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"Alpha" form stages

Would you like to see Alpha form stages in a Smash game?


  • Total voters
    62

SM Sola

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
47
Location
Melbourne, Australia
This is something I've wanted in Smash 4 since it first came out. Omega form is nice, don't get me wrong - but theres only so many times you can play the same layout.
Nice work!
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
4,743
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Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
Both Alpha and Omega modes are bad for the game. Stages with hazards that are carefully balanced make for great casual play and counterpicks and many of the earlier SSB stages managed to be both fair for competitive play and interesting to fight on. Adding all these extra modes, however, gives the developers free reign to throw balance out the window and make stages that aren't even fun for casual play because you're having to spend the entire game fighting the stage rather than eachother.

Hell, look at Digimon Rumble Arena 2. Only one stage in that has been free from complaints by my friends and it's the absolute most hazard filled. Why? Because it's their equivalent of FD, made specifically for the boss battle. Initially quite simple and flat in design, the stage soon starts throwing in practically every hazard they could think of but it signposts them all well and balances them such that most aren't too devastating. Only the falling floor can catch you out and, unless you're very campy, you should never be in a position where you can't move away unharmed if you're paying attention.
The need to react to hazards is game changing in that it breaks up infinites and prevents spam, forcing more thoughtful play while remaining mild enough that the PvP is still the main focus.
It's not a good game by any means but it's a good stage and a good example. Not sure how well documented it is but the stage is called "Chaos Wasteland" if anyone's interested.
 

Munomario777

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
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Location
Charleston, South Carolina
3DS FC
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Both Alpha and Omega modes are bad for the game. Stages with hazards that are carefully balanced make for great casual play and counterpicks and many of the earlier SSB stages managed to be both fair for competitive play and interesting to fight on. Adding all these extra modes, however, gives the developers free reign to throw balance out the window and make stages that aren't even fun for casual play because you're having to spend the entire game fighting the stage rather than eachother.

Hell, look at Digimon Rumble Arena 2. Only one stage in that has been free from complaints by my friends and it's the absolute most hazard filled. Why? Because it's their equivalent of FD, made specifically for the boss battle. Initially quite simple and flat in design, the stage soon starts throwing in practically every hazard they could think of but it signposts them all well and balances them such that most aren't too devastating. Only the falling floor can catch you out and, unless you're very campy, you should never be in a position where you can't move away unharmed if you're paying attention.
The need to react to hazards is game changing in that it breaks up infinites and prevents spam, forcing more thoughtful play while remaining mild enough that the PvP is still the main focus.
It's not a good game by any means but it's a good stage and a good example. Not sure how well documented it is but the stage is called "Chaos Wasteland" if anyone's interested.
I am quite late to the party on this, but...

If the developers make bad stages just because of the excuse of an omega / alpha form, then that is their fault, not the fault of the concept of omega / alpha form stages. If handled correctly, alpha stages really would add something to the game: the choice to play a stage using a competitive layout, or using a more casual, perhaps zanier layout.

Stages with hazards, if done right, can indeed be really fun in casual play. But in a competitive setting, the factor that should ideally decide the victor is the skill of the players. RNG-based hazards, unconventional layouts, etc often get in the way of this – so stages with those attributes are often banned (but in some cases, e.g. Halberd, they may not be considered disruptive enough to necessitate a ban). If an option is presented to play on, say, Kalos but without all of the crazy hazards, or Luigi's Mansion without the caves of life and projectile-blocking pillars, then that's just more variety for the competitive scene.
 

ryuu seika

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
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Amidst the abounding light of heaven!
But, at the same time, Kalos' adjustable height platforms, for example, would be a sad loss And an adapted Luigi's Mansion would not be Luigi's Mansion anymore. Not every hazard is detrimental to gameplay like the ones that warrant a ban or even those on Halberd. Some can genuinely promote interesting gameplay and/or player interaction without breaking the game.
 
Last edited:

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
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33,908
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This sounds like a great idea. I've found "Final Destination" style to be fairly boring, and not really balanced either, as it helps projectile users like Falco way more than most.

It's not really a solution, but a nice option. Omega Stages were a nice option too.

A hazard switch is a good 3rd option, and the best solution, while the others should stay as fun options. Plus, the Omega stages come in at least two varieties anyway. Either a FD regular, or one that is a huge tower without an actual underside that players can camp under to stall for time. It also makes edgeguarding more unique, since trying to hit them into the under area can either make it harder for them to recover, or let them tech onto the wall part to make it easier for them to recover. It creates a risky play that makes the game more fun and interesting.
 

Munomario777

Smash Master
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Nov 18, 2014
Messages
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But, at the same time, Kalos' adjustable height platforms, for example, would be a sad loss And an adapted Luigi's Mansion would not be Luigi's Mansion anymore. Not every hazard is detrimental to gameplay like the ones that warrant a ban or even those on Halberd. Some can genuinely promote interesting gameplay and/or player interaction without breaking the game.
If you don't like the alpha stages, then don't play on them. The original forms are still there for you to enjoy.

In a competitive environment, stages that do not interrupt the fight are optimal, because tournaments aim to test skill (and there is a considerable amount of cash on the line!). Regarding Halberd specifically, this is why the stage has been banned in more recent tournaments.
 

Tailisu10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
276
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TailisuTheTen
3DS FC
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Modders are already making "alpha" stages over the "omega" ones, which is something I have been waiting for. I agree that these should have been the omega stages from the start.

Also, I find this whole stage hazard thing to be a separate discussion, if the developers wants to make most of the stages as ridiculous as possible, then that's on them. Omega mode's nonexistence in Brawl didn't exactly prevented crazy stages from being made.
 
Last edited:

BigHairyFart

Salty Supreme
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Jan 10, 2013
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866
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Kansas City, MO
NNID
JackAzzMcTittles
I love the idea of these, but I doubt any of them will actually be used in tournaments due to the difficulty both running mods, and changing already-established rules.
 

Swevester

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
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109
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Over here, duh.
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These are all great but I have a suggestion to use the Swordfighting Duel part of the transformation on Wuhu Island. It's a completely flat stage that can have the same platform as the original Alpha idea, except I believe you can wall jump on that part of the stage and it's a lot more...idk...stable. it's already in the game and is not used as the stage's Omega version (kind of a waste if you ask me) so maybe it could be the Alpha stage?
 

asia_catdog_blue

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 31, 2010
Messages
994
Pirate Ship - The alpha form of this stage is based on the portion of the Original form in which the ship is in the clouds. At the beginning of the match, the ship would be lifted into the air by the cyclone. Once in the air, the ship would not come back down for the entire match. All traps, enemies, and transformations would be removed.

What logical thing is keeping it in the air at all times?
 
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