Meta "The Key to Victory Lies Within" – The Official Robin Formal Match-Up Discussion Thread

[Moydow]

Welcome, everyone, to the Official Robin Match-up discussion thread!​

While the original thread will remain open and can be used for immediate Q&A for a specific matchup, this thread’s more along the lines of other character MU threads, where we will go over one or two characters per week and invite the other players in to discuss the matchup, and compile all the information here, with a quick, detailed summary at the end.

CURRENT CHARACTER DISCUSSION – Patch 1.1.0 Open discussion​

When contributing, be sure to provide arguments supporting your thoughts whenever you can. Videos, frame data, the works. Remember that other mains will be here to discuss the matchup from their point of view, so be clear and concise with your thoughts.

Providing matchup numbers (+1/-1, +2/-2, etc.) is acceptable, but please try to include these core details in your analyses:

-What To Do
-What NOT to do
-What to WATCH OUT FOR​

This also includes custom moves and the custom metagame!


A number means little if we don’t have the information to back it up! This request also extends to other character mains, please provide all info that you can!

Previous Discussions​

Spoiler

April 22, 2015 – Initial Voting stage
April 24, 2015 - discussion
May 21, 2015 - discussion
May 28, 2015 - discussion
June 5, 2015 - discussion
June 17, 2015 - discussion
June 24, 2015 - discussion
July 4, 2015 - discussion
July 11, 2015 - discussion
July 27, 2015 - discussion

August 2, 2015 - Patch 1.1.0 Open discussion

Let’s start this off, Robins, with a quick vote between five of the perceived "top" characters. All votes will be counted by April 24 @4:00 pm CST. Ready?

 

[Mr. Johan]

The Robins and maybe others have spoken, so the first MU to be discussed in depth here is

The Last of the Sheikah – Sheik!

​

Threads of interest:

http://smashboards.com/threads/sheikah-catalog-time-to-step-up-your-game.387205/

http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-frame-data-1-0-4.387024/


So we know Sheik’s speed game is monstrous and overwhelming at times, but are there things Robin can do to take advantage of Sheik’s sub-par pure killing strength? Let’s get started.

 

[Absol]

Most damage should come from challenging sheiks aerials with the Levin sword. Use your spells to stall out just to use the sword again. You hardly will ever get to charge anything due to needles. Arc fire is your saving grace for Levin and Levin is your saving grace for arc fire. Elwind jab finisher can make for a good kill option as well.

Basically just sponge and kill her first. Crouch canceling can help you live even longer. Let the rage factor help you. And don't use airdodge too much. Taking damage is better than losing a stock.

 

[Ultimastrike]

From what we should already know from what was discussed in the previous MU Thread, Sheik is going to give Robin a difficult time charging Thoron with the spammable projectile needles. They go a long ways, so it can be an anti-camp strategy to close the gap slowly and prevent Robin from gaining a Thoron Charge. Sheik's combos such as FThrow->Bouncing Fish/FAir can possibly gimp Robin as well, since Robin's recovery is horizontally challenged. RAR BAir after performing a FF FAir chain can prove deadly for Robin at high percents. Sheiks should know not to use DAir unless they're confident as it has a bunch of endlag that can be punished in any way possible by Robin. Grenade may possibly be a way to lock out Robin at the edge using the ATs listed in the thread that was linked in the OP since offstage, Robin has to go for the ledge or risk getting hit by a USmash or FSmash(unless Sheik rushes in to try and gimp him with FAir).

Robin, on the other hand, can attempt to stop Sheik's approach with Elthunder on the ground, since it takes half a second to charge it to that. Arcfire should be used very sparingly here as it has a lot of endlag on it. If possible, bring Fire Wall if using customs to wall her out from a grab. For the most part, Robin can't gimp Sheik due to Vanish being a teleport to the ledge. If any, chasing a Vanish would make Robin in a disadvantaged state. Robin may have a few problems with dealing with Sheik's momentum as pretty much all of her moves can be Fast Falled without lag except for SH UAir and Specials, so tilts may help here in dealing with that. If you manage to charge to Thoron, Sheik is going to have a lot of trouble getting through it, unless she uses Vanish to reach the ground...though I don't know how much endlag is on it and if invulnerability is still an issue. All of Robin's aerials can challenge Sheik's due to the disjoint and reach. Items can also trap Sheik on landing, and can be used to pressure shield. Levin DSmash on the other hand may be troublesome to hit with since Sheik can roll fast, so unless you catch her rolling in front of where you're smashing it like Marth, the electricity behind you may not hit her.

...This is pretty much what I know from a bit of knowledge of the MU. Take it with a grain of salt if it's proved wrong, since I haven't played any real Sheik players from the boards.

 

[Meta651]

We already know that this MU is horrible for us, Sheik can edgeguard us really easily and coming back to the stage is going to be a pain. Sheik's speed and amazing frame data is going to make really hard to charge Thunder or throw Arcfires, also the needles are perfect for stoping us from charging thunder. Her Fair is going to rack damage us really easily and she can edgeguard us with that and her Bair (is nerfed so is not as terrible as before but still watch out).
Another problem is that is almost imposible to gimp Sheiks because Vanish invincibility and also that the explosion can kill us so our Nair or bronze swords gimps are almost useless offstage, you better use that time charging Thoron.

So Sheik is a really annoying character that can combo us for days but one good advantage we have is that we shine we're she really have trouble: Kill power. Our Levin aerials are amazing, we have good reach, powerful and disjointed hitbox in all our Levin aerials so figthing in the air while we have the Levin sword should be more useful that staying in the ground throwing projectiles. Still I think that we still can use our projectiles but we can't spam Arcfire and you need to use really efficiently and in this MU I prefer to use Elthunders because they have long reach, do more damage and you can charge it relatively fast.

Other thing is that our Jab is really useful here, is quick and now the Wind and Fire Jab are godlike, the two can kill and Wind jab now racks damage a lot better, also our jab can stop some Sheik approaches.

For customs I think that Speed thunder really give us a tool to fight and control a lot better Sheik approachs, thunder becomes a really annoying and fast projectile and you can spam Elthunders and even Arcthunders, maybe the occasional Thoron that is going to be more present if you are using Speed instead of default thunder.

That are my two cents to the MU but it would be nice is more Robins come to discuss MUs, we need to step our game!

Also I'm going to tag @Raziek because I'm sure he can give more feedback in this MU.

 

[The_Cardinal]

We already know that this MU is horrible for us, Sheik can edgeguard us really easily and coming back to the stage is going to be a pain. Sheik's speed and amazing frame data is going to make really hard to charge Thunder or throw Arcfires, also the needles are perfect for stoping us from charging thunder. Her Fair is going to rack damage us really easily and she can edgeguard us with that and her Bair (is nerfed so is not as terrible as before but still watch out).
Another problem is that is almost imposible to gimp Sheiks because Vanish invincibility and also that the explosion can kill us so our Nair or bronze swords gimps are almost useless offstage, you better use that time charging Thoron.

So Sheik is a really annoying character that can combo us for days but one good advantage we have is that we shine we're she really have trouble: Kill power. Our Levin aerials are amazing, we have good reach, powerful and disjointed hitbox in all our Levin aerials so figthing in the air while we have the Levin sword should be more useful that staying in the ground throwing projectiles. Still I think that we still can use our projectiles but we can't spam Arcfire and you need to use really efficiently and in this MU I prefer to use Elthunders because they have long reach, do more damage and you can charge it relatively fast.

Other thing is that our Jab is really useful here, is quick and now the Wind and Fire Jab are godlike, the two can kill and Wind jab now racks damage a lot better, also our jab can stop some Sheik approaches.

For customs I think that Speed thunder really give us a tool to fight and control a lot better Sheik approachs, thunder becomes a really annoying and fast projectile and you can spam Elthunders and even Arcthunders, maybe the occasional Thoron that is going to be more present if you are using Speed instead of default thunder.

That are my two cents to the MU but it would be nice is more Robins come to discuss MUs, we need to step our game!

Also I'm going to tag @Raziek because I'm sure he can give more feedback in this MU.

I apologize in advance if I am repeating some of the things people already said but perhaps that can still be considered a good thing since it means we're identifying the same issues and potential solutions.

I agree that Speed Thunder is a must for us if we want to even remotely come close to zoning Sheik successfully and consistently. If you're using default though, then we should probably stick to Elthunder more since Sheik makes it difficult for us to charge.

What is most important is probably to keep calm and carry on. She will rack on the damage on us quickly even if we're on top of our game. That's just what she does as a character. Our saving grace is our generally superior KO options so let's use rage to our advantage.

Learning to jab well against her is also crucial. It's our main close range tool against her and can even be used as anti-air sometimes for Sheiks who sh a lot. The patch changes helps us even further since wind jab is now a legitimate threat against Sheik, especially when we consider that jab is also an antiair.

As someone stated already, gimping Sheik is difficult but if she is recovering from below the stage I believe we should still go for the elwind spike, especially since vanish doesn't have that much vertical recovery.

Key thing to not do against Sheik is to use Arcfire recklessly since both her speed and her needles make it easy for her to punish us.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Everyones pretty much said whats to be said about the Shiek MU. From my experience Lylat, and Battlefield kind of tip things in Robins favor. Yeah I don't have much on the Shiek one that hasn't been said. What do you guys think about C.Falcon tho?

 

[PK Gaming]

Sheik easily anti-caps you with needles and forces Robin to come to her (which is the LAST thing a Robin player wants) and wrecks your life at close range. Walks all over you off stage, and she can challenge Robin in the air

Bad, bad matchup

Where are the Sheik mains at?

 

[Absol]

I really just think you shouldn't do this match up. Its one of the worst match ups in the game. Consider whatever pocket character you have on the back burner because the only thing robin has in this match up is Levin sword and thats it.

 

[Ultimastrike]

@ Absol Levin Sword isn't ALL we have. People have considered Elthunder. Jabs. There are a few options on which Robin can capitalize on, but the main problem is that Sheik is just too fast for Robin to keep up. She can SHFF all day with her aerials, meaning literally zero lag FAir Chains. Sheik's only kill moves are Smashes, UAir, and BAir. Sheik is still ridiculously good across the record.

A question I'd like to ask: What may possibly be a counter to Sheik?

-We have heavies that can take advantage of the Rage to kill Sheik(Wario, who has a fart that can kill you at 30% Full Charge; Ganondorf, who can make heavy comebacks just off of reads, even though he does lose to FAir Chains...; DK aka EXPAND DONG, who has his Up B to secure things on the ground along with powerful hits and Giant Punch).

-You can also just counter with your own speedy character such as Sonic, where use of Spin Dash may help(even though it gets walled by Needles); The Dirty Ape(Diddy Kong), that can use Bananas to stop Sheik's FAir Momentum on the ground...I can't think of much else.

 

[Absol]

The only real weakness of sheik is that she always loses trades when it comes to damage and also because of the lack of kill power, and that rage works against her.

The only real way to "counter" sheik is just to out sponge her, and kill her first while using rage to your advantage. And I'm not just being biased or over hyping my favorite character. There are characters that do well against her like Ness, or maybe wario with customs. But if you're looking for a counter to sheik you better be packing another sheik. If you arent using Sheik against Sheik you NEED to out trade her, rarely air dodge so she cant kill you well, and use rage to your advantage. The only real counter to Sheik is rage...and even then that kind of helps her. But not nearly as much as the rest of the cast.

 

[Strong-Arm]

What about Sonic? I think we can all conclude that the match up against Shiek is totally in her favor. Tho from what I've played fire wall can be pretty good at stopping them from certain combos. For example F-tilt into f-air, you can usually get at least one fire wall out to stop them. Anyways Sonic always gives me a hard time.

 

[Absol]

What about Sonic? I think we can all conclude that the match up against Shiek is totally in her favor. Tho from what I've played fire wall can be pretty good at stopping them from certain combos. For example F-tilt into f-air, you can usually get at least one fire wall out to stop them. Anyways Sonic always gives me a hard time.

I think were trying to stay on track with Sheik here

 

[Strong-Arm]

Kay. Well anyways Firewall has helped me out at times. I still think battlefield is the best stage against Sheik just because Robin can zone better obviously. The big advantage Robin has is that she can go in pretty deep due to her above average recovery. Still doesnt mean its in Robins favor, but she has options.

 

[Ultimastrike]

Firewall I recommend against Sheik for walling out her approach along with Speed Thunder to charge faster against Needles.

 

[Strong-Arm]

Speed Thunder, and Firewall are good. I believe her normal arc wind is fine and better than the other two tbh. Her notsfaru tho is best with distant i think, zone shiek out even more with it. Ill have to test it tho.

 

[Gamegenie222]

A thread that are actually talking bout MU's cool. I don't have any MU's experience against Shiek with Robin so I can't contribute.

 

[Danimal197]

https://youtu.be/THbCNZjjko0?t=4m37s

Trela(one of the best robin players in existence) vs Karna(shiek comparable to denti)

 

[Zareidriel]

Wow that was a sick match actually. @Trela is one of the best Robins I've ever seen. Even so, Sheik is just such a terrible MU for us.

According to this thing http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/character/sheik/ Sheik has no bad matchups whatsoever. Lol. But several of the top tiers, Yoshi, Diddy, Zero, and Rosa have a pretty good chance against her.

 

[Ultimastrike]

You do know that's a voted tier list, right? I'm not entirely sure if it's to be trusted.

 

[Meta651]

https://youtu.be/THbCNZjjko0?t=4m37s

Trela(one of the best robin players in existence) vs Karna(shiek comparable to denti)

Watched the match and Trela played really well against the Sheik, making solid damage and mix ups (also teching every time Karma stage spiked him). And I noted that he used the Fire Jab only 1 time and he also used Arcfire like 4 times, also he didn't used a lot of Thunders or Elthunders. He played with less projectiles and more with the Levin Sword to rack damage and get the kill.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Are we moving on to another character soon?

 

[Moydow]

Are we moving on to another character soon?

@ Mr. Johan is currently slightly out of action due to technical difficulties. If he doesn't mind (doesn't look like we're getting any more input on Sheik), I propose we begin discussion on the character who came second on his straw poll: Captain Falcon .

 

[The_Cardinal]

@ Mr. Johan is currently slightly out of action due to technical difficulties. If he doesn't mind (doesn't look like we're getting any more input on Sheik), I propose we begin discussion on the character who came second on his straw poll: Captain Falcon .

I wouldn't mind talking about Falcon in a day or two if nothing else happens.

 

[Omegascizor456]

I have recently picked robin up and he is so fun to use, and could be VERY effective imo, i will definetely have him as a pocket character!

 

[Moydow]

I wouldn't mind talking about Falcon in a day or two if nothing else happens.

Okay, then, let's get started. I'll go and post on the Falcon boards as well, and ask for input on their end.

I have recently picked robin up and he is so fun to use, and could be VERY effective imo, i will definetely have him as a pocket character!

That's great! But this isn't the right thread for these sort of posts. You should check out the social thread, though, everyone there is pretty cool.

-------------

So, next up is...

The Legendary F-Zero Champion - Captain Falcon

Threads of interest:

Captain Falcon Moveset Guide

Captain Falcon's Frame Data


At first glance, the Captain may appear to have it all - speed and power in copious amounts - but is the man from the world of 2000km/h going to dash back to Port Town with another title under his belt, or can slow and steady really win this race?

 

[The_Cardinal]

Well if that's the case @ Moydow then I will get the ball rolling.

The general consensus seems to be that Falcon beats Robin. And while I can agree with that to an extent, I don't think think it's that bad Robin. True, Falcon can be an explosive fireball that can hit us both hard and fast, taking advantage of Robin's key weakness to pressure. But I feel Robin has the tools to beat Falcon.

Falcon has two main weaknesses (though admittedly the second one may be more debatable) that Falcon has that Robin can exploit. The obvious weakness being his poor recovery. We gimp him, for free. While Falcon can get a spike on us, that requires either a read on his part or just a mistake on ours. In other words, we gimp him easier than he can gimp us.

Falcon's approach, while not necessarily bad, is fairly linear especially when compared to the more dynamic approaches characters like Diddy and Sheik can do. Robin preys on characters with linear approach options, whether it be with a well placed arcfire, elthunder, arcthunder, or a spaced out nair or levin fair.

What to do:
Go for the gimps and early kills
Use jab, arcfire, and elthunder/arcthunder to keep him at bay.
take advantage of our superior range, especially in the air.
Bring speed thunder. Even thunder, in speed thunder form, can be a great way to disrupt Falcon's momentum when he's approaching.
Use wind jab to kill, which theoretically should be a great option since Falcon is tall and is a fast faller, meaning he will have a harder time di-ing out it compared to most characters.
If you know how to b-reverse, use it as a way to mix up landings.

What NOT to do:
Stay in your shield too long. Falcon has a great grab game and that's what he want us to do
Throw arcfire mindlessly. Although it's a great tool against Falcon, he can still easily punish us for a poorly spaced arcfire
Go to final destination
Charge thunder for too long. Another reason why I recommend speed thunder.

What to watch out:
Jabs. Honestly still don't know how to deal with this well.
Airdodge baits. Yes, every character can do this, but it feels particularly painful when Falcon baits your airdodge into the knee of justice.

 

[RobinOnDrugs]

Robin tends to have a disadvantage against characters who are able to close the gap easily, meaning that Falcon has an edge against Robin as he's able to run right in and punish him/her easily. However, Falcon does have some punishable lag on his moves if he misses, something that Robin, let alone any character can take advantage of.

I think the key to beating Captain Falcon as Robin is by keeping him at bay and take advantage of stages with platforms so that Falcon doesn't have a free shot at running straight at you at high speed (he is the second fastest character in the game after all).

That's all I got. I don't play much competitive Sm4sh to form a good opinion on match ups.

 

[In_3D]

Usually when I approach as Falcon, I either go for a grab or a dash attack. Unless I'm facing a character who can block my approach with a projectile. In that scenario I simply dash and shield whatever is thrown at me and continue my pursuit. Some ways you can stop this is to throw a projectile then spot-dodge which renders both my approaches useless and leaves me to be punished if you're quick enough. If I were facing a Falcon, I wouldn't challenge him head-on, I would play defensive and punish his approaching options. If you're forced to stay in shield, you can assume Falcon is going to go for a grab. Best way to deal with this is to either jab or spot-dodge. If you're in the air, getting back to the stage is you're main priority because Falcon can dominate you with up-airs and back-airs. I would use my air-dodges wisely in the air, and b-reverse to mix Falcon up. If you have Falcon in the air, I would wait for him to land and grab him since its the safest option. If he's on the edge, reading his get-up option is you're priority, but you may be able to bait him into an up-air if you stand next to the stage and shield his attack. Edge-guarding should be somewhat easy since you have options such as b-air, f-air, up-b, side-b. A Falcon player is pretty predictable when trying to recover, but a smart Falcon might save his jump for an opportune moment to get back safely. A Falcon off-stage is a very vulnerable Falcon without his jump, use this to you're advantage. Falcon's Jab is almost always thrown out if he is next to you or if he whiffs an attack, be wary of this and shield immediately. I don't know the MU for Robin that well :/, but these are my general thoughts.

 

[Shinyman337]

I don't know much about the match up, so can anyone play me for a bit to get a feel for it?

 

[Trifroze]

You should never use Arcfire without either approaching or retreating through the air in this matchup since Falcon has enough time to jump over the fire, uair Robin before landing and combo it into knee resulting in a kill initially between 50 and 90%. Later he can just use the knee alone. Robin can't really rely on punishing any attacks Falcon throws out since neither one of them should be using extremely punishable ones. Robin has to systematically try to pressure Falcon with projectiles as much as possible while keeping him out with aerials, and punish his shield and dash-ins. It takes almost a second for Falcon to get his shield up after he starts a dash because of how long his initial dash is, so mostly save your thunders for this. If he walks he needs to shield so much fire and thunder that it'll poke him eventually, and if he jumps you can try to read it. Arcfire works well on Falcon and often gives you a follow-up because of Falcon's large size, weight and fall speed, but as said you should be careful about using it.

When he gets in mid range though and he's still good at it, there isn't much Robin can do. The key is mostly to prevent this situation from happening as much as possible. However Robin's rapid jab variation works well on Falcon and has decent use in this matchup for boxing situations on the ground. IIRC it's only 1 frame slower than Falcon's jab and has considerably more range, but ideally Falcon will space himself properly and won't be putting himself in situations where you can take advantage of this, although it's still an option that prevents Falcon from just rushing Robin down for free. Falcon's own jab will harass Robin by not giving you any space and constantly sending you in the air or offstage at a bad angle. Uairs juggle Robin very well and keep you in the air for a long time, however you should never airdodge in the middle of these uair strings. Falcon will read it and punish with either a knee or a dair depending on whether you're onstage or offstage. As unintuitive as it seems, whenever you're in a situation where you can't jump away from Falcon's uair string and he's fastfalling them, you should just accept it and take the damage rather than airdodge. Save the latter for situations where it cannot be punished such as landing from high up while having full aerial mobility and the ability to b reverse etc. Falcon's whole advantage revolves around conditioning bad airdodges.

Both characters have similarly edgeguardable recoveries because they lack hitboxes. Robin should mostly use up b and nair to try to gimp Falcon and mix your own recovery up as much as you can since Falcon can punish both high and low recoveries with his bair and dair. I'd say the characters are similar in terms of killing ability at higher percents (100+). Robin's aerials hit harder and have more range but Falcon chases Robin down better. They both also have similarly effective back throws near the ledge. Falcon does have the ability to kill at 60-80% without meteors or without being offstage / at the edge of the stage though. Probably not a big disadvantage for Robin, but I'd definitely drop this a -1 or 40:60 from Robin's perspective.

After reading the other posts, it looks like @ The_Cardinal mostly brought up the same things earlier.

 

[sunfallSeraph]

When he gets in mid range though and he's still good at it, there isn't much Robin can do. The key is mostly to prevent this situation from happening as much as possible.

I feel like this is the core struggle in this matchup. It's real easy for a smart Falcon to simply hang around outside of Ftilt range and wait for you to hit a button then punish with... well, nearly anything. Robin's frames on the ground are just too weak to protect her; just throwing out Jab 1 at an empty approach or as a 'back off' button means a free dash grab -> auto combo. The only answer I feel Robin has once Falcon is in mid-range (and let's be real, when is a good one not going to be, Thunder/Arcfire just aren't keeping him out long) is empty-hopping around and occasionally threatening with retreating SH Arcfire or Fair, maybe Nair if he's rushing your landing. That kinda movement is probably just gonna tell Falcon he can start throwing out free Falcon Kicks/Raptor Boosts though to pressure your landings. I always bring Fire Wall to this MU because of how free our landings are for him, but I don't usually feel like it protects me all that much, and the loss of retreating SH Arcfire makes trying to get momentum feel impossible... idk, I lose to Falcon almost every single time. I spend the entire game in a defensive position and constantly losing stage control trying to escape his mid-range hell. Advice would be much appreciated. Falcon is easily my most despised MU, and it just ruins the character for me. No offense to his players, of course (but also stop steamrolling me plz kthx ).

 

[Leafyon]

In this matchup I have found that backwards wavebounce arc/elthunder tends to be my go to tool for getting some while still trying to effectively deal damage. Not much else can be said about the matchup that hasn't already been said.

 

[Silverfox117]

I play a lot of matches with SSJ2 Gohan, and I have to say that this MU might actually be even. Here is the thing in the neutral Falcon doesn't have a lot of approach options and all but his bair our nair and levin sword fair beats out. Arcfire makes it difficult for falcon to just run in on us and overwhelm us. Plus Falcon is tall making it hard for him to mash out of Arcfire. El thunder and Arcthunder are great options that stuffs Falcons ability to approach. We simply win the neutral if we keep a steady head. Robin has all the tools necessary to keep Falcon out indefinitely, and a game were the neutral matters the most that's pretty huge.

However, once Falcon is in he is not getting out. Robin is too slow and has no ways of getting Falcon off her easily. She is easily juggled which is one of Falcons strongest points, and our weight plus air dodge is super easy to read and get a knee off of. Also our recovery is super easy to read making it easy for falcon to get a stomp or stage spike on us.

I say that this MU is even due to Robin having every option to win the neutral, but struggles to get Falcon off. They both can gimp each other very easily too, and we both have the kill power necessary to end stocks pretty easily.

 

[Meta651]

When I play Robin vs Falcon I don't have such a hard time with him when comparing to the others rushdowns top tiers like Sheik or Diddy. So what we know about Falcon is:

• Falcon can combo us for days from a Dthrow or an Uair
• Doing a bad airdodge means that we are going to receive a real hard punish
• Can gimp us kinda easily
• Good kill power, a good or charged Fsmash and we are dead in early percents

Falcon is going to look for airdodges habits so he can punish them with Uair strings or even a Dair or Knee so you need to keep calm in the air and not air dodge all the time, he's going to spam Uair and Jab because they are really good moves that comes out instantly, have good priority and do solid damage so you need to watch out for that. Also after landing from Uair/Bair/Nair is really possible that Falcon is going to cover himself with a Jab or even an Ftilt so watch out.

In neutral I think we have the upper hand if we abuse our projectiles wisely (if you can bring Speed Thunder USE IT!), you should keep him at bay with the first 3 variation of thunder and Arcfire so you can rack all the damage you can and make a wall with your projectiles, if you do it well he's going to have a bad time searching for an opening. If he finds a way to close the gap, you should try to get him off with Ftilt or a Nair to keep him away, maybe Dtilt can be useful to stop him and use your Jab A LOT, it comes fast and covers decent range of space, also you can kill horizontally with Fire and vertically with Wind, your jab is an amazing tool so use it.

I think that in the air Falcon wins but not by much, we still have amazing kill power with Fair, Bair and Uair. Spaced Fairs are really good in this MU because it haves good range and disjointed, we can juggle him with Uairs because he doesn't really have a good way to deal with juggling, and Robin can do an Elwind to attack below, but Falcon can do Dair or Falcon Kick and both attack are really punishable if missed (Still look out for offstage Dairs).

Where I think we have a good time is gimping him, his recovery is like ours in a sense that is really linear and predictable so you can use the Nairplane to gimp him or bronze Fair without to much risk of getting grabbed by the Up B so go for that and send him to the deeps of Oblivion.

Stage wise I'm not really sure to where to go, we like platforms as much as Falcon but he gains more from Final Destination that us so I think that we need to be away from FD or the likes like SV in this MU. Our main kill moves like Uair and Bair are quite similar that Falcon so I think that it becomes a contest of who knows better the stage so try to look a somewhere with platforms but that you feel comfortable, I think Lylat is ok but I'm not sure.

That are my two cents, I'm comaining Falcon and Robin so I think I have a good idea of how to play both but still I haven't played this MU a lot (Falcon dittos are way to fun).

 

[Zareidriel]

I'd like to challenge the notion that the general consensus is that Falcon beats Robin. I've fought 20+ different Captain Falcons of varying skill levels and I think he's one of our easiest matchups.

 

[Gamegenie222]

I'd like to challenge the notion that the general consensus is that Falcon beats Robin. I've fought 20+ different Captain Falcons of varying skill levels and I think he's one of our easiest matchups.

As someone who is a fellow space pheasant user and tactician I be willing to play you later in the week. I think it's even or slight advantage to one side.

EDIT: That was meant for Falco not Falcon lmao please ignore this post tired johns.

 

[Zareidriel]

Falco is a different story...reflectors are evil. That being said, I'll fight ya anyway if you want. Always looking for more matchup experience.

I agree that the Falco matchup is fairly even, maybe a 55/45 to Falco's advantage.

But so this post has some Captain content...skilled Falcons will sometimes wait, let you waste arcfire and look for an opening if you charge Thunder recklessly (and often find one). It might be a good idea to restrict your charging, use a platform to limit his offensive options, and/or learn to cancel Thunder quickly act in your defense. He runs fast as hell so the third one is a bit tricky.

 

[The_Cardinal]

With Speed Thunder I actually do think we beat Falcon by a bit, especially since his customs are kinda lackluster. But yes, I actually do feel comfortable enough fighting Falcon, although that just might be because my friend and everyone and their mother plays Falcon in For Glory.

 

[Meta651]

I don't know if he is one of our easiest MU but I don't think that is quite bad, we can zone him pretty bad and we can do a very good air fight, we may lack at combos but we have amazing killpower.