Climbing Thier Way to The Top! ~ An Ice Climber Guide ~

This is my first guide. I hope it's useful to someone in someway. =/

Ok, I've noticed a lack of Climber guides in the guide list. Most of the ones I've come across were mini guides. So I'll take a crack at one.

Please note that this guide isnt the greatest guide in the world but it should help out some IC newbs.

Contents

1: Intro
2: Basic moves
3: Pros / Cons
4: Physics
5: Unique abilities
6: Fun Times
7: Combos
8: Glitches
9: DeSynching
10: Final Thoughts

1:
The Ice Climbers, in my opinion deserve to be High Tier. With thier great WDing skills they are really fast. With thier double attacks they are very strong. Teaming up makes for great combos. While they have thier short comings they have more then enough ways to make them one of the best characters in the game. And I hope with the help from this humble little guide you will "Climb" your way to the top!


The Ice Climbers, (parka twins), are very unique. They can beat out heavier characters like Fox with thier D-Smash and simular moves, but get pwned to no end by characters with projectiles. If you are serious about learing the Ice Climbers make sure that your only means of practice isnt a Falco, Samus or Link. These can and will give you alot of trouble. Characters like Doctor Mario and Peach will also make for a horrible stumbeling block in your practice.

The Ice Clmibers can resist grab happy opponents like Fox, Marth and Sheik by simply Smashing with the ungrabbed climber. This will make for a good match-up against the Top Tier characters. Its really rare to find a character that can have this sorta advantage on these great opponents so make it count for it will always be an uphill battle when fighting them.

One final thing to remember before playing is that the Ice Climbers are terrific edge-guarders. Thier F-Smash and the D-Smash has great knockback and reaches over the edge. With the right timing your opponents will stand no chance of recovery from being below the stage.

2:
A Moves
The Ice Climber's A moves can keep your opponent busy with thier double attacks and thier Smashes inflict massive damage.

Neutual A: 4%-2%: The neutual A is nothing special. Just like most other characters all the A attack does is get opponents off your back and sets up for a retaliation.

Tilt: 15%-8%: At higher percentages it can kill. This move is also very useful for grab combos, but I'll get to that later.

D-Tilt: 9%-5%: Nothing special here. Though this move is also useful for grab combos.

U-Tilt: 21%-10%: Fun move if you can pull it off. It is simular to Samus' U-Air. Begins with a drill and ends with a knockback attack. This can out prioritize some aerial attacks.

Dash: 17%-10%: This can set up for some other moves. The attack sends your opponent upward, but the lag of this attacks kills most of its combo potential.

N-Air: 15%-7%: This move can be used to get opponents off your back. I find myself using this move most when I botch up a WD and end up in the air. The Ice Climbers are very much NOT aerial fighters and should avoid the air as much as possible.

F-Air: 19%-10%: This move can do several things. It can spike if hit near the end of its attack, or it can knock back opponents in any other direction. This move is powerful, but slow. Only use this against slow characters when trying to spike or in grab combos such as a variation of the chain grab.

D-Air: 17%-9%: This attack isnt the greatest in the world. It isnt very strong and has very weak knockback. Though it has a very important redeeming quality, it is the easiest way to pull off the Ice Climbers' chain grab. Other then that I often find myself using this move if I have to save Nana and I'm in the air. It's easily L-Canceled.

U-Air: 17%-9%: This has the same attack power as the D-Air, but much more knockback. This move can be used to juggle and to kill upwards. Can also be used as an ending to a grab combo.

B-Air: 22%-11%: The B-Air is quite possibly the Climbers' most useful attacks. It has great knockback and is useful as a killing tool. I suggest SHing outta your sheild into this attack.

Smash: Fully Charged 36%-Weakest 14%: Very powerful and great attack. If stuck with just Popo his smashes are the way to go. Very useful as a finisher for combos.

D-Smash: Fully Charged 31%-Weakest 12%: Another move with mindblowing knockback, this move is the finisher of choice for the Climbers. The D-Smash gives great horizontal knockback and is ideal for finishing combos.

U-Smash: Fully Charged 28%-Weakest 10%: This is the weakest of the Climbers' Smashes. And even though it is still very good, I seldom find myself using it. It has good knockback and is better then most other U-Smashes in the game.

B Moves
B: 9%-5%: The ice blocks travel under most projectiles including Sheik's needles.

B-Tilt(Squall Hammer): 29%-16%: This move will be your best friend if Nana is killed off. This move makes a handy recovery move with or without Nana. With Nana the Squall Hammer can send you pretty high up and give you good distance over. I prefer this over the Belay if possible. This move is also needed for the IC Freeze Glitch.

D-B(Blizzard): 21-14%: This move is another fun one and is often overlooked by non-climber players. It can be used for massive grab combos, edge-guarding and Desynching. While preformed on the ground, the Blizzard attack will be sent on either side of you. Popo blasting the way you are facing while Nana turns and fires off in behind you. In the air however both Popo and Nana will blast it forward. To ensure maximum damage I suggest shorthopping prior to attack with the Blizzard.

U-B(Belay): 16%-10%: This move is obviously best done with both of the Climbers on hand. Pretty much useless without them both. This move will often times call Nana to you if she is nearby. She will "warp" to you if you do this move and she is further away. Also this moves damage ratio is abit odd. After you get down to 10%/attack the move will start randomly deal damage between 14%-10% instead of staying low at 10%. I dunno why you would ever want to Belay outta your shield, but dont bother. It is very hard to pull off, and when it does "work" you only Nana lifts off the ground. As I mentioned before its a pointless to try.

Throws
F-Throw: 5%
D-Throw: 6%
U-Throw: 5%
B-Throw: 7%
Headbutt: 3%-2%


3:
Pros:
Great Power
Great WD
Best Combos in the game
Double Teaming
Average Speed
Average Recovery
Great traction on slippery surfaces

Cons:
Bad air game
Less then average projectiles
Lose Nana and most of your combos go with her
Lose Nana and half of your power goes with her.
Pwned by projectiles. Very hard to keep Popo and Nana dodging projectiles such as missles.
Average Speed
Average Recovery
Sometimes Nana is upresponsive.

4:
The Ice Climbers' physics are about average. They are simular to Luigi in the way of weight / density ratios go. They have a decent CC and are floaty thus alowing them to recover easily. However all of this comes at a price. They get knocked back pretty easily without the proper DI and can lead to an easy death.

Sheilding can be odd as well. I suggest light sheilding if you want to get distance between yourself and your opponent after one of thier attacks. You will slide a great deal by doing this.

Thier WD is very good and I suggest using this in place of running as much as possible. The Climbers's best thing going for them are thier grab combos and WDing makes it easy to get your opponent stuck in one. With Nana dead however WDing can be used to dodge with Popo and land Smash attacks simular to how Luigi would.

5:
The Climbers' are considered to be one of the most unique if not the most unique characters in the game. Since there are two of them you can do so much. Combos galore and confusing antics make the climbers subject to fun gameplay and unforeseen attacks and methods of fighting.

Dodging is quite hard with the parka twins. Spot dodging is very back with them unless one is dead so I'm not going to get into its stats. Since Nana has a delay it can be hard to get both of them to dodge an attack. I suggest WDing and sheilding as a sub for spot dodging.

Desynching. (will get into that more later).

The Ice Climbers have a butt load of glitches that you can exploit. The infamous "Freeze Glitch" is a great example. It is banned from most tournies though and isnt considered to be sporting to do in battle.

The Ice Climbers' ice based attacks have the chance to freeze your opponent for a very short ammount of time. This isnt very useful but it can keep your opponent from having a speedy recovery. The chances of freezing your opponent as thier damage goes up.

Nana has about 8 frames of lag while Synched up. This can make it hard to dodge.

6:
Fun times are to be had with the parka twins.
The Babe Ruth: Grab with Popo at a high percent. While Popo is beating this poor guy with his head have Nana gloat. It will look as though she is "pointing to the fences" much like Babe Ruth was known to do before knocking one outta the park. Then follow up with the game winning Smash. This is mostly for style but is really fun to do.

The Ice Climbers have this fun ability to weild two weapons at once. Grab ahold of two beam swords for the time of you life. DeSynch with them and watch out Marth there are some new blademen in town.

7:
The greatest part about this lil guys are thier combos! They can do so much.

Almost everything the parka twins pull off is technically a combo. But the more you play the more you will realize the extent of thier comboing capibilities.

Grab Combos
The basic and probably the best Grab Combo is the infinite combo. Grab with Popo and headbutt. Then Forward tilt with Nana making sure not to push over to much on the control stick so that Popo wont throw. Headbutt with Popo and then tilt with Nana again. this must be done fast because with each hit you get more time you can hold your opponent. This can be done all the way to 999% damage.

(Very simular to one above...) Grab with Popo and headbutt. Then D-Tilt with Nana making sure not to push down to much on the control stick so that Popo wont throw. Headbutt with Popo and then D-Tilt with Nana again. this must be done fast because with each hit you get more time you can hold your opponent. This can be done all the way to 999% damage.

One of the most popular and cooler, pun intended, is using the Blizzard with Nana while Popo bashes away with his forehead. Fun times can be had with this. Using this in conjuction with the infinite has no real advantage aside from looking really cool. This is also a great way to DeSynch the Climbers and you're safe while doing it.

The Chain Grab is sorta difficult at first. I still have issues with it. It dosnt work to well on floatier characters such as Samus and the Baloon characters. Grab with Popo, beat the opponent up for a bit, D-Throw, SHD-Air with Nana. This will knock your opponent right back in front of you for another grab. Repeat. Take note that your opponent can DI behind you or a bit in front of you. But like any other Chain Grab you gotta know when to move foward or turn around to continue with you combo.

(Another way to do the Chain Grab...) This way will prove to be harder then using the D-Air. Grab with Popo, beat the opponent up for a bit, D-Throw, SHF-Air with Nana. This will knock your opponent right back in front of you for another grab. Repeat. This way your opponent can't really DI as much and wont give you as much trouble in the same respects as the prior example of the Chain Grab.

Grab Combo Finishers.
Instead of throwing your opponent with the joystick, use the C-Stick. This will have Nana do a smash attack in the direction that your are throwing. I favor a D-Smash ovet the rest but they all work. Nana will either make contact before Popo has a chance to release or will attack just after the throw. At times you may miss your opponent all together but this is rare.

A Grab Combo I like to do just because it looks complex is to start off with the Blizzard combo, go into infinate, and end it with a D-Throw into a Nana U-Tilt followed by with a Popo F-Smash, U-Smash, or an U-air.

In the end all I can tell you to do is practice these and look for more. The Ice Climbers are so complex that there is always more to explore and to test out.

8:
Glitches. Where to start? The Ice Climbers have many glitches. Most of which are illegal.

Illegal: (IC glitch freeze)-Within grabbing range turn and grab at the same time and Nana will grab the opponent when she swings the hammer to throw them have Popo do a hammer squall. This will freeze the character and cannot be moved except by a throw. If you do an Ice move afterwards you can freeze them in ice and they will not come out. You will not be able to throw them at this point and they will be stuck this way until the match is reset.

Legal: (Flaming Nana)-Grab yourself a Fireflower and give it to Nana. You can have Nana pick it upherself or you can jump and press Z in the air. This will make Popo pass it on to Nana. Press A and when Nana begins using the Fireflower then press Down B. Nana will stay frozen and continue this forever while Popo can fight on freely. This can only be done in version 0.00.

Legal: (Moonwalking Nana)-This is hard to describe and can be preformed several ways. One way is to dash dance and then wave dash backwards. This will make Nana do a walking animation but move backwards to catch up to you.

9:
DeSynching can be hard at first but will be handy later. This will allow you to use Popo and Nana at different times. An easy way to tell if you are DeSynched is to spam some Ice Blocks. Normally they come right after another, but if your DeSynched it will happen differently. The spacing should be altered so that they alternate more evenly then normal. This can be use to gang up and combo your opponent all on your own or to keep one Climber covered while the other charges an attack.

The most common way of doing it is to Dodge with Popo and then do the Blizzard with Nana.

You can also DeSynch the same way as above but with an ice block.

The easiest way to DeSynch is to grab your opponent and as you throw them, Blizzard with Nana.

Once DeSynched you can drag Nana. What I mean is you can have Nana Charge up a Smash and while she's doing so run at your opponent. Nana will follow you but be charging her Smash attack all the way. You can also do this with the Blizzard which in return is a good setup for a Popo Smash.

There are way to many things that you can do while DeSynched so I'll leave it to you to master and explore the possibilities.

10:
Final Thoughts about the Ice Climbers.
They take alot of practice to master, but are fun as anything to play around with. Nana can get you fustrated easily with she decides to be stupid. To play them you must have patients and not get over aggressive in an attempt to catch up. Play conservitivly.

If Popo is left on his own make sure to focus on Smashes. They are strong even without Nana and can rack up the damage fast. The knockback can be a lifesaver aswell.

This is my first Guide and any suggestions and/or critiques are welcomed.

Please forgive any spelling error since I dont have a proper word prossessor.

Oh and whats up with my "Title Banner"? The img tags seem to be down.

Thanks!!!

Yeah, very very detailed and easy to understand. I'd like to know more about their ground game, though, like what other strategies besides wavedashing and grabbing...which is what my game consists mainly of...and also when is best to desynch and other more advanced stuff...

Yeah, the IC's strongest point is to grab, combo then smash. but I'll update the guide and add some other strats when I collect enough information. I've also been working on another (semi)infinite combo with the parka twins. I'm not quite sure if its DIable but a LvL9 CF can't escape it... which isnt saying much... I'm guessing its not since I havent seen it on the boards or in any matches. but then again perhaps I've actually found something new. well, heres hoping.

How often does it happen to you that Nana Dies and Popo is left alive?

Yeah, the thing about the IC's is that they're pretty light, and Nana can't do **** by herself, except for the occasional smash, which can actually be pretty handy. But if you have to decide between saving Nana, and going for the kill, go for the kill. Saving Nana can be not only difficult if you have an enemy impeding you, but it can be ultimately pointless if once you recover your opponent smashes the **** out of you. You should be able to fend pretty well with one IC. Just don't get too agressive. Your recovery power isn't as strong, and neither are your attacks, so wait for your opportunities. Against fast fallers you can grab them, down throw them, and fsmash them to finish that off. This gives you some breathing room while showing your opponent you still mean business.

this may seem like a stupid question to you. but i really have no idea:

how can a character with an infinite damage combo be mid-high tier?

This is a really nice guide, and has made me want to pick up the Ice Climbers after reading this. I like how you don't go too far in depth as to confuse new players, but give enough information for the player to explore and practice their own strategies. I gotta start practicing those grab techniques as they sound pretty nasty, however I don't think I'm doing the infinite grab right, as the computer seems to get out of it at around 50%. I do the d-tilt infinite, and maybe I should just try f-tilt.
If you get that new infinite move to work out successfully, could you please add it to this guide.

Ice.gif

Very nice. I little shorter than I would've wanted, but you cover the important parts very well.

As for why a mid-high tier person with very high damaging grab comboes is so low on the list is because (1) they weren't all that popular up until a little while ago (2) you have to actually grab them, and most people know that the IC need the grab to do well

Once I get a new copy of Melee I'll start playing IC again.

You should all PM M3D and tell him to un-ban me. I could contribute so much to this if the ip ban was taken off my school.

While the guide is written in a nice simple format that is very easy to understand, I feel the desync section could use a little more explanation.

Though I don't usually play the climbers unless I draw them in a random fun match, I do enjoy wasting time just playing with various desync things they can do.


So this is what I've determined (please correct me if I am wrong):

Dysyncing is easiest to perform by having a B attack (ice blocks or blizzard) held down before either climber finishes a spot dodge or a roll.

Other things Nana can do out of these animations while popo stays standing and idle (though I haven't usually found this as useful):

Grab (Hold Z)
single hit neutral A (hold a)
tilt (hold a then tilt a direction)
smash (smash normally using direction+A, hold A to charge smash)
Short hop (Hold Up on the stick. I haven't had reliable luck with a jump button yet. I have NOT comfirmed if she can do useful attacks from this, but from memory I don't think she can attack at all)



This can also be done, as UnderDog said, from a grab with -any- move, but for maximum effect, nana should be starting her attack animation just as popo is finishing so popo has the maximum time to act. The down throw to blizzard chain throw is an excellent example of this.


I'd also like to point out how useful their projectile ice blocks can actually be, thanks to desyncing. To use it, simply desync in the way you choose and hold B before the animation ends. Nana will do an ice block as soon as she is able. From there, you can start a rhythm of B taps so the climbers start alternating the ice cube spam.

There's more to it then just alternating the ice cubes, however. You can mix it up a little bit and change the spacing between the cubes as you do it. This can really mess up characters trying to jump over your cubes to close in. Fox, Falco, Marth, Luigi, and the bigger characters like Ganon seem to struggle with closing in on the climbers when they do this, particularly if you can mix up the timing.

This is more of a mind game then a damage dealing tactic, however. Use it to force your opponent into settling themself up to be hit by a better attack or even grabbed. We all know what happens when the climbers grab you :D




Blizzard interception:

I first saw this on a Japanese vid of IC vs. Roy. The climber player desynced nana into a blizzard with a spot dodge as roy was dashing in. Roy of course got hit by the blizzard and popo was able to grab him and combo him as a follow up.

This can work against a variety of characters, depending on how they like to come at you. It has the potential to catch people out of shffl'd air moves, thanks to the great reach, including marth if he botches his FF timing.



Random other things that come to mind:

Having a long wavedash is GREAT for mind games. The ice climbers can vary the distance they wavedash by how close the stick is to down (short) to how close it is left/right (longest).

The Foward Air seems to have the best results 'spiking' when the target is directly under the climber's feet, rather then the hammer.

Try wavedashing/desyncing for yourself on ALL stages. Some of them seem to lag Nana in wierd ways, such as doing a full jump instead of following Popo in a wavedash (Kongo Jungle is a good example of this).





I hope these lil tidbits can be of some use.

Hopefully soon I will be able to release my trick vid. I'm moving to WA and I'm gonna get a job and buy a vcr or something so I can make a vid to put on the hub.

You will all like it very much... :qblock: :newbie: :qblock: -or- The Man???

Now I wanna play IC more than Falco. The guide was really descriptive and made me want to be IC. I would if i had my game, which is coming back Thurs., and a major fight Fri.(one day for last training O_o). Sorry, I'm just a bit paranoid right now. But hopefully, if I can remember this post Saturday, I WILL START AS IC. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GIVING ME IC. MY CAPS LOCK IS STUck, oh, there it goes. lol...

but yeah, very good guide (can't find as good a falco guide as this...)

Man Im beginning to feel that Ice Climbers might end up to be my 2nd best characters next to Samus. Their infinite owns once you get it down.:D

The infinite is much MUCH harder to pull off mid battle then you may think. First of all you have to actually -grab- your opponent. A decent player is going to at least expect the climbers to want to grab them, and be on their guard for it.

The next trouble is nana being in a good spot to start it. Sure, walking up to someone and firing it up in training mode is a piece of cake... but what about when Nana is across the level when you grab? Or if she slides past the foe as you grab, throwing off the timing enough for you to not pull it off.


It's still easier then fox's infinite, no doubt... but it's a bit more situational, particularly at low % because nana usually super lagged or not even close to you when you do get a chance to grab someone. :\


Edit:

Most people probably know this, but I thought I would say it anyway. The infinite is in no way an "I win" attack. If it was, everyone would abuse it to sickening levels to the point that ice climbers would be the only good counter for an infinite grab ice climber.

i dont get how u can control both popo and nana's attacks while desynced, if popo is just running around and you hit do down smash, popo is gonna do it, so....just someone please explain this?

while desynched you input commands faster than the climbers can do them by themselves, while popo does a dsmash you input a fsmash and nana does it because she is doing nothing, them input, say down b and popo does a blizzard b/c he's just finished his dsmash (of course then nana is obligated to do a blizzard at the first instant possible for her, but its still later than it would be if she wasn't desynched)*
Basically you desynch, then all of a sudden you are playing smash with two different players at one time IFF you keep your pace of inputs faster than just nana or popo could handle alone(brain explodes).
Ice Climbers are an awesome character because of this, and I've got my friend wondering why they arent ranked higher since i started recently playing them.
Also this room has many topics on this subject, just search around and you'll get the picture(thats why you didnt get a response).
Hope that helped

*assuming you pick their starting costume or the green one

Sticking this topic. This is a good introduction for new people looking to pick up the shivering siblings .

On the topic of colors... you should really leave them as the default. Not everyone uses the same skin (I use RPG because it's much brighter on my monitor). Your light blue is impossible to read with this skin. Just a suggestion.

Something small to contribute.

The forward air spikes when you are below the opponent hitting with the very top of the half crescent swing. Much less applicable than being above your opponent but it should still be awknowledged.

I'm working on a master guide now. one that I should'nt have to update, ever, lol. I was gonna mention that aswell FalseFalco due to the added D-Throw>F-Air(>D-Smash if not near the edge), Spike off the edge combo. My second Infinite combo I found wont be added until I'm certain its a true infinite, (going to 999% against a human player.

And yes colors have been changed now.

Can I make a request for a chart (or something) that lists which chainthrows work on which characters? It'd help me a bunch. Thanks in advance

Amazing guid man!! But with that infinite when you tilt with Nana then what exactly happens? Cause I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.Seeing how the computer comes out of it.

Thanks for the guide! I constantly reread this so I can remember Icy's techniques

Awsome guide very clear understandable. Do you think you could add something about l-cancelling in there? Anyway great guide and very handy, looking forward to reading more of your work. Thanks!

After practicing the chain grab with the SHF-Air with Nana, i've noticed that it's a bit easier and leaves a speck of more room for error on timing, if you hold forward right after you leave the ground. (assuming you're using the c-stick to fair)

Ohhh I just noticed something... When Chu used to hammer squall to get back on the stage, his side+b would go alot farther than mine for some strange reason.... So I just discovered that when hammersqualling, u need to tap "b" rapidly in order to get the most out of the move's recovery potential...

Yes, I'm sure y'all noticed that ages ago T_T

Hmm good guide, but when I try to infinite the way you said (headbutt, tilt, headbutt, tilt) even if I tilt the control stick the SLIGHTEST BIT Popo will throw... what am I doing wrong here?

Don't know, you can usually just slightly tilt it, but theres an easy way around it. Just smash forward or down when you grab and keep it there, and during the grab if you hold the stick still, he won't throw, and Nana will still be doing the d/f-tilt. It's kinda like holding down on the control stick when you plug in your controller, except only temporary. Just make sure you don't roll . And this is for Z.


And yes, spamming the b during the squall goes farther, so you can rest knowing that it was already known.

Sideem Slingh said:

Don't know, you can usually just slightly tilt it, but theres an easy way around it. Just smash forward or down when you grab and keep it there, and during the grab if you hold the stick still, he won't throw, and Nana will still be doing the d/f-tilt. It's kinda like holding down on the control stick when you plug in your controller, except only temporary. Just make sure you don't roll . And this is for Z.


And yes, spamming the b during the squall goes farther, so you can rest knowing that it was already known.

Click to expand...

You can push down or over during a headbutt too, it won't make Popo do the throw.