Separating Transforming Characters?

[Guybrush20X6]

There's been talk of technical limitations on the 3DS and Brawl's long loading times did no favor to the combined Shiek/Zelda playstyle. Could it be possible that characters with multiple movesets and models be separated?

*Samus and Zamus as different slots with Zero laser not destroying the suit and Samus getting a new FS.
*Pokemon Trainer chosing Squirtle, Ivysaur or Charizard and sticking with them the whole match? (New B down and no stamina mechanic)
*Zelda and Sheik separate?

What do you think?

 

[BluePikmin11]

There's been talk of technical limitations on the 3DS and Brawl's long loading times did no favor to the combined Shiek/Zelda playstyle. Could it be possible that characters with multiple movesets and models be separated?

*Samus and Zamus as different slots with Zero laser not destroying the suit and Samus getting a new FS.
*Pokemon Trainer chosing Squirtle, Ivysaur or Charizard and sticking with them the whole match? (New B down and no stamina mechanic)
*Zelda and Sheik separate?

What do you think?

But that's how it works. Pokemon Trainer wouldn't be Pokemon trainer at all if his Pokemon were on seperate slots.
It's videogame commonsense.

 

[TheTuninator]

Samus and ZSS being separated would be a blessed mercy. I don't think I have met a single player of either who enjoys being shackled to a completely different character by a Final Smash.

Gameplay-wise, there's very little reason to keep them together, but I suspect that ZSS will remain a transformation (and vice versa) based on a desire to remain true to Metroid gameplay.

 

[LaniusShrike]

It would be a blessing to every single tag-teamed character to be separated and rebalanced for solo-play. I believe they should be separated regardless of 3DS technical limitations... I mean, it's not like the Wii made the transformations particularly smooth either.

Also, for the Pokemon Trainer being separated, he wouldn't be picking a single pokemon and sticking with it... he'd be removed and turned into Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard. People already count them as three characters, they might as well appear as such.

 

[Speculator]

Not a good idea in my opinion. The transformations are part of what makes the character unique. That's an important consideration.

 

[Starcutter]

maybe the transformation characters are the ones getting cut.

 

[LaniusShrike]

maybe the transformation characters are the ones getting cut.

And by that you mean Sheik, P.Trainer, and ZS Samus? Because Zelda and Samus themselves are certainly not being cut.

While I agree that the transformations potentially make characters more unique, that isn't necessarily a good thing. As with genetics, most noticeable mutations are harmful, and it's hard to make a strange character "gimmick" feel good. Nobody likes being forced to play a new character after a final smash, nobody likes being prodded to switch to another character due to an awkward stamina system, and Zelda/Sheik have never been balanced against each other appropriately.

Different as it is, it's a failed mechanic. Let it die gracefully.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Not the best idea, seeing as the Pokemon Trainer has to be able to switch Pokemon.

 

[mimgrim]

It might not be a good idea but it might end up happening, for the 3DS version at least. Its this limitation of the 3DS that people keep mixing up with the roster size problem, the 3DS can hold all of Brawl (Like 7.something GBs, most of that being due to SSE and poor crompresion (or something like that, I forget the technical term)) and they will probably hand the compression better in the 3DS version. However Sakurai did say characters like the Ice climbers were giving the 3DS trouble due to it's limitations, and note that it is not limitations on space for character roster, so it could end up being that for the 3DS version the character thatr are transformations and doubled will have there own character slots instead, technically it could be considered the same roster since, if I'm not mistakent, Sakurai considers the tranformation charatcers as their own characters and ICs as 2 I think. So yea it's possible at least, but there is still plenty of time for them to figure out and solve this to.

 

[DMurr]

Here's the direct quote:

Kotaku: Should people expect returning characters, should they expect most of their favorites from Brawl to come back?

Sakurai: The reality of the situation unfortunately is that there are certain limitations on the 3DS, so we’re forced into a situation where we may need to reduce some characters to a certain degree, but we’re really working hard to include as many characters as possible.

This isn't really very specific at all. Who knows what he's talking about? When I first read it, I thought he meant that he was going to change the way some characters played to make it more simple to program them, and Ice Climbers came to mind first. Then by reduce, I took it to mean that they were perhaps going to make Zelda just be Zelda and "reduced" to a single character in the slot without Sheik. I'm not sure.

Honestly, I just hope that they bring back Zero Suit Samus. They could put it on one slot on the character selection like Zelda/Sheik but not be able to transform mid-match. The final smash switch back and forth is horrendous for playing with friends when they want to play with smash balls. I suck as regular Samus.

 

[TheTuninator]

The best solution is simply for Sakurai & Co. to bite the bullet and sacrifice fidelity to Metroid gameplay for the sake of fun and balanced gameplay in Smash. ZSS and Samus cannot have a ready transformation mechanic as long as they have actual Down-Bs, and as both characters' down-Bs are great fun, the simplest solution is just to separate them outright.

It'd be one thing if each Final Smash was so crushingly powerful as to warrant a penalty after using it, but the Zero Laser isn't even that strong and ZSS's Final Smash is a total joke.

Having a dual character like Zelda and Sheik works great, as a player can simply pick one character and stick with them if he does not want to learn both, but forcing transformation is just awful. I play ZSS because she is a fast character with great aerials who can get up in people's faces with good reach. Samus is none of these things. Equally, Samus players who like a range-heavy moveset must find themselves incredibly frustrated coming to ZSS. It's just not fun. I like playing with Final Smashes, but when you have to deliberately not take the Smash Ball or die holding it in order to continue playing as your character, there is a problem.

Oh, and for the love of god, Sakurai, if Samus must transform, please make it impossible to gimp her following her transformation. Couldn't even tell you the amount of times my friends have killed me while I am helpless from transforming. That goes for PT too.

 

[FalKoopa]

I don't think Transforming characters should be separated, because that is what sets them apart from the rest.

A possible solution is to transform via a taunt (Like Samus/ZSS). This will free up a special move for each character.

Also, inb4 Impa propaganda.

 

[IsmaR]

I wouldn't mind one way or the other. I love all transforming characters about equally.

Fun fact: I love both transitioning from both formes of Samus, and play both the same way. I do wish Power Suit Samus was a stronger FS, though.

 

[Hong]

Not a good idea in my opinion. The transformations are part of what makes the character unique. That's an important consideration.

I don't think Transforming characters should be separated, because that is what sets them apart from the rest.

A possible solution is to transform via a taunt (Like Samus/ZSS). This will free up a special move for each character.

Also, inb4 Impa propaganda.

A unique mechanic does not make it good gameplay.

The game punishes you for having low stamina, instead of rewarding you with having high stamina. It would be one thing if the Pokémon were awesome characters despite being shafted a special move, but they were barely on par in their basic form. The transformations add nothing pleasant to the game. Even looking at our Hylian example, Sheik players only ever switched to Zelda if transforming could give her a chance of recovery with Farore's Wind superior range, as a desperation tactic on the last stock.

Again, we must emphasize that just because something is unique, it does not make it good.

 

[FalKoopa]

Now, now. Namco helping with the balance this time. I'm sure they can do it properly.

 

[peeup]

If Zelda and Shiek are more closely balanced, and also cover for each other's weaknesses better, then that transformation gimmick will be worth it.

If the Pokemon in PT can somehow combo with each other by switching faster, or if there is some more incentive to switch, then that transformation gimmick will be worth it.

Samus/ZSS transformation gimmick is fine as is, IMO. I don't play with final smashes very often, but I'm pretty sure Zero Laser is like one of the best (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, if you're playing with final smashes, that means that you're playing for fun, and having a forced switch after a powerful attack is pretty neat for a casual game.

 

[Hong]

Now, now. Namco helping with the balance this time. I'm sure they can do it properly.

The only Namco fighter I can think of is Tira from Soul Calibur V, and even with her and all the balancing that went into, players grossly favour one of her moods over the other. Of course I am not the most well versed about Namco fighters so I might have missed something, but I am certainly not optimistic about the chances of this working out.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Separate Sheik you said?

Spoiler

 

[FalKoopa]

Separate Sheik you said?

Spoiler

I'm always good at predicting.

Also, inb4 Impa propaganda.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Separate Sheik will never happen.

 

[Hong]

Depends.

Sheik does not have to come back as Sheik, per se. That is to say, her fighting style and character qualities could manifest as a new character. This allows Nintendo to better represent a wider range of franchises, especailly if someone else could do everything Sheik could or more. From there, Zelda could have a new move (believe me, she needs it), and people who liked Sheik just for her fighting style will probably have something more to work with.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Maybe when you switch, you should have a box pop up with his Pokemon like in the Pokemon name.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I liked the mechanic of coming back as a different pokemon when defeated but the stamina mechanic was a real put me down.

 

[Knight Dude]

I don't see Zelda/Sheik's moveset being changed honestly. She was the first character that used the whole transformation thing, no reason to take the main gimmick from the character. Samus and Zero Suit Samus are kinda separated as is, all that really needs to happen is give Zero Suit Samus her own character slot. And give them Final Smashes that won't force the transformation. Not sure what will happen with the Pokemon trainer though. They could separate them if need be, but that might not be the case.

 

[grizby2]

I want someone to PROVE that the 3ds cant handle transforming characters. theres gotta be someone out there with a clear answer...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

6 months later and we still have no confirmation of any transforming character. Rosalina has her Lumas so maybe they're just holding the alt forms back.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Do we even need canon for this to happen?

 

[IsmaR]

6 months later and we still have no confirmation of any transforming character. Rosalina has her Lumas so maybe they're just holding the alt forms back.

While that may be true, it's not exactly good reasoning for bumping this.