20XX edgehog?

[stretto]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD2VKY7mWSQ

at 4:18 falcon immediately grabs ledge after doing what I'm guessing is a turnaround right at the edge of the stage? I did this a couple of times while dashdancing near the ledge, perhaps characters who don't have a turnaround option should try this. Why doesn't anyone do it?

 

[dRevan64]

It's reeeeeeeally hard to PChog out of a dash.

 

[Kadano]

That was just an edgecanceled turn. After the uair landing lag, he still had quite much forward momentum. Then he turned around and, during that, slided off the stage. Because turning around takes effect immediately, he was able to grab the ledge.

 

[dRevan64]

That was just an edgecanceled turn. After the uair landing lag, he still had quite much forward momentum. Then he turned around and, during that, slided off the stage. Because turning around takes effect immediately, he was able to grab the ledge.

I knew that but he was asking specifically about a dash drop, right? Isn't that like some ridiculously precise input to pull off? I remember seeing it being discussed in that one thread about sheik/jiggs ledgestalling.

 

[choknater]

That was just an edgecanceled turn. After the uair landing lag, he still had quite much forward momentum. Then he turned around and, during that, slided off the stage. Because turning around takes effect immediately, he was able to grab the ledge.

sounds pretty 20XX to me. i wonder if i can master that, if you're right

 

[Sanu]

What you're seeing is essentially a perfectly spaced pivot on the edge. Doing it with purpose and intent requires a very precise hand.

A good use can be seen in Falcon; dash dancing on a platform to pivot drop knee.

 

[Kadano]

Pivot edgehogs are not just hard, they also require an additional type of precision. Because the total sliding distance after the first turn frame is less than the maximum distance any character can move with a dash in one frame, you need to react to the exact distance to the edge with certain analog stick inputs to do the pivot edgehog successfully in every situation.
By holding forward, you ensure that the character approximates his maximum dashing speed. Any other inputs will decrease the dashing speed. By selecting the right option for every frame, you can always (haven’t confirmed that for every character, but I’m pretty sure it is) edgehog.

For example, if Captain Falcon climbs the ledge (to ensure an exact reference position) and then dashes back towards the ledge, holding full towards for 4 frames and then holding full backwards will make Captain Falcon spend one frame in his Turn animation and then fall off the ledge, successfully triggering the pivot edgehog.
If he instead dashes towards the ledge and holds toward for only one frame, he will fall off the stage after frame 5 (instead of 4 if he keeps holding towards the edge). If he again turns after frame 4 of his dash, he will not reach the ledge before his sliding motion has ended.
Now it might seem like he could simply wait one frame longer until he turns, right? Unfortunately, at that point he is so close to the ledge that he will immediately fall after frame 5 – to actually turn around, spending at least one frame in the Turn animation is required.

If you wonder what happens if forward is held for 3 or 2 frames: for 3 frames, everything is the same as for 4 frames. If forward is held for only 2 frames, Captain Falcon will slide off the ledge after Turn 3.

Another example: Marth. Again, we go to the ledge and climb up to ensure an exact reference position. Then we have Marth dash towards the ledge again. Here are the timings and their results:
• If Marth holds towards the edge the entire time during his dash, he will fall off after frame 6. If he presses backwards after frame 6, he will still slide off. [No pivot edgehog]
• If Marth holds towards the edge during the first 5 frames of his dash, then keeps his analog stick in a neutral position for one frame and then smashes it backwards, he will still slide off before he can turn. [No pivot edgehog]
• If Marth holds towards the edge during the first 4 frames of his dash, then keeps his analog stick in a neutral position for 2 frames and then smashes it backwards, he will enter his Turn animation and slide off after Turn 1. [Successful pivot edgehog]
• If Marth holds towards the edge during the first 3 frames of his dash, then keeps his analog stick in a neutral position for 3 frames and then smashes it backwards, he will enter his Turn animation and slide off after Turn 4. [Successful pivot edgehog]
• If Marth holds towards the edge during the first 2 frames of his dash, then keeps his analog stick in a neutral position for 4 frames and then smashes it backwards, he will enter his Turn animation, but he won’t have enough momentum left to slide off the ledge. [No pivot edgehog]

 

[Bones0]

Kadano probably just posted something incredibly enlightening, but all I can see is censored Marth on Marth buttsex.

Also, I do the thing in the OP all the time. It's not much more difficult than a regular PC drop if you are really familiar with your character's jump distance.

 

[Kadano]

Kadano probably just posted something incredibly enlightening, but all I can see is censored Marth on Marth buttsex.

The dark orange diamond is the previous frame’s environment collision box (ECB, a term coined by Magus420. I used to call this “stage collision detection quadrilateral”). The white border diamond is the current frame’s projected ECB that is then detected against the environment and corrected accordingly. The yellow-orange diamond is the final current frame ECB. If there is no environment collision on that frame (this is the case in the picture above), projected ECB and corrected ECB are identical.
To be precise, the ECBs are not what matters for pivot edgehogs, that is more entangled with the base position stars. They look like crosses in the picture above and are attached to the ECB on the ground (in the air, they are usually detached).

So, by comparing the previous frame’s base position and the current frame’s base position, we can measure the current moving speed (Δx and Δy). The orange } sign I painted there symbolizes this speed measurement. The blue } sign does the same, but it doesn’t compare a 1-frame movement, but a 7-frame movement, because during all of these Turn frames you can slide off and pivot edgehog. So, if the ledge was somewhere below the } sign, the inputs illustrated there (pivot after Dash 5) would cause a pivot edgehog. Because the edge is located farther to the right, Marth does not fall off.

It is so important that the } is larger than the } because otherwise, the need to alter your dash speed according to your position relative to the edge would not be necessary – there would always be a frame on which a turn would slide off, even if you previously kept fully pressed towards on the analog stick.

 

[TerryJ]

I do this all the time, it's really just jumping at the right spot and then holding the other direction right as you hit the ground.

On a side note, I love you Kadano. I'm going to have to read this a couple times over.

 

[Xyzz]

haven’t confirmed that for every character, but I’m pretty sure it is

I like how that implies that you *have* tested it for some of them... you really are bored, man

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

if you want to grab ledge like its 20xx, just do an arial and edgecancel into ledgegrab