Joysticks... I've tried them all. I'm presenting a better solution.

We can go down the list of alternatives:

- the coveted $70 Hori Mini Pad

-the "tape trick" (it was worth a shot, right?)

- buy these replacements: http://www.nintendorepairshop.com/products/34-Nintendo-64-
N64/1821-N64-Controller-Thumbstick-Repair-Part---New---GC-style/ (these don't
work well at all for Smash! Lag and short range-of-motion makes power moves next to
impossible)

-buy crappy 3rd party controller, corrupt your game saves

-buy less crappy Tomee brand controller, continue corrrupting game saves

-wire and mount a wii/gc stick into a crappy 3rd party controller

-wire, mount, and-program-a-microcontroller-for a wii/gc joystick into an OEM controller
(a la kylejw, et. al... http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39024)





If you're like me, you've tried all or nearly all of the above options. I've been tearing apart my 64 pads since I was 13. My personal favorite was the last fix I listed. I purchased a pair from kylejw, and one of them still works.

I set out to make my own Wii --> N64 controllers. After several months of experimenting with and bricking several controllers, I have streamlined a way to install Wii classic controller joysticks in OEM N64 controllers without making any electrical modifications or additions. Mine is strictly a mechanical fix.

The TL;DR of what I do is basically dremeling, cutting, and lots and lots of gluing of very small mechanical pieces. It cost me many joysticks learning how to glue such tiny moving pieces and still keep them moving free yet strong.

Anyway, today I finished my sixth non-prototype controller. I've got a system down, and a big box full of used N64 controllers to keep me busy. I'm currently waiting on another shipment of Wii controllers to cannibalize.

I'd love to make a guide for everyone to make these. Beware, though, It took me several hours to make one my first time, and even that was after I garbage-glued several of them. In the meantime, right after these finish the testing phase ( ), I'll be selling the ones I make. I'll put them on youtube here soon.

The one issue some may have with my controllers is that I decided to leave the octagonal gate out, to achieve maximum range-of-motion. It doesn't impede their performance, and frankly it makes the process of building them much faster.

I've got a price range in mind, but I'd like to hear some early feedback on what they'd be worth to you, and what you think of the project i general.

Also, since there is glue involved, inevitably there will be worries about breakage. So whatever I do sell will have a 30 money back guarantee, you just pay to ship it back. I'm confident in the sturdyness of these sticks, you can crank pretty hard on them although it's something I try to avoid and wouldn't recommend. I use a "plastic welder" epoxy that is drillable and sandable. It's insanely strong, and I use insane amounts of it. Just don't throw it against a wall and it should be fine. But yes, with my current design one could push hard enough in any direction to pop the joystick off (in theory). I did experiment some with torquing the entire apparatus down with steel wire in addition to the glue, with moderate success. It took a lot longer than I anticipated though and seemed to be overkill, so it's not part of the final design. One of my early prototypes used onlly super glue, which eventually broke free in the heat of a goldeneye match. This epoxy stuff is a different story. I'm letting ordinary folks test these to see if they hold up. EDIT: see my glue test videos further down in the thread

UPDATE 9/26/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bygwvI0S-DU&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk2n-Auee90&feature=plcp (sorry, still no smash)

Accepting orders.
90 day warranty for malfunction/breakage, 30 days for any reason at all.

See more details in the next post:

UPDATE:

Here are my current prices, excluding shipping:

stick,no controller...$35 (save on shipping?)
Gray......................... $35 (I have lots of these)
Green...................... $38
Blue..........................$38
Black........................$41
Red..........................$43 (only have one or two of these)
Light clear purple..$43
clear green.............$45 (I only have one)
dark clear purple...$45 (I only have one)

Paypal accepted.
$5 DISCOUNT for bitcoin, dwolla, USD cash, and cashier's check payments.



(Let me know what you think about what is fair for the color differences, I priced them based on how many I have of each)

Why are sticks and gray controllers the same price? A controller with no stick is useless to me. To date I have not bought sticks seperately from controllers. It's simply an opportunity to save on shipping if you don't want to have your old controllers lying around gathering dust and would rather fix them.

Many of these have scuffs,etc from normal usage.

I'll refund $4 flat for every OEM controller you send me, just make sure it functions electronically and isn't all beat up. If you only buy the stick, I will refund you the same $4 for every stick you send me up to the quantity purchased. After that, or if you buy a controller, I can refund $2 per stick .

I'll also take off for each of these games you send me. Just thought I'd through it out there...
Banjo Kazooie -- $8
Banjo Tooie -- $13
Mario Golf -- $5
Winback --$ 5
All-Star Baseball 2001 -- $4
Mortal Kombat 4 -- $7
Ridge Racer --$ 5
Conker's Bad Fur Day -- $30

Interested. What would the price be like?

I'd be interested

I had somewhere in the ballpark of $30 in mind. I've been trying to get some webcam shots/videos, but I've been having some trouble with Flash. Also, Bitcoins accepted/preferred. I may put one up on ebay soon as well. Price is going to be based on demand, because my cheap source for controllers is growing thin. hope this thread doesn't sound like a bunch of empty promises, ha. I've been wanting to make this thread here for so long now.

I'm also aware that many of you do a lot of emulation. I'm not setup right now for testing to see which controllers will plug into those cheap USB converters, because I'm using Ubuntu at the moment. I do plan to differentiate the price between USB-ready controllers and all the others.

Sorry to triple post, but add this to that list I made:

http://www.shapeways.com/model/373538/n64-joystick-links.html

I bought four sets of these, and I was very disappointed. I was excited at the possiblity of not having to go through all this dremel business for a decent way to play N64 games, but my hopes were in vain. You can read my comment there in the link. They almost worked, but then didn't. I wasn't crazy about Shapeways' vinyl material either.

ill post to prevent you quadruple posting and being unreasonably infracted tii many times

if it matters, i would be very interested if i lived in the US and still played a bunch

Made a little video showing one of these guys in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKRlQY5hwK4

Now are you sure these will hold up , you keep testing things with goldeneye and it has no where near the amount of mashing that smash 64 does.

Wintergreen said:

Now are you sure these will hold up , you keep testing things with goldeneye and it has no where near the amount of mashing that smash 64 does.

Click to expand...

Actually, I chose Perfect Dark for the video because it's very easy to show the sensitivity, etc. with the crosshairs. Real testing is done on Smash, NHL 99, and Mario Tennis. Those games have lots of hard motion back and forth on both the x and y axis. FPSs and especially racing games put very little strain on joysticks.

So far, so good. Just finished a game of NHL 99 with a friend. I am pretty confident that they will hold up, but no I'm not 100% certain. That's why I'm testing them right now.

A gate around the joystick restricting movement would completely eliminate any chance of a dislodge. My original plan was to have one, but now I don't think it'll be necessary.

Would wintergreen or anyone else be interested in testing one of the controllers and writing a review? The controller would be yours to keep.

Can you post pics of the glue job inside the unit or is it proprietary?

No it's not really proprietary. I made a video to test the strength.

This is a build from a few days ago where I screwed up a couple things. You can see a snippet of the optical sensor board clinging to the corner. I popped it off to make this video but couldn't get it off in one piece because I glue them down. Also, note that a couple of other key parts are missing here. there isn't a gear turning the Y axis wheel, but that isn't a piece that receives any stress. Actually, to align them with the wheel cogs, I just barely tack them on with a tiny dot of super glue and make sure it will still roll freely before I lay on the epoxy. If the tack breaks, it never deserved to be epoxied.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMfE1UHKz9s

I fully expected it to break at some point, but as you can see the actual stick bends and the cap flies off before the glue breaks. This video was the very first time I did this. By the end of it the stick is soft from the first two stresses and the cap flies off easier.

Damn, I'd love to try one out.

This is the epoxy stuff I use:

http://www.truevalue.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=10357

I'd buy one if I wasn't a convert to the one true faith of the hori mini pad

SuPeRbOoM said:

Damn, I'd love to try one out.

Click to expand...

If I don't hear back from Wintergreen or any of the other previous (established) posters in this thread by the end of the day, you can be my tester if you live in the US and write a review. A video review would be much appreciated too.

Any suggestions about the foam? I'm considering switching it to spandex, or cut-up pieces of surgical gloves. The foam will probably become crumbly over time.

Any suggestions about lubrication of the Wii components? I don't know how long these things stay stiff in the wild, since I pretty much stick to retro gaming. They were lubricated some already when I received them, which is a step up from the original 64 stick. I considered using silicone-based and teflon-based lubricant, but I went with powdered graphite. I also considered butter. Not sure how fatty grease or petroleum grease would interact with the plastic. I really don't want these things to get floppy.

I did another glue test, this time with a screwdriver for leverage. Sorry for all these lame webcam videos; I can't tell left from right in them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjkDqQ_KgNU

This is the second cut of Test 2, the first time I accidentally clicked out of the window.

I am pleasantly surprised by how well these hold together. The screwdriver was actually bending before scraping loose. I also bent the black plastic case in several places, which is still visible.

I'm seriously going to have to cut that joystick out of there if I want to use it again.

I would be interested. If you go through with this,would we be getting random controller colors?
/could we send in our own?

tacos said:

I would be interested. If you go through with this,would we be getting random controller colors?
/could we send in our own?

Click to expand...

No, right now I have grey, blue, green, black, clear purple, and red. Yes, you could totally send your own in.

It looks like I am going through with this, using this design. I'll be ready to sell some in a couple of days, assuming everything goes as planned.

For plastic on plastic I would use Tamiya ceramic grease.

Elzevir said:

For plastic on plastic I would use Tamiya ceramic grease.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll look it up.

badair said:

If I don't hear back from Wintergreen or any of the other previous (established) posters in this thread by the end of the day, you can be my tester if you live in the US and write a review. A video review would be much appreciated too.

Click to expand...

I live in Canada.

I'm very used to the 64 controller, so like, I can compare differences on what is easier/harder on certain techniques for smash etc.

SuPeRbOoM said:

I live in Canada.

I'm very used to the 64 controller, so like, I can compare differences on what is easier/harder on certain techniques for smash etc.

Click to expand...

Check your PMs

I'm sending one to SuperBoom for reviewing. I have three others that I'm ready to sell, with more on the way.

Here's another video that shows exactly what goes on inside:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXfXk8EmIqM

I did some experimenting with the OEM gate, bezel, or whatever you want to call it. I also went ahead and drilled a hole through the OEM stick, heated it to make it soft, and pushed it onto the Wii stick. I was able to get it straight up and down too; the video doesn't do that justice. I was able to make the bezel cut clean and round right underneath the edge of the octagon (the second time around). Here's the result of the past hour:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn4i7NXgBA8

Sorry for all these terrible webcam videos.

EDIT: here's a picture of a better one I just finished. http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...g (88.72 KB)&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13485325060121

Wow that's a long url.

I'm not sure if I would be able to make these consistently without losing parts due to mistakes, but if I were to go this route they'd probably be worth more than 30 dollars to me. That just about doubles my labor time. Just saying.

Thoughts?

this is very interesting. Im excited for Boom's review.

Boom's controller get's shipped out tomorrow. It's the updated version with the octagonal gate and oem thumbstick head.

Just got back from the post office. Customs needed a name, so I just wrote down Super Boom. Hope that works.

suspicious name for a package

SuPeRbOoM said:

suspicious name for a package

Click to expand...

lmao

nice knowin ya

lol well if you need any other testers we play every day and are always looking for innovative controller upgrades (have tried the hori, replacement sticks, etc) and would love to be able to try this controller. Would also be more than willing to write a detailed review.

mikeduncan23 said:

lol well if you need any other testers we play every day and are always looking for innovative controller upgrades (have tried the hori, replacement sticks, etc) and would love to be able to try this controller. Would also be more than willing to write a detailed review.

Click to expand...

Hi Mike!

Very cool, I'm not really looking for more than one freebie review though. Thanks though!

2 improvements to be made to future controllers:

Ceramic grease instead of graphite (that stuff is atrocious if you use too much and falls off anyway)

Lowering the thumbstick to the same height as OEM.

It should function and feel exactly like an OEM controller then.

I just made another stick that's better than the one I sent SuperBoom, but only because the height of the stick matches the OEM one. But besides that and the graphite, SuperBoom has the exact same product so don't worry. This one is a preorder for someone else on this forum.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bygwvI0S-DU&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk2n-Auee90&feature=plcp (sorry, still no smash, cart still at friend's house)

Also, I'm changing my warranty to 90 days for breakage/malfunction. Still 30 for any other reason.

OP and 2nd post updated.

careful what your starting. word choice is key..

mikeduncan23 said:

careful what your starting. word choice is key..

Click to expand...

haha, good point
Fixed.

I was just about to buy a couple of the gamecube style sticks (they're cheap and all over ebay at the moment) but I felt that they wouldn't translate as well as I had initially hoped, and therefore I hesitated. Good thing too- I'm really liking what I see here.

I'd like to buy a joystick, I'll PM you with specific information.

Can't wait to see superboom's report.

YouWereAMouse said:

I was just about to buy a couple of the gamecube style sticks (they're cheap and all over ebay at the moment) but I felt that they wouldn't translate as well as I had initially hoped, and therefore I hesitated. Good thing too- I'm really liking what I see here.

I'd like to buy a joystick, I'll PM you with specific information.

Can't wait to see superboom's report.

Click to expand...

Thanks,

PM reply sent; you are next in line. If everything goes as planned I will assemble yours, make sure it works, and ship it by tomorrow morning.

I can't wait either.

I just finished YouWereAMouse's joystick. I made another (and very important) change in the design. Basically, these should now be indestructible for all intents and purposes. The gears are now physically unable to work their way off of the arms, even if the glue doesn't hold. I locked them into place with other pieces. I'm going back and redoing the other order now. I really don't see what more I can add to these controllers to make them any better. I did go back to using a small amount of graphite. It seems to go well with the existing lubricant if I use just a little bit, and it seems to make the deadzone return just a little bit faster.

The most frustrating part of all of this is the growing pile of almost-perfect joysticks.