B-reverse Slide Cancel (example with Sheik)

[Ambrose]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXTNEPqcVo

So I discovered this interesting tech that can be done with a handful of characters. So far, Sheik is the one who can make the most use out of it. This tech utilizes the slide a grounded b-reverse gives you, and by canceling the special attack, your character can move almost right away after the slide. This can be great for mixing up approach options, and as a mind game tool.

What do you guys think?

 

[Wasserwipf]

Nice video, the only part i dislike is the
>So I descovered [...]
This was mentioned on the Sheik boards... 5 days ago I think. Credit goes to @AmKhokar . Everything else is fine.
I must admit, when I read it first i thought it was useless, however you show this to be quite useful... gotta go practise that, i guess.

 

[_Magus_]

Another tool to shoot sheik to top tier.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

This seems more like Sheik tech than anything universally useful, because shield canceling only works for her needles. Its simply a running B-reverse. Although it looks useful for her, I don't know if it would be for others.

I can't recall, is it possible to do a B-reverse then turn it again so it comes out in the direction you were originally facing? I feel like that was possible in Brawl but I don't remember for sure.

 

[Thinkaman]

This seems more like Sheik tech than anything universally useful, because shield canceling only works for her needles. Its simply a running B-reverse. Although it looks useful for her, I don't know if it would be for others.

I can't recall, is it possible to do a B-reverse then turn it again so it comes out in the direction you were originally facing? I feel like that was possible in Brawl but I don't remember for sure.

You can turnabout a reverse-b in the air, but shouldn't be able to on the ground. The turnabout, aka "the last word" on which direction she is facing, is what's giving her the bounce.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

You can turnabout a reverse-b in the air, but shouldn't be able to on the ground. The turnabout, aka "the last word" on which direction she is facing, is what's giving her the bounce.

I don't recall turnabout being the official term for anything but Phoenix Wright episode titles

We should explore if this is possible on the ground in Smash 4 because it could prove to be useful in a lot of ways if it preserves this bounce effect. I'd try it if I brought my 3DS to work with me.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Yeah, this is just a grounded B reverse, but given how useful it is to Sheik, its inevitably gonna get a character specific name, like what would usually happen in brawl

 

[JC Ralls]

Nice, gonna work this into my Diddy ground game. Should be useful when holding a banana.

 

[DeLux]

I've been playing with this using Diddy for a while now since it's an almost direct carry over from Brawl.

inb4DeLuxSlideCancelling

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Playing around with this with ROB (because I forgot that you can't really do grounded BReverses with Gyro since you roll). If you release the opposite direction within a certain number of frames, ROB will do what could best be described as a wavebounced roll. He turns around, but instead of rolling in the opposite direction (the new direction he's facing), he rolls in the direction he was originally dashing in. It seems you have to input the new direction before the Gyro touches the charging base.

I dunno, I thought it was sort of interesting.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

This is interesting for Lucarios as well. It can help us extend our abysmal Force Palm Grab range a tiny bit without canceling it obv. Also a little extra space can help for firing off precise Aura Spheres.

 

[DeLux]

Assuming you can cancel with shield for those moves, if you release the control stick after you reverse, you prevent the rolling. I had a hard time with it on the 2DS Circle pad pro, but practicing it for like a few days helped significantly.

 

[Ambrose]

Nice video, the only part i dislike is the
>So I descovered [...]
This was mentioned on the Sheik boards... 5 days ago I think. Credit goes to @AmKhokar . Everything else is fine.
I must admit, when I read it first i thought it was useless, however you show this to be quite useful... gotta go practise that, i guess.

I discovered this over a week ago, was just busy making the tutorial video. Never saw his post. Cool that he figured it out on his own too.

This seems more like Sheik tech than anything universally useful, because shield canceling only works for her needles. Its simply a running B-reverse. Although it looks useful for her, I don't know if it would be for others.

I can't recall, is it possible to do a B-reverse then turn it again so it comes out in the direction you were originally facing? I feel like that was possible in Brawl but I don't remember for sure.

Could be useful for Diddy. He can do it too, but just not as fast.

 

[DeLux]

I think the real takeaway is that certain moves from Brawl are reverseable now that werent' previously. For example Banana pull is one of those moves.

Diddy's is also particularly useful because you can -
1. Shield cancel popgun mixup into either a Bair or monkey flip
2. You can run past someone, cancel it with a grab since people will hold shield due to the threat of peanut. alternatively could then mixup into a jc usmash or something

Ramifications have been pretty explored in Brawl. I remember seeing Trela do a bit of this stuff with Aura Sphere for mixups.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Assuming you can cancel with shield for those moves, if you release the control stick after you reverse, you prevent the rolling. I had a hard time with it on the 2DS Circle pad pro, but practicing it for like a few days helped significantly.

I doubt this applies to ROB though. I tested by going into training mode and setting speed to 1/4 with L, which is basically frame advance with around +3F error. I held the opposite direction without holding L so that I would just have to release the circle pad as soon as I tapped L, and no matter how close I get it, ROB still rolls.

In Brawl you could cancel Gyro Charge with either shield or roll on the ground, and in the air you could cancel it into normal fall with an airdodge in the first few frames. In Smash 4 you can still cancel aerial Gyro Charge into normal fall with airdodge, but you have to input shield on the same frame as you do Gyro, and then release the shield button nearly immediately. I remember in Brawl you could do grounded BReversed Gyro Charges, but it seems that in smash 4 you can only do grounded turnarounds with it by holding down and diagonally towards the opposite direction.

 

[DeLux]

I just tried it and did it with ROB lol

He doesn't get much momentum reversal though.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Check my edited post. Did you do a grounded BReverse, or just a turnaround?

 

[DeLux]

I was under the impression you can't turnaround special out of run because turn around puts you in pivot animation. So pretty sure I reversed it.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Wait okay my terminology is really rusty so forgive me if I'm using the wrong word. By turnaround I mean a special that turns around, but doesn't reverse momentum. You keep going the same direction you were originally, but you're facing in the opposite direction. Is that what happened?

 

[DeLux]

We are on the same page for terminology and that's not what happened.

Like if it helps, try reversing it and hitting grab instead of shield. Or buffer a jump while holding shield. I can get it most of the time now while just holding shield since you have to be delicate on the reverse, (I'm talking like go from 7:00 to 5:30-5:00 on the pad assuming it's using clock angles from left to right.

I was also under the impression that turn around specials couldn't be done out of run since doing a turn around special puts you into pivot animation, which you can only jump out of.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

We are on the same page for terminology and that's not what happened.

Like if it helps, try reversing it and hitting grab instead of shield. Or buffer a jump while holding shield. I can get it most of the time now while just holding shield since you have to be delicate on the reverse, (I'm talking like go from 7:00 to 5:30-5:00 on the pad assuming it's using clock angles from left to right.

Alright I see. Using grab probably will help, since the button I have mapped to grab is the one used to advance time. I'll try it out then.

 

[S2]

This seems very character specific, but as a Sheik tech it's awesome.

Too bad it's not universal, this is a cool find.

 

[Br0kenEng1ish]

Tech makes me want to drap Greninja for Shiek, really solid for mix-ups and baits. Great find.

 

[Remzi]

This is a nice Marth/Lucina cross-up as well, I've broken more than a few shields with this going back to Brawl. As far as grounded shield cross ups go, its pretty solid.

The possibilities with Sheik are on another level, though. Awesome work and nice video.

 

[PingPongCop]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DXTNEPqcVo

So I discovered this interesting tech that can be done with a handful of characters. So far, Sheik is the one who can make the most use out of it. This tech utilizes the slide a grounded b-reverse gives you, and by canceling the special attack, your character can move almost right away after the slide. This can be great for mixing up approach options, and as a mind game tool.

What do you guys think?

I found that this was really useful if your opponent is in the air, because their only option is to attack, do nothing, or fastfall. And since the move is so quick, Shiek can easily react if the opponent decides not to use an aerial. Thanks for this!

 

[OptimistNic]

It's so mind-boggling how difficult this is to pull off. I might not even bother with it unless it is absolutely a vital mechanic.

 

[Wii Twerk Trainer]

Can Wii Fit Trainer do this as good as sheik?

 

[Judo777]

You can turnabout a reverse-b in the air, but shouldn't be able to on the ground. The turnabout, aka "the last word" on which direction she is facing, is what's giving her the bounce.

I promise you can do turn around bs on the ground (not momentum switching ones) but its crazy hard and I can't reliable replicate it. I have done it several times, and tried to learn to do it in brawl, but never really could. It used to frustrate me a lot.