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3rd Party "Legendaries" Thread

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Fire Emblemier

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After viewing M&SG's thread list thread for a while, I notice their isn't a thread on the topic of 3rd parties in general, specifically ones that warrant a spot on the roster. As you know there are 2 really big points of what makes a 3rd party character able to compete for a spot in Smash. The first being that the character must have a title on a Nintendo console. Which rules out many exclusives to other consoles and PC. The second, being what this thread is named after, the character must have a "legendary" status to the gaming community.

So what makes a character "legendary"?
Quite a few things actually from revolutionizing the genre of games they come from, or even being one of the first video game characters out there. They don't all have to apply for a character to be legendary, just 1 major reason is needed, if it had to be all, we'd be at slim pickings for 3rd parties.

Hey, what makes Snake so "legendary" for him to be in Smash Bros.?
Good question, as I see a lot of people asking this, guessing Snake might not return because he doesn't fit the criteria. Yet, he actually does. Even though, he seems like one of those dime a dozen modern video game protagonist, the truth is Snake revolutionized and arguably even started his genre of gaming, Stealth. Just like how Mega Man, Sonic, and even a non-3rd party, Mario revolutionized the 2D platforming genre at the time.

So what character(s) would be a good for being a "legendary" status?
Try to find a character that's beloved by the gaming community. (making sure they have a title on a Nintendo console) See if they have anything that could make 'em a potential "legendary" such as revolutionizing the genre they come from, or even just holding the hearts of gamers for decades. If you find one you feel is a "legendary" make sure to find out what other people of the community think about this character, with the all the info found, you lead to presume their "legendary".

Since your telling us, all this stuff, who do you think has the potential of being legendary?
Sure, I'll tell ya, but keep in mind this isn't supposed to be a "shoo-in" 3rd party list, just a list of possible contenders using the criteria. Also there may be many I have left out, this is merely just a example though, keep that in mind.

-Banjo Kazooie (this one while unlikely still has the "legendary" that will make us remember them till the end of time)
-PacMan (One of the first video game characters ever, no wonder people always support this yellow thing)
-Black Mage/Slime/most other Square classic turn-based jrpg characters (Square Enix has many RPG's that revolutionized and arguably even started the RPG genre)
-Crash Bandicoot (One of the first original IPs for a 3D platformer.)
-Bomberman (Beloved Video Game character with many games on Nintendo consoles.)
-Rayman

-Even more to come sooner or later.

Be sure to give suggestions on what I should add on to make this even better. Also feel free to comment your opinion on this topic. Also if there's already a thread similar to this... well I feel like I wasted all this time and effort for nothing.
 
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FalKoopa

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Well, I'd suggest Bomberman. He has been dead since Konami bought Hudson, but he used to be legendary once. (Kinda like Banjo-Kazooie)
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Interesting thread!

I'll probably start something bad, but is the legendary "trait" mandatory?

Actually, we only had legendary guests, for sure. Sonic, Snake and Megaman are all iconic faces of gaming. But should we not consider "lesser" franchise, even if they are important to Nintendo?

Two exemples: For Nintendo, Professor Layton is a third party franchise that is really important to the DS and 3DS, often used as advertisement for the console. But Layton is not a legendary character, compared to the guest we have.
Another exemple: SoulCalibur 5 and his guest, Ezio Auditore. The character is well known, and fits very well in the game, but I don't consider legendary (for one of the reasons you mention, the Assassin's Creed franchise began in 2007, so he can't be beloved for decades).

Obviously, I don't mean to start considering characters like Jack from Madworld (great game, but not something really important in the end).
 

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I know that this is a terrifying question and that I may be criticized for asking it...

But couldn't Mickey Mouse be said to fit those criteria?
 

Erotic&Heretic

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I know that this is a terrifying question and that I may be criticized for asking it...

But couldn't Mickey Mouse be said to fit those criteria?
Actually, it is :troll:

But Ducktales is a beloved video game, so I'll pick Scrooge McDuck instead.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Well, I'd suggest Bomberman. He has been dead since Konami bought Hudson, but he used to be legendary once. (Kinda like Banjo-Kazooie)
I'll add him, after this post
Interesting thread!

I'll probably start something bad, but is the legendary "trait" mandatory?

Actually, we only had legendary guests, for sure. Sonic, Snake and Megaman are all iconic faces of gaming. But should we not consider "lesser" franchise, even if they are important to Nintendo?

Two exemples: For Nintendo, Professor Layton is a third party franchise that is really important to the DS and 3DS, often used as advertisement for the console. But Layton is not a legendary character, compared to the guest we have.
Another exemple: SoulCalibur 5 and his guest, Ezio Auditore. The character is well known, and fits very well in the game, but I don't consider legendary (for one of the reasons you mention, the Assassin's Creed franchise began in 2007, so he can't be beloved for decades).

Obviously, I don't mean to start considering characters like Jack from Madworld (great game, but not something really important in the end).
You bring up a good point, I wouldn't put it as the mandatory trait for all characters, but it certainly helps. Yet, for your Soul Calibur example, it's guest characters change each game from having Link in SCII and Star Wars in SCIV, so it would be rather hard to find different legendaries every game that fits SC's style. Also this legendary point is mostly meant in Smash Bros. context, as Sakurai stated he looks for "Legendary" characters. So other franchises might differ when choosing which 3rd party to have in their game.

I know that this is a terrifying question and that I may be criticized for asking it...

But couldn't Mickey Mouse be said to fit those criteria?
I don't think so, since he didn't originate in a video game.

Also, did Scrooge McDuck appear as a video game character or on television first, let me google this real quick. :awesome:
So do first parties have to be legendary too, or do third parties just need that extra boost.
Nope, as we already have obscure characters in Smash like MG&W and R.O.B.
 

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Is his game legendary?
Semi. Well, Epic Mickey sold from 2-3 million, so that's at least decently popular. And then you have to take into account a huge thing in his favor; Kingdom Hearts. He's at least appeared in enough of those video games (which are legendary) to count for something.

I don't think so, since he didn't originate in a video game.
I don't believe Sakurai ever stated that characters had to originate from video games. Source?
 

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FireEmblemier: yes, it's true that adding guest in SSB and SC is different, SC changing each episodes.

But about the character itself, Ezio, what to you think? There's also Kratos on the handled game.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Semi. Well, Epic Mickey sold from 2-3 million, so that's at least decently popular. And then you have to take into account a huge thing in his favor; Kingdom Hearts. He's at least appeared in enough of those video games (which are legendary) to count for something.


I don't believe Sakurai ever stated that characters had to originate from video games. Source?
I've searched for a little while, and I couldn't find a source, but if someone else happens to find one that will be helpful. Anyways, it was just an assumption, if we do happen to get a character like Scrooge McDuck, I would be happy, but I'm not expecting it.
FireEmblemier: yes, it's true that adding guest in SSB and SC is different, SC changing each episodes.

But about the character itself, Ezio, what to you think? There's also Kratos on the handled game.
If the character really fits in, maybe... Yet, Sakurai makes sure his choices would be the most popular or "legendary", so I'm not 100% positive.
 

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Nice thread!

I am unsure about the black mage/slime though wouldn't most legendary characters have to be the main playable character/lead protagonist?
 

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I've searched for a little while, and I couldn't find a source, but if someone else happens to find one that will be helpful. Anyways, it was just an assumption, if we do happen to get a character like Scrooge McDuck, I would be happy, but I'm not expecting it.
Nor am I expecting it, but Disney has been one of the few third party companies to stick around with the Wii U (with Disney Infinity). I would not be as surprised as some if Mickey was included. I mean, Scrooge is too far. That's like expecting Klonoa (Namco character not named Pac-Man). But Mickey? The Mickey Mouse? Mascot of Disney studios? Is it really that far-fetched?
 

Fire Emblemier

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Nice thread!

I am unsure about the black mage/slime though wouldn't most legendary characters have to be the main playable character/lead protagonist?
Well, FFI never had a true Protagonist just classes the most iconic being Black Mage. Slime is the mascot of the Dragon Quest series like Pikachu is to Pokemon. These 2 also appeared in Mario Sports Mix, plus Fortune had a lot of DQ characters including Slime. Plus, that's why I put other characters Square has.
 

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Well there have been sayings from Iwata that Nintendo was going to collaborating with Disney, so there's that. But it doesn't really benefit Mickey's chances anyway since it's probably too late.
 

Fire Emblemier

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With the debate about Disney Characters, I must ask, how many of you want to see it added to possible contenders? I'm indifferent for whether it should be added or not, just need your opinions.
 

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Well there have been sayings from Iwata that Nintendo was going to collaborating with Disney, so there's that. But it doesn't really benefit Mickey's chances anyway since it's probably too late.
Didn't call out Disney by name. He simply implied that their IPs were going to be used in more stuff soon, and people (including myself) speculate that Disney and Nintendo might be working together on a movie, TV series, or the like.
 

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With the debate about Disney Characters, I must ask, how many of you want to see it added to possible contenders? I'm indifferent for whether it should be added or not, just need your opinions.
I would add Mickey, but not Scrooge McDuck.

EDIT: Oh, derp. I double posted. Sorry about that.
 

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Ryu : Street Fighter 2 revolutionized fighting games.

Or go the other way…

Sub Zero : Mortal Kombat revolutionized fighting games.

----

Bub and Bob. From Bubble Bobble. Kinda like a more projectile based ice climber?

---

A Battletoad. Or a Double Dragon. Take your pick. I feel the toads represent smash better, and the move set is easier (Kiss my fist, big bad boot, drill hand, stone fist, buzz saw kick, goat ram)

---

Black Mage is probably a better representative for Final Fantasy and Square…. but I really really really want Crono. You know, cause there just aren't enough sword users. Or if you've made a deal with Square make fanboys heads explode and make Geno.

---

Mickey's totally legendary. Epic Mickey. Castle of Illusion. Mickey Mouscapades. Kingdom Hearts' DS entries. Aaaaand if you've made a deal with Disney why not throw in…..

Dash Rendar! From Shadows of the Empire! Representing Star Wars while not being a game breaking jedi and being a great homage to the N64. Wompa Stompaa!

---
 

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Ryu : Street Fighter 2 revolutionized fighting games.

Or go the other way…

Sub Zero : Mortal Kombat revolutionized fighting games.

I don't think we should consider fighting game characters, as Sakurai already said that we're not getting any.

----

Bub and Bob. From Bubble Bobble. Kinda like a more projectile based ice climber?

Who? Not legendary, I assume, since I don't know them.

---

A Battletoad. Or a Double Dragon. Take your pick. I feel the toads represent smash better, and the move set is easier (Kiss my fist, big bad boot, drill hand, stone fist, buzz saw kick, goat ram)

I'd call Battletoads borderline...if it wasn't for their being owned by Rare, and thus, Microsoft now. Sorry.

---

Black Mage is probably a better representative for Final Fantasy and Square…. but I really really really want Crono. You know, cause there just aren't enough sword users. Or if you've made a deal with Square make fanboys heads explode and make Geno.

Black Mage is already up there, Chrono's borderline, no Geno.

---

Mickey's totally legendary. Epic Mickey. Castle of Illusion. Mickey Mouscapades. Kingdom Hearts' DS entries. Aaaaand if you've made a deal with Disney why not throw in…..

Dash Rendar! From Shadows of the Empire! Representing Star Wars while not being a game breaking jedi and being a great homage to the N64. Wompa Stompaa!

Who? Not legendary, I assume, as I've never heard of it.

---
Responses in red.
 

Freduardo

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Responses in red.
Not legendary cause I've never heard of them means we'd never have Pit, or the supreme revival of Uprising that followed. (a shame cause I loved Kid Icarus as a kid only cause of Captain N) The fact that you must have never played a video game before the year 2000 aside. Bub and Bob are totally legendary, Bubble Bobble and Bust A Move. They were essentially the Neo-Geo mascots.

And I'm going to give old american developers a further push since Hudson is doing nothing anymore.

I want Bonk.

And Some Belmont. Doesn't even need to be Simon. You want to give me one of the Castlevania ones from the DS games? Cool.
 

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Bub and Bob are these guys, right?

Yea, there famous enough, to just make it past the Legendary border
 

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With the debate about Disney Characters, I must ask, how many of you want to see it added to possible contenders? I'm indifferent for whether it should be added or not, just need your opinions.
No I don't see the Disney characters. Maybe Sora.
 

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Not legendary cause I've never heard of them means we'd never have Pit, or the supreme revival of Uprising that followed. (a shame cause I loved Kid Icarus as a kid only cause of Captain N) The fact that you must have never played a video game before the year 2000 aside. Bub and Bob are totally legendary, Bubble Bobble and Bust A Move. They were essentially the Neo-Geo mascots.

And I'm going to give old american developers a further push since Hudson is doing nothing anymore.

I want Bonk.

And Some Belmont. Doesn't even need to be Simon. You want to give me one of the Castlevania ones from the DS games? Cool.
Sakurai specifically stated that third parties must be "legendary". Sorry, retro clause doesn't apply here.

Looked em up. (And yes, I have played more than a few games from before the 2000s. Do you not see that I love Pac-Man?) I quote from wikipedia:
"The Taito Corporation (株式会社タイトー kabushikigaisha taitō?) is a Japanese publisher of video game software and arcade hardware wholly owned by publisher Square Enix. Taito has their headquarters in the Shinjuku Bunka Quint Building in Yoyogi, Shibuya, Tokyo,[1] sharing the facility with its parent company.[2][3]

Taito is best known for producing hit arcade games, such as Space Invaders and Bubble Bobble. They have produced arcade games all around the world, while also importing and distributing American coin-op video games in Japan. Taito also owns several arcades in Japan known as Taito Stations."
Hi.
 

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Square bought Taito off Neo-Geo? Explains why I haven't seen bust a move at an arcade in over a decade. Or the fact I haven't seen a neo-geo arcade cabinet in over a decade. Or an arcade cabinet in over a decade. (hyperbole) Damn kids make me miss the 80s. For all the few years of it I was alive. But what game are they best known for? That's right, space invaders. But there's no good character from that (though I'd love to play that as a stage) and Bubble Bobble was number two on that list. As legendary as space invaders is pretty damn legendary.

And Dash Rendar isn't quite legendary, but he's Nintendo important, like Professor Layton. And would be a less offensive Star Wars representative than one of the movie roles (and Star Wars games are legendary, specifically Super Star Wars trilogy on the SNES and Shadows of the Empire on the N64 and Rogue Squadron trilogy), cause using a main character from that would be HUUUUUGE character rights moneys, so get someone who was a launch title on a lovely revolutionary, and dareIsay, LEGENDARY, system. As a little side note in a Mickey character bundle, he'd do fine. But okay, you want a really legendary star wars character to be, then be that punk Starkiller from the Force Unleashed. Or compromise, Wedge Antilles from the Rogue Squadron trilogy (also some random movies no one ever saw. Ever Called 'Space Wars' or 'Star Battles'. I don't remember) and he can represent that franchise and games, though the downside is yet ANOTHER space pilot with few moves outside of space piloting.

Spyro counts as legendary I guess. Lord knows they made enough money of Skylanders.

Aand and and DIGDUG! Cause I want to inflate Kirby till he pops.
 

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Square bought Taito off Neo-Geo? Explains why I haven't seen bust a move at an arcade in over a decade. Or the fact I haven't seen a neo-geo arcade cabinet in over a decade. Or an arcade cabinet in over a decade. (hyperbole) Damn kids make me miss the 80s. For all the few years of it I was alive. But what game are they best known for? That's right, space invaders. But there's no good character from that (though I'd love to play that as a stage) and Bubble Bobble was number two on that list. As legendary as space invaders is pretty damn legendary.

I know it's legendary now, but it's about as likely as Bomberman now. That said, I have no objections to them being on the list.

And Dash Rendar isn't quite legendary, but he's Nintendo important, like Professor Layton. And would be a less offensive Star Wars representative than one of the movie roles (and Star Wars games are legendary, specifically Super Star Wars trilogy on the SNES and Shadows of the Empire on the N64 and Rogue Squadron trilogy), cause using a main character from that would be HUUUUUGE character rights moneys, so get someone who was a launch title on a lovely revolutionary, and dareIsay, LEGENDARY, system. As a little side note in a Mickey character bundle, he'd do fine. But okay, you want a really legendary star wars character to be, then be that punk Starkiller from the Force Unleashed. Or compromise, Wedge Antilles from the Rogue Squadron trilogy (also some random movies no one ever saw. Ever Called 'Space Wars' or 'Star Battles'. I don't remember) and he can represent that franchise and games, though the downside is yet ANOTHER space pilot with few moves outside of space piloting.

Note the name of this thread, though. 3rd Party Legendaries. There's a reason Layton's not on there already.

Spyro counts as legendary I guess. Lord knows they made enough money of Skylanders.

I actually second this. Spyro could be considered a legendary character, even if he's highly unlikely.

Aand and and DIGDUG! Cause I want to inflate Kirby till he pops.

As much as I love Dig-Dug, it's Namco-owned, and the only Namco-Bandai character that we can really call legendary is Pac-Man. It's the same reason I don't think Scrooge should be added to the list. He's decently well known, but he pales in comparison to Mickey Mouse.
Responses in red.

Oh, and @ Fire Emblemier Fire Emblemier , if you didn't see, we'd like to have Spyro added to the list.
 

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Personally from all the 3rd party characters, Professor Layton is my favourite to be included in ssb.

Actually Professor Layton sales and the impact they have in Nintendo systems is something that can not be ignored easily, considering that also we are talking of a serie that is new and the others are not. For example if we divide the number of sales for the number of years of existance of the franchise we can see that Professor Layton outclasses some of the mentioned. Professor Layton in the eyes of many is never going to be considered "legendary" because he is too recent and because of the genre of his games.

Personally i do think that ssb must remain to be an all star of Nintendo and the only 3rd party characters necessary are those who caused an impact in Nintendo systems.
Megaman is a good example.
 

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Personally from all the 3rd party characters, Professor Layton is my favourite to be included in ssb.

Actually Professor Layton sales and the impact they have in Nintendo systems is something that can not be ignored easily, considering that also we are talking of a serie that is new and the others are not. For example if we divide the number of sales for the number of years of existance of the franchise we can see that Professor Layton outclasses some of the mentioned. Professor Layton in the eyes of many is never going to be considered "legendary" because he is too recent and because of the genre of his games.
Such as?
 

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Legendary 3rd Parties?

Phoenix Wright (The games are a staple of why the DS is so popular)
Prof. Layton (Same as above)
Geno (The fact that this character, who's made one appearance in a SNES game, STILL has an incredibly large fanbase for his return is impressive. And everybody knows him as well, so I think he's legendary.
 

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if you ask for what franchises are outclassed by Professor Layton when we divide the number of Sales for the number of years, Metal Gear, practically all of the list in the main post with the exception of Square Enix games and Spyro.
 

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Legendary 3rd Parties?

Phoenix Wright (The games are a staple of why the DS is so popular)
Prof. Layton (Same as above)
Geno (The fact that this character, who's made one appearance in a SNES game, STILL has an incredibly large fanbase for his return is impressive. And everybody knows him as well, so I think he's legendary.
Phoenix and Layton maybe. I'd rank them a tier under "legendary", in the "iconic" category. But Geno is pretty obscure compared to most. How many of today's casual Nintendo fans would be able to recognize Geno? Really.
if you ask for what franchises are outclassed by Professor Layton when we divide the number of Sales for the number of years, Metal Gear, practically all of the list in the main post with the exception of Square Enix games and Spyro.
Interesting, but I'm not sure how sound that method is to determine legendary status.
 

Raetah

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Interesting, but I'm not sure how sound that method is to determine legendary status.
Thay just proof that Professor Layton caused a considerable impact in Nintendo System, what makes Banjo-Kazooie legendary?
 

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Thay just proof that Professor Layton caused a considerable impact in Nintendo System, what makes Banjo-Kazooie legendary?
Being notorious for originally being a popular Nintendo character before Rare being bought out by Microsoft. Has no hope to be in smash, but is still badly wanted.
 

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Phoenix and Layton maybe. I'd rank them a tier under "legendary", in the "iconic" category. But Geno is pretty obscure compared to most. How many of today's casual Nintendo fans would be able to recognize Geno? Really.

Interesting, but I'm not sure how sound that method is to determine legendary status.
I'm fairly certain that a lot more people would recognize Geno than Bub or Bob. Maybe not the casuals, but for those who grew up in the SNES era, and even in the prediction eras of Melee and Brawl, Geno was a pretty well-known name.
 
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