Kirby
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Match-Up Discussion #20! Kirby
- Thread starter Steel
- Start date
So yeah.. Kirby doesn't really have much on Marth.
I can't see him having any reliable ways past Marth's sword other than final cutter which is risky. His fsmash is still good and his hammer's been buffed.. but if you are spacing and zoning correctly you shouldn't be getting hit by those.
He has a good jab combo, you should be able to DI out quick enough though to not suffer much %. His bair is probably one of his best approaches, but i'm pretty sure your fair outranges it. If he sticks with that approach you could just stay grounded and throw out some ftilts. His dash attack also isn't bad.
Be weary of his edge guarding, however.
Probably about 70:30. Marth can just camp with his sword pretty much the whole fight.
I can't see him having any reliable ways past Marth's sword other than final cutter which is risky. His fsmash is still good and his hammer's been buffed.. but if you are spacing and zoning correctly you shouldn't be getting hit by those.
He has a good jab combo, you should be able to DI out quick enough though to not suffer much %. His bair is probably one of his best approaches, but i'm pretty sure your fair outranges it. If he sticks with that approach you could just stay grounded and throw out some ftilts. His dash attack also isn't bad.
Be weary of his edge guarding, however.
Probably about 70:30. Marth can just camp with his sword pretty much the whole fight.
ZHMT
Smash Lord
Steel covered most of it, camp with fairs and dtilts until Kirby cant take it anymore. He is now annoyed and rushes in and eats a ftilt...he cant get past your sword.
He can use the rock (his down b) to edgeguard, his fsmash is highly overpowered, however you can just shield it and up b lulz.
I agree with 70:30.
Also smexy siggy Steel lol.
He can use the rock (his down b) to edgeguard, his fsmash is highly overpowered, however you can just shield it and up b lulz.
I agree with 70:30.
Also smexy siggy Steel lol.
thanks XD
kizzu is amazing.
kizzu is amazing.
chaos_
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 459
whats the best strategy to fight marth with kirby?
ZHMT
Smash Lord
Mixup Occasional Cutters and bairs, his fsmash is very strong but very unlikely to hit. Kirby can use it like Snakes and predict a roll. Kirby is good at edgeguarding, he can use his down b to stage spike you and wop you with bairs. Kirby has good grab range and real throw combos, so he will likely try to do those. Dair does good damage, however shouldnt be hitting a good Marth anyways. Kirby's options are limited to bair and edgeguarding, also needs very good prediction to win.
Pretty much what master timmy said, Kirby would have to play like super gay to have a chance in the match.
chaos_
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 459
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Super Pink Power Puff!
As you all said, he doesn't really have much, except and excellent defense. Watch out for his hammer, space yourself correctly and just own.
70:30 Marth
As you all said, he doesn't really have much, except and excellent defense. Watch out for his hammer, space yourself correctly and just own.
70:30 Marth
Kizzu-kun
Smash Journeyman
Side note: Kirby's Shield Breaker have less lag than Marth's.
And plus he have more shieldstabbing attacks that works well with the Breaker.
Bottom note: Swords beat ballons.
And plus he have more shieldstabbing attacks that works well with the Breaker.
Bottom note: Swords beat ballons.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
kirby can shoot you under FD, BF, and smashville after sucking you up. and i blows, hard
feardragon64
Smash Champion
I would go 65:35 marth. Basically, for the reasons outlined above, Marth destroys kirby. But I say 65:35 instead of 70:30, kirby is a small target and suprisingly, a mistimed aerial approach can be avoided by simply ducking and he's suddenly close enough to utilt. The other thing is he has a pretty awesome grab game with ACTUAL combos. If he grabs you at a low %, he can easily rack up 40+ damage almost instantly.
P.S. Marth outranges kirby, but when recovering, you only slightly outrange his bair so make sure you aren't screwing up with that. Also, his fsmash's hitbox lasts longer than you'd probably expect so don't spot dodge it. If you shield it, dolphin slash, don't go for the grab since you might still take damage.
And for the love of god, don't be stupid. DON'T get kirby-cided.....
P.S. Marth outranges kirby, but when recovering, you only slightly outrange his bair so make sure you aren't screwing up with that. Also, his fsmash's hitbox lasts longer than you'd probably expect so don't spot dodge it. If you shield it, dolphin slash, don't go for the grab since you might still take damage.
And for the love of god, don't be stupid. DON'T get kirby-cided.....
If he ducks how are you going to get up tilted if you DI backwards after the fair?
Yes he has good combos, so don't get grabbed >_> It's not that hard since you have a sword.
feardragon64
Smash Champion
Eh, I was talking about approaching fairs...but I suppose that's true.
Also, his grab range is half-way decent so just be wary. It's just like every other freaking match up for marth. Space properly, and you won't get punished. lol.
Oh, and beware of kirby's down b when recovering. It's overated and easy to see coming, but the fact that you need to air dodge or DI away could make the difference between recovering and just missing the ledge.
Also stage spike from it. Just something to note.
I'd recommend DI'ing up if he throws you downwards (thus avoiding the uptilt that follows, perhaps airdodge after for those who anticipate and just uair you). If he throws you forward, DI away because either an uair or a fair follows, depending on your percentage. The combos aren't as good on Marth (least when I try) due to Marth's light weight (if you were ganon and you got grabbed... lol 40%+).
If you were to chase him off the screen... just watch out for a kirbycide? The hammer in the face is pretty easy to react to.
His dair is a semi spike... but it should be pretty hard to catch marth with a dair since the timing is a bit strange. If both characters are on the ground and Kirby connects a dair, the Kirby can follow up with a forward smash :3 (Generally Kirbys save their forward smash for the kill since it kills at 80 or 90 fresh, position dependent I suppose).
I haven't tried this against a Marth but against some characters, I like to position kirby in a spot where his continuous jab reaches slightly over the edge but out of range from the ledge attack.
Most Kirbys don't use their down+B but I suppose counter or use an airdodge. Generally if they've conditioned you to go under them to attack... you have to get rid of that predictability or you'll get thwomped by a rock :D
If you were to chase him off the screen... just watch out for a kirbycide? The hammer in the face is pretty easy to react to.
His dair is a semi spike... but it should be pretty hard to catch marth with a dair since the timing is a bit strange. If both characters are on the ground and Kirby connects a dair, the Kirby can follow up with a forward smash :3 (Generally Kirbys save their forward smash for the kill since it kills at 80 or 90 fresh, position dependent I suppose).
I haven't tried this against a Marth but against some characters, I like to position kirby in a spot where his continuous jab reaches slightly over the edge but out of range from the ledge attack.
Most Kirbys don't use their down+B but I suppose counter or use an airdodge. Generally if they've conditioned you to go under them to attack... you have to get rid of that predictability or you'll get thwomped by a rock :D
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
I may be wrong, but don't you get your second jump back if you are spit out?
MK26
Smash Master
If you are spit out and Kirby is not touching ground. So spitting out under the stage is usually followed by a B-air stage spike ftk.
In other news, why is your discussion on the second page while we have...1 post?
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
What are you talking about with the one post thing, lol. And thank you for clearing that up, I need to work on my teching, that is irrelevant though, just a note to self.
the marth community is sorta kinda good
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
Fixed that for ya.
We will move on in a few hours, not much to say here.
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
OK who is next Steel?
mewtwo
10char
10char
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
Lol that is an intense matchup, Marth has to play very defensive there, Mewtwo has a 0 death on Marth with every single one of his moves.
Freaking Marth. With his hair and tiara.
It makes me mad when people complain that he's "bad" just because they choose to compare everything in Brawl to Melee.
Against Kirby...it's been said. Use your sword and your hair and tiara will prevail.
And no, you don't get your second jump back if Kirby inhales you. Kirbycide doesn't work on good players anyway, at least not when Kirby is recovering, and the other player is still on the stage. It sometimes works when both players are trying to recover from the same area offstage, and Kirby unexpectedly decides he doesn't want to recover, and if I go down I'm taking you with me!
It makes me mad when people complain that he's "bad" just because they choose to compare everything in Brawl to Melee.
Against Kirby...it's been said. Use your sword and your hair and tiara will prevail.
And no, you don't get your second jump back if Kirby inhales you. Kirbycide doesn't work on good players anyway, at least not when Kirby is recovering, and the other player is still on the stage. It sometimes works when both players are trying to recover from the same area offstage, and Kirby unexpectedly decides he doesn't want to recover, and if I go down I'm taking you with me!
I've played Chu Dat, so I'm probably kinda biased lol.
Anyways, Kirby actually can approach Marth somewhat reliably with dash into shield and spotdodge (which is wickedly quick). It can be supposed that Kirby can read your approach correctly and begin to space Bairs (which aren't that much shorter than your Fairs I think).
Marth approaching Kirby is obviously easier, but of course Kirby's quick dash into shield and spotdodge must be take into account. That being said, it's still Marth's control for the most part here. Be wary of his quick change-ups to either Bair spacing or Hammer spacing, and you can go about your normal business of Fair walls and tilts to disrupt Kirby's approach.
As for edgeguarding, both are highly successful in the right hands. Marth can tipper Bairs all day on the lightweight in between Hammer swings. For Kirby, it's not too difficult to space hammers to keep Marth going low, then finish with a Dair (which works annoyingly well). Pretty even here imo.
Kirby's smashes are very helpful in various situations. Dsmash hurts anyone who ADs as they fall to the ground to reset juggles. Fsmash and Usmash are great finishers, and can be set up well by Dtilt, a quick, low move that can shield poke.
It's pretty tough to land an Usmash on Kirby since he can float over it or AD through it, but Dsmash and tippered Fsmash can still kill at early percents to even things out.
Also, Kirby's Fthrow to Uair to whatever combo works only at like 0-3%, afterwards I think at least the Uair can be DI'd out of.
Marth has to be careful with DB here. I think the 4 red strikes can actually be DI'd out of if Kirby smash DIs the first hit correctly.
From what I've learned playing Chu Dat, I think this is actually 60:40 Marth. Please feel free to challenge anything I say.
Anyways, Kirby actually can approach Marth somewhat reliably with dash into shield and spotdodge (which is wickedly quick). It can be supposed that Kirby can read your approach correctly and begin to space Bairs (which aren't that much shorter than your Fairs I think).
Marth approaching Kirby is obviously easier, but of course Kirby's quick dash into shield and spotdodge must be take into account. That being said, it's still Marth's control for the most part here. Be wary of his quick change-ups to either Bair spacing or Hammer spacing, and you can go about your normal business of Fair walls and tilts to disrupt Kirby's approach.
As for edgeguarding, both are highly successful in the right hands. Marth can tipper Bairs all day on the lightweight in between Hammer swings. For Kirby, it's not too difficult to space hammers to keep Marth going low, then finish with a Dair (which works annoyingly well). Pretty even here imo.
Kirby's smashes are very helpful in various situations. Dsmash hurts anyone who ADs as they fall to the ground to reset juggles. Fsmash and Usmash are great finishers, and can be set up well by Dtilt, a quick, low move that can shield poke.
It's pretty tough to land an Usmash on Kirby since he can float over it or AD through it, but Dsmash and tippered Fsmash can still kill at early percents to even things out.
Also, Kirby's Fthrow to Uair to whatever combo works only at like 0-3%, afterwards I think at least the Uair can be DI'd out of.
Marth has to be careful with DB here. I think the 4 red strikes can actually be DI'd out of if Kirby smash DIs the first hit correctly.
From what I've learned playing Chu Dat, I think this is actually 60:40 Marth. Please feel free to challenge anything I say.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
I agree steel, not much more to cover.
imo its 65:35, and everyone's seems to be close to that so we dont have too much dispute going in. mewtwo will take several pages to fully discuss, i look forward to it.
imo its 65:35, and everyone's seems to be close to that so we dont have too much dispute going in. mewtwo will take several pages to fully discuss, i look forward to it.
DrPP we're talking about the best kirby out there and one of the top players in US. Of course you are going to have a biased response if you play someone who is above your skill level.
Aren't the discussions supposed to consider two players playing their characters to their full potential? Chu does a pretty good job of that, which makes me realise that a great Kirby can do very well against a great Marth(not saying I'm anywhere close to that cuz I'm not). Anywhere from 60:40 to 65:45 seems right to me.
Nice 1000th post btw.
Nice 1000th post btw.
Yes, two top players at EQUAL skill. You're good, but you probably aren't on the level that Chu is is what i'm saying.
You made some valid points, but I still really feel this is a 70:30 match up.
MK26
Smash Master
Marth really does screw with Kirby hard, eh? So you've decided on 70-30...I guess we'll keep it at that.
In other news, I'm stealing your Kirby picture for our thread.
In other news, I'm stealing your Kirby picture for our thread.
For now, yes. We can always rediscuss a ratio at a later time if something comes up.
Just curious Steel, besides the statement about being biased, what else seemed inaccurate to you?
Inaccurate? Nothing really, just nothing I saw that could tilt it more towards an even match.
This is a reliable approach for just about every character in the game. But if it starts getting predictable one can simply grab kirby. Another option for Marth is simply retreating fair once he dashes towards you. Keep him in front of your sword.
I THINK fair just outranges it, but either way when you say "read your approach" then you start to get into the mindgame aspect of things which have no place in a match up discussion.
As mentioned above.
Agreed.
Marth can be juggled, this is known. But you should probably only be getting hit by smashes if you make a mistake. Didn't know about the dtilt > smash though. That's interesting.
nothing else really to say. And yeah kirby is quite floaty, it's a possibility and should be tested if anyone has the time.
Oh yeah, that's cool.
As for the very first thing, I think that Kirby has a very quick dash into shield, which can help react to SH Fair or a tilt better. I know it's a staple approach, but Kirby's just seems a little above average there.
For the second thing, I meant that if Kirby saw Marth run at him, it can assumed he would go for a grab, which is responded to with Bairs.
Even so, you're right in that it does bring in the mindgames aspect, so I guess I'm just justifying myself there.
Preciate it man.
As for the very first thing, I think that Kirby has a very quick dash into shield, which can help react to SH Fair or a tilt better. I know it's a staple approach, but Kirby's just seems a little above average there.
For the second thing, I meant that if Kirby saw Marth run at him, it can assumed he would go for a grab, which is responded to with Bairs.
Even so, you're right in that it does bring in the mindgames aspect, so I guess I'm just justifying myself there.
Preciate it man.
Kizzu-kun
Smash Journeyman
You just stated the percentage of aliens, timetravellers and espers in this room. \('o')/
Just adding a side note AGAIN:
Matchup discussions is all about tactics before the match starts.
Who is going to have a favor against who naturally speaking.
Skill isn't measured here, just character abilities.
A player only can change this if he revolutionizes and add more abilities to his character.
Thanks for reminding me Kizzu.
I can see where I went wrong in my analysis now.
I can see where I went wrong in my analysis now.
En.Ee.Oh
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
- Messages
- 2,527
i wanna fuck the girl in your sig.. wtf