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auto-canceling fair
- Thread starter .alizarin
- Start date
cisyphus
Smash Ace
I mean, it takes 10 frames for the fair to advance far enough to auto-cancel, so unless you're doing the fair SUPER late, there's no reason it shouldn't be auto-canceling. It can be slower in that you could end your fair on its fifth frame (where the first hitbox comes out) and l-cancel it:
1: Fair startup
2: Fair startup
3: Fair startup
4: Fair startup
5: Fair hitbox (l-cancel can be inputted here at the latest)
6: Landing lag from l-cancel
7: Landing lag from l-cancel
8: Landing lag from l-cancel
9: Landing lag from l-cancel
10: Landing lag from l-cancel
11: Landing lag from l-cancel
12: Landing lag from l-cancel
13: Landing lag from l-cancel
1: Fair startup
2: Fair startup
3: Fair startup
4: Fair startup
5: Fair hitbox
6: Fair hitbox
7: Fair hitbox
8: Fair endlag
9: Fair endlag
10: Fair endlag (autocancel available afterward)
11: Landing lag from auto-cancel
12: Landing lag from auto-cancel
13: Landing lag from auto-cancel
14: Landing lag from auto-cancel
Other than that, idk
dude it's raining
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
- 236
For (empty/spaced) SHFFAC Fair (melee):
1a. If aerial is inputted on first airborne frame (which in melee results in an extra frame worth of gravity being calculated, which shortens your air time by ~2 frames-ish) & earliest fast fall is used:
For (empty/spaced) SHFFAC Fair (PM):
1b. If aerial is inputted on first airborne frame (which in PM does not affect your air time) & earliest fast fall is used:
2. If Fair is inputted on second airborne frame & earliest fast fall is used:
3. Latest autocancel'd SH Fair w/ earliest FF:
For (empty/spaced) SHFFL Fair:
SHFFL Fair landing after earliest active hitbox w/ earliest FF:
The leniency for a SHFFAC Fair is the difference b/w the 'do nothing' frames in the scenarios for earliest and latest Fair inputs. It's not too hard.
All of the above data is for empty/spaced Fairs. If you hit your opponent, everything is delayed by hitlag. I do not know for sure how hitlag affects fastfall timing and the subsequent effect on flight time, but I have included theoretical outcomes. I have listed hitlag frames after the last active hitbox, but they could occur earlier; they just get added on after whenever you land the hit. Also, note that hitting a hurtbox (not a shield) will extend the time of your active hitbox by (hitlag minus 1).
For (on hit) SHFFAC Fair (melee):
1a. If aerial is inputted on first airborne frame & earliest fast fall is used:
For (on hit) SHFFAC Fair (PM):
1b. If aerial is inputted on first airborne frame & earliest fast fall is used:
2. If Fair is inputted on second airborne frame & earliest fast fall is used:
3. Latest autocancel'd SH Fair w/ earliest FF:
For (on hit) SHFFL Fair:
SHFFL Fair hitting with earliest active hitbox w/ earliest FF:
From here:
Sheik's Fair:
7 hitlag, 14 shieldstun
Data from http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-hitboxes-and-frame-data.299984/:
I know I suck at frame conventions, so please forgive me if I mixed up actionable frames with ending frames somewhere.
But please appreciate how I individually color coded each line in each scenario.
I had a lot of this research done b/c I was wondering about shield stun/frame advantage. I know KK has a post about it (for ish, for fox), but my results differed greatly from his for shiek's fair, and I'll get around to sharing my results and asking ppl wut's wut. here
Kadano's Melee Mechanics Vid on landing lag suggests the multiple L-cancel technique to deal with hitlag. So if you want, you can go for an AC Fair, but multi-l-cancel just in case you miss time it and don't know if it'll hit.
1a. If aerial is inputted on first airborne frame (which in melee results in an extra frame worth of gravity being calculated, which shortens your air time by ~2 frames-ish) & earliest fast fall is used:
Grounded actionability after ~32nd frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat; input Fair
4: startlag (first airborne frame; first frame of Fair)
5: startlag (2; 2)
6: startlag (3; 3)
7: startlag (4; 4)
8: hitbox (5; 5)
9: hitbox (6; 6)
10: hitbox (7; 7)
11: endlag (8; 8)
12: endlag (9; 9)
13: endlag (10; 10)
14: endlag (11; 11)
15: endlag (12; 12)
16: endlag (13; 13)
17: endlag (14; 14)
18: endlag (15; 15)
19: endlag (16; 16)
20: endlag (17; 17)
21: endlag (18; 18)
22: endlag (19; 19)
23: endlag; input fastfall (20; 20)
24: endlag (21; 21)
25: endlag (22; 22)
26: endlag (23; 23)
27: endlag (24; 24)
28: endlag (25; 25)
~29: auto cancel (grounded)
~30: auto cancel (grounded)
~31: auto cancel (grounded)
~32: auto cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat; input Fair
4: startlag (first airborne frame; first frame of Fair)
5: startlag (2; 2)
6: startlag (3; 3)
7: startlag (4; 4)
8: hitbox (5; 5)
9: hitbox (6; 6)
10: hitbox (7; 7)
11: endlag (8; 8)
12: endlag (9; 9)
13: endlag (10; 10)
14: endlag (11; 11)
15: endlag (12; 12)
16: endlag (13; 13)
17: endlag (14; 14)
18: endlag (15; 15)
19: endlag (16; 16)
20: endlag (17; 17)
21: endlag (18; 18)
22: endlag (19; 19)
23: endlag; input fastfall (20; 20)
24: endlag (21; 21)
25: endlag (22; 22)
26: endlag (23; 23)
27: endlag (24; 24)
28: endlag (25; 25)
~29: auto cancel (grounded)
~30: auto cancel (grounded)
~31: auto cancel (grounded)
~32: auto cancel (grounded)
For (empty/spaced) SHFFAC Fair (PM):
1b. If aerial is inputted on first airborne frame (which in PM does not affect your air time) & earliest fast fall is used:
Grounded actionability after ~34th frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat; input Fair
4: startlag (first airborne frame; first frame of Fair)
5: startlag (2; 2)
6: startlag (3; 3)
7: startlag (4; 4)
8: hitbox (5; 5)
9: hitbox (6; 6)
10: hitbox (7; 7)
11: endlag (8; 8)
12: endlag (9; 9)
13: endlag (10; 10)
14: endlag (11; 11)
15: endlag (12; 12)
16: endlag (13; 13)
17: endlag (14; 14)
18: endlag (15; 15)
19: endlag (16; 16)
20: endlag (17; 17)
21: endlag (18; 18)
22: endlag (19; 19)
23: endlag; input fastfall (20; 20)
24: endlag (21; 21)
25: endlag (22; 22)
26: endlag (23; 23)
27: endlag (24; 24)
28: endlag (25; 25)
29: endlag (26; 26)
30: endlag (27; 27)
31: auto cancel (grounded)
32: auto cancel (grounded)
33: auto cancel (grounded)
34: auto cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat; input Fair
4: startlag (first airborne frame; first frame of Fair)
5: startlag (2; 2)
6: startlag (3; 3)
7: startlag (4; 4)
8: hitbox (5; 5)
9: hitbox (6; 6)
10: hitbox (7; 7)
11: endlag (8; 8)
12: endlag (9; 9)
13: endlag (10; 10)
14: endlag (11; 11)
15: endlag (12; 12)
16: endlag (13; 13)
17: endlag (14; 14)
18: endlag (15; 15)
19: endlag (16; 16)
20: endlag (17; 17)
21: endlag (18; 18)
22: endlag (19; 19)
23: endlag; input fastfall (20; 20)
24: endlag (21; 21)
25: endlag (22; 22)
26: endlag (23; 23)
27: endlag (24; 24)
28: endlag (25; 25)
29: endlag (26; 26)
30: endlag (27; 27)
31: auto cancel (grounded)
32: auto cancel (grounded)
33: auto cancel (grounded)
34: auto cancel (grounded)
2. If Fair is inputted on second airborne frame & earliest fast fall is used:
Grounded actionability after 34th frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: input Fair (first airborne frame)
5: startlag (2; first frame of Fair)
6: startlag (3; 2)
7: startlag (4; 3)
8: startlag (5; 4)
9: hitbox (6; 5)
10: hitbox (7; 6)
11: hitbox (8; 7)
12: endlag (9; 8)
13: endlag (10; 9)
14: endlag (11; 10)
15: endlag (12; 11)
16: endlag (13; 12)
17: endlag (14; 13)
18: endlag (15; 14)
19: endlag (16; 15)
20: endlag (17; 16)
21: endlag (18; 17)
22: endlag (19; 18)
23: endlag; input fastfall (20; 19)
24: endlag (21; 20)
25: endlag (22; 21)
26: endlag (23; 22)
27: endlag (24; 23)
28: endlag (25; 24)
29: endlag (26; 25)
30: endlag (27; 26)
31: auto cancel (grounded)
32: auto cancel (grounded)
33: auto cancel (grounded)
34: auto cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: input Fair (first airborne frame)
5: startlag (2; first frame of Fair)
6: startlag (3; 2)
7: startlag (4; 3)
8: startlag (5; 4)
9: hitbox (6; 5)
10: hitbox (7; 6)
11: hitbox (8; 7)
12: endlag (9; 8)
13: endlag (10; 9)
14: endlag (11; 10)
15: endlag (12; 11)
16: endlag (13; 12)
17: endlag (14; 13)
18: endlag (15; 14)
19: endlag (16; 15)
20: endlag (17; 16)
21: endlag (18; 17)
22: endlag (19; 18)
23: endlag; input fastfall (20; 19)
24: endlag (21; 20)
25: endlag (22; 21)
26: endlag (23; 22)
27: endlag (24; 23)
28: endlag (25; 24)
29: endlag (26; 25)
30: endlag (27; 26)
31: auto cancel (grounded)
32: auto cancel (grounded)
33: auto cancel (grounded)
34: auto cancel (grounded)
Grounded actionablity after 34th frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: do nothing (first airborne frame)
5: do nothing (2)
6: do nothing (3)
7: do nothing (4)
8: do nothing (5)
9: do nothing (6)
10: do nothing (7)
11: do nothing (8)
12: do nothing (9)
13: do nothing (10)
14: do nothing (11)
15: do nothing (12)
16: do nothing (13)
17: do nothing (14)
18: do nothing (15)
19: do nothing (16)
20: input Fair (17)
21: startlag(18; first frame of Fair)
22: startlag (19; 2)
23: startlag; input fastfall (20; 3)
24: startlag (21; 4)
25: hitbox (22; 5)
26: hitbox (23; 6)
27: hitbox (24; 7)
28: endlag (25; 8)
29: endlag (26; 9)
30: endlag (27; 10)
31: auto cancel (grounded)
32: auto cancel (grounded)
33: auto cancel (grounded)
34: auto cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: do nothing (first airborne frame)
5: do nothing (2)
6: do nothing (3)
7: do nothing (4)
8: do nothing (5)
9: do nothing (6)
10: do nothing (7)
11: do nothing (8)
12: do nothing (9)
13: do nothing (10)
14: do nothing (11)
15: do nothing (12)
16: do nothing (13)
17: do nothing (14)
18: do nothing (15)
19: do nothing (16)
20: input Fair (17)
21: startlag(18; first frame of Fair)
22: startlag (19; 2)
23: startlag; input fastfall (20; 3)
24: startlag (21; 4)
25: hitbox (22; 5)
26: hitbox (23; 6)
27: hitbox (24; 7)
28: endlag (25; 8)
29: endlag (26; 9)
30: endlag (27; 10)
31: auto cancel (grounded)
32: auto cancel (grounded)
33: auto cancel (grounded)
34: auto cancel (grounded)
For (empty/spaced) SHFFL Fair:
SHFFL Fair landing after earliest active hitbox w/ earliest FF:
Grounded actionability after 38th frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: do nothing (first airborne frame)
5: do nothing (2)
6: do nothing (3)
7: do nothing (4)
8: do nothing (5)
9: do nothing (6)
10: do nothing (7)
11: do nothing (8)
12: do nothing (9)
13: do nothing (10)
14: do nothing (11)
15: do nothing (12)
16: do nothing (13)
17: do nothing (14)
18: do nothing (15)
19: do nothing (16)
20: do nothing (17)
21: do nothing (18)
22: do nothing (19)
23: input fastfall (20)
24: do nothing (21)
25: input Fair; input l-cancel (22)
26: startlag (23; first frame of Fair)
27: startlag (24; 2)
28: startlag (25; 3)
29: startlag (26; 4)
30: hitbox (27; 5)
31: l-cancel (grounded)
32: l-cancel (grounded)
33: l-cancel (grounded)
34: l-cancel (grounded)
35: l-cancel (grounded)
36: l-cancel (grounded)
37: l-cancel (grounded)
38. l-cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: do nothing (first airborne frame)
5: do nothing (2)
6: do nothing (3)
7: do nothing (4)
8: do nothing (5)
9: do nothing (6)
10: do nothing (7)
11: do nothing (8)
12: do nothing (9)
13: do nothing (10)
14: do nothing (11)
15: do nothing (12)
16: do nothing (13)
17: do nothing (14)
18: do nothing (15)
19: do nothing (16)
20: do nothing (17)
21: do nothing (18)
22: do nothing (19)
23: input fastfall (20)
24: do nothing (21)
25: input Fair; input l-cancel (22)
26: startlag (23; first frame of Fair)
27: startlag (24; 2)
28: startlag (25; 3)
29: startlag (26; 4)
30: hitbox (27; 5)
31: l-cancel (grounded)
32: l-cancel (grounded)
33: l-cancel (grounded)
34: l-cancel (grounded)
35: l-cancel (grounded)
36: l-cancel (grounded)
37: l-cancel (grounded)
38. l-cancel (grounded)
The leniency for a SHFFAC Fair is the difference b/w the 'do nothing' frames in the scenarios for earliest and latest Fair inputs. It's not too hard.
All of the above data is for empty/spaced Fairs. If you hit your opponent, everything is delayed by hitlag. I do not know for sure how hitlag affects fastfall timing and the subsequent effect on flight time, but I have included theoretical outcomes. I have listed hitlag frames after the last active hitbox, but they could occur earlier; they just get added on after whenever you land the hit. Also, note that hitting a hurtbox (not a shield) will extend the time of your active hitbox by (hitlag minus 1).
For (on hit) SHFFAC Fair (melee):
1a. If aerial is inputted on first airborne frame & earliest fast fall is used:
Grounded actionability after ~38th frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat; input Fair
4: startlag (first airborne frame; first frame of Fair)
5: startlag (2; 2)
6: startlag (3; 3)
7: startlag (4; 4)
8: hitbox (5; 5)
9: hitbox (6; 6)
10: hitbox (7; 7)
11: hitlag; hitbox (7 plus first frame of hitlag equals 8; n/a)
12: hitlag; hitbox (7+2=9; n/a)
13: hitlag; hitbox (7+3=10; n/a)
14: hitlag; hitbox (7+4=11; n/a)
15: hitlag; hitbox (7+5=12; n/a)
16: hitlag (7+6=13; n/a)
17: endlag (8+6=14; 8)
18: endlag (9+6=15; 9)
19: endlag (10+6=16; 10)
20: endlag (11+6=17; 11)
21: endlag (12+6=18; 12)
22: endlag (13+6=19; 13)
23: endlag (14+6=20; 14)
24: endlag (15+6=21; 15)
25: endlag (16+6=22; 16)
26: endlag (17+6=23; 17)
27: endlag (18+6=24; 18)
28: endlag (19+6=25; 19)
29: endlag; input fastfall (20+6=26; 20)
30: endlag (21+6=27; 21)
31: endlag (22+6=28; 22)
32: endlag (23+6=29; 23)
33: endlag (24+6=30; 24)
34: endlag (25+6=31; 25)
~35: auto cancel (grounded)
~36: auto cancel (grounded)
~37: auto cancel (grounded)
~38: auto cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat; input Fair
4: startlag (first airborne frame; first frame of Fair)
5: startlag (2; 2)
6: startlag (3; 3)
7: startlag (4; 4)
8: hitbox (5; 5)
9: hitbox (6; 6)
10: hitbox (7; 7)
11: hitlag; hitbox (7 plus first frame of hitlag equals 8; n/a)
12: hitlag; hitbox (7+2=9; n/a)
13: hitlag; hitbox (7+3=10; n/a)
14: hitlag; hitbox (7+4=11; n/a)
15: hitlag; hitbox (7+5=12; n/a)
16: hitlag (7+6=13; n/a)
17: endlag (8+6=14; 8)
18: endlag (9+6=15; 9)
19: endlag (10+6=16; 10)
20: endlag (11+6=17; 11)
21: endlag (12+6=18; 12)
22: endlag (13+6=19; 13)
23: endlag (14+6=20; 14)
24: endlag (15+6=21; 15)
25: endlag (16+6=22; 16)
26: endlag (17+6=23; 17)
27: endlag (18+6=24; 18)
28: endlag (19+6=25; 19)
29: endlag; input fastfall (20+6=26; 20)
30: endlag (21+6=27; 21)
31: endlag (22+6=28; 22)
32: endlag (23+6=29; 23)
33: endlag (24+6=30; 24)
34: endlag (25+6=31; 25)
~35: auto cancel (grounded)
~36: auto cancel (grounded)
~37: auto cancel (grounded)
~38: auto cancel (grounded)
For (on hit) SHFFAC Fair (PM):
1b. If aerial is inputted on first airborne frame & earliest fast fall is used:
Grounded actionability after ~38th frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat; input Fair
4: startlag (first airborne frame; first frame of Fair)
5: startlag (2; 2)
6: startlag (3; 3)
7: startlag (4; 4)
8: hitbox (5; 5)
9: hitbox (6; 6)
10: hitbox (7; 7)
11: hitlag; hitbox (7 plus first frame of hitlag equals 8; n/a)
12: hitlag; hitbox (7+2=9; n/a)
13: hitlag; hitbox (7+3=10; n/a)
14: hitlag; hitbox (7+4=11; n/a)
15: hitlag; hitbox (7+5=12; n/a)
16: hitlag (7+6=13; n/a)
17: endlag (8+6=14; 8)
18: endlag (9+6=15; 9)
19: endlag (10+6=16; 10)
20: endlag (11+6=17; 11)
21: endlag (12+6=18; 12)
22: endlag (13+6=19; 13)
23: endlag (14+6=20; 14)
24: endlag (15+6=21; 15)
25: endlag (16+6=22; 16)
26: endlag (17+6=23; 17)
27: endlag (18+6=24; 18)
28: endlag (19+6=25; 19)
29: endlag; input fastfall (20+6=26; 20)
30: endlag (21+6=27; 21)
31: endlag (22+6=28; 22)
32: endlag (23+6=29; 23)
33: endlag (24+6=30; 24)
34: endlag (25+6=31; 25)
35: endlag (26+6=32; 26)
36: endlag (27+6=33; 27)
37: auto cancel (grounded)
38: auto cancel (grounded)
39: auto cancel (grounded)
40: auto cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat; input Fair
4: startlag (first airborne frame; first frame of Fair)
5: startlag (2; 2)
6: startlag (3; 3)
7: startlag (4; 4)
8: hitbox (5; 5)
9: hitbox (6; 6)
10: hitbox (7; 7)
11: hitlag; hitbox (7 plus first frame of hitlag equals 8; n/a)
12: hitlag; hitbox (7+2=9; n/a)
13: hitlag; hitbox (7+3=10; n/a)
14: hitlag; hitbox (7+4=11; n/a)
15: hitlag; hitbox (7+5=12; n/a)
16: hitlag (7+6=13; n/a)
17: endlag (8+6=14; 8)
18: endlag (9+6=15; 9)
19: endlag (10+6=16; 10)
20: endlag (11+6=17; 11)
21: endlag (12+6=18; 12)
22: endlag (13+6=19; 13)
23: endlag (14+6=20; 14)
24: endlag (15+6=21; 15)
25: endlag (16+6=22; 16)
26: endlag (17+6=23; 17)
27: endlag (18+6=24; 18)
28: endlag (19+6=25; 19)
29: endlag; input fastfall (20+6=26; 20)
30: endlag (21+6=27; 21)
31: endlag (22+6=28; 22)
32: endlag (23+6=29; 23)
33: endlag (24+6=30; 24)
34: endlag (25+6=31; 25)
35: endlag (26+6=32; 26)
36: endlag (27+6=33; 27)
37: auto cancel (grounded)
38: auto cancel (grounded)
39: auto cancel (grounded)
40: auto cancel (grounded)
2. If Fair is inputted on second airborne frame & earliest fast fall is used:
Grounded actionability after 40th frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: input Fair (first airborne frame)
5: startlag (2; first frame of Fair)
6: startlag (3; 2)
7: startlag (4; 3)
8: startlag (5; 4)
9: hitbox (6; 5)
10: hitbox (7; 6)
11: hitbox (8; 7)
12. hitlag; hitbox (8 plus first frame of hitlag equals 9; n/a)
13: hitlag; hitbox (8+2=10; n/a)
14: hitlag; hitbox (8+3=11; n/a)
15: hitlag; hitbox (8+4=12; n/a)
16: hitlag; hitbox (8+5=13; n/a)
17: hitlag (8+6=14; n/a)
18: endlag (9+6=15; 8)
19: endlag (10+6=16; 9)
20: endlag (11+6=17; 10)
21: endlag (12+6=18; 11)
22: endlag (13+6=19; 12)
23: endlag (14+6=20; 13)
24: endlag (15+6=21; 14)
25: endlag (16+6=22; 15)
26: endlag (17+6=23; 16)
27: endlag (18+6=24; 17)
28: endlag (19+6=25; 18)
29: endlag; input fastfall (20+6=26; 19)
30: endlag (21+6=27; 20)
31: endlag (22+6=28; 21)
32: endlag (23+6=29; 22)
33: endlag (24+6=30; 23)
34: endlag (25+6=31; 24)
35: endlag (26+6=32; 25)
36: endlag (27+6=33; 26)
37: auto cancel (grounded)
38: auto cancel (grounded)
39: auto cancel (grounded)
40: auto cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: input Fair (first airborne frame)
5: startlag (2; first frame of Fair)
6: startlag (3; 2)
7: startlag (4; 3)
8: startlag (5; 4)
9: hitbox (6; 5)
10: hitbox (7; 6)
11: hitbox (8; 7)
12. hitlag; hitbox (8 plus first frame of hitlag equals 9; n/a)
13: hitlag; hitbox (8+2=10; n/a)
14: hitlag; hitbox (8+3=11; n/a)
15: hitlag; hitbox (8+4=12; n/a)
16: hitlag; hitbox (8+5=13; n/a)
17: hitlag (8+6=14; n/a)
18: endlag (9+6=15; 8)
19: endlag (10+6=16; 9)
20: endlag (11+6=17; 10)
21: endlag (12+6=18; 11)
22: endlag (13+6=19; 12)
23: endlag (14+6=20; 13)
24: endlag (15+6=21; 14)
25: endlag (16+6=22; 15)
26: endlag (17+6=23; 16)
27: endlag (18+6=24; 17)
28: endlag (19+6=25; 18)
29: endlag; input fastfall (20+6=26; 19)
30: endlag (21+6=27; 20)
31: endlag (22+6=28; 21)
32: endlag (23+6=29; 22)
33: endlag (24+6=30; 23)
34: endlag (25+6=31; 24)
35: endlag (26+6=32; 25)
36: endlag (27+6=33; 26)
37: auto cancel (grounded)
38: auto cancel (grounded)
39: auto cancel (grounded)
40: auto cancel (grounded)
Grounded actionability after 40th frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: do nothing (first airborne frame)
5: do nothing (2)
6: do nothing (3)
7: do nothing (4)
8: do nothing (5)
9: do nothing (6)
10: do nothing (7)
11: do nothing (8)
12: do nothing (9)
13: do nothing (10)
14: do nothing (11)
15: do nothing (12)
16: do nothing (13)
17: do nothing (14)
18: do nothing (15)
19: do nothing (16)
20: input Fair (17)
21: startlag(18; first frame of Fair)
22: startlag (19; 2)
23: startlag; input fastfall (20; 3)
24: startlag (21; 4)
25: hitbox (22; 5)
26: hitbox (23; 6)
27: hitbox (24; 7)
28: hitlag; hitbox (24 plus first frame of hitlag equals 25; n/a)
29: hitlag; hitbox (24+2=26; n/a)
30: hitlag; hitbox (24+3=27; n/a)
31: hitlag; hitbox (24+4=28; n/a)
32: hitlag; hitbox (24+5=29; n/a)
33; hitlag (24+6=30; n/a)
34: endlag (25+6=31; 8)
35: endlag (26+6=32; 9)
36: endlag (27+6=33; 10)
37: auto cancel (grounded)
38: auto cancel (grounded)
39: auto cancel (grounded)
40: auto cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: do nothing (first airborne frame)
5: do nothing (2)
6: do nothing (3)
7: do nothing (4)
8: do nothing (5)
9: do nothing (6)
10: do nothing (7)
11: do nothing (8)
12: do nothing (9)
13: do nothing (10)
14: do nothing (11)
15: do nothing (12)
16: do nothing (13)
17: do nothing (14)
18: do nothing (15)
19: do nothing (16)
20: input Fair (17)
21: startlag(18; first frame of Fair)
22: startlag (19; 2)
23: startlag; input fastfall (20; 3)
24: startlag (21; 4)
25: hitbox (22; 5)
26: hitbox (23; 6)
27: hitbox (24; 7)
28: hitlag; hitbox (24 plus first frame of hitlag equals 25; n/a)
29: hitlag; hitbox (24+2=26; n/a)
30: hitlag; hitbox (24+3=27; n/a)
31: hitlag; hitbox (24+4=28; n/a)
32: hitlag; hitbox (24+5=29; n/a)
33; hitlag (24+6=30; n/a)
34: endlag (25+6=31; 8)
35: endlag (26+6=32; 9)
36: endlag (27+6=33; 10)
37: auto cancel (grounded)
38: auto cancel (grounded)
39: auto cancel (grounded)
40: auto cancel (grounded)
For (on hit) SHFFL Fair:
SHFFL Fair hitting with earliest active hitbox w/ earliest FF:
Grounded actionability after 44th frame.
1: jumpsquat
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: do nothing (first airborne frame)
5: do nothing (2)
6: do nothing (3)
7: do nothing (4)
8: do nothing (5)
9: do nothing (6)
10: do nothing (7)
11: do nothing (8)
12: do nothing (9)
13: do nothing (10)
14: do nothing (11)
15: do nothing (12)
16: do nothing (13)
17: do nothing (14)
18: do nothing (15)
19: do nothing (16)
20: do nothing (17)
21: do nothing (18)
22: do nothing (19)
23: input fastfall (20)
24: do nothing (21)
25: input Fair (22)
26: startlag (23; first frame of Fair)
27: startlag (24; 2)
28: startlag (25; 3)
29: startlag (26; 4)
30: hitbox(27; 5)
31: hitlag; hitbox; input l-cancel (27 plus first frame of hitlag equals 28; n/a)
32: hitlag; hitbox (27+2=29; n/a)
33: hitlag; hitbox (27+3=30; n/a)
34: hitlag; hitbox (27+4=31; n/a)
35: hitlag; hitbox (27+5=32; n/a)
36: hitlag (27+6=33; n/a)
37: l-cancel (grounded)
38: l-cancel (grounded)
39: l-cancel (grounded)
40: l-cancel (grounded)
41: l-cancel (grounded)
42: l-cancel (grounded)
43: l-cancel (grounded)
44. l-cancel (grounded)
2: jumpsquat
3: jumpsquat
4: do nothing (first airborne frame)
5: do nothing (2)
6: do nothing (3)
7: do nothing (4)
8: do nothing (5)
9: do nothing (6)
10: do nothing (7)
11: do nothing (8)
12: do nothing (9)
13: do nothing (10)
14: do nothing (11)
15: do nothing (12)
16: do nothing (13)
17: do nothing (14)
18: do nothing (15)
19: do nothing (16)
20: do nothing (17)
21: do nothing (18)
22: do nothing (19)
23: input fastfall (20)
24: do nothing (21)
25: input Fair (22)
26: startlag (23; first frame of Fair)
27: startlag (24; 2)
28: startlag (25; 3)
29: startlag (26; 4)
30: hitbox(27; 5)
31: hitlag; hitbox; input l-cancel (27 plus first frame of hitlag equals 28; n/a)
32: hitlag; hitbox (27+2=29; n/a)
33: hitlag; hitbox (27+3=30; n/a)
34: hitlag; hitbox (27+4=31; n/a)
35: hitlag; hitbox (27+5=32; n/a)
36: hitlag (27+6=33; n/a)
37: l-cancel (grounded)
38: l-cancel (grounded)
39: l-cancel (grounded)
40: l-cancel (grounded)
41: l-cancel (grounded)
42: l-cancel (grounded)
43: l-cancel (grounded)
44. l-cancel (grounded)
From here:
Sheik's Fair:
7 hitlag, 14 shieldstun
Data from http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-hitboxes-and-frame-data.299984/:
Sheik:
Airborne on frame 4
Air time: 50
Earliest FF: 26
FF air time: 37
SH air time: 38
Earliest FF: 20
SH FF air time: 27
Sheik's Fair
Total: 33
Hit: 5-7
Auto cancel: <4, >11
Landlag: 16
L canceled: 8
Airborne on frame 4
Air time: 50
Earliest FF: 26
FF air time: 37
SH air time: 38
Earliest FF: 20
SH FF air time: 27
Sheik's Fair
Total: 33
Hit: 5-7
Auto cancel: <4, >11
Landlag: 16
L canceled: 8
I know I suck at frame conventions, so please forgive me if I mixed up actionable frames with ending frames somewhere.
But please appreciate how I individually color coded each line in each scenario.
I had a lot of this research done b/c I was wondering about shield stun/frame advantage. I know KK has a post about it (for ish, for fox), but my results differed greatly from his for shiek's fair, and I'll get around to sharing my results and asking ppl wut's wut. here
Kadano's Melee Mechanics Vid on landing lag suggests the multiple L-cancel technique to deal with hitlag. So if you want, you can go for an AC Fair, but multi-l-cancel just in case you miss time it and don't know if it'll hit.
Last edited:
Professor Gravy
I've got a PhD in delicious
This dosent happen in PM
Last edited:
dude it's raining
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
- 236
Thanks, I actually just noticed that myself. Will fix now.