3.5 problems

[AntSSB]

is anyone else having trouble wavedashing out of Magnet when the magnet connects. I can't seem to do it in 3.5

 

[MrAzureKun]

I also seem to not be able to wavedash out of a connected magnet.
This is a little concerning.

 

[AntSSB]

I know, now I can't do a lot of my combos. My boy lucas went from a solid 9 to like a 4

 

[Kipcom]

They added more lag to it when you hit someone or their shield.

Drop everything you learned about in regards to the old Magnet's timing.

 

[Sartron]

The hitlag modifier on Down Special release was changed from 0.4 to 1. This adds 3 more frames of hitlag which will significantly change the timing from 3.02.

 

[Shell]

Hi guys, sorry I realize how frustrating it is to adjust muscle memory like this.

We didn't do this just to annoy you -- we globally normalized most hitlag modifiers back to 1x. Lucas's Magnet used a lower multiplier in v2-3.02 which made magnet have a single frame (!) of hitlag instead of four. When you pepper an opponent or their shield with a couple magnet hits now you have to mentally adjust for it having the proper hitlag; if you whiff then you won't notice any difference because there isn't any hitlag to throw you off, but if you connect you'll notice this slightly delayed timing. You'll get used to it after a few sessions, hang in there.

Oops Startron got me first.

 

[Xcite]

The hitlag modifier on Down Special release was changed from 0.4 to 1. This adds 3 more frames of hitlag which will significantly change the timing from 3.02.

So does that effectively mean that combos will be at least three frames tighter than they were in 3.02? That would really suck especially considering how Lucas basically lost all his shield pressure abilities and his range on lots of his moves as well as increased lag on them.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Okay, I thought I was just super rusty, hahaha

 

[Ya Boy GP]

So does that effectively mean that combos will be at least three frames tighter than they were in 3.02? That would really suck especially considering how Lucas basically lost all his shield pressure abilities and his range on lots of his moves as well as increased lag on them.

Yes, all Magnet followups will be 3 frames tighter than in 3.02.

Edit: I was wrong, disregard.

 

[Saxophoneoftime]

Can someone post a gif comparing the timings or like a controller thing that shows the inputs? I seriously cannot find this timing.

 

[NeonApophis]

To practice the new magnet timing, turn on the hitbox display. You can still jump on the frame after the release hitbox disappears, so being able to see the hitbox timings makes it easier. Also, I don't think it is the case that combos are any more difficult sine the opponent also takes increased hitlag. Magnet should be functionally the same even though the timings will now be different.

 

[Shell]

Magnet is -3 worse vs shield because of the hitlag, but the hitstun advantage on a hit opponent is unchanged as Neon said.

 

[Dron]

yeah, magnet followups should not technically be "tighter" in any way since this is dealing with hitlag rather than hitstun, the 3 frame delay is on both ends

I just find it surprising how the change of a single modifier on one special move can disrupt so many aspects of fundamental execution in a character's toolkit

edit: sniped, gg

 

[NeonApophis]

Magnet is -3 worse vs shield because of the hitlag, but the hitstun advantage on a hit opponent is unchanged as Neon said.

I'm assuming this is accurate, but don't opponents still take hit lag while in shield? I seem to remember looking at some shield advantage calculations a while ago which accounted for the hitlag modifier on electric attacks when determining how long the opponent would be stuck in shield. Is that not the case, or does it just not apply in this situation?

 

[Calabrel]

In 3.02 Lucas' down-b had a 0.4x hitlag modifier, this is what made it so the opponent and Lucas only experienced one frame of hitlag. However, shields, in 3.02 and 3.5, always experience 1.0x hitlag. So in 3.02 Lucas would receive 1 frame of hitlag, while a shielding opponent received 5 frames. This is one of the reasons this, and so many other moves, have had their hitlag normalized. This also explains why 3.5 Lucas has the same advantage/follow-up window vs a successful hit with down-b, but worse advantage vs shield.

 

[Strong Badam]

I'm assuming this is accurate, but don't opponents still take hit lag while in shield? I seem to remember looking at some shield advantage calculations a while ago which accounted for the hitlag modifier on electric attacks when determining how long the opponent would be stuck in shield. Is that not the case, or does it just not apply in this situation?

Electric hitlag does not take place when hitting a shield, at least not in Project M or Melee. Can't speak for Brawl.

 

[Twisty Treats]

Okay so I am kinda of a noob in the community but main Lucas. From what I am trying to understand it takes a little but longer to use the magnet to wavesdash to follow up combo?

 

[AntSSB]

pretty much yeah that's all

 

[Windstar120025]

Hi guys, sorry I realize how frustrating it is to adjust muscle memory like this.

We didn't do this just to annoy you -- we globally normalized most hitlag modifiers back to 1x. Lucas's Magnet used a lower multiplier in v2-3.02 which made magnet have a single frame (!) of hitlag instead of four. When you pepper an opponent or their shield with a couple magnet hits now you have to mentally adjust for it having the proper hitlag; if you whiff then you won't notice any difference because there isn't any hitlag to throw you off, but if you connect you'll notice this slightly delayed timing. You'll get used to it after a few sessions, hang in there.

Oops Startron got me first.

Says the man with the pic of a character still able to wave dash out of down-b without probs!

 

[Windstar120025]

Okay so I am kinda of a noob in the community but main Lucas. From what I am trying to understand it takes a little but longer to use the magnet to wavesdash to follow up combo?

this also makes it insanly harder to combo at all with the magnet seeing as for some reason they launch faster than you can wavedash backwards now

 

[NeonApophis]

In 3.02 Lucas' down-b had a 0.4x hitlag modifier, this is what made it so the opponent and Lucas only experienced one frame of hitlag. However, shields, in 3.02 and 3.5, always experience 1.0x hitlag. So in 3.02 Lucas would receive 1 frame of hitlag, while a shielding opponent received 5 frames. This is one of the reasons this, and so many other moves, have had their hitlag normalized. This also explains why 3.5 Lucas has the same advantage/follow-up window vs a successful hit with down-b, but worse advantage vs shield.

I somehow didn't see your post yesterday, but this explains a lot.

 

[MrAzureKun]

In terms of recovery all that changed was the following correct?
-PK Thunder 2 slows after a while
-Lucas has less drift than before when in special fall
-Tether range decreased (granted it didn't really make much sense before anyways)
-Magnet loses gravity stall after the first use

 

[ita16]

is djc from air from a down b no more when you magnet on some when then djc to a fair for example.

 

[Kipcom]

is djc from air from a down b no more when you magnet on some when then djc to a fair for example.

....What?

 

[ita16]

....What?

ok let me try and explain that better. You approach from the air with a magnet, if it hits them it sends them backward but if your quick enough, you double jump cancel in a forward air for example, there was almost no hit lag in 3.2 but in 3.5 i can't do it.

 

[Kipcom]

Oh, okay. I understand what you mean now.

Yeah, the added hitlag makes aerial magnet to DJC fair either no longer possible, or incredibly hard to do consistently, since they're usually above or behind you by the time the hitlag is over.
I would like to add that an aerial magnet to a DJC uair still works in this situation. It's a different timing, of course, but it works.

Magnet to fair in general just seems like a no go in this patch.

 

[Eisen]

You can do it still. I've done it. I think the key is to cancel it when the magnet hitbox isn't out. You can also do the grounded manget > jump b reversed magnet thing.

I'm still having trouble understanding something. When I use magnet and wavedash out of it, there seems to be a notable, but not awful, change in the time I can wavedash out. But, if I try magnet > jump cancel > magnet, it seems like I have to wait 10-15 frames before it allows me to jump, as if the anmiation has to be over before I can do another magnet. Is there a reason why it may be or FEEL different than wavedashing out of it?

 

[TheAlchemist]

To practice the new magnet timing, turn on the hitbox display. You can still jump on the frame after the release hitbox disappears, so being able to see the hitbox timings makes it easier. Also, I don't think it is the case that combos are any more difficult sine the opponent also takes increased hitlag. Magnet should be functionally the same even though the timings will now be different.

How exactly do you practice? Do i just have to try to move faster..?