An un-fed and Uncustomized amiibo hits harder than you.

[Patrick Ray]

So I bought 4 amiibos on the night of launch, DK,Peach, Marth, and Link. Started training them and all was good. I never fed them any items at all because I did not want stats to be altered. After getting them to 50 I can still beat all of them except peach. It was bugging that an AI could dominate me so badly. Then on one match I realized I was sitting at 60% damage only 7-8 seconds in the game. I restarted the match and just sat there, Peach did a back air hitting me for 20% and a Back grab doing 16%, I was at 36% damage in 2 seconds. I was blown away, why is she more powerful than a normal CPU or Player when I have customs turned off and Never fed the amiibo anything. No idea if this is a glitch or is as planned. I played against all my other amiibos and compared moves to find every single one of my amiibos hits harder than a CPU and Player even without being customized or fed.

Now the AI is much better than a normal CPU. You can tell by how they act and react to you. I was however under the impression that only the AI is better, not that they hit harder without actually having any equipment to do so.

Any feed back would be great, I just did not find a post about this anywhere and wanted to express this.

EDIT- It was discovered that Amiibos at 50 do Approx: 1.5% Multiplied Damage. (12% = 18%)
After buying some new Amiibos I found that at lower levels do Approx: 0.65% Multiplied Damage (12%=7%-8%)

 

[Rochette]

That's interesting... I think the most important thing that we have to know is

1- knockback from an amiibo
2- if some amiibo are stronger than an other one

Remember Luigi CPU lv9. He was a little bit better than an other character lv9. But maybe with learning that don't make sense.

We need a lot of test for understand the mechanics of Amiibo. Just by watching some videos, I learn intersting things.

The stage where you fight your Amiibo is important. A lot of Amiibo lv50 commit suicide just because they have learn edgeguarding on a specific type of ledges. I also noticed that Amiibo also adapt to the number of enemies. They could camping or not. They also learn advanced human gameplay, short hop, fast falling. The key of their learning seems to be the repetition. I'm not convinced by using too much things during their first match. And i feel that people level up too fast for understand or discover new informations.

 

[Patrick Ray]

Made a quick video to simply show the amiibo hitting harder even though the settings are normal and custom is turned off.

 

[GreenFlame]

Hmm...interesting. Does more levels equal more power? Are you sure that's not normal damage?

And lol, Lord Peach.

 

[Patrick Ray]

Hmm...interesting. Does more levels equal more power? Are you sure that's not normal damage?

And lol, Lord Peach.

Well if more levels give them more power than that's just blatantly unfair. Its like give them a free handicap. I know the damage output is higher than a player/CPUs. That first hit is a neutral air into a neutral A hitting twice. A direct Neutral air for peach is 13 and her Slaps are 2, then 3, So after those first 3 hits I should be at 18%. However im at 30%

 

[GreenFlame]

Well if more levels give them more power than that's just blatantly unfair. Its like give them a free handicap. I know the damage output is higher than a player/CPUs. That first hit is a neutral air into a neutral A hitting twice. A direct Neutral air for peach is 13 and her Slaps are 2, then 3, So after those first 3 hits I should be at 18%. However im at 30%

I think your choice of name for her has given her incredible powers. It's too late now though, you cannot stop Lord Peach.

 

[the8thark]

So I bought 4 amiibos on the night of launch, DK,Peach, Marth, and Link. Started training them and all was good. I never fed them any items at all because I did not want stats to be altered. After getting them to 50 I can still beat all of them except peach.

How long did it take to level one to 50?

 

[Weldar]

I do remember them mentioning this would be the case before release somewhere actually, though I don't remember where. I beleive they also said a level 1 amiibo actually does less damage than a normal cpu so they do actually gets stats for levels not just learning.

 

[PSIBoy]

I believe as the amiibo's level increases, their stats increase depending on their fighting style up to level 50. Kind of unfair, yeah. But it does provide a nice challenge.

 

[GreenFlame]

I believe as the amiibo's level increases, their stats increase depending on their fighting style up to level 50. Kind of unfair, yeah. But it does provide a nice challenge.

Honestly, you should be able to set "Amiibo level boosts" on or off as a match setting.

 

[Patrick Ray]

How long did it take to level one to 50?

About an hour and a half to two hours. If you make it fight against other Amiibos it levels faster so it depends.

I believe as the amiibo's level increases, their stats increase depending on their fighting style up to level 50. Kind of unfair, yeah. But it does provide a nice challenge.

Yea it is ok for a challenge, but not for 2v2 with your amiibo. Only way to make it fair is for everyone to have an amiibo on their team to even out the fact that they are stronger. It is just a small advantage that makes me limit what I can do in terms of having a fair game.

 

[ChikoLad]

You could sort of rectify this by just using equipment that balances out your own stats to be a little higher.

 

[the8thark]

About an hour and a half to two hours. If you make it fight against other Amiibos it levels faster so it depends.

Wow, that is a lot shorter than I thought it would be. I thought it'd take weeks to do. Still, thanks for the info/

 

[Khao]

: /

I don't like this.

I don't like this at all.

I kinda wanted to use amiibos as a sort-of training partner, or as a replacement for a human player on a team battle. But if they're gonna have more powerful moves than any other player, it'll be pretty much useless for either of those things.

What's the ****ing point of the feeding mechanic for increasing stats, if they do that on their own anyway?

Why can't they just use the default stats for whatever character they are when customizations are off?

I seriously don't understand this, it completely breaks amiibo training apart.


I guess they're still good for "I bet my amiibo can defeat yours! *giggle giggle nerdy snort*" and doing a player+amiibo vs player+amiibo team battle, and those are still fun.

But without this thing, they could be much more. If you want them to become stronger, you could still feed them equipment, this is really a very questionable decision.

 

[GeZ]

I'm surprised people actually thought the Amiibos were designed to be training partners. They're very clearly supposed to be a novelty thing you teach to beat other Amiibos.

If you want to get better at the game play against other players. Even if Amiibos didn't skill ramp, a computer will never emulate a player, so expecting to get better than you could against a CPU with an Amiibo is nonsensical.

These are clearly supposed to be a fun diversion. Not training partner. Use them as that, and train against actual people.

 

[GreenFlame]

: /

I don't like this.

I don't like this at all.

I kinda wanted to use amiibos as a sort-of training partner, but if they're gonna have more powerful moves than any other player, or as a replacement for a human player on a team battle. But if this is true, it'll be pretty much useless for either of those things.

What's the ****ing point of the feeding mechanic for increasing stats, if they do that on their own anyway?

Why can't they just use the default stats for whatever character they are when customizations are off?

I seriously don't understand this, it completely breaks amiibo training apart.


I guess they're still good for "I bet my amiibo can defeat yours! *giggle giggle nerdy snort*" and doing a player+amiibo vs player+amiibo team battle, and those are still fun.

But without this thing, they could be much more. If you want them to become stronger, you could still feed them equipment, this is really a very questionable decision.

I know, right? Why is there no option to turn it off?!?! It sucks.

 

[Ryan Rodrigue]

That explains why my level 50 link Amiibo survived a rest at 64% with no DI

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

Well, now I'm definitely not getting any Amibo.

 

[PHYTO-1]

I'm surprised people actually thought the Amiibos were designed to be training partners. They're very clearly supposed to be a novelty thing you teach to beat other Amiibos.

If you want to get better at the game play against other players. Even if Amiibos didn't skill ramp, a computer will never emulate a player, so expecting to get better than you could against a CPU with an Amiibo is nonsensical.

These are clearly supposed to be a fun diversion. Not training partner. Use them as that, and train against actual people.

^this. all of it

People are getting enraged for something not being what it was not intended to be. (double negative , i know).

"Man wtf this phone sucks. Why does it break when i use it as a hockey puck? Laaaaame"

You guys need to watch this video again at around 2 minutes where Bill Trinen explains how amiibos work

 

[Babali Boon]

I noticed this too! Last night I trained my Mario up to level 50 and I cannot beat it anymore! I'll be to ~60% right when we get in the match pretty much! I was sitting there like... what is going on? Am I getting hit harder than usual? Then I noticed it grabbed me and tossed me and did like 22% damage! And the little monster is so freakin' fast I felt like I wasn't getting very good training in anymore.

Once he gets me to like ~70% as well he starts spamming up-smash pretty much, too, like some PM Fox CPU. And since he does so much more damage now it's just annoying.

 

[Patrick Ray]

I'm surprised people actually thought the Amiibos were designed to be training partners. They're very clearly supposed to be a novelty thing you teach to beat other Amiibos.

If you want to get better at the game play against other players. Even if Amiibos didn't skill ramp, a computer will never emulate a player, so expecting to get better than you could against a CPU with an Amiibo is nonsensical.

These are clearly supposed to be a fun diversion. Not training partner. Use them as that, and train against actual people.

I fight my Amiibos for fun only. I am not using it as a training partner (I have online for that) I just think it is a bit dumb to just make them stronger for no good reason except to maybe give an illusion they are getting better.

 

[Babali Boon]

I fight my Amiibos for fun only. I am not using it as a training partner (I have online for that) I just think it is a bit dumb to just make them stronger for no good reason except to maybe give an illusion they are getting better.

I was at least hoping it would be better to train with on occasion than a level 9 CPU. I do fight online a lot, but often on FF/FG so I don't make any gold. At times I fight CPUs just to make the gold from fighting when no one is around to play with in person.

 

[Jaden]

This is troubling. Why is this a thing when equipment exists for the people who want to change their amiibo's stats?

 

[PF9]

I will never fight against my Pikachu Amiibo, only alongside it. Since Pikachu is also my main, that would basically be two Pikachu fighting alongside one another.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

Not only do they hit harder, they live forever too!

 

[Patrick Ray]

Not only do they hit harder, they live forever too!

Yea...on Average my Peach survives to 150%-200%. Even some charged F-smashes still will not kill her even at 100%+.

 

[Babali Boon]

I just did a few rounds with my level 50 Mario and I still can beat it, it's just a really hard challenge. It's similar a bit to Cruel Smash how the opponents do way too much damage, but not quite as bad.

 

[Inazuma]

Well, there goes any reason I had to buy an Amiibo. Thanks for saving me some money, Nintendo.

 

[Gamingboy]

I kind of feel like them getting stronger regardless might actually make better "training partners", since it leaves you less room for error and thus have to be even better. I mean, if you can beat a roided up Amiibo, then wouldn't you think you'd be able to beat humans with similar play styles who don't have the benefit of those stat boosts?

 

[ChikoLad]

I kind of feel like them getting stronger regardless might actually make better "training partners", since it leaves you less room for error and thus have to be even better. I mean, if you can beat a roided up Amiibo, then wouldn't you think you'd be able to beat humans with similar play styles who don't have the benefit of those stat boosts?

I was kinda thinking that.

I mean, people already say you should use LV.9 CPUs to train your punishing game on 3DS. Because LV.9 CPUs are so on-point with their shielding and dodging (since they read your button inputs), that you should have no problem punishing real players who do the same, since real players will never be better than the CPU at these particular tasks.

 

[Babali Boon]

I kind of feel like them getting stronger regardless might actually make better "training partners", since it leaves you less room for error and thus have to be even better. I mean, if you can beat a roided up Amiibo, then wouldn't you think you'd be able to beat humans with similar play styles who don't have the benefit of those stat boosts?

This is the reason I will still fight mine on occasion. I have already gotten a lot better at fighting it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I wonder if any future updates will fix up this issue. But obviously, no matter how brutal your amiibo is, it's still banned from all single player game modes, since it can't adapt to Master Hand's attacks, let alone Master Core's. Master Fortress may be skipped in co-op mode, but regardless, your amiibo can't save you from Classic Mode's higher intensity levels.

 

[GreenFlame]

Can anyone confirm if the automatic stat boosts amiibo get from levelling up stack with any equipment you add to them? Couldn't you make an ultra strong/tough/fast fighter if the stats do stack?

 

[Gidy]

I wonder if any future updates will fix up this issue. But obviously, no matter how brutal your amiibo is, it's still banned from all single player game modes, since it can't adapt to Master Hand's attacks, let alone Master Core's. Master Fortress may be skipped in co-op mode, but regardless, your amiibo can't save you from Classic Mode's higher intensity levels.

"Single Player game modes"
Can I do anything else with my amiibo but fight it?

 

[Rochette]

I kind of feel like them getting stronger regardless might actually make better "training partners", since it leaves you less room for error and thus have to be even better. I mean, if you can beat a roided up Amiibo, then wouldn't you think you'd be able to beat humans with similar play styles who don't have the benefit of those stat boosts?

I agree with you. I used to train against CPU lv9 with handicap on. We are humans so when the challenge is hard we adapt and we learn. The principal problem during fight against a CPU is their perfect shielding and their computer reading. Amiibo are maybe not perfect sparring partner but I really thinks they are definitly better in that purpose than CPU, extra damage or not. I have to wait the next week to test.

Just let some time to the Amiibo. In fact, we know almost nothing about their mecanism for now.

 

[Tumbleweed Tuner]

I own two amiibos and I am very happy with my purchase and want to a excuse to buy more. Currently, I am not able to defeat my amiibos with the help of my brother, BUT IT IS OK! I normally abhor playing smash with him because we would argue because of our differences of experience. Instead, we are laughing and having fun trying to destroy or amiibos.

The amiibos are so cool with the learning AI, but do not train one by playing as Rosalina. At first, my Samus amiibo had the bad habit of down smashing before players were close enough, as though it was controlling a Luma. It is past that, but while the skills they learn can sometimes be a bit confusing on how exactly they learned them by fighting, enough thought processing will clear it up. Unfamilar to the controls, it took me awhile to learn the star bit shots as Rosalina, so Samus didn't fire many projectiles. Once I started using my side b at a distance, Samus took the idea and ran with it. I always wanted to play Samus, but fire projectiles was never fun for me. I am so happy to see Samus turning the field into a missile storm, something I never could!

It truly is fun to just watch amiibos you trained. Sometimes we fight them to train ourselves, sometimes we watch them fight for a good laugh, sometimes we fight with them simply because it is fun. Watching my Samus get the Smash Ball on that Twlight Princess bridge map, and menacingly walk towards a amiibo Pikachu was hilarous. I was shouting at Samus(Yung Venuz) to shoot Pikachu(Sparky), because Samus was moving turtle pace while Pikachu was sprinting to get as far away as possible, before getting final smashed from a mile away.

While the damage boosting thing does take a little bit of sparkle away, the amiibos feel like they develop a personality based off your flaws. The damage boosting was most likely done to even the playing field with high level players and their trained amiibos. If I get equally destroyed by my amiibo who punishes my stale moves and bad habits , why on earth would I want to buy a comp trained amiibo who is nothing more than another level 9 CPU to me? Unexpectedly, it seems the AI might have a few smokes and mirrors to make it fight better. I am convinced that this was done for my enjoyment and investment, and I eagerly support amiibos as a fun and friendly way to play the game. They may not have comp material, but I was seeking a amiibo I could tell stories about and love, and I got it better than I could have imagined.

Is there a way to reset amiibos to their factory state though? I would love to train my Samus again once I master it in battle.

 

[Gidy]

I own two amiibos and I am very happy with my purchase and want to a excuse to buy more. Currently, I am not able to defeat my amiibos with the help of my brother, BUT IT IS OK! I normally abhor playing smash with him because we would argue because of our differences of experience. Instead, we are laughing and having fun trying to destroy or amiibos.

The amiibos are so cool with the learning AI, but do not train one by playing as Rosalina. At first, my Samus amiibo had the bad habit of down smashing before players were close enough, as though it was controlling a Luma. It is past that, but while the skills they learn can sometimes be a bit confusing on how exactly they learned them by fighting, enough thought processing will clear it up. Unfamilar to the controls, it took me awhile to learn the star bit shots as Rosalina, so Samus didn't fire many projectiles. Once I started using my side b at a distance, Samus took the idea and ran with it. I always wanted to play Samus, but fire projectiles was never fun for me. I am so happy to see Samus turning the field into a missile storm, something I never could!

It truly is fun to just watch amiibos you trained. Sometimes we fight them to train ourselves, sometimes we watch them fight for a good laugh, sometimes we fight with them simply because it is fun. Watching my Samus get the Smash Ball on that Twlight Princess bridge map, and menacingly walk towards a amiibo Pikachu was hilarous. I was shouting at Samus(Yung Venuz) to shoot Pikachu(Sparky), because Samus was moving turtle pace while Pikachu was sprinting to get as far away as possible, before getting final smashed from a mile away.

While the damage boosting thing does take a little bit of sparkle away, the amiibos feel like they develop a personality based off your flaws. The damage boosting was most likely done to even the playing field with high level players and their trained amiibos. If I get equally destroyed by my amiibo who punishes my stale moves and bad habits , why on earth would I want to buy a comp trained amiibo who is nothing more than another level 9 CPU to me? Unexpectedly, it seems the AI might have a few smokes and mirrors to make it fight better. I am convinced that this was done for my enjoyment and investment, and I eagerly support amiibos as a fun and friendly way to play the game. They may not have comp material, but I was seeking a amiibo I could tell stories about and love, and I got it better than I could have imagined.

Is there a way to reset amiibos to their factory state though? I would love to train my Samus again once I master it in battle.

There is a reset amiibo data option in the settings

 

[Rochette]

The amiibos are so cool with the learning AI, but do not train one by playing as Rosalina. At first, my Samus amiibo had the bad habit of down smashing before players were close enough, as though it was controlling a Luma.

That's interesting and funny !

Where is my Luma ?
Luma ?

It's a confirmation. It's better, at first, to train your Amiibo with the same characters. But I think learning from an other character could be surprising...

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

You could sort of rectify this by just using equipment that balances out your own stats to be a little higher.

There is a reset amiibo data option in the settings

If you combine these two ideas, it basically means that even if the amiibos can obtain elevated stats, you could theoretically drop their stats down to "normal" levels by feeding them custom equipment that lowers their stats. Granted, it would be tedious to obtain the right gear to pull that off, but it could be possible. And if you mess up? Reset their stats, and try again.

This is indeed quite annoying for the people who wanted to have them as training partners, however.


EDIT: Your amiibo has a ~1.5x damage multiplier on it.

 

[freefun55]

I knew something was fishy