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Guide CunningKitsune's Guide to Ace Arwing Pilot Fox McCloud

CunningKitsune

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
747
Location
Saint John, IN
Last edited:

ArC_man

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 14, 2003
Messages
531
Location
Irvine, CA
wow.. this thing is huge... i unno how good it is (havent read yet) but i just wanna give props to ya for all that work (ill have to read this soemtime else.. when i have more time ;))
 

Rainy Day Toast

Stays Crunchy in Milk
BRoomer
Joined
Aug 10, 2003
Messages
2,121
Too many words. Cut out all the useless crap, unless you think it's critical for a Fox player to know exactly how quickly Fox can use the Fire Flower.

Otherwise, I skimmed it, but the information seems mostly accurate, I guess.

I suppose the guide's fine, but this would be more helpful if it were posted at GameFAQs or something, I think. I'm not sure you're telling many people here anything new. If your guide finds it necessary to mention that Fox's blaster doesn't stun, well... Yeah. Probably won't find much audience here.

Good work all the same. Sorry I'm such a *****.

By the way, regarding your thanks to the mods... the mods and staff do not rank characters. The MBR members do (among whom, of course, are some of the mods and staff).

Yeah.
 

Nic64

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
1,725
I didn't read all of it, but pretty good from what I did read. I didn't really learn anything because Fox is already my best character(tied w/Marth)...but this should be really useful for newbies, and then they're usually the ones who'd need a guide anyway ;\ some of the statistical information is a little excessive however. I thought the amount of work put into the shine section was good, the best down B in the game does need a lot of space to fully explain its usefulness so that I did not think was excessive. gj on the whole.
 

GanondorfMan33

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2004
Messages
55
Location
Colorado
WOW! I guess I'm the first person to read it all. And I must say, that is by far the best guide I have ever seen. It makes me want to play Fox forever. Because of your guide I'm gonna learn Fox if its the last thing i do! It took me 25 Mins to read that but I have to say it was worth it. Great Job!1
 

FoxsAxis

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
72
Location
Homewood, IL
Well done. Its been a while but a descent guide to Fox and I think Shmooguy's needed a rest.

P.S. Yes I did read it. Thnx for saying KiTsUnE :p

P.P.S. RDT, maybe you should read the guide before saying things like, "too many words". cmon...=/
 

MistyIRC

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
126
Actually, I was the first to read it all through, lol X)

Good guide though.
 

CunningKitsune

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
747
Location
Saint John, IN
Thanks, guys

Your responses so far have been great; I'm glad to see this is getting noticed. And it looks like I've moved GanondorfMan33 to take up Fox. Glad to hear it!
 

GanondorfMan33

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2004
Messages
55
Location
Colorado
Fox Is Hard

Dang! Fox is hard to learn. You're Guide is really helping though! I get him down someday! Just wanted to say again gr8t guide.
 

ssbmon396

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
51
Location
Panama City, Florida
Nice guide indeedy. I don't know why I never play Fox, I can short-hop with him well and l-cancel and all that good stuff. I guess I'll start playing as him... :p
 

FoxsAxis

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
72
Location
Homewood, IL
I thought it was pretty thorough. Mow, tell us what you think was missing. :confused: It might help CunningKitsune to add things he may have missed.
 

jv3x3

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
2,093
**** that **** is elaborate... but wow, its actually pretty good too. Much better than the average guide, very impressed, after i actually sit down it read the whole thing it quite possibley might get u a backroom recommendation

Mow pm
 

Mario's Cape

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 17, 2004
Messages
133
Location
Rio Grand Valley , Tx
WOW! Im pretty impress of what you wrote there. Im sorry to say that much of this information is pretty useless to us since this game is life to us. I mean, maybe stuff like this you should start thinking about becoming a reporter or something to do with gaming. This work you did on fox would awasome information for a newbie. Other than that excellent job


You gotta dodge to survive
 

TheKnee

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
28
Nice,
One of the best guides on here. As a person who picked up the game only last summer, I do get some useful information out of guides, especially one as detailed and in-depth as this one. The good English makes it easier to read, also! I have a friend who plays a decent fox, he just needs to learn some shine combos to become good/great. He's abroad in New Zealand right now, but I'll point him to this guide when he gets back!
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Jv3x3: gotcha, I won't do it here either. Don't worry about the shine thing below, even the 'good' Fox players can't do what I'm talking about. Heck, I can barely do it for more than a minute :p

well it's just a few small things, nothing game winning I suppose.

I don't feel like going all the way through it (it was indeed very thorough, and huge :)) so I'll just list some randoms stuff.

The second jab moves him forward a small step. It's not too bad of an idea to just keep doing the double jab like the computer does. But if you mix in shine to WD or random grabs, it makes it very annoying. Kamaal does this with Luigi, but substitue shine to WD with 'Fire Punch' >_< I'm glad that you stressed the use of the first jab as a combo move, that's very true. I love random stuff like jab to downsmash, just as much as I know alot of you do.

And the ftilt....yes it's spammed by noob. But you know why? Because it WORKS. Ftilt itself is a REALLY good move, if you look at it. It works like Marth's sword in the fat that it's fast, beats stuff out by range and priority, and LEAVES NO HOLES. Since it can be directed, but only 2 of the 3 are useful. The mid height has the best range, and most characters can't use their CC to defend it, as it pushes them too far away. Thus, ftilt to grab is a good way to get around CC whores like Samus. Ftilt also screws ledge hangers over. If they get up, just roll, attack, fall to WD, fall to attack....you kick them. Unless you're against Zelda's death kick or Marth's fair, you SHOULD be able to get around it. Roy's isn't good enough, and you can outrange the rest, even Sheik. If they air dodge, you miss, so what. Turn around and upsmash. Also, if you aim it down, it will keep opponent from grabbing the edge. Thanks to this, Fox largely does NOT have to edgehog. But there are a few exceptions, Mewtwo, Sheik, Zelda. Of course, it's still fun to edgehog too, so use it as you want :p

Downsmash does the same thing. Prevents many edge grabs. It's not just for another Fox or Falco. I dunno, just random crap like that.

You also missed a style: Counter
Fox's speed gives you wonderful ability to simply counter stuff. This isn't a Control variety either. I mean you just stand there and don't move and play SOLID defense. Maybe a few blaster hops but nothing close to be considered spamming. Also, you can just sit there holding the deflector. You CAN hop, jump, grab, WD, upsmash, or even do another shine out of it. If you're bold, you can hop and air dodge down or triangle jump too. This style is perhaps a little better for Falco because of the laser stun and his added range, but there's no reason why Fox can't use it.

Your infinates are a bit wrong, BTW. Drillshine is hop, drill, l cancel, shine, WD, repeat. This will only take you across a flat stage, not back. The Inverse as Mofo created it, you don't WD to the character, you WD PAST the character on the other side so when you come out of the drill, the shine will knock them the other way. In this way, you can go back and forth across the screen as you please. The way I created the Inverse, you don't WD to the other side, you DI to the other side during the Drill. In Mofo's way, it's harder, and Fox will only go 9 ft, because that's how far his WD goes. In my way, it's easier because you only have to steer over a little during the drill animation (because no matter what direction you press, the attack will take the direction you initially give it). Also, my Inverse version will go 11 ft, as he can gain up to 2 ft in the air, even from the hop. This 11 ft opens up many new windows to who you can actually infinate, the ever dreaded Sheik and Ganondorf. Yes, you can infinate Sheik, just not with the Waveshine, you actually HAVE to drill. Most people think that shinewave and drillshine victims are one in the same, but neglect the Ganon and Sheik 10 ft slide.

You also missed a (pointless but fun) infinate that only works on Peach, Link, and Zelda. AS Mofo showed me, you can WD to the other side of the opponent. So on these 3 characters, you can completely skip the drill. Shine, WD to the other side, repeat. You just go back and forth with the shine REALLY quick. Guaranteed to get you punched in the face :)

EDIT: Yeah, Fox is IMO the hardest character to master. But the infinates won't give you some sort of auto-win. I'm one of the few Fox players willing to use them during battle, and I have several clever ways of defensively landing a shine to start them. But I'm not 'good' by any means, ask the people here on the boards that I've played against. Technical skill will only take you so far.
 

SilvenswordsmanX

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
699
Location
Brooklyn ,NY
I skimmed the guide, skipped all the technical stuff and noticed you didnt mention a really cool combo thats almost inescapable at 0%. I know its simple but its real fun and there are two ways to do it...

Up throw then fire fox(it will work on NE1 except jiggs) the character will go so low it will still be in your area so when you firefox the flames will juggle the character and the sweet part is...even if the guy DI's out of it hes gonna get hit by the thrust cuz you can control where it goes no matter where the guy DI's.

OR you can downthrow then firefox, more risky due to teching...thats all

*Umm and no I dont need NE1 to tell me thats old or whatever im just recommending it for him in his version 2 of this guide, if he ever considers making another version.
 

Qwester

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
1,821
Location
Scotland, UK
silven, why use firefox when you can just juggle with utilt or upsmash?

EDIT:
btw, I've added this guide to my site, see sig for details.

Thanks CunningKitsune
 

Peaches

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
1,269
Well, one thing that'll do is aggravate some players, and this usually makes them play more predictably or worse. Even if it is rather stupid and pointless.

BTW, nice guide. It might finally push me off my Sheik as my fast player. Probably become my secondary or tertiary
 

SilvenswordsmanX

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
699
Location
Brooklyn ,NY
I tell you guys, this is just for play with most people but for me it works all the time. Test it out yourself and see. Im not saying anyone has to actually use it. i'd just recommend adding it to kitsune's guide cuz its pretty neat if u ask me. why make on type of guide for one type of play when you can add different styles and different opening attacks like the one i just mentioned.
 

CunningKitsune

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
747
Location
Saint John, IN
Nice additions, guys

Heh, it seems I did manage to miss a few things despite the hugeness of my guide. I am indeed preparing a second version of this guide updated with the things I missed thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread. Thanks also to Mow for pointing out the slip-ups in the infinites, among other things; I'll get around to working that stuff in. I myself am not really an infinite-oriented Fox. I like to stick to his brutal shuffling game and, of course, the numerous other uses of his shine.

EDIT: SilvenswordsmanX does have a point; Fox has numerous play styles, and I certainly don't expect this guide to cater to one play style. Looks like more additions are in order!
 

Qwester

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
1,821
Location
Scotland, UK
YES, it's a possible combo, but it just leaves you too open, after the firebird for my liking, the entire part where your falling with no way of shielding/dodging just isn't my idea of a good move. I may be wrong.
 

SilvenswordsmanX

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
699
Location
Brooklyn ,NY
NO QWESTER you read it wrong...I mean wherever the guy tries to DI out(either left or right) thats where you thrust your firefox, no SANE person would thrust upward. If you thrust left or right the guy will get hit no matter where he DIs and you are gonna be down the road while the guy is falling from the hit which basically puts you in "SAFE" stance.



*If only I can get a video of it. One with DI left another with DI right and the last with no DI, it always works.Thats why its so neat.
 

Qwester

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
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ok ok ok, calm down. Should you happen to miss them however, they can tech and hit you on your way down. Personally I just find that tilt up a's or upsmashes or even up aerials depending on the percentage work better as they can possibly be chained rather than finshing what could be another couple of hits in a combo.
 

nezogib

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 14, 2004
Messages
90
Location
somewhere in California
Nice guide!
I just started attempting to play fox about a week ago and I have a question about his down throw

Sometimes when i use it near an edge the character goes straight down and is unable to recover/move and they die. Is this normal or is it a glitch?

Also is there an easy way to do an up tilt without jumping or doing an up-smash?
(My controller's analog stick is a little wiggly so i have to push it up quite a bit before it is detected.)
 

bluelion20

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 15, 2003
Messages
961
That's completely normal. But its not a reliable tactic, because you can tech roll out of it pretty easily, and it doesn't work all the time anyway. As for your controller, it really shouldn't take much, this game is very sensitive. Just a little tilt should be able to do it. If its really not working, you just have to move it up there slow to prevent jumping, and quickly press the a button to make sure it doesn't smash.
 

MistyIRC

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
126
Originally posted by nezogib
Sometimes when i use it near an edge the character goes straight down and is unable to recover/move and they die. Is this normal or is it a glitch?

Also is there an easy way to do an up tilt without jumping or doing an up-smash?
(My controller's analog stick is a little wiggly so i have to push it up quite a bit before it is detected.)
That's a normal part of the dthrow. Not reliable but extremely effective.

For uptilt, you just have to get used to the tilt... It's tricky but worth it, some characters have excellent utilts, and Fox's is pretty good.
 

SilvenswordsmanX

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
699
Location
Brooklyn ,NY
ok ok ok, calm down. Should you happen to miss them however, they can tech and hit you on your way down. Personally I just find that tilt up a's or upsmashes or even up aerials depending on the percentage work better as they can possibly be chained rather than finshing what could be another couple of hits in a combo.
*Sighs* Why even bother anymore... I need to just get a vid of this being done
 

Evil Sacrafice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
491
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I said stop looking AT ME
Dude, thanks Cunning. Though... there was alot not needed there like RDT said, I mean I printed out the whole thing to read and play, and a nice 33 pages it came out to after cutting some out. Nice little booklet really. Whole punched it and everything, now Fox has become my second best character in a matter of 2 days because the way you described how to do almost everything in extreme detail.

I'm like telling everyone to read this who wants to play fox.
 

Tyco

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
568
Location
On planet Earth
I've been ok with Fox ever since the SSB64. I definitly learned new information and keep up the good work. You should post this FAQ on game FAQs if you haven't already:)
 
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