MrPhox
Tamed Beast
In Super Smash Brothers 64 there were no spot dodges, or airdodges.
Your only defensive moves were shielding and rolling.
This put more emphasis on people's ability to out-prioritize or land attacks before the enemy could respond.
In SSBM they introduced the spot dodge and the airdodge.
The spot dodge gave you a defensive action against single strikes, while the shield was required for moves that came in quick succession. Multi-hit type attacks.
The airdodge left you highly vulnerable and was much more situational than it is in brawl.
So coming back down on the stage meant having an attack that out prioritizes your enemy from below. So ultimately characters could be judged on concrete things like attack rate or priority.
Trying to understand Sakurai's intentions, I've come to the conclusion that he has changed smash brothers since its creation so that emphasis is not dominantly on speed or priority. Or on definite measurable qualities.
He has allowed multiple air dodges with a floatier system that stops verbatim combos from bringing success.
In a system where one move will hit, simply because the move before it hit meant that certain combos were possible, and interpretation was not important.
Sure there are subtleties to DI and moments when you can counter attack out of combos. I'm not painting a black and white picture about what melee was. I'm saying that its focus was more toward strings of combos that won't end until the game's physics allows them to end. Given that the player moves flawlessly.
In this system there is a combo that will be discovered and known by the community, and whether or not you have the dexterity to accomplish this combo determines who threatening you are (TO SOME DEGREE). I must constantly remind you that I am a great fan of melee. Years of my life went into that game and I have the utmost respect for it. That being said, the nature of it's combos remind me more of guitar hero than an interpretive experience.
In guitar hero you either hit or miss the note. Your skill as a player depends on how well you conform to the physical input that is needed.
Now let's look at brawl. My favorite smash brothers. I feel at this point that if anybody denies the value of this game, and puts it below melee, doesn't truly understand this game.
SSBB is like a complex game of rock-paper-scissors.
There are situations in which you will have multiple choices.
Balancing these choices is important.
Every move can only be used safely if it has an alternate option.
For instance:
zair to running upsmash.
the upsmash can be dodged on the spot. If people predict me correctly they'll dodge it everytime.
but if I come in with a zair to a jump-cancelled up special, their dodge will be pointless as I spin throughout a long enough duration to catch them after the dodge.
The reason why the zair to upsmash is possible is because of the zair to upB.
Make sense?
The move can only exist in context of your style.
It must be balanced. Moves are only relative to other moves.
It is the difference in properties of each move that make them worth anything.
Options options options! Options are more important than speed or priority.
This is how style can come into play. Frequencies of use inform the enemy's choices and change their reactions.
By repeating moves or changing moves we can play with the mind of our enemy.
You can't only throw scissors every time.
It is only because you can throw rock or paper, that scissors is possible.
here is a comment I posted in a thread by Impactar
TL Mains' Experience & Mindset
thechene:
hmmmmmm
i see the entire game like quantum physic's idea of alternate dimensions with alternate outcomes.
Or like the pathway of neuron activity.
Each neuron being connected to the next neuron in it's path. Each neuron has a certain number of synapses it could cross that would lead to another neuron with its own new set of synapses.
In any given situation there are MANY options. If you think in an unbiased way...in any situation, every single button input or combination of input could be pressed.
Some result in punishment. Some result in a neutral outcome that effects very little directly. And some may punish the opponent.
When we learn the game, we try moves somewhat randomly, until we find one that gives us good results, like you were talking about. Once we learn it we build off of it. It is our path of learning. The structure of your fighting style is built off of it.
People often put more emphasis on the NEXT option in their style. Rather than OTHER options to substitute in their already existing style.
I'm sure a balanced approach is important. And it sound like so far you completely know what I'm talking about.
But what happens with all people, is diversity must be forced upon our habits. There must be a catalyst that changes our repetitive behavior. At some point, that catalyst becomes YOU. I believe that is a form of enlightenment. When you teach yourself rather than being just an animal which is conditioned.
Now for my real point:
Brawl is more about evaluating your opponent than any smash brothers in the series thus far. It is more about remembering your enemy's situational choices. And you do find they are in fact repetitive.
So instead of evaluating moves based on the physics of the game: priority/attack speed/knockback/damage/duration/effect...etc
we should really note that the most important quality in all of your moves is that they are hopefully different.
Because in a game of ever-developing strategies, where people learn their opponents, MORE bad options are just simply better than few GOOD options.
So the better the fighters ability to truly diversify, and learn the vast possibilities of himself and his opponent, the better his chance of winning.
Ever notice beginners luck in smash brothers? Somebody untrained and new being difficult to fight for the simple fact that they are unpredictable and show no obvious patterns?
If you truly can widen your mind around all the possibilities, and have all that information calculating in your brain simultaneously, you'd be a very good player.
It's almost like memory width...if that makes any sense at all. lol
Intentions are so easy to read. People who always want to hurt limit their possibilities in philosophy. People predict intentions.
What you must do is constantly shift your intentions. Don't always try to capitalize.
Try to diversify.
It's such a fascinating game. It exposes the way we perceive and learn. People become discouraged by certain moves, or have perceptions of it that can be filtered through your play style.
They are learning you from fighting you. Which means what you do influences what they learn.
So that means you have control over what they learn. You can choose what to condition them to believe. And when you can play on that level, you have what people think is amazing prediction, but what you've really done, is crafted their attack patterns.
Your only defensive moves were shielding and rolling.
This put more emphasis on people's ability to out-prioritize or land attacks before the enemy could respond.
In SSBM they introduced the spot dodge and the airdodge.
The spot dodge gave you a defensive action against single strikes, while the shield was required for moves that came in quick succession. Multi-hit type attacks.
The airdodge left you highly vulnerable and was much more situational than it is in brawl.
So coming back down on the stage meant having an attack that out prioritizes your enemy from below. So ultimately characters could be judged on concrete things like attack rate or priority.
Trying to understand Sakurai's intentions, I've come to the conclusion that he has changed smash brothers since its creation so that emphasis is not dominantly on speed or priority. Or on definite measurable qualities.
He has allowed multiple air dodges with a floatier system that stops verbatim combos from bringing success.
In a system where one move will hit, simply because the move before it hit meant that certain combos were possible, and interpretation was not important.
Sure there are subtleties to DI and moments when you can counter attack out of combos. I'm not painting a black and white picture about what melee was. I'm saying that its focus was more toward strings of combos that won't end until the game's physics allows them to end. Given that the player moves flawlessly.
In this system there is a combo that will be discovered and known by the community, and whether or not you have the dexterity to accomplish this combo determines who threatening you are (TO SOME DEGREE). I must constantly remind you that I am a great fan of melee. Years of my life went into that game and I have the utmost respect for it. That being said, the nature of it's combos remind me more of guitar hero than an interpretive experience.
In guitar hero you either hit or miss the note. Your skill as a player depends on how well you conform to the physical input that is needed.
Now let's look at brawl. My favorite smash brothers. I feel at this point that if anybody denies the value of this game, and puts it below melee, doesn't truly understand this game.
SSBB is like a complex game of rock-paper-scissors.
There are situations in which you will have multiple choices.
Balancing these choices is important.
Every move can only be used safely if it has an alternate option.
For instance:
zair to running upsmash.
the upsmash can be dodged on the spot. If people predict me correctly they'll dodge it everytime.
but if I come in with a zair to a jump-cancelled up special, their dodge will be pointless as I spin throughout a long enough duration to catch them after the dodge.
The reason why the zair to upsmash is possible is because of the zair to upB.
Make sense?
The move can only exist in context of your style.
It must be balanced. Moves are only relative to other moves.
It is the difference in properties of each move that make them worth anything.
Options options options! Options are more important than speed or priority.
This is how style can come into play. Frequencies of use inform the enemy's choices and change their reactions.
By repeating moves or changing moves we can play with the mind of our enemy.
You can't only throw scissors every time.
It is only because you can throw rock or paper, that scissors is possible.
here is a comment I posted in a thread by Impactar
TL Mains' Experience & Mindset
thechene:
hmmmmmm
i see the entire game like quantum physic's idea of alternate dimensions with alternate outcomes.
Or like the pathway of neuron activity.
Each neuron being connected to the next neuron in it's path. Each neuron has a certain number of synapses it could cross that would lead to another neuron with its own new set of synapses.
In any given situation there are MANY options. If you think in an unbiased way...in any situation, every single button input or combination of input could be pressed.
Some result in punishment. Some result in a neutral outcome that effects very little directly. And some may punish the opponent.
When we learn the game, we try moves somewhat randomly, until we find one that gives us good results, like you were talking about. Once we learn it we build off of it. It is our path of learning. The structure of your fighting style is built off of it.
People often put more emphasis on the NEXT option in their style. Rather than OTHER options to substitute in their already existing style.
I'm sure a balanced approach is important. And it sound like so far you completely know what I'm talking about.
But what happens with all people, is diversity must be forced upon our habits. There must be a catalyst that changes our repetitive behavior. At some point, that catalyst becomes YOU. I believe that is a form of enlightenment. When you teach yourself rather than being just an animal which is conditioned.
Now for my real point:
Brawl is more about evaluating your opponent than any smash brothers in the series thus far. It is more about remembering your enemy's situational choices. And you do find they are in fact repetitive.
So instead of evaluating moves based on the physics of the game: priority/attack speed/knockback/damage/duration/effect...etc
we should really note that the most important quality in all of your moves is that they are hopefully different.
Because in a game of ever-developing strategies, where people learn their opponents, MORE bad options are just simply better than few GOOD options.
So the better the fighters ability to truly diversify, and learn the vast possibilities of himself and his opponent, the better his chance of winning.
Ever notice beginners luck in smash brothers? Somebody untrained and new being difficult to fight for the simple fact that they are unpredictable and show no obvious patterns?
If you truly can widen your mind around all the possibilities, and have all that information calculating in your brain simultaneously, you'd be a very good player.
It's almost like memory width...if that makes any sense at all. lol
Intentions are so easy to read. People who always want to hurt limit their possibilities in philosophy. People predict intentions.
What you must do is constantly shift your intentions. Don't always try to capitalize.
Try to diversify.
It's such a fascinating game. It exposes the way we perceive and learn. People become discouraged by certain moves, or have perceptions of it that can be filtered through your play style.
They are learning you from fighting you. Which means what you do influences what they learn.
So that means you have control over what they learn. You can choose what to condition them to believe. And when you can play on that level, you have what people think is amazing prediction, but what you've really done, is crafted their attack patterns.
