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A Guide to DI, Smash DI, C-stick DI, Teching and Crouch Cancelling --- Updated

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by Doraki, Dec 1, 2005.

  1. Doraki

    Doraki Smash Lord

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    Introduction :

    The most important part of this guide is explaining in details how Directionnal Influence (DI) precisely works, how it is done and how it works with Teching.

    DIing is basically anything you can do when you are taking a hit to affect your trajectory. (I'm not talking about Aerial Control, which has nothing to do with being hit)
    DI can be divided in 3 parts : Smash DI (SDI), Automatic Smash DI (ASDI), and Regular DI (I'll keep it at DI)

    Good DI will allow you to change your trajectory at high % so that you don't die, tech or wall-tech a lot of things if you're hit near a wall, and gives you means to escape from almost any sort of combo.

    Smash DI :

    When you take a hit, there are frames of hitlags where you're frozen and stay in place before being sent flying. The number of hitlag frames varies between 2-3 up to around 18 with Samus's Fully Charged Shot, or burner hits in BtT stages.

    During those frame, you can move around using Smash DI.
    If you smash the Control Stick in one direction, your character will move instantly in that direction. It doesn't go very far, but it can still save your life sometimes.

    If the hit is techable, Smash DI can be used to move yourself into a wall or a ceiling and you'll be able to tech. If you miss the tech, you might bounce on the wall/ceiling
    However Smash DIing into the ground can't make you tech (it would clearly be broken)

    Forbidden Smash DI :

    If you are on the ground and are hit by a non-techable move that sends you horizontally or downwards, you won't be able to Smash DI up.
    I call this Forbidden Smash DI. It would in fact be broken because you would take the hit airborne, you would land on the ground without any stun.
    The developpers saw this and prevented that from happening.
    Forbidden Smash DI makes sure you stay stunned on the ground when you're hit by Fox's Aerial Down A, Fox's shine or any other relatively weak hit nailing you into the ground.
    (However I've seen CPUs breaking that rule in Adventure mode )

    Multiple Smash DIing :

    If you are fast with the control stick you can sometimes input several Smash DIs
    This is basically what you do when you use the so-called "Quarter-circle DI".

    In the Perfect Control Video, there is a clip where a Mario on Jungle Japes takes a Charge Shot from the left, use Smash DI on each frame of hitlag alternating between down-left and up-left, and finally Smash DIs up into a ceiling and wall-tech-jumps there.

    Regular DI :

    After the hitlag, your character starts flying from the hit.

    Regular DI will influence your trajectory, it has been known for more than a year now.
    DIing along the same line of the defaut trajectory doesn't affect it at all. What does work and what saves your life at high % is having a DI perpendicular to the defaut trajectory.

    Automatic Smash DI :

    An Automatic Smash DI takes place there on the 1st frame after the hitlag.
    It's automatic because you don't have to smash anything to do it, the game just reads the position of your control stick or C-stick on the last frame of hitlag.
    The C-stick outprioritizes the control stick. You can hold 2 different directions, the game will use the C-stick for the ASDI : you can DI one way and ASDI another way.

    The ASDI is exactly like Smash DI except that it goes less far, and you don't see it very well because you're sent flying at the same time.
    On techable hits, it can make you tech on walls or ceiling just as well.
    One very important thing is that you can tech on the floor as well if the ASDI makes you go down on that frame.
    The instant ground techs on other moves than Fox's shine all come from this.

    ASDI Down, the true Crouch Cancelling effect :

    If you're grounded and take a move that sends you upwards but not very fast, ASDIing down'll make you go downwards on that frame. You'll then either bounce/tech if the hit is techable, or just land with no stun.

    If you're grounded and take a move that sends you down, if it's untechable, Forbidden Smash DI applies and you'll stay stunned on the ground whatever you try to do (DI doesn't seem to work in those cases, too.)
    If it's techable, you'll see a green flash on the ground at the beginning of the hitlag and you'll be sent up. You can try to ASDI down that and you may bounce/tech that hit.

    For example, Fox's Aerial Down A sends you downwards and is never techable.
    Falco's Aerial Down A sends you downwards and becomes techable at low/middle %
    Falco's Phantasm sends you up if you're grounded but sends you down when you're in the air, and it's always techable.
    Fox's shine sends you horizontally when you're grounded.

    DI on throws and phantom hits :

    Most throws don't have any hitlag window, so only Regular DI can be used when you're thrown.
    Jigglypuff's forward throw is so far the only exception I know of, it has hitlag and can be DI'd like a regular hit (thanks Magus for this)
    Phantom hits doesn't send you anywhere, but you can still use SDI or ASDI when you're taking a Phantom hit.
    Phantom hits happen when your hitbox and the move's hitbox are tangent. A very bad idea is to SDI or ASDI into the hitbox of the move while it's still there, because you'll then take the hit like normal.

    Crouch Cancelling :

    CCing is what happens when you're crouching while taking a hit.
    It tremendously reduces the knockback of the move, reduces the hitlag, and the move is weakened so you must be at higher %age to tech it (or it makes the move completely untechable, like Fox's shine)

    You have to be crouching to crouch cancel, if you're not crouching you're not crouch cancelling.

    Usually you're DIing down with the control stick when you're CCing, which makes you ASDI down on the weakened move, thus makes you land right after the hitlag (or bounce on the ground if you're at high %age) :
    CCing weakens the move and ASDI down makes you stay grounded.

    Teching :

    Teching is simple : In order to tech a hit you have to press L in a 20-frame window before bouncing on a wall/floor/ceiling.
    The tricky thing put in by the developpers is that pressing L during the hitlag of a move will prevent you from teching, except if it's the last frame of hitlag and you're bouncing on the next frame or if you're SDIing into the wall and pressing L on the same frame.
    That's why in order to tech a hit while you're recovering or in order to ground tech you absolutely have to press L before being hit or have insane precision/reflex.

    If you tech on a wall, you can perform a wall jump, with any character. You have to hold up or jump in the first few frames after the tech.

    How Smash DI helps edge teching :

    When you get hit near the edge, for example by Marth's f-smash, your trajectory don't send you into the wall at all.
    At middle %, a simple ASDI towards the stage will make you hit the wall, as long as you aren't sent away too fast. It works just like how ASDIing down makes you stay grounded .

    However, at higher %age, this won't be enough. Moreover, the more damage you get from the hit, the longer you'll stay in hitlag before you tech, which means a more difficult timing for pressing L, because those hitlag frames are removed from the 20 frames window for the tech.

    Now, if you learn to press L and do a Smash DI around 15-20 frames later, the tech will be guaranteed :
    Instead of waiting for hitlag to end and use ASDI to touch the wall, the hitlag will transfer into teching the moment you did the smash DI.
    This is very easy : Press L, then slam the stick towards the stage. Regardless of what your opponent is doing, it'll most likely work.

    As to what happens afterwards, the moment when you tech doesn't matter, everything will be as if you only teched at the end of the hitlag : you will start moving again at the end of the hitlag and you'll still have invincibility frames then.
    I think that using smash DI also makes wall-jumping easier since you have more time (the remaining hitlag frames) to press up on the control stick.

    Teching isn't button mashing :

    In order to tech, you have to get a precise timing and not resort to button mashing.
    Whenever you press L, it enables you to tech in the 20 following frames, but it also prevents you completely from using L to tech again in the following 40 frames.

    It's not obvious, but it's very important when you're being comboed.
    Has it ever happened to you, when you're being comboed,that you missed a tech even though you pressed L at the right time ?
    This is the reason it didn't work. You had pressed L earlier and you didn't wait enough time before pressing L again to tech.
    Note that if this happens, you can keep missing techs.

    A guaranteed way to miss every tech is to press L too often, like twice per second.

    When you're comboing, listening to your opponent's controller can be useful in some cases. Sometimes you know he won't be able to tech the following move of your combo.

    Also, L-cancelling involves pressing L so you may want to learn to L-cancel without pushing the shoulder button the whole way (it's unnecesary), or to L-cancel with Z.
    Just in case.

    How to use DI :

    To escape from a combo, use proper Smash DI, ASDI and proper DI. Know what you can do, where you want to go, and how DI affects your trajectory.

    To walltech more moves when you're recovering, Smash DI and ASDI towards the wall.

    To survive from a powerful move, DI to the perpendicular of your trajectory and preferably upwards, while ASDIing towards the stage with the C-stick.

    To ground-tech a hit, DI to the perpendicular of your trajectory and preferably down, while ASDIing down with the C-stick.

    IMO CCing should only be used to Crouch Cancel Counter. Why be sent flying when you could shield instead ?

    Final words

    The invisible ceiling glitch has nothing at all to do with this !

    I'll do my best to answer any question and to update this guide with any useful information =)
    kid tipper, Altanic, Sinji and 14 others like this.
  2. darkshadows

    darkshadows Smash Journeyman

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    first!

    great post Doraki...just where did you find all this information?
    (Do you work for HAL?)
  3. Uncle Meat

    Uncle Meat Smash Champion

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    Stickystickystickyit!
  4. aho43

    aho43 Smash Lord

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    amazing post
  5. D1

    D1 Smash Master

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    Good sh** mang even tho backthen in my thread about Smash DI you kept refuting it, now you finally say its true eh?

    lol Idon't care if me, Lord HDL, and Omni get no credit...your thread is neater and more informative anyways.
    shadrach kabango likes this.
  6. SonicZeroX

    SonicZeroX Smash Lord

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    MORE stuff to practice! :urg:

    Oh well it will be fun if someone hits me with a charge shot while recovering and I fly back to the stage.
  7. BIG. G

    BIG. G Smash Apprentice

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    goodshiit man
  8. Doraki

    Doraki Smash Lord

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    D1 :

    Well, back there in your thread, I think me and Omnigamer mentionned Smash DI as I did up there, but I didn't thought it was very effective at that time, and you weren't explaining how it worked at all. Me and Omni had done a good deal of frame by frame testing, we already knew how it worked, and we explained it, once, at the beginning of the thread. I didn't care much about what you and Lord HDL said afterwards.
  9. Time/SpaceMage

    Time/SpaceMage Smash Ace

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    Wow, I think I finally understand it! I'm going to read it over a few more times and refer my friends to this thread.
    By the way, I was wondering about something. After wall or ceiling teching, do you regain your double jump?
  10. Thomaz

    Thomaz Smash Lord

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    Good **** Doraki. ^___^

    This finally explains some DI questions I had. Keke.
  11. Nihonjin

    Nihonjin Striving 4 Perfection

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    Nice post Drki O_O
    How long did it take you to write all this ;____;?
  12. Brookman

    Brookman Smash Hero

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    holy....::explodes::
  13. grayfox

    grayfox Smash Champion

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    Only Doraki. This guy is the only French guy apart from Makenshi that can DI. True.
  14. DarkBlade

    DarkBlade Smash Apprentice

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    Question. Ive noticed this from being hit and not teching alot but does pushing L while in the hitlag Then push R on the last frame allow you to tech or is the L/R system a 1 butten at a time kinda thing. In other words Would hiting R Right after L help in any way in this case?

    Also, Thanks Very Much For This Information Posted So In Depth. Really Answers Alot Of Things On Mind.
  15. Doraki

    Doraki Smash Lord

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    No, pressing L during hitlag completely prevents you from teching even if you press L or R at the right time with button mashing or whatever.
    Even if you pressed L correctly before the hit, if you press L or R again during the hitlag, you'll miss the tech.
    I also know that you can't tech 2 consecutive hits. There is a window after a tech where you can't tech, but I don't have the specifics of it.
  16. Jerom

    Jerom Smash Rookie

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    Baka

    And of course you've played every french to say this...... -_-"

    Bon guide Doraki, ca gagnerait a être traduit sur un topic du CF quand il sera de nouveau en ligne ^^"
  17. pkmvodka

    pkmvodka Smash Lord

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    The room is shorter than 2 consecutive hits of peach's down smash then.
  18. rmusgrave

    rmusgrave BRoomer

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    I was under the impression that the C-stick didn't affect DI at all. I know you can CC with the c-stick, but only for hits that don't break the CC. >_>'
  19. AngeloBangelo

    AngeloBangelo Smash Lord

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    Great post. This is very helpful and taught me a lot of things I didn't even know. I don't know if this is worthy of it's own sticky, but maybe a link added to the Compendium under the "DI" definition, along with all of the other definitions or something. I'm not sure where it'd be stickied, but it should definitely be updated often and kept up with.

    Once again, great post.
  20. Doraki

    Doraki Smash Lord

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    No, if you did an up-b, an airdodge, a double jump, or started any move that makes you lose it, you won't get it back.

    If you're talking about 2 different down smashes, yes, but if I tech the 1st hit and if I'm hit by the 4th hit, I can't tech that one.
  21. Helios

    Helios BRoomer

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    <3 <3 <3 Doraki

    This is like THE most useful guide on SWF. Although I was using this earlier, it's nice to know the theory behind it. Massive European DI for teh win!
  22. Vall3y

    Vall3y Smash Lord

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    great stuff
    was needed long ago
    add to compadium plz O_O
  23. show-da-skill

    show-da-skill Smash Apprentice

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    first of all great post. im still curious to what exactly the c-stick will do on a smash-DI? i dont know if thats the right word. but lets say marth get a tipper on me at 35% i can hit c-stick down and joystick up, that would do what exactly?
  24. SuperRoyario1

    SuperRoyario1 Smash Cadet

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    I don't understand it. I second Show's question.
  25. Doraki

    Doraki Smash Lord

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    You'd go up then slightly down then up.
    I've recorded that with Fox's upsmash in slow motion melee.
    I can record at 30 hz so that means you can watch it frame by frame with programs like VirtualDub.
    http://captainlama.free.fr/ssbm/Smash DI up Cstick DI down.mpg
  26. SuperRoyario1

    SuperRoyario1 Smash Cadet

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    Oh I get it now. Seems like it might be very usful.
  27. show-da-skill

    show-da-skill Smash Apprentice

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    umm im not retarded but i dont see what u are tlakignabout. i think i know but i ma still curious, that video didnt show me anything. what did utry to show? fox gettign hit at 0% with another fox usmash? how can that show di? sorry if this is an inconvenience. u dont have i will beleive you, lol.
  28. Buddha

    Buddha Smash Apprentice

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    The video shows one Fox being hit by another Fox with his Upsmash -- in slow motion. As you can see, unlike a normal Upsmash that would send the Fox flying upwards, the Fox (the one recieving the hit) Smash-DI/ASDI downwards. This causes him to stay in a relative central position and not go flying anywhere.

    (edit: ahhh i see. nevermind on the thump.)

    p.s. doraki -- bravo on the post. great stuff.
  29. Doraki

    Doraki Smash Lord

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    I advise trying to watch it frame by frame.
    When the fox takes the up smash, he Smash DIs up, which makes him move around the level of the other fox's head. After the hitlag, which is the same for both foxes, you can see him going slightly down because I was holding the C-stick down, thus doing an ASDI down instead of up. Since he was at 0%, the upwards speed of the upsmash was less than the ASDI down, that's why when you add it up,Fox goes down on that frame. But on the other frames, he goes up like normal when you take an upsmash at 0%.

    I've drawn this to explain better :
    [​IMG]

    Buddha, the "thump" noise you're hearing is just the fox landing.

    If the framerate was higher than 60 hz, you would be able to ground tech more moves ! =o
  30. show-da-skill

    show-da-skill Smash Apprentice

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    thanks, i think i am at the point wher ei cant understand any more. but i get it, i willjust try to use it first hand :) thank you, great thread man.
  31. grayfox

    grayfox Smash Champion

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    Nah, only the good ones - who i pwn.
  32. Vall3y

    Vall3y Smash Lord

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    umm can you smash di with the c-stick?
  33. Bob Money

    Bob Money Smash Ace

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    So u CANT DI LEFT AND RIGHT WITH THE c-stick,? tried with red shell and it didnt work.
    and u can only double stick DI one the ground right? cant DI with cstick in the air right?
    and are u technically in theair during hit lag? :psycho: :psycho: :psycho:
  34. Poilon

    Poilon Smash Cadet

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    First post :p
    ... I can DI, smash DI, crouch cancel and ASDI .... :p (ask JD, doraki or Makenshi ;) )

    It's too bad that I haven't played with you Helios at FFT2, I hope soon ( I was 4th ).
  35. grayfox

    grayfox Smash Champion

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    I don't beleive you.
  36. Doraki

    Doraki Smash Lord

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    I don't think so, it's hard to test that anyway.
    well, the effect of C-stick DI (ASDI) is barely visible.. you can ASDI with the C-stick in the air as well as on the ground. Try to catch someone in Fox's down-air in midair, ASDI with the C-stick can be seen well then.
    SDI and ASDI can be used to tech / wall-tech hits... and to escape combos such as fox's up-air or down-air or zelda's forward-smash.

    Something I noticed recently :
    SDI/ASDIing into a wall can make you tech but it may not make you bounce if you miss the tech..
    I think the attack has to send you towards the wall if you want to bounce in it, but I've seen strange things ..

    Grayfox, we were still explaining smash DI to makenshi after FFT2.. and stop pointless trash-talking, cuz you see that the french who don't know you don't like it.
  37. Cort

    Cort Apple Head

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    Very nice guide, should add some videos to demonstrate examples and it would be... that much better.

    ^^b
  38. Cra$hman

    Cra$hman Smash Lord

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    Why hasn't this been locked yet?
  39. Brookman

    Brookman Smash Hero

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    omg cort finally has 69 posts!
  40. Hawk Eye

    Hawk Eye Smash Cadet

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    This is definitely useful information, considering most of the time, me and my friends wall tech and DI by accident, not knowing exactly how we did it, but knowing we did it. Knowing all of this, now we could actually practice it and do it on command, or at least some of the time... But hey, some of the time is better then relying on chance whenever you get hit.

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