A nice factor in Jr.'s favor is that Shulk is (relative to much of the cast...) easy to gimp. Most Shulk will try to recover from below because Air Slash doesn't give much horizontal distance. Waiting for him to go underneath the ledge and nailing him with a nair or Abandon Ship is super rewarding. Even if we don't gimp him we can kill him at an early percent by punishing him on a read.

I disagree with some of the above ratios - the matchup is much closer to even.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

Post reserved

 

[Duck SMASH!]

We should also link to some of the other threads people have made instead of retreading the same ground.
Several threads covering Fox, Yoshi, Villager, Sheik, Palutena, and Falcon have been made. We should keep the discussion for those characters in those threads for continuity of discussion and to save the discussions in tthis thread for some of the other MUs
But thank you for making this thread.

BTW if you want me to add anything for a third post, I can edit this one later as well.
Will comment on Shulk matchup a bit later.. for now I need to sleep lol

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

I was thinking that when we get to those character discussions, I can add what is in those threads, to the overall discussion.

My goal was to have a spoiler in the second post for each character, and have every discussion post contained within because I value all of your guys' opinions and contributions, and it'd be good to have them all in one place.

 

[Artryuu]

Helping out with how to organize the matchup. Creating specific mu threads and linking them here in the OP looks cool xD. At least that's what the Shulk's thread does which I like lol.

Guess I can help out what I played against Vicegrip's Ludwig and one mexican friend who mains Larry. But still this matchup is very rare. ":/, I've only played those two guys who actually can play him well, excluding those for glory ones which don't play well xD.
I consider this match to be in Shulk's favour tho but not unwinnable on bowser jr's side. Bowser jr. can outsmart shulk with his many projectile based games and clown kart approaches. (always cancelling clown kart to jump... cause the one where he like I think tries to go to the other side gives him a terrible ending lag ((sorry I don't know how to explain that attack from jr. xD))

- Having that bowser toy in land is quite effective, limits Shulk's way of approaching, you forcefully make Shulk jump and mostly he will nair or he will just stay shielding. Though, Shulk's zoning comes to play here, we love spacing you guys xD.

- Edgeguarding with the up b explosive junior kart hurts a ton and if the Shulk player can't tech it's mostly a guaranteed gimp since airslash has terrible frames to finally snap on to ledge.

- Overall we usually fair junior offstage but he can recover so well if he knows how to use that clown kart. So usually we prefer dairing you koopas .

Aha hopefully I can play you abyssal . We haven't played yet huh?

 

[Berserker.]

I'm sorry guys. I don't know a thing about this match up ;-;

Don't feel comfortable posting my thoughts so yeah. My bad

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Screw insomnia.
Anyways I might as well post my thoughts while I'm here.
Unfortunately I'm not the best and I haven't seen too many high level shulk players.
But from what I've seen (some good ones), here's what I noticed.
- Shulk's range is ridiculous. Fsmash, Usmash, Uair, and Dair all have some of the largest ranges of all the attacks in the game.
- Shulk's monado lets him set the pace of the match. Constantly going on offense against speed/jump shulk is not easy... let alone against smash shulk with over 75% damage... Chances are that Jr. will be forced to play defensively.
- Aerials have great range. Nair and Fair are basically the same move in opposite directions (shulk swinging around himself)
- Buster forces you to play very carefully or your damage will shoot up faster than Jigglypuff after her shield breaks. >.>
- Smash is more punishable, because more of your hits will knock shulk farther away and waste his time coming back to you.
- Shield is a pain if you're trying to kill him. Probably better to wait it out or, if you can get him offstage, go for a gimp.
- Jump Shulk is really good at edgeguarding and either killing or gimping. Do your best to evade him as you return to the stage. Use Kart dash and mixup your recovery whenever you can.
- Vision is a pain as well, though it is predictable and can be dodged if you move out of the way fast enough.
- If Jr. is recovering low jump Shulk's aerials can spike/stage spike him with relative safety... As @ Artryuu mentioned, proper kart dash recovery is key to avoid losing your stock early.

Jr's advantages?
- PROJECTILES. Mechakoopa and cannonball are hugely important for either pressuring shulk or racking up damage.
- Kart dash. Gives Jr. the speed to get close to Shulk and combo him. Also predictable, but most of shulk's attacks aren't fast enough to punish Jr before he can get another attack in or get out of range.
- can combo the crap out of Shield shulk.
- Can punish Smash/buster shulk and deal more damage or even kill faster if the Shulk isn't cautious.
- can edgeguard or gimp all but jump shulk with relative ease. Shulk shouldn't be able to kill you as he's recovering unless your positioning is bad or something...
- Although Jr's aerials are outranged, they are still great for punishes and combos from kart dash (of which there are plenty )


I haven't heard much about customs from either character being particularly useful for the MU... just be twice as careful about power vision, cuz that move can really hurt if you use a smash on it or your cannonball or the giant MK or something...

Unfortunately I don't think I'm qualified enough to offer MU ratios. My opinion is that it's slightly in Jr's favour cuz most of Shulk's attacks are so laggy that even if he spaces them you can get a punish in with kart dash, but more likely the MU for now is even (Jump shulk edgeguarding is a pain, and all it takes is one mistake for buster/smash/speed shulk to seriously screw Jr. over...)

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

From the times I've played @Jerm , I can definitely agree with Artryuu that the mechakoopa is a very great way to limit what Shulk can do to approach or attack me.

I feel that like in most matchups that Bowjow has, he definitely excels at trying to get Shulk offstage and gimp him. Usually it works to bait out airdodges to get the attacks to land.
If Shulk is in Jump art, however, or if the player is skilled at switching really fast, you'll have a tougher time gimping him, especially if he has his jump.

An effective strategy to use (not abuse though, because then it becomes readable) is to use up-special offensively on stage, because Shulk loves to just go in on you, mostly with short-hop nairs. The kart will propel you to safety and deliver a nice explosion to his face, and possibly set up for Bowjow's own hoo-hah, the mighty Hammer. Even if Shulk hits you still, as long as you completed the animation before the ejection took place, your kart will still explode and send Shulk flying. Granted, you'll take damage from Shulk's attack, but it's pretty humorous to try and up-special, and when you get attacked you immediately go back to a neutral position while an explosion harmless to you sends your opponent away.

However, despite having a really really good recovery, Shulk can easily gimp him. The Monado's range is nothing to sleep on, and can easily snag Bowjow as he's ejecting, usually resulting in him losing his stock, so be mindful of that. Try to mix up your recovery when facing a Shulk.

I would honestly rate this matchup as 40:60. The matchup isn't heavily stacked in either character's favor, but Shulk has a more favorable lean, so Bowjow has to work harder to try and secure victory.

 

[guedes the brawler]

i imagine it's 60-40 for shulk. both characters can't overwhelm the other but shulk's range definitively gives him the edge.

 

[Sonsa]

Bowz June vs Shoolk
Yeah, sorry, I don't know much about this matchup either. But I imagine if Jr sees Shulk using a monado power he really doesn't want to deal with (damage/smash) Jr has a good runaway/keepaway game by getting away with his Up-B and Side-B, and keeping away with his B and Down-B.

Shulk also has great range, but Jr. has disjointed hitboxes so...maybe some retreating attacks can be thrown around safely...just really keep your distance, that monado has crazy reach.

Shulk also has lots of endlag on many moves which can be punished with a kart, which followed up by a hop up-air can kill at high percents. However Shulks main approach seems to be short hop nair, which doesnt have that much endlag, so I'd try to play with Mecha-Koopa until he gets impatient and does something else.

Without any projectiles of his own or a reflector, mecha-koopa can easily get you stage control most times. Just beware of counter, especially in his shield form.

Overall, Shulk is very adaptable and could maybe catch Jr in his speed form. But he has to jump cause mecha-koopa, which is his weakness! (could roll too, but easily predictable and punishable against mecha-koop) He could recover with his jump form! But Jr's edgeguarding is pretty decent with mecha-koop, cannon, up-b. In Shulk's shield form he may survive and get counter kills, but not if we keep our distance by taking advantage of his slow speed by simply taking on damage with projectiles. And for his damage and smash powers... yeah, run/keep-away for just 11 seconds.

I think Shulk can adapt, but Jr always has an answer. Not a hard counter answer, but an answer that does the job if the player is good enough. Shulk's range is tough to deal with so landing the finishing blow might be a little tricky, but I think I want to say this matchup is about even? Or slightly in Jr's favor? 55:45?

April 21 2015 edit: Yeah, fought some more, same basic idea. Jr can easily combo Shulk and get in quick to punish his endlag, get stage control with mecha-koopa which Shulk has almost no response to, and outlast any unfavorable manado arts. I just actually think this may be 60:40, 55:45 at least.

 

[Kantrip]

Is this thread going to be used to talk about the matchups themselves, or will it serve as a more central hub that links to separate threads where we discuss individual matchups? I think the threads that @ Duck SMASH! has been posting have been working pretty well so far, could we maybe just link to those in the OP? Alternatively we can merge all matchup threads with this one and keep all matchup-related content in this thread.

 

[Locke 06]

Hello Koopalings! The Mega Man boards are attempting to understand the Bowser Jr. (& friends) matchup. I doubt many of them have much experience against Jr. and his siblings, so your input would be greatly appreciated!

Drive that clown car over here!

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Is this thread going to be used to talk about the matchups themselves, or will it serve as a more central hub that links to separate threads where we discuss individual matchups? I think the threads that @ Duck SMASH! has been posting have been working pretty well so far, could we maybe just link to those in the OP? Alternatively we can merge all matchup threads with this one and keep all matchup-related content in this thread.

as @ Abyssal Lagiacrus mentioned, we will be going over every match up in this thread.
The info from the specific threads I've posted can be placed here as well but the goal is to have one comprehensive matchup thread to cover everybody.
I'm just posting the other threads for A: more detail on the MU, and B: so other people have something to work with for now to address their matches with top tiers (cuz we're gonna see a lot of them)

 

[CopShowGuy]

Hey, you Koopa Kids and Kats! We at the Mega Man board are discussing the matchup...

Oh...Locke 06 beat me here. Well I just wanted to use the "Kids and Kats" line...
Like he said, come on down to:
http://smashboards.com/threads/zero...-miniboss-galore.371407/page-13#post-18787961

 

[divade]

I don't have a lot of info on the shulk match up, just general stuff. his recovery (w/o Jump mode) is slow enough that we can bair>stage spike easy, but his range and counter do make tough kart approaches. I seems like our off stage game aerials would be stunted due to hes nair/fair warfare. does spinout trump his aerials?
I feel if we hit shulk off stage it would be from well timed nairs, projectiles, or when he's forced to recover instead of attack.

 

[CELTiiC]

Hey guys, DK boards are currently discussing the DK vs Bowser Jr matchup and would love to get input from you guys on that. Feel free to check out our thread and leave your input!

http://smashboards.com/threads/monkey-business-donkey-kong-matchup-thread.396228/#post-18824869

 

[Xenoblade Hero]

One of my friend's mains is Bowser Jr and we end up playing practise matches a lot. Whilst I may not have the experience of many people on the boards I'll offer my insight from a Shulk's perspective as I'm sure you'll have a lot of people to fill the Bowser Jr side of things, I'm not too good with terminology and this is my first writeup regarding Smash Bros matchups but I'll try my best

Neutral + Combo Game
The main area here where Shulk excels is his sheer range and ability to combo Bowser Jr upon landing a hit fairly well and early due to Jr's weight, changing to Buster as soon as combo's with vanilla Shulk or Speed arts become impossible from the neutral due to damage. A Shulk will likely take the usual approach of going for the immediate Speed art as it makes the neutral tilt in his favour, able to play mind games with immediate access to speed and range - none of Jr's attacks outrange and it seems initially that the only way Jr will be able to start up on Shulk is by hard reads. However as a Shulk player I feel the best tools Jr has to combat a Shulk is Mecha's and the Kart Dash. Mecha Koopa's can be thrown to disrupt an approach and Shulks have to play very carefully to not get caught up in the blast - although he doesn't have much landing lag on his neutral air when he hits the ground there is a time where he is vulnerable and this can be capitalised on. Bowser Jr's disjoints on his moves also means he can stop Shulks animation (not sure what the term for this is) and hit quicker than Shulk with a neutral air of his own. Kart Dashing also punishes lag and can be used as a sucker of Jr's own, although they should bear in mind Shulk has both a counter and the speed to challenge this, and the tools to punish. In terms of damage output through combo strings Bowser Jr initially has the edge with his Abandon combo's, dashes or a string after throwing a Mecha but Shulk is consistent later on in the stock with Buster to continue his bread and butter setups into combos.

Off-stage capabilities
This is where I feel the matchups tilts in Shulk's favour. His aerial range trades well with Bowser's fast neutral air option and with Jump art his aerial speed lets him challenge all of Bowser's options when they are level or Shulk is slightly above Jr (too high up and Shulk is in range for a Abandon punish). Shulk can utilise his spike with the same efficiency as normal due to the range and Jr can only really air dodge and recover to get away from it, which a patient Shulk will catch up on. Last but not least for Shulk, he can utilise his Juggle forward aerial combo into itself at mid percentage ranges to KO Jr if the stage isn't too wide, which Jr will find difficult to escape from due to the sheer speed Shulk has with Jump activated to chase. On the other side Jr likes getting in close to Shulk surprisingly as a fast neutral air will be too fast for Shulk to react to with his own attacks. Additionally if Jr is ABOVE Shulk in the air, Shulk is completely unable to recover if a well timed Abandon is used against him, which even has the change of KO'ing Shulk if the player doesn't tech in time. Still with these factors I feel Shulk has overall more options to punish Jr with his range and ability to combo into himself

KO Options
In terms of KO options this is where the matchup gets interesting. Abandon to any aerial without the kart seems to be the most reliable way for Jr to KO from my experience, and it avoids Shulk's counter too but is open to punishes as it puts Jr above Shulk. Catching Shulk in this combo should KO in rage around 100%. Dashing into aerials in the neutral zone is a good way to finish off Shulk too. Shulk's options have more range and will KO at around 90% in the neutral with Smash, or over that if not using forward Smash or back air, trading range for speed. I feel both characters options are even here with their respective strengths

Overall I feel Shulk has an advantage in this matchups due to his flexibilty with both his arts and his range in neutral and advantage in the air as well. However, many parts of the game are even for both characters and Bowser Jr has multiple options to rack up quick damage onto a Shulk with prediction. Therefore I will place this matchup as 65:35 in Shulk's favour (or -1 if you're using that system, I don't think it's a -2 for Jr in this case).

 

[Xinc]

Hi everyone!

The Ganon boards are discussing Bowser Jr and the matchup against Ganondorf HERE Please feel free to contribute.

Thank you very much!

(Also topic says Wario still because I haven't finished the writeup.)

 

[Falco_Phantasm]

I personally think that Shulk has a better match up mostly due to his speed and buster monado. Due to Jr.'s lack of range (not counting projectiles) Shulk can rack up damage quite easily. Neutral air is probably something Jr. mains would be afraid of. Yet, I think it is possible for a Jr. main to take advantage of by utilizing the side and down special, other than that, I would say the matchup is about 30:70

 

[divade]

Found a Shulk online today, I'll upload the matches to the Videos thread soon. They aren't pro matches but i feel it's better than nothing considering the Bow Jr. activity.

 

[Blanc]

I find the Shulk matchup EXTREMELY EASY. If the shulk is in any monado other than speed, he's combo food and has no approach vs bjr. His usmash is too slow to punish kart to jump on shield and his oos hitboxes are too slow to punish karts.
If the shulk activates speed, all the bjr needs to do is camp. Mixing in good rolling and kart oos will keep bjr safe until speed deactivates and bjr can rack up % again. Smash monado is hilarious, kart-upb-hammer will kill shulk at around 70% without rage.

 

[divade]

Oh the video is up in the videos thread, I've seen some good Shulks, and I feel it shouldn't be "easy" if you're fighting one who knows his nairs and fairs.

 

[Vult Redux]

On Shulk, I think the biggest concern is that he is very hard to punish during Speed (and Jump I guess). I'd also recommend not setting up Mechakoopas while he uses these arts because he can punish really easily. During other arts, he isn't that hard to bait and punish because of the slow moves that he has to commit to. Smart shielding is important here.

His range is better than Jr.'s which sucks but isn't a deal-breaker. You need to be careful of Vision because he can use it on a Mechakoopa walking toward him and on Koopa Cart. Using grabs strategically will keep him from abusing Vision.

A nice factor in Jr.'s favor is that Shulk is (relative to much of the cast...) easy to gimp. Most Shulk will try to recover from below because Air Slash doesn't give much horizontal distance. Waiting for him to go underneath the ledge and nailing him with a nair or Abandon Ship is super rewarding. Even if we don't gimp him we can kill him at an early percent by punishing him on a read.

I disagree with some of the above ratios - the matchup is much closer to even.

 

[Sonsa]

Hmm...um, sorry, but how long is the Shulk discussion period ganna be? I edited my original thoughts from a month ago on the MU, but my thoughts haven't changed much. I just wrote like a big Rosalina MU analysis in the Q+A thread, but dont wanna confuse or upset anyone by ignoring the schedule and moving it here?

 

[Kantrip]

I don't know if this is being updated. I think it would be fine to just ask for and give matchup advice for any matchup in this thread since it doesn't seem like we're doing weekly character discussions.

 

[Sonsa]

Eh, well alright! I'd just sorta like to keep it moving I guess... Anyway:
Bowz June vs Rosalina
Vs Rosalina you gatta really amp up the pressure, try not to give her time to breathe. Mecha-koopas constantly, yeah she can throw them away easily, but that keeps her busy. Clown Kart in! Make sure to super short hop before doing so to be even faster (I think this is in the AT thread?) Now she's ganna be like "wait wait wait!" cause she wants to deal with this mechakoopa first.

Now, of course combo when you can, Bowz Jr has some great combos. But! When she pops out from good DI, being too light, or whatever else: Go for Luma. It'll likely be in the air. It can't do anything while it's falling, Rosalina will only get control again once it hits the ground. Jr can quickly and rather easily juggle it off stage with up-air and forward-air.

Now Rosalina is on her own. A good one will run away until Luma is back. If not, there's no Luma or star bits to fear, you're tools are much safer here, short hop nairs will be good, short hop fairs are disjointed enough to be safe. If they are smart and just tries to wait, Mechakoopas and Clown Kart are still great pressure and she'll havta run really well,dealing with your pretty strong stage control. They may want to go for a back-throw, so mind your disjointed hitboxes and don't get grabbed.

You can't gimp her (usually) but her recovery has no hitbox, so you can shove her off stage enough to prepare for a 50-50 situation. They'll either aim for the ledge or predict an edgeguard and try to go right over you onto the stage. Here, you just need to follow them with your eyes closely and react quick.

Other things - your up-b, dropping the clown car, can be pretty predictable and easy to shield, but Luma doesn't have a shield, so this can be a great tool to seperate them and kill Luma.
Landing can be tricky, Rosa's up air is pretty great, but Jr. is heavy enough to live longer and can usually air dodge and fast fall to a safe landing while Rosa kinda floats, she can't land as quick as Jr I believe.
Jr's Neutral B is pretty useless in this MU however, but if you see a unique opportunity - go for it.

Maybe I should put this in the matchup thread instead, but yeah, I think this matchup is actually 55:45 for Jr. Or maybe just 50:50 even...
I've had my own trouble with Rosa, but after going all out with pressure and speeding up clown car, Rosa has a kinda tough time keeping up.

Anyone agree, disagree?

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

So does that mean that I can finally talk about the Duck Hunt MU? If so, I'll gladly tell. :3

As someone who mains both Jr AND Duck Hunt, I actually consider the Jr VS DH matchup to be in Jr’s favor without customs, because Cannonballs (uncharged is ok) AND Mechakoopas can challenge and even beat Duck Hunt’s Gunmen and Cans, and even Clays (except if he shoots it up, which is actually pretty likely, in which case, Mechakoopa’s getting blown up [IF all 3 shots from the Clay shoot-up connects], but Cannonball’s hitbox remains and can still hit DH). With such clashing in favor of Jr, I don't believe that DH is going to be walling out Jr with just his projectiles alone like what he can do to his dad. XD If he wants to do that, DH must use his aerials. FAir, BAir, UAir, and Side B in particular are what he'll try to use against Jr's disjointed aerials. Upclose, on the ground, Jr’s Neutral A and Tilts beat a bunch of DH’s moves due to both distance and speed, especially DTilt, for it (and his Neutral A!) has a 4 frame startup, which beats DH’s 6 frame DTilt. It competes with DH's 4 frame Neutral A, but range-wise, Jr > DH. Shorthop FAir (autocancelled into) --> Neutral A or DTilt is a solid approach string that does decent damage.

Jr's Side B w/out JCs, Mechas & Cannonballs, however, loses to shot-up Clay, a B-pressed Can, and Gunmen's shots (not the Gunmen themselves). The Spinout during Side B also lose to those. If/When they're coming and you're not in the middle of a Side B, either block/perfect-shield (and guard cancel into a jump, which you can Side B off of, which starts up faster this way), jump over, or Side B Jump Cancel over it if DH does NOT go in on you. If he does, you could also try to mash out NAir, FAir, Neutral A string, or DTilt. You could roll, but I'd advise against it, for not only is Jr's roll pretty bad (much like his grab, but at least it's not Pac-Man bad), but if DH reads the roll, you'll be getting blown up for it with Gunmen, Cans, Clays, and DH himself (ex. FSmash or DSmash) if he's brave enough to go in on you. Side B (JCs) CAN be used to approach DH, but it's advisable to have either your Mechakoopa or Cannonball or both out there before doing so. Once either Mechakoopas (more likely) and/or Cannonball (tapped/uncharged) are out, Jr can Side B Jump Cancel or Shorthop NAir or FAir his way in as Mechas walk past and Cannonballs pierce Can, Gunmen, and Clays (if not-shot-up).

Speaking of DH approaching you, if Jr can scare off DH's projectiles enough with his own (including the use of Side B JCs), then DH will have to approach you, especially if he's not leading in percents. DH can actually handle doing that with aerials, and quite frankly, he HAS to against Jr, focusing on headshots (where you take more damage and knockback), if he's going to win. However, as the Jr player, like in most matches, you want the high ground when you jump in on your opponent to take advantage of disjointed aerials and the Car's boosted defense (you take less damage and knockback there), and with 2 decent jumps plus a Side B JC, you can achieve that against the majority of the cast, which includes DH. Thus, he can also timer scam out DH pretty well if it comes down to that (in FG FFA and Teams at least).

In terms of edgeguarding, Jr definitely beats DH in this category if DH's the one trying to get back to the stage, since he doesn't have Side B Jump Cancels like we do, and Can & Gunmen can only do so much in helping him get back to the stage. We can get back to the stage against him better than a couple others can, since our Side B JCs let us mix up & dodge our way back.

I actually experienced this 1v1 MU as Jr in a 3DS FG FFA session once, and won quite convincingly. The opposing DH thought he could camp me out, but having not only mained the 2 chars in question, but also having tested out their projectile clashes and seeing that Jr wins the majority of the trades, the DH player got blown up for it as I got in with Side B Jump Cancels ahoy. This match was actually uploaded in the 3DS version, but that happened pre-current patch (as of when this post was made), so it's gone now.

With Customs On, Jr may want to run either 1321 or 1221 against DH, who will likely be running 3122 or 3121. Zigzag Can gives him a strong anti-air option that can rack up serious damage (20+%), especially on a fatty like us that's wide enough for it to connect easier. Duck Jump Snag is basically a get-out-of--jail-free card he can use against your juggles & approaches, and it can also help protect him from your strong edgeguarding abilities (except for our super-armoured Meteor Ejection, unless you're slow in starting it up). Quick Draw Aces will at least let him have a Gunman he'll actually get shots to come out with, since even Mega Gunmen gets disrespected by our Cannonballs and Mechakoopas pretty easily. It's a little more even for DH, but if you can get past his customs, it should still be in our favor.

In teams, depending on who the dog's allied with, picking on the dog will be a good idea, especially if he's allied with someone like Yoshi or Pikachu or Sheik. Hopefully you're allied with someone like Sonic, Yoshi, or Rosalina, and not someone like your dad, Charizard, or Ganondorf. Villager as a partner is a fantastic reason to run Default Cannonball, since his Pocket powers up your Charged Cannonballs to ludicrous levels, KO-ing folks very early.

In Custom Teams, 2323 or 3323 or 2223 or 3223 and the like may be preferred. DH will probably rep 3122 or 3123, depending on who your ally is. Expect Down 3 if your ally's someone like Robin, Samus, or Mega Man.

As for stages, send him to Lylat Cruise, Castle Siege, and his own stage as soon & frequently as possible (especially the 1st two stages I mentioned). Delfino & Halberd are double-edged swords, depending on whether or not Zigzag Can's on deck. If there's a chance that a walled Omega stage like Wii Fit Studio is allowed, try your best not to let him take you there, since he's got a wall-jump to help himself recover, and no platforms make traversing his arsenal harder.

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

I'm sorry for not getting all these posts organized and getting a new discussion started, the last weeks of university have been ridiculously stressful. I will get right on all of this once I go home for the summer in a couple weeks.

​

 

[divade]

Eh, well alright! I'd just sorta like to keep it moving I guess... Anyway:
Bowz June vs Rosalina
Vs Rosalina you gatta really amp up the pressure, try not to give her time to breathe. Mecha-koopas constantly, yeah she can throw them away easily, but that keeps her busy.
Very much agree, during her GP, she can't move so it can open up approaches, or give you time for Luma (Luma can't act if rosi has an item). Clown Kart in! Make sure to super short hop before doing so to be even faster (I think this is in the AT thread?) Now she's ganna be like "wait wait wait!" cause she wants to deal with this mechakoopa first.
Short hopped side b can get you in between rosi and Luma, where dair is save because it will hurt Luma giving you no landing lag, or a nair will separate them.
Now, of course combo when you can, Bowz Jr has some great combos. But! When she pops out from good DI, being too light, or whatever else: Go for Luma. It'll likely be in the air. It can't do anything while it's falling, Rosalina will only get control again once it hits the ground. Jr can quickly and rather easily juggle it off stage with up-air and forward-air.

Now Rosalina is on her own. A good one will run away until Luma is back. If not, there's no Luma or star bits to fear, you're tools are much safer here, short hop nairs will be good, short hop fairs are disjointed enough to be safe. If they are smart and just tries to wait, Mechakoopas and Clown Kart are still great pressure and she'll havta run really well,dealing with your pretty strong stage control. They may want to go for a back-throw, so mind your disjointed hitboxes and don't get grabbed.

You can't gimp her (usually) but her recovery has no hitbox, so you can shove her off stage enough to prepare for a 50-50 situation. They'll either aim for the ledge or predict an edgeguard and try to go right over you onto the stage. Here, you just need to follow them with your eyes closely and react quick.
With bowjr's jumps, it may be best to push her all the way to the kill box. If they survive they won't have any options to attack you, so ejection is safe.
your up-b, dropping the clown car, can be pretty predictable and easy to shield, but Luma doesn't have a shield, so this can be a great tool to seperate them and kill Luma.
Landing can be tricky, Rosa's up air is pretty great, but Jr. is heavy enough to live longer and can usually air dodge and fast fall to a safe landing while Rosa kinda floats, she can't land as quick as Jr I believe.
Jr's Neutral B is pretty useless in this MU however, but if you see a unique opportunity - go for it.
I've only used it to punish a GP on a mecha koopa, with good timing.
Maybe I should put this in the matchup thread instead, but yeah, I think this matchup is actually 55:45 for Jr. Or maybe just 50:50 even...
I've had my own trouble with Rosa, but after going all out with pressure and speeding up clown car, Rosa has a kinda tough time keeping up.

Anyone agree, disagree?

I bolded my comments.
It's really weird to call it even, because I had a tough time in tourney, but recalling the match it did seem like 50:50.

 

[Sonsa]

Yeah, I would settle on even, Rosa is a threat in the meta for sure, but against a very mobile, combo-heavy...and just heavy character like Jr... Rosa has a lot to deal with and can have trouble keeping up. I don't think I'm underestimating her, I have some experience with this matchup, but Jr is so good with mecha koopa + clown car approaches against more defensive characters and in my experience Rosa is great with dealing against rushdown and zoning, but both is a little too much for her. That's why I thought we'd have a slight advantage, but honestly good Rosa players can try to run from those situations and figure something else out. Can't run forever though!

I'm sorry for not getting all these posts organized and getting a new discussion started, the last weeks of university have been ridiculously stressful. I will get right on all of this once I go home for the summer in a couple weeks.

​

No problem! College is crazy, I really should focus more... I actually like a more go-with-the-flow style similar to the Villager MU thread haha

So does that mean that I can finally talk about the Duck Hunt MU? If so, I'll gladly tell. :3

Thanks for keeping the discussion going! And nice analysis! Yeah, it can be tough to get through Duck Hunt's walls, but Jr's got what it takes. I love the matchup numbers as people can glance at em and think of agreements/disagreements quicker and I'm just curious as to what you'd guess? About even? Maybe a little in Jr's favor? Jr wins in terms of edgeguarding and even combos better than Duck Hunt.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

Ratio guesses for the Jr VS DH MU coming up:

FG 1v1 rules (Omega stages only, no Custom Specials):
55:45 Jr's favor.
50:50 if it's a Walled Omega stage (ex. Wii Fit Studio, Nintendogs)

Actual 1v1 rules (All the legal stages, and Custom Specials on, with both players picking their best sets specifically for this MU):
60:40 Jr's favor if we get to go on Jr's best stages
55:45 on Neutral stages
50:50 on DH's best stages

FG 2v2 rules (Omega stages only, no Custom specials, Friendly Fire off): 55:45 to even 65:35 Jr's favor, depending on who Jr's allied with.
55:45 if Jr's with DH's best MUs (ex. , , )
60:40 if Jr's with DH's neutral MUs (ex. The majority of the cast, I think)
65:35 if Jr's with DH's worst MUs (ex. , , )
50:50 to 60:40 if it's a Walled Omega stage. (50:50 for DH's best MUs, while 60:40 is for DH's worst MUs)

Actual Teams rules (All the legal stages, Custom Specials on, Friendly Fire on, with all players picking their best sets specifically for this MU): 60:40 to even 70:30, depending on who Jr's allied with and where they go.
60:40 if Jr's with DH's best MUs.
65:35 if Jr's with DH's neutral MUs.
70:30 if Jr's with DH's worst MUs.
55:45 to 65:35 if it's a Walled Omega stage.
65:35 to even 75:25 if it's on Jr's best stages. (65:35 for DH's best MUs, while 75:25 is for DH's worst MUs)

I personally believe that walls help out DH that much that he gets to take 5 points towards his side with them, because DH has a wall-jump to help him recover from deep edgeguarding (Can AND himself, for example), baiting folks into going too deep for the edgeguards against him, and simply getting back to the stage, especially if he were to run Up 2, which is very likely. Whenever I bring out the dog in FG Anywhere, I hope that RNG is kind enough to give me a walled Omega stage, and when I do, I abuse his wall-jump whenever I'm in position to do so.

Oh, and here's some more tech: Shots from certain Default Gunmen CAN blow up Mechakoopa in 1 go, particularly Sombrero's & maybe Brown Coat's. This may not include Quick Draw Aces, so DHes MAY stick with Default Gunmen for this perk if Customs are on, but I doubt it, since he'll probably want QDA's shots to challenge your approaches (including Side B Jump Cancels), unless Jr's with certain teammates, in which case he may choose Mega Gunmen instead to deal with your teammate.

 

[GwJ]

R.O.B.s are discussing this matchup, please contribute if you can: http://smashboards.com/threads/r-o-b-matchup-analysis-18-bowser-jr.401810/

 

[FullMoon]

Hey kids, the Greninja boards is going to discuss this MU again: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...ddy-shulk-jigglypuff-5-11-5-18.369356/page-20

We're looking for an analysis of how Greninja should deal with the Koopa kids, so any input from you guys would be appreciated.

 

[krazyzyko]

@ GwJ @ FullMoon - NEVER!!!!

Anyways, l like using impatient koopa (1112) to ruin shulk's stupid approaches.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Hello children of the King of Koopas. We're discussing the Bowser Jr. +Koopalings matchup over at the Fox boards:
vs

Please board your airship and meet us at the Lylat System (click here to discuss the mu)

 

[Ffamran]

Hmm... And they said Fox's backpack held a lot of stuff in Star Fox: Adventures... Hammerspace.

Hey, kiddos, the Falco boards started their ongoing Bowser Jr. discussion and would love to learn from the crazy, clever kid himself. Drop by whenever: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4...-43-bowser-jr-landmaster-vs-clown-car.405261/.

And if you just want to play or learn about the MU with other Falco players, head over here: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

Just a few hours ago, as of the making of this post, I've gotten blown up by Tato / tatinho03 's DH in the Wii U FG 1v1 room as Jr in such a way that my above posts from a month ago... could use some new tech additions, to say the least, regarding the non-Customs portion of the MU, that is. With Customs On, I now fully encourage using Side 3 to pierce through Cans, Gunmen, and ESPECIALLY default Clays, so you can stay in the dog's face as you armor through his arsenal to match his distant damage output with your own Side B --> Jump Cancel --> Aerial juggles. The deck of choice I now believe is to be 1321, so that you can maximize your ability to disrespect his arsenal and stay close to the dog on your terms.

Speaking of that, here's to some new tech on Jr's side of that MU: Disrespect the Cans with aerials and Mechas and Cannons. Otherwise you'll need to make judicious use of Side B JCs to get around it. If you've burned your Side B JC and it's still in your way, you may end up as helpless as your dad if without customs, IF you respect his Can too much like what his dad has to do. Stick out FAir & NAir when Can is approaching you. UAir can work as well, but timing is strict. DAir can work, but the landing lag is atrocious if you don't hit DH on way down. The ranged disjoints of NAir & FAir can let you safely swat the Can away from you and hopefully onto the dog &/or his arsenal. (Power)Shield the Clays and EXPECT the dog to run in for the grab or Dash Attack. so you can escape his followup attempts and possibly punish him for those.

At high enough percents (150+%), DH's Dash Attack CAN KO you, even if it hits your Car, and even WITH good DI, especially if he himself has some rage. It's not just DH's UTilt you'll have to look for if you're at 150+%, unfortunately.

Can DH's UAir beat Jr's DAir? Thankfully, no! DH's DAir & fastfall NAir can lose to Jr's UAir, but timing may be strict, considering how short our UAir lingers for.

I DO wonder if he's posted replay vids of my Jr getting rekt by his DH, so we can gather some more intel on this MU, considering how rare this MU might be....

Edit: I also really want to continue believing that Jr has the slight advantage against DH w/out customs, considering the findings I've posted thus far, at least until someone comes along to try to convince me otherwise.

I may edit this post further as I find new tech on the Jr VS DH MU, until someone else posts here. Until then, here's some new tech: Tossed default Mechakoopa clashes with default Clay.

Aside from a hard read with FSmash near the edges, DAir spikes, and sourspot NAir/Clay?/Gunmen? gimps when he catches you during your Up 1 (which is when you're out of your Clown Car) near the edges, you'll generally live quite a long while, due to not only your heavy weight, great recovery, & proper DI, but also the dog's generally low KO power outside of the aforementioned early KO moments. You'll likely be around until 120-ish% before his UAir, BAir, USmash, can KO you. Sweetspot NAir's at 125+%, DSmash's at 130+%, UTilt's at 150+%, Default Can's at 160+%, Dash Attack's at 170+%.

Thankfully for us, we can generally KO him at earlier percentages than he can KO us, since he's lighter than Mario. Just to review what some of our KO moves are...

KO Moves: BAir
FAir (near the edges, definitely. Most likely, because of how important this move is for building damage, it'll be heavily staled),
UAir
NAir (when going for the stage spike or edgeguard)
FTilt (at 150+% near the edges)
Neutral A string (close to the edge at 130+%? Don't count on the launcher punch to connect too often at that point)
Side B JC -> UAir --> Up B --> A (hammer) KOs at around 75-ish%
Side B JC --> Up B --> A (hammer) KOs at around 100-ish%
FSmash at 90+%
DSmash at 110+%?
USmash at 100+%?
Back Throw at 150+% near the edges
The Spinout during Side B at around 130+% near the edges
Up B in general

Charged Cannonballs to pierce through his arsenal when he's at 100+% would be another good KO move to have on deck.

Chasing him far off-stage for the edgeguard to the point of reaching the edges & coming off as ROB or Villager is a great idea, considering how vulnerable he is when recovering in comparison to us, especially when customs are off and he's forced to not run Snag.

Exercising as much patience and caution as the dog will normally do when he's at KO percent will go a long way in securing stocks. Since we'll generally last quite a while, we should be able to hold on to our built-up rage long enough to KO him at earlier %s than what we'd normally expect to be able to do so at. Of our KO moves, charged Cannonballs, Up B in general, and especially UAir, FAir, & FTilt will be among our safest options for taking stocks.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Bowser Jr.s and Koopalings out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Bowser Jr. (Koopalings) match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/406324/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[Abyssal Lagiacrus]

HEY GUESS WHO REMEMBERED TO DO THINGS HERE

I've complied all the Shulk stuff into the OP.

I've been thinking, would you guys rather have:

• Scheduled characters to discuss like is in the OP
• After we finish a character, decide who to do next

Because I see you guys already discussing Rosa and Duck Hunt, but those aren't until later in the list.

I don't know if this is being updated. I think it would be fine to just ask for and give matchup advice for any matchup in this thread since it doesn't seem like we're doing weekly character discussions.

It's a bit of a tricky situation since not many people play Bowser Jr., and his subforum isn't very active in comparison to characters like Rosalina, for example. That's why I'm asking you guys what you'd like this thread to be now

 

[WispBae]

Hey there ya lil scamps! The doggy boards are discussing this MU and would love your input!

Click... whatever this is... to go straight to the boards!