Meta Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Lucas

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina Match-Up Analysis R2 - Lucas

Welcome to the Rosalina vs. Lucas match-up analysis thread. This thread will be used to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Lucas. For all the rules on the round 2 match-up discussions, please refer to the directory thread.

Lucas does not have any custom special moves. However, he can still face fighters who do have custom special moves to use. As a result, if Rosalina is using her custom special moves against Lucas, the match should be treated as a "Default + Custom" scenario.

Last Updated: 4/24/2016

Special Moves Allowed| |
Default only | | -0.5 - ±0
Default + Custom | | +0.5

Spoiler: Score Inputs

Default only
alexthepony: -2 - -1
BornABrawler: -1 - ±0
Kaishin: ±0
Kodystri: ±0
PKBeam: ±0 - +1
Tizio Random: ±0

Default + Custom
Kaishin: +1
Kodystri: ±0

 

[Kodystri]

I will give an analysis later today or Sunday.

 

[Kaishin]

I swear to god this is even despite Rosalina being considered a much better character.

Lucas wins neutral really easily thanks to his myriad of safe options in his PK Fire and his zair. It's also much more difficult to edge guard him than Ness thanks to his tether (still do-able between dtilt and dabuz edgeguard). He doesn't get as much off of them, which is a huge loss for him, but they're much safer. With a character as light as Lucas fighting someone with punishes as brutal as Rosalina's, safer is definitely better. While Ness is busy being a glass cannon Lucas is busy not dying.

He also escapes combos easier thanks to his better air speed and has a kill throw that sends us in the worst direction possible. Rather ironic how Rosalina is the cosmic queen but gets sent into space so easily.

At the very least he is a much better choice than Ness in this MU. +0 without customs.

Never fought a Lucas with customs but it's easy enough to guess what will happen. He can absorb SSL just like Ness so it's arguably worse than Star Bits. Luma Warp is nasty though since it utterly destroys Lucas's zone when we need to get kills. It doesn't help much outside of that though, since as you all know Luma does next to no damage with any of its physical moves. +1 for us with customs.

 

[Kodystri]

Okay, sorry about the delay. I said Sunday(Its obviously Sunday).

Anyways, the MU analysis


Basic Information

First of all, do not treat Lucas as another Ness. They are, and play completely different. If you try to play Lucas as Ness, you will fail miserably. Or trying to play Lucas as it is another freebie Ness, prepare to lose.

Like I did with the Ness part, I will happily Link @Neos and @Gadiel_VaStar to overcheck things as they play me constantly and they are amazing Rosalinas <3(And makes me get salty everytime I lose to them).

Boy From Nowhere
+Reliable ways to get rid of Luma in PK Fire, PK Freeze, Dash Attack, Nair, DSmash, FSmash, and Fair unlike his PK Friend.
+PK Freeze is actually usable in this MU and can't be Gravitational Pulled.
+Much harder to edgeguard thanks to the Mr. Snake and his long recovery unlike his PK CounterPart.
+Down Throw Combos work well without Luma interrupting it(Atleast I haven't had Luma interrupt me if I act out fast enough...)
+Down Throw can mean get rid of Luma or Combo Rosa.
+Zair is annoying for Rosa to deal with because it interrupts Luma.
+Can Easily combo Rosalina with Nairs and Dairs.
+Lucas can edgeguard Rosalina pretty well as her recovery is telegraphed to a certain extent(Either grab the edge or overshoot) Both can be punished by Down Smash or Bair and Up Smash respectively.


The Star Fortress
+Dair edgeguards Lucas pretty well assuming Lucas doesn't overshoot past the edge and opts to not use Rope Snake to Recover
---+Even then, Lucas has tons of endlag with PKT2, so that should be a free Up Smash or FSmash or whatever you feel like doing.
+Lucas is kind of floaty as well, and Rosalina can deny landing options. Lucas can really only mix it up with PSI Magnet and Wavebounce PK Fire.
+Although the gimps are not as easy as Ness, Lucas can be edgeguarded with 50/50s.
+Luma makes it extremely difficult for Lucas to approach
+Lucas lacks approach options.
+Lucas lacks kill moves before 110% on you except Smash Attacks, so you should be able to live fairly long if you don't get grabbed
+With Luma, you are immune to the Down Throw Footstool 0% to Death.
+You give no ****s about Lucas's Up Smash invincibility frames. He should only land that to catch landings.



Anyways, lets go to it!

Neutral Game

Lucas PoV
Basically, you have two Options

A. Zone with PK Fire, PK Freeze, and Zair
This is a great options to give a feeling of the match and get in Rosalina's head(They usually do that to me first lololol). Although PK Fire can be Gravitational Pulled, it does not do too much for Rosalina unless you are at the edge. PK Fire is really annoying to punish if she does Gravitational Pull it. She can punish PK Fire((I am going to assume you are wavebouncing PK Fire because if you are not, you are not using Lucas to his full extent, so set that C-Stick to Specials) if you are close to her and she shields it with Dash Attack or Dair. Its pretty much safe if you are out of a certain range. Also PK Fire hits the Luma and it will eventually knock away Luma.

PK Freeze is also a great option to use in this Match Up. Probably one of the few times that PK Freeze is good on stage because it does 20% to Rosalina and Luma or just Luma(Rosa would either spotdodge or Shield it). It is punishable if you are not at a distance. Most Rosalinas to save their Luma would have to jump or hit us before it happens. If she jumps, it puts her in the air, which we can punish if we let go of PK Freeze immediately with Uair, Nair, or PK Fire.

Zair is another great option as it constantly bullies Luma and hurts Rosalina if she doesn't shield it. Zair will lead to a grab or Fair if it hits because of her floatiness and if she doesn't jump immediately. You should be using Zair a lot if Rosalina is close to you(I actually learned this recently)

B. Getting Rid of Luma
Lucas has ways to get rid of Luma. The moves I mentioned, PK Fire, Nair and Dash Attacks are great ways to get rid of it. You can also get rid of Luma by grabbing Rosalina, Down Throwing her, and FSmashing the Luma immediately. Basically, you play as you want to get Rid of Luma ASAP whic then leads to this option

After Luma is Gone....
C. Aggression.
Basically, play aggressive. Nair, Bair, Tilts, etc. Rosalina doesn't get as much reward without Luma. But don't hit her shield unsafely because she can just grab and throw you away. Do this until Luma comes back, and then revert back to option A or B.


Edgeguarding Rosalina:
Lucas can do it a few ways. You will most likely see these attempts in order: Back Air>Down Smash>Down Air>Forward Air>PK Fire>PK Freeze>Nair>PSI Magnet. What you should be more scared of in this order Back Air>PK Fire>Down Smash>Dair>Everything Else. PK Fire is scary because it can kill stupidly early and knocks away your precious Luma. Back Air is scary for obvious reasons and Down Smash can kill you stupidly early if it catches your ledge vulnerability or before you grab the edge. Basically because Lucas's Down Smash after first one comes out every 9 frames and it lasts for 2 frames per hit, you have about a 1/6 or 1/7th chance of getting hit by that, and probably lose the stock if it is the 1st or 2nd hit. Dair is scary because it can catch the ledge and cover options, but its not reliable and could be unsafe.

Being edgeguarded by Rosalina.

Generally, we want to get on the stage ASAP. so we use Rope Snake before she has a chance to edgeguard. We will probabbly be successful majority of the time unless you get the Jab Ledge set up or Dair us as we Rope Snake. Don't try to bother using Gravitational Pull unless we are below the stage with no jump. Just wait at the stage and punish us because we will probably be far out of the stage to use PKT. You will be able to punish it with Dair or FSmash if you just wait at the stage.



I say the MU is even with and without customs. Rosalina doesn't really get an advantage with customs because we can heal from SSB and Warp Star doesn't really benefit much.


And the Last Part..

Stages to go against Rosalina
S: Duck Hunt, Town and City, Lylat Cruise.

_________
Neutral for both:
B: SmashVille, Dreamland 64, Castle Siege, Final Destination, Battlefield

______________
To CP against Lucas
D: Halberd
F: Delfino Plaza

 

[alexthepony]

Okay, sorry about the delay. I said Sunday(Its obviously Sunday).

Anyways, the MU analysis


Basic Information

First of all, do not treat Lucas as another Ness. They are, and play completely different. If you try to play Lucas as Ness, you will fail miserably. Or trying to play Lucas as it is another freebie Ness, prepare to lose.

Like I did with the Ness part, I will happily Link @Neos and @Gadiel_VaStar to overcheck things as they play me constantly and they are amazing Rosalinas <3(And makes me get salty everytime I lose to them).

Boy From Nowhere
+Reliable ways to get rid of Luma in PK Fire, PK Freeze, Dash Attack, Nair, DSmash, FSmash, and Fair unlike his PK Friend.
+PK Freeze is actually usable in this MU and can't be Gravitational Pulled.
+Much harder to edgeguard thanks to the Mr. Snake and his long recovery unlike his PK CounterPart.
+Down Throw Combos work well without Luma interrupting it(Atleast I haven't had Luma interrupt me if I act out fast enough...)
+Down Throw can mean get rid of Luma or Combo Rosa.
+Zair is annoying for Rosa to deal with because it interrupts Luma.
+Can Easily combo Rosalina with Nairs and Dairs.
+Lucas can edgeguard Rosalina pretty well as her recovery is telegraphed to a certain extent(Either grab the edge or overshoot) Both can be punished by Down Smash or Bair and Up Smash respectively.


The Star Fortress
+Dair edgeguards Lucas pretty well assuming Lucas doesn't overshoot past the edge and opts to not use Rope Snake to Recover
---+Even then, Lucas has tons of endlag with PKT2, so that should be a free Up Smash or FSmash or whatever you feel like doing.
+Lucas is kind of floaty as well, and Rosalina can deny landing options. Lucas can really only mix it up with PSI Magnet and Wavebounce PK Fire.
+Although the gimps are not as easy as Ness, Lucas can be edgeguarded with 50/50s.
+Luma makes it extremely difficult for Lucas to approach
+Lucas lacks approach options.
+Lucas lacks kill moves before 110% on you except Smash Attacks, so you should be able to live fairly long if you don't get grabbed
+With Luma, you are immune to the Down Throw Footstool 0% to Death.
+You give no ****s about Lucas's Up Smash invincibility frames. He should only land that to catch landings.



Anyways, lets go to it!

Neutral Game

Lucas PoV
Basically, you have two Options

A. Zone with PK Fire, PK Freeze, and Zair
This is a great options to give a feeling of the match and get in Rosalina's head(They usually do that to me first lololol). Although PK Fire can be Gravitational Pulled, it does not do too much for Rosalina unless you are at the edge. PK Fire is really annoying to punish if she does Gravitational Pull it. She can punish PK Fire((I am going to assume you are wavebouncing PK Fire because if you are not, you are not using Lucas to his full extent, so set that C-Stick to Specials) if you are close to her and she shields it with Dash Attack or Dair. Its pretty much safe if you are out of a certain range. Also PK Fire hits the Luma and it will eventually knock away Luma.

PK Freeze is also a great option to use in this Match Up. Probably one of the few times that PK Freeze is good on stage because it does 20% to Rosalina and Luma or just Luma(Rosa would either spotdodge or Shield it). It is punishable if you are not at a distance. Most Rosalinas to save their Luma would have to jump or hit us before it happens. If she jumps, it puts her in the air, which we can punish if we let go of PK Freeze immediately with Uair, Nair, or PK Fire.

Zair is another great option as it constantly bullies Luma and hurts Rosalina if she doesn't shield it. Zair will lead to a grab or Fair if it hits because of her floatiness and if she doesn't jump immediately. You should be using Zair a lot if Rosalina is close to you(I actually learned this recently)

B. Getting Rid of Luma
Lucas has ways to get rid of Luma. The moves I mentioned, PK Fire, Nair and Dash Attacks are great ways to get rid of it. You can also get rid of Luma by grabbing Rosalina, Down Throwing her, and FSmashing the Luma immediately. Basically, you play as you want to get Rid of Luma ASAP whic then leads to this option

After Luma is Gone....
C. Aggression.
Basically, play aggressive. Nair, Bair, Tilts, etc. Rosalina doesn't get as much reward without Luma. But don't hit her shield unsafely because she can just grab and throw you away. Do this until Luma comes back, and then revert back to option A or B.


Edgeguarding Rosalina:
Lucas can do it a few ways. You will most likely see these attempts in order: Back Air>Down Smash>Down Air>Forward Air>PK Fire>PK Freeze>Nair>PSI Magnet. What you should be more scared of in this order Back Air>PK Fire>Down Smash>Dair>Everything Else. PK Fire is scary because it can kill stupidly early and knocks away your precious Luma. Back Air is scary for obvious reasons and Down Smash can kill you stupidly early if it catches your ledge vulnerability or before you grab the edge. Basically because Lucas's Down Smash after first one comes out every 9 frames and it lasts for 2 frames per hit, you have about a 1/6 or 1/7th chance of getting hit by that, and probably lose the stock if it is the 1st or 2nd hit. Dair is scary because it can catch the ledge and cover options, but its not reliable and could be unsafe.

Being edgeguarded by Rosalina.

Generally, we want to get on the stage ASAP. so we use Rope Snake before she has a chance to edgeguard. We will probabbly be successful majority of the time unless you get the Jab Ledge set up or Dair us as we Rope Snake. Don't try to bother using Gravitational Pull unless we are below the stage with no jump. Just wait at the stage and punish us because we will probably be far out of the stage to use PKT. You will be able to punish it with Dair or FSmash if you just wait at the stage.



I say the MU is even with and without customs. Rosalina doesn't really get an advantage with customs because we can heal from SSB and Warp Star doesn't really benefit much.


And the Last Part..

Stages to go against Rosalina
S: Duck Hunt, Town and City, Lylat Cruise.

_________
Neutral for both:
B: SmashVille, Dreamland 64, Castle Siege, Final Destination, Battlefield

______________
To CP against Lucas
D: Halberd
F: Delfino Plaza

I am having a problem where a lucas at my local keeps spamming pkfire and if i sheild, it pushes luma back and leaves me in a bad position. and if i dont sheild, i get pushed back. basically this and couple other moves keep pushing my luma back and it is difficult to fight him.

 

[Kodystri]

I am having a problem where a lucas at my local keeps spamming pkfire and if i sheild, it pushes luma back and leaves me in a bad position. and if i dont sheild, i get pushed back. basically this and couple other moves keep pushing my luma back and it is difficult to fight him.

PK Fire is so obnoxious to deal with as Rosalina indeed.

 

[alexthepony]

PK Fire is so obnoxious to deal with as Rosalina indeed.

how should I adapt to it?

 

[Kodystri]

Respect it as any other move. You can't really Down B it because I could bait it and punish you with Dash Attack or something else. Just do not let yourself get hit by it.

 

[Kaishin]

PK fire doesn't have any conversions on it regardless of whether or not Rosalina shields it, jumps over it, or even gets hit by it. She does lose a luma though, so try to avoid that last one. If you play patiently there's isn't too much he can do.

How do you deal with projectiles like Samus's? Power shield that **** or jump over it.

 

[alexthepony]

PK fire doesn't have any conversions on it regardless of whether or not Rosalina shields it, jumps over it, or even gets hit by it. She does lose a luma though, so try to avoid that last one. If you play patiently there's isn't too much he can do.

How do you deal with projectiles like Samus's? Power shield that **** or jump over it.

how do I play patient ally

 

[alexthepony]

Okay, sorry about the delay. I said Sunday(Its obviously Sunday).

Anyways, the MU analysis


Basic Information

First of all, do not treat Lucas as another Ness. They are, and play completely different. If you try to play Lucas as Ness, you will fail miserably. Or trying to play Lucas as it is another freebie Ness, prepare to lose.

Like I did with the Ness part, I will happily Link @Neos and @Gadiel_VaStar to overcheck things as they play me constantly and they are amazing Rosalinas <3(And makes me get salty everytime I lose to them).

Boy From Nowhere
+Reliable ways to get rid of Luma in PK Fire, PK Freeze, Dash Attack, Nair, DSmash, FSmash, and Fair unlike his PK Friend.
+PK Freeze is actually usable in this MU and can't be Gravitational Pulled.
+Much harder to edgeguard thanks to the Mr. Snake and his long recovery unlike his PK CounterPart.
+Down Throw Combos work well without Luma interrupting it(Atleast I haven't had Luma interrupt me if I act out fast enough...)
+Down Throw can mean get rid of Luma or Combo Rosa.
+Zair is annoying for Rosa to deal with because it interrupts Luma.
+Can Easily combo Rosalina with Nairs and Dairs.
+Lucas can edgeguard Rosalina pretty well as her recovery is telegraphed to a certain extent(Either grab the edge or overshoot) Both can be punished by Down Smash or Bair and Up Smash respectively.


The Star Fortress
+Dair edgeguards Lucas pretty well assuming Lucas doesn't overshoot past the edge and opts to not use Rope Snake to Recover
---+Even then, Lucas has tons of endlag with PKT2, so that should be a free Up Smash or FSmash or whatever you feel like doing.
+Lucas is kind of floaty as well, and Rosalina can deny landing options. Lucas can really only mix it up with PSI Magnet and Wavebounce PK Fire.
+Although the gimps are not as easy as Ness, Lucas can be edgeguarded with 50/50s.
+Luma makes it extremely difficult for Lucas to approach
+Lucas lacks approach options.
+Lucas lacks kill moves before 110% on you except Smash Attacks, so you should be able to live fairly long if you don't get grabbed
+With Luma, you are immune to the Down Throw Footstool 0% to Death.
+You give no ****s about Lucas's Up Smash invincibility frames. He should only land that to catch landings.



Anyways, lets go to it!

Neutral Game

Lucas PoV
Basically, you have two Options

A. Zone with PK Fire, PK Freeze, and Zair
This is a great options to give a feeling of the match and get in Rosalina's head(They usually do that to me first lololol). Although PK Fire can be Gravitational Pulled, it does not do too much for Rosalina unless you are at the edge. PK Fire is really annoying to punish if she does Gravitational Pull it. She can punish PK Fire((I am going to assume you are wavebouncing PK Fire because if you are not, you are not using Lucas to his full extent, so set that C-Stick to Specials) if you are close to her and she shields it with Dash Attack or Dair. Its pretty much safe if you are out of a certain range. Also PK Fire hits the Luma and it will eventually knock away Luma.

PK Freeze is also a great option to use in this Match Up. Probably one of the few times that PK Freeze is good on stage because it does 20% to Rosalina and Luma or just Luma(Rosa would either spotdodge or Shield it). It is punishable if you are not at a distance. Most Rosalinas to save their Luma would have to jump or hit us before it happens. If she jumps, it puts her in the air, which we can punish if we let go of PK Freeze immediately with Uair, Nair, or PK Fire.

Zair is another great option as it constantly bullies Luma and hurts Rosalina if she doesn't shield it. Zair will lead to a grab or Fair if it hits because of her floatiness and if she doesn't jump immediately. You should be using Zair a lot if Rosalina is close to you(I actually learned this recently)

B. Getting Rid of Luma
Lucas has ways to get rid of Luma. The moves I mentioned, PK Fire, Nair and Dash Attacks are great ways to get rid of it. You can also get rid of Luma by grabbing Rosalina, Down Throwing her, and FSmashing the Luma immediately. Basically, you play as you want to get Rid of Luma ASAP whic then leads to this option

After Luma is Gone....
C. Aggression.
Basically, play aggressive. Nair, Bair, Tilts, etc. Rosalina doesn't get as much reward without Luma. But don't hit her shield unsafely because she can just grab and throw you away. Do this until Luma comes back, and then revert back to option A or B.


Edgeguarding Rosalina:
Lucas can do it a few ways. You will most likely see these attempts in order: Back Air>Down Smash>Down Air>Forward Air>PK Fire>PK Freeze>Nair>PSI Magnet. What you should be more scared of in this order Back Air>PK Fire>Down Smash>Dair>Everything Else. PK Fire is scary because it can kill stupidly early and knocks away your precious Luma. Back Air is scary for obvious reasons and Down Smash can kill you stupidly early if it catches your ledge vulnerability or before you grab the edge. Basically because Lucas's Down Smash after first one comes out every 9 frames and it lasts for 2 frames per hit, you have about a 1/6 or 1/7th chance of getting hit by that, and probably lose the stock if it is the 1st or 2nd hit. Dair is scary because it can catch the ledge and cover options, but its not reliable and could be unsafe.

Being edgeguarded by Rosalina.

Generally, we want to get on the stage ASAP. so we use Rope Snake before she has a chance to edgeguard. We will probabbly be successful majority of the time unless you get the Jab Ledge set up or Dair us as we Rope Snake. Don't try to bother using Gravitational Pull unless we are below the stage with no jump. Just wait at the stage and punish us because we will probably be far out of the stage to use PKT. You will be able to punish it with Dair or FSmash if you just wait at the stage.



I say the MU is even with and without customs. Rosalina doesn't really get an advantage with customs because we can heal from SSB and Warp Star doesn't really benefit much.


And the Last Part..

Stages to go against Rosalina
S: Duck Hunt, Town and City, Lylat Cruise.

_________
Neutral for both:
B: SmashVille, Dreamland 64, Castle Siege, Final Destination, Battlefield

______________
To CP against Lucas
D: Halberd
F: Delfino Plaza

How is Halberd good for lucas, he has more trouble wave bonoucing pk fire and overall zoning in general.
also i think tandc is more nuetrol, why is that also good for lucas.
great guide as well

 

[alexthepony]

i am done with this lucas mu. here is my opinion on it.
First off, I main Rosalina and have been using her since the 3ds version. The lucas vs Rosalina is agreed upon 50 50 by the lucas mains. But I personally don't think so. Lucas's main spacing tools are pk fire zair. and against a defensive lucas,lucas does not have to approach and and can throw out a spaced out zair and a wavebounce(and even a regular) pk fire and it puts luma into tumbbel at around 12 percent. Rosalina is only a good character if she can control the nutral, but she can't, lucas wins the neutral. if Rosalina happens to catch lucas doing a mistake(which can be hard against a defensive lucas) and gets stage control, its hard for her to do what she can to other characters against lucas.lucas can easily avoid her uairs by mixing up what he does with stalling in the air with down b, air dodging pulling away- which is hard to punish as Rosalina because she commits to a certain soace when she jumps because she is floaty, which makes it even harder because lucas is also floaty which makes it even harder for Rosalina to bait the airdodge. you may say well Rosalina can do an empty sh when lucas is in the air to bait whatever he does and then punish his landing, but you can't. lucas can easily wavebounce a pk fire as he lands to stop rosa from hitting him as he lands. and if rosa shields it, great, you put luma into tumble and it is neutral now, and if rosa gets hit by lucas, now lucas has stage control. and if rosa can corner lucas lucas can easily get away. such as pk fire and spaced out zair and roll away and use is annoying things he can do in the air. plus if he zairs or pk fire while in the corner, rosa is in trouble even though she should have stage positioning advantage. now if rosa is trapped in the corner, Lucas's options are endless. he can pk fire to hit luma off the stage, he can go for smashes to kill rosa, he can do whatever he wants. rosa only option to get out of the corner is either to do a risky roll away,jump off stage and regrab ledge, or use an attack of her own(most likely luma jab/dtlit which can be beaten by pkfire and all of Lucas's smashes. Rosalina best option in the corner is to use an attack of her own, because she is too floaty to jump away especially against lucas dangerous aerials(which almost all of them separate luma). she can also run past them which is even riskier than her roll away option. and now offstage- Rosalina can not edge guard lucas, well, the only thing that rosa can do is use the dabuz luma edgeguard or run off the stage and dair to beat lucas tether, but both of these options are too slow to get lucas off his tether. the only thing rosa can do is guess Lucas's ledge get up. which lucas fair back on stage can separate luma. just a thing to know- rosa does not have enough time to run off stage and down b lucas pk fire, if she does she will never get it and get hit by the lucas pk thundering back on stage because Rosalina is too slow to dive down in there and down b it.
now lucas can beat rosa edgeguard every stinkin time, without having to worry about losing stage control if lucas misses Rosalina. I personally think Lucas's best option is to down smash the ledge which can make it impossible for Rosalina to grab it. and if rosa recovers high lucas can do whatever the heck he wants to Rosalina, and also lucas dsmashing the ledge will also separate and kill luma even if rosa survives it.
overall Iucas wins the nutral, lucas is better when he has stage control, lucas is better when off stage, lucas is better when having stage positioning advantage.
I guarantee you people will disagree about what I have to say, but lucas is defiantly a counter pick to Rosalina. and wins is at least 65 to 35.

 

[Dream Cancel]

Here's a recent match I managed to find of this MU. Pink Fresh (Lucas) vs. Frozen (Rosalina)

S@X 131 at Xanadu by VGBootCamp, 1/05/16

Certainly a good look at the MU. A alexthepony Please take a look at this, it should help you get an idea of how to play against a good Lucas.

 

[alexthepony]

Here's a recent match I managed to find of this MU. Pink Fresh (Lucas) vs. Frozen (Rosalina)

S@X 131 at Xanadu by VGBootCamp, 1/05/16

Certainly a good look at the MU. A alexthepony Please take a look at this, it should help you get an idea of how to play against a good Lucas.

all this rosa did was throw out lunar landings to condition the lucas to shield which he would then punish with grab. and the lucas wasn't throwing out wave bounced pk fires the whole match.

 

[Dream Cancel]

all this rosa did was throw out lunar landings to condition the lucas to shield which he would then punish with grab. and the lucas wasn't throwing out wave bounced pk fires the whole match.

All this Rosa did was win.

Wavebounced PK Fires are easily beaten by shielding, crouching, or Gravitational Pull. They are not his safest spacing tool and if he doesn't hit Rosa or Luma with it, he loses some stage control since it pushes him back. That's not something he wants to do against Rosa, who has excellent stage control when she has it. They are a good tool yes, but nothing Rosa can't handle.

Rosa has the tools to bully Lucas, since his Lucas's spacing tools don't have enough presence in the MU, even though they can still be effective with good timing. In close quarters, even though Lucas has numerous good options like Jab, Nair, and a reasonably good Grab game, it's just another day in the office for Rosa. Bread and Butter play like Lunar Landings, Grab mix-ups, and Luma control works on Lucas just as well as any other character.

 

[alexthepony]

All this Rosa did was win.

Wavebounced PK Fires are easily beaten by shielding, crouching, or Gravitational Pull. They are not his safest spacing tool and if he doesn't hit Rosa or Luma with it, he loses some stage control since it pushes him back. That's not something he wants to do against Rosa, who has excellent stage control when she has it. They are a good tool yes, but nothing Rosa can't handle.

Rosa has the tools to bully Lucas, since his Lucas's spacing tools don't have enough presence in the MU, even though they can still be effective with good timing. In close quarters, even though Lucas has numerous good options like Jab, Nair, and a reasonably good Grab game, it's just another day in the office for Rosa. Bread and Butter play like Lunar Landings, Grab mix-ups, and Luma control works on Lucas just as well as any other character.

You are forgetting ok fire seperates luma even when Ross shields

 

[Dream Cancel]

You are forgetting ok fire seperates luma even when Ross shields

Dodge it? Keep your shield healthy? Maintain stage control so if Luma is hit he doesn't fly off-stage? Even if Luma dies, you can always stall Lucas and wait for a brand new Luma.

Frankly, I just don't see how he is that much of a problem if both players are of equal skill level.

Edit:

i am done with this lucas mu. here is my opinion on it.
snip-
I guarantee you people will disagree about what I have to say, but lucas is defiantly a counter pick to Rosalina. and wins is at least 65 to 35.

Why do you think people will disagree? And if Lucas is that strong of a counter-pick, then why haven't professional players, and the community at large, accepted this?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lucas is being analyzed again for this week. If you have anything to contribute for the match-up, especially in regards to the newest software update, this is the place to do it.

 

[PKBeam]

1.1.4? Nair does double % and grabs are faster.
what this means is Lucas can kill a little faster and with a little less risk.
i'm pretty sure the matchup is even (maybe +1 Rosa), although rosalina is not a MU i have a lot of experience in (as no-one in sydney plays her...).

 

[BornABrawler]

Bit late to this discussion, but I have mixed feelings about this matchup. So as a Lucas, Rosa can be a scary adversary. With the spacing and power of luma Lucas is pretty much forced to play defensively until the star is gone. Luckily, PK Fire is an invaluable asset to Lucas as it can hit luma even if Rosa is shielding on top of him. The knockback isn't excellent, but can quickly rack up damage that can eventually kill. As soon as luma is gone, Lucas has much more control of the matchup as he doesn't need to be as carful with grabs and can be fairly aggressive without getting super punished. So Rosa without luma is the ideal situation for Lucas. (The same can be said for most characters) Rosa still can keep control over the matchup though, as her spacing moves can keep an over-aggressive Lucas out till luma comes back. Lucas's best tools for spacing against Rosa is PK Fire and z-air. (This can be applied to other characters, too)

Lucas's smash attacks can also be a bit risky to use, as all but f-smash has decent ending lag. Rosa has decently spaced smashes, so trying to approach her if she is smash-happy can be a bit risky. And because Lucas is not very heavy Rosa can get decent kills with her smashes, especially if Luma connects. Getting throw-kill combos can be a bit harder to get against Rosa because she is deceivingly light and can escape some before he can reach her. Though this also means up-throw has a earlier kill percent because of her weight.

For recovery Lucas has a tether, Rosa's down-air can catch him on the way up. Rosa can of course also get an early KO if she catches Lucas using up-b offstage and absorb it with down-b. Though this can somewhat be avoided as Lucas doesn't require to be as close to the ledge as Ness to recover, so a Rosa would have to commit far offstage to absorb it or intercept his recovery. Lucas has decent off-stage kill options too however, as two of his aerials are spikes. Combined with the fact that Rosa's up-b has no hitbox, Lucas with timing can get great spikes and kills at decent percents. Onstage PK Thunder can also stage spike a Rosa and net a kill if the player doesn't have good reaction time or is either at high percent.

So would I say the matchup is in Lucas's favor? Possibly, but only by a slight amount. Rosalina still has enough tools to deal with Lucas as well as net early kills with somewhat ease. Personally I think this matchup is 50:50, but it also depends on how the players approach each character. A campy Lucas might be a pain for Rosa - but on the other hand an aggressive Lucas can suffer some great punishes from Rosalina. But from examining each characters tools and kill-options only, the matchup is pretty even if not weighted a bit by either side. Thanks for reading, and I hope you have a fantastic day!

 

[Tizio Random]

This is one of the match-ups I can confidently give an opinion about as my Smash partner mains Lucas. I'll start this is an even match-up (50:50).
Rosalina has some incredibly good tools against Lucas such as GP and Luma in general that make her throwing out hitboxes safer. However Lucas has one of the best tools against Rosalina spacing game: zair. The mix of PK Fire + zair makes playing against Lucas a constant 50/50: either you avoid you or Luma being PK fire'd or you get a Rope Snake into your face.
Neutral game and advantage state is more or less even, both characters try to break through and gets reward for doing that. Lucas has PK Fire to solve the "Luma problem" and a tether grab that brings good combos while Rosa makes landing hard as usual, her usmash is a good tool against the PSI boy.
Recovery wise, Lucas isn't murdered like Ness but if Rosa gets him with a dair during the tether recovery is probably dead but it's not guaranteed. Rosa, on the other hand, hates PK Freeze during recoveries (also PK Freeze can't be GP'd), and dsmash at the ledge when timed right could be a pain.

 

[alexthepony]

 

[PKBeam]

nice drawing...?