All about wavebouncing (updated 08-12-08)

I. Intro and updates

II. Wavebouncing

• 
  Side-b
  • With b-sticking
    [*]With c-sticking
    [*]With a-sticking (Aha! Found it!)
• Up-b
  • With b-sticking
    [*]With c-sticking
    [*]With a-sticking
• Down-b
  • With b-sticking
    [*]With c-sticking
    [*]With a-sticking
• Neutral-b
  • With b-sticking
    [*]With c-sticking (No known way for this one either, but who would care?)
    [*]With a-sticking

III. Offensive wavebouncing

• 
  Side-b
  • with b-sticking
  • with c-sticking
  • with a-sticking
• Up-b
  • with b-sticking
  • with c-sticking
  • with a-sticking
• Down-b
  • with b-sticking
  • with c-sticking
  • with a-sticking
• Neutral-b
  • with b-sticking
  • with c-sticking (No known way, but as the other c-stick nerutral-b, who would care?)
  • with a-sticking

IV. Outro and notes



I. Intro and updates

Hi all! My name is Rkey, and I welcome everyone to the All About WaveBouncing (A.A.W.B) thread ! In this thread, all the methods for wavebouncing both defensively and offensively have been gathered. If you know of anything that should be updated on this thread, which can be anything from a small gif showing lucario wavebounce to another way to describe a certain wavebounce to a... whatever, dancing mule, you name it! Also, if (ehe) something is misspelled or if any grammar is messed up (I'm from Sweden), please post here and tell me. I want to keep this thread up-(to)-date:ed. Speaking of updating:


Updates: THE NEW COOL THINGS!

Update nr. 3, 08-12-08 at post #42:

A request has been added in the "wanted"-list, and it's huge! I fixed a few errors in the text generally too.

Update nr. 2, 22-09-08 at post #29:This was just a minor update, how to wavebounce the side-b defensively and minor pimping of the text, but in a way it was also a big update and it meant something special: Now this thread actually consists of every single way to wavebounce, except the c-sticked b-neutrals, but I've explained why I won't incude them so I consider myself done on that point. Yay!

I was wondering what to do next with this thread, and I was thinking maybe a video of wavebouncing used in matches so that people take this a bit more seriously. I'll think more about that... I also included a "wanted updates" section, even if it's still empty but just to put it there. Anyway,

Update nr. 1, 09-09-08 at post #19: The thread now includes all the ways to wavebounce, is a lot more organized, has flashier colors AND!! ... oh well ...

Wanted updates, now we got one!!!:

1. Video, of course: There's been a request that I do a video that shows every single wavebounce on every single character. It's gonna take a long time to do, since I will also include a few "this can be used for that"-comments, but when it's done it's gonna be NEAT!

Progress on wanted updates:

1. 0/39 characters, unfortunately.



General info: If you do not know what wavebouncing or b-sticking is, ot if you're to lazy to try it for yourself, you can check out this video, or you can read my explanations and do it yourself.

Thread info:
- When I'm writing the descriptions, all of them will be when you start jumping to the right. It can be done in both directions, but to make all the directions easier I chose to write and explain everything with a fixed starting point.
- The Analog-stick, or the a-stick, is the grey stick, the c-stick is the yellow stick and b is the b-button, all on the GC-controller.
- When I'm explaining how to wb b-sticked, I will assume that you're already playing b-sticked (i.e. I won't start by telling you to b-stick, and I wont refer to the c-stick as the "b-sticked c-stick", since that would be really annoying to write all the time).
- I will also tell positions on the controller by telling you different times (like 12 o' clock is up, 3 o' clock is right etc.).



II. Wavebouncing

Wavebouncing (also WB or wb) is an AT (Advanced Tech) for Brawl. I guess it was named WAVEbouncing because people are nostalgic that there's no wavedashing in Brawl. Anyhow, this is what happens:

Basically, you jump into the air, facing forward. You do any b-attack, but you are at the same time launched the opposite direction you are facing! This is very usefull for many characters, such as Pikachu (jump forward, do thunder and bounce backward for a quick thunder wall), Marth (retreating sword dance is c00l), LUCAS (super effectice, since he already gets a bounce backwards (!) from his PK-fire) and many more. Yet again, effects on all characters can be found in, or in "related videos" of this video

Now for all the ways to wavebounce:


Side-b

• B-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Continue holding right with the a-stick
  - Hit the c-stick left
  - Done (yeah I know, b-sticking is really easy ^_^)
• C-Sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Continue holding right with the a-stick
  - Hit left with the c-stick and at the same time hit b.
• A-sticked
  I'm happy I found this! Here it is:
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Hit left with the a-stick
  - Press b, and simultaneously hit the a-stick right. The better timing, the better bounce.

Up-b

• B-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Continue holding right with the a-stick
  - Hit the c-stick at 11 o' clock
• C-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Continue holding right with the a-stick
  - Hit the c-stick at 11 o' clock and press the b-button at the same time
• A-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Do the up-b, but you move the a-stick in a half-moon shape, starting at 12-1 o'clock and quickly moving it to 9 o' clock. This is the way I do, I think what is supposed to happen is that the a-stick must reach 9 o' clock inte the start-up of the attack. This works anyway!

Down-b

• B-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Continue holding right with the a-stick
  - Hit the c-stick at 7 o' clock
• C-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Continue holding right with the a-stick
  - Hit the c-stick at 7 o' clock and hit b at the same time
• A-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - This is like the up-b, only reversed... or something ^_^ Do the down-b, and again move the a-stick in a half-moon shape, but starting at 5-6 o' clock and move it quickly to 9 o 'clock. Again, there might be other ways to do it, but this feels pretty comfortable.

Neutral-b

This is difficult (sorry fox falco wolf), brace yourselves

• B-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - The direction to hit the c-stick is hard to describe here, But I'd say between 3 and 2 o' clock "in all directions" as long the "general direction" is the opposite of where you're going. This means, that when jumping right you can hit either between 3 and 4 o' clock, or between 3 and 2 o' clock, and vice versa (I LOVE THOSE WORDS!! )
• C-sticked
  Yeah, I guess you could hit the c-stick in that perfect way and press b at the same time, but I can't even do it in slo-mo, so who cares?
• A-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right, and press the following four rapidly:
  - Hit left with the a-stick
  - Return the a-stick to neutral
  - Press b
  - Hit right with the a-stick
  Additional explanation: What happens is that when you hit left, you say that "When I press b, I will do my b-attack the opposite way I'm facing now". After you've done this, you press b to get the right bounce, but to make sure you don't turn around, you hit right again. Maybe this isn't how it works, but I hope it gives the button pressing more sense.

III. Offensive wavebouncing

This is still wavebouncing, but it's used in the... I guess you could say the opposite way. Since regular wavebouncing is mostly a defensive tactic, this one is more offensive and has a lot of mindgaming-potential since it's so random. What you do is, you jump away from you opponent (I'm still assuming that you're facing right in the beginning, don't mix up the directions now), do any b-attack, and at the same time turning around, quickly changing direction but maintaining all speed! It's quite efficient, but I've got no video with it (However, I will soon!! ;D )Anyhow let's get down with it.

New note: Why it is here extra important to sync the attack with the shifting of the position of the a-stick is because the forward momentum you have is the same as the momentum you will have in the opposite direction (in the bounce). This means, if it takes too long to attack after you have shifted the position of the a-stick, you will have lost a lot of momentum and the bounce won't be so great. I need a proof for this...


Side-b

• B-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Hit left on the a-stick and right on the c-stick at the same time
• C-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Hit left on the a-stick, right on the c-stick and b at the same time
• A-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Do the side-b to the right
  - Instantly press left on the a-stick

Up-b This is actually still the same as the regular wavebounce for up-b. Since most up-b's are directed upwards the direction of the character has no or little effect and has therefore not been paid any attention yet. I have not tried it with those who have got a directed up-b, like olimar or ivysaur. This will have to be updated, since I don't know the mechanics behind the turn-around on this one.

• B-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Continue holding right with the a-stick
  - Hit the c-stick at about 11 o' clock
• C-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Hit the a-stick left, the c-stick up and press the b-button at the same time
• A-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Begin moving the a-stick from 3 o' clock (where it is now), to 12 o' clock, this where you press b, and continue to 9 o' clock

Down-b

• B-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Hit the a-stick left
  - Hit the c-stick down
• C-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Hit the a-stick left
  - Hit the c-stick down and press b at the samt time
• A-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Begin moving the a-stick from 3 o' clock (where it is now), to 6 o' clock, this where you press b, and continue to 9 o' clock

Neutral-b

• B-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Hit the a-stick left
  - Hit the c-stick to do the neutral b, but make sure that "the general direction is the opposite of where same way as you're going"
• C-sticked
  Who cares?
• A-sticked
  - Jump right, facing right
  - Return the a-stick to neutral
  - Press b
  - Instanly hit the a-stick left

IV Outro and notes

Many of these bounces are hard to perform, and won't give you much for it. But some of them are not much trouble at all, and will give you a lot. I did this mostly with Zamus, and her a-sticked offensive side-b wb is extremely useful. The a-sticked offensive neutral-b wb is also good, and the best thing that they're easy to perform.

Credits of discovery goes to: I heard from SamuraiPanda that he was the first one to discover wb, but offensive wb:ing and wb:ing without b-sticking I'm not sure about. I found out myself but unfortunately I was to late to get cred for it

Thank you for reading the thread, even if you didn't read all of it which I doubt many will , and I hope it was helpful to you. I'm so happy it's done it turned out to hold great potential (which shall be fully revealed in time), this took me quite some time to do XP. If, yet again, anything is unclear, just ask. Have a good Brawl!

nahh. i dont b-stick. if you use C-stick properly u can wavesmash and pivot smash.

known by the Falco boards for a while, done with lasers by a few (not me, it's pretty strict timing and not too much is gained), but that's just neutral B so the rest is new.
but good job on informing everybody else since i dont recall seeing anything outside of the Falco section.

There's another Neutral B wave bounce (that can be gotten with the lasers) where it bounces you backwards instead of forwards, basically i think you have to do the aerial turn of the B move before following the instructions for the normal neutral b wavebounce, (all the directions get confusing and i was never able to do it, but I've seen vids).
I'll try and find the thread and link it later

This has been known for a while unfortunately.

Though I do have to say, it's fun doing a Reversed AND Turning ganon punch at the same time, so you end up punching in the same direction to begin with

Also I love doing a reversed super dash with Lucas's Down B, it tricks many people.

Good post for those who didn't know about it.

Regardless of if it was known or not, there have not been any guides of this in the Tactical Board, to the best of my knowledge. Great guide.

Well written, but this was discovered a few days after "wavebouncing" (which, btw, I discovered, and posted before that video) was first found. Sorry ^_^''

SamuraiPanda discovered this? o.o this is new LOL

Yeah, not exactly your discovery, but it's still useful, and this is a good guide.

J4pu said:

known by the Falco boards for a while, done with lasers by a few (not me, it's pretty strict timing and not too much is gained), but that's just neutral B so the rest is new.
but good job on informing everybody else since i dont recall seeing anything outside of the Falco section.

There's another Neutral B wave bounce (that can be gotten with the lasers) where it bounces you backwards instead of forwards, basically i think you have to do the aerial turn of the B move before following the instructions for the normal neutral b wavebounce, (all the directions get confusing and i was never able to do it, but I've seen vids).
I'll try and find the thread and link it later

Click to expand...

Thank you ^_^ And do that please, I can't make it work

SamuraiPanda said:

Well written, but this was discovered a few days after "wavebouncing" (which, btw, I discovered, and posted before that video) was first found. Sorry ^_^''

Click to expand...

Thanks again That goes for offensive bounces as well? I found those SICK with Zamus, the reach and damage of it...

Rkey said:

Thank you ^_^ And do that please, I can't make it work

Click to expand...

Wait, I just did it! ^_^

Ah, wavebouncing.
Good to see some data on it.

It's possible to do 'wavebounce' without a C-stick at all.

When I do B-reversals, I just do side-B and quickly slide the analog stick the opposite direction right after I hit B.

edit:
bold.

Yes, the OP also says, that you don't need b sticking

The way the OP describes a side-B "wavebounce", you flick the C-stick (guessing it's set to smash or attack) in a direction and Analog+B in the other.

I'm saying that you don't need the C-stick in your inputs at all.

Rkey said:

For most of the bounces, you have to look at the C-stick like a second analog stick, or if you wish, as if you were b-sticking but you just press the b-button too at the right time. I will explain best I can, step by step. I will asume you are allways jumping to the right to make all the directions easier, however it can indeed be done in both directions. The Analog-stick is the grey stick and the c-stick is the yellow stick on the GC-controller.


• Side-b

- Jump right, facing right.
- Continue holding right on the analog stick.
- Hit left with the c-stick as you at the same time hit b. Not too early, not too late, but perfect.

If done correctly, you just wavebounced the side-b!

...

- Jump right, facing right.
- Continue holding right on the analog-stick.
- Do the down-b.
- Hit the c-stick not directly down, but a little to the left, and the b-button at the same time.

It's like the side-b, consider the c-stick your second analog-stick.


...

• Side-b

- Jump right, facing right (preferably AWAY from the opponent).
- Hit the c-stick right, the analog-stick left, and the b-button ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

Result:

You will turn around in mid-air and bounce to the left, doing you side-b (against your opponent).

Click to expand...

You can just initiate a compatible side/down/up(?)-B facing one way and as soon as you press B, quickly flick the analog stick in the opposite direction.

The direction you 'bounce' will be the opposite the direction you were moving, regardless of which way you face it, etc.

^^Yeah, Sonic mains do that all the time instead of pivot grabs (b-reversal->shield cancel->grab)

And Marth's do it to do reverse side bs or shield breakers out of a dash.

Here's a guide by Jewdo from way back in March http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155369

Here's Forward's thread on the Falco boards for B reversal lasers (video with explanations included)- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171387

Here's a video with B reversal Lasers and Double B reversal Lasers (as well as some other Falco techs): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APjt-cArpqk&fmt=18
-credit goes to MassiveGuns

Tenki said:

The way the OP describes a side-B "wavebounce", you flick the C-stick (guessing it's set to smash or attack) in a direction and Analog+B in the other.

I'm saying that you don't need the C-stick in your inputs at all.

You can just initiate a compatible side/down/up(?)-B facing one way and as soon as you press B, quickly flick the analog stick in the opposite direction.

The direction you 'bounce' will be the opposite the direction you were moving, regardless of which way you face it, etc.

Click to expand...

I will try that out, I think this thread is gonna be further updated to present all the ways to wavebounce each attack. Thanks for the info

this would be cooler if i did b-stick

Bumping for the 09-09-08 update...

Wave bouncing is just a turnaround B then a B reversal. You don't even need to use the C-stick. I didn't read the every post so this might have already been said.

I like the new update, very nice job.

Hype said:

Wave bouncing is just a turnaround B then a B reversal. You don't even need to use the C-stick. I didn't read the every post so this might have already been said.

Click to expand...

The thing is, you CAN use the c-stick, and sometimes it's easier.

It's only easier to use the C-stick if you have it set to special. Otherwise, turnaround special to b-reversal is worlds easier. Maybe it's just the way I hold the controller, but I read your description of how to do this with the C-stick and I wondered what you had to be smoking, because my hand doesn't naturally do that.

Well, I use classic controller and was thinking about setting ZL to Special, in which case I could be drifting left with the control stick, hit Special with ZL, and reverse it with the C-stick, without interrupting my momentum to the left. Amirite?

remember its possible to wavebounce on the ground but only with certain attacks

this thread helped me with writing my guide
ty

ph00tbag said:

It's only easier to use the C-stick if you have it set to special. Otherwise, turnaround special to b-reversal is worlds easier. Maybe it's just the way I hold the controller, but I read your description of how to do this with the C-stick and I wondered what you had to be smoking, because my hand doesn't naturally do that.

Click to expand...

It's sometimes easier than a-stickign the wb, and lol XD

Try putting your index finger on b and thumb on c-stick. If you want to, you can set the x-button to shield, since you can easily press it when your index finger is on the b-button.

infzy said:

Well, I use classic controller and was thinking about setting ZL to Special, in which case I could be drifting left with the control stick, hit Special with ZL, and reverse it with the C-stick, without interrupting my momentum to the left. Amirite?

Click to expand...

Sounds clever, it should work.

fcukinSN said:

remember its possible to wavebounce on the ground but only with certain attacks

Click to expand...

OMG WHAT?!

fcukinSN said:

remember its possible to wavebounce on the ground but only with certain attacks

Click to expand...

Bumping the 22-09-08 update and at the same time re-asking about this very interesting post.

Noone cares about wavebouncing

Rkey said:

Noone cares about wavebouncing

Click to expand...

Well, each character has a very specific use/way for wavebouncing, and not all characters find it useful. General discussion on the idea doesn't very effectively show how useful it can be.

[*]B-sticked
- Jump right, facing right
- Continue holding right with the a-stick
- Hit the c-stick left
- Done (yeah I know, b-sticking is really easy ^_^)

Click to expand...

should be changed to control-stick

: ) good thread.

DRaGZ said:

Well, each character has a very specific use/way for wavebouncing, and not all characters find it useful. General discussion on the idea doesn't very effectively show how useful it can be.

Click to expand...

Then this maybe could turn out to me adding for what characters it is useful and add videos for all of them? Like the total encyclopedia for wavebouncing? There's a video that is kind of this, but it only shows the regular wavebounces, I really should make one ^w^ If I get someone else saying this I will add it to the "wanted" section.

Lord Yawgmoth said:

should be changed to control-stick

: ) good thread.

Click to expand...

But I described in the beginning that I wil call it a-stick. Also, control-stick is annoying to write and might be mixed up with c-stick. Maybe analog-stick, but a-stick is short for that so yeah. Or did you mean the c-stick as in control stick? Because it IS the a-stick that must still be held in the direction you were going in the first place to do this wavebounce.

Thank you! ^_^

I know how to wavebounce neutral B's.

You have to do a reverse N_B before you bounce it, so if you're jumping right, you would hit and release left quickly, hit B, then immediately hit right again (like, within a frame or 2 of hitting B), and you should bounce left. Offensive neutrals are even easier. Just be moving right, let go of the a-stick, hit B and then immediately hit left. You'll turn and bounce left.

All bounces can be done without the c-stick, but they're very hard because you have to move the a-stick very quickly.

Snakes use wavebouncing with grenades to avoid being juggled by marths (and other characters too probably)
I see it pretty often actually.

Rkey said:

But I described in the beginning that I wil call it a-stick. Also, control-stick is annoying to write and might be mixed up with c-stick.

Click to expand...

Oh, : ( sorry, I guess I didn't read it as thoroughly as I thought.


I just thought you were using a-stick later on to mean "attack stick" (tilts)

again, my apologies.

Lord Yawgmoth said:

Oh, : ( sorry, I guess I didn't read it as thoroughly as I thought.


I just thought you were using a-stick later on to mean "attack stick" (tilts)

again, my apologies.

Click to expand...

No problemo ^_^

Yeroc said:

I know how to wavebounce neutral B's.

You have to do a reverse N_B before you bounce it, so if you're jumping right, you would hit and release left quickly, hit B, then immediately hit right again (like, within a frame or 2 of hitting B), and you should bounce left. Offensive neutrals are even easier. Just be moving right, let go of the a-stick, hit B and then immediately hit left. You'll turn and bounce left.

All bounces can be done without the c-stick, but they're very hard because you have to move the a-stick very quickly.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but isn't that exactly what I said?


- Jump right, facing right, and press the following four rapidly:
- Hit left with the a-stick
- Return the a-stick to neutral
- Press b
- Hit right with the a-stick

- Jump right, facing right
- Return the a-stick to neutral
- Press b
- Instanly hit the a-stick left

Or where you telling something else? It sounds the same to me, but hey I'm swedish.

It was, I like, half misread your definitions. I saw where you said it was the analog stick, but I didn't connect that with the "A-stick" section of the list, which I just call the manual method. Sorry :blush: .

Yeroc said:

It was, I like, half misread your definitions. I saw where you said it was the analog stick, but I didn't connect that with the "A-stick" section of the list, which I just call the manual method. Sorry :blush: .

Click to expand...

It's all ok, I'm not easily offended d^^

But hey guys, should I make a video that goes in depth on every character using all the wavebounces?