Mr. Game and Watch
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Match-Up Discussion #6! Mr. Game and Watch
- Thread starter Steel
- Start date
Go ^_^
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
1st POST!!!!!! Lol
Don't be fooled by his B-air it ends after it hits the ground and DISSAPEARS.
And if anticipated counter is good but as always never ever abuse the counter.
You can also grab him out of his up-b and watch him fall to his death
And.....................................
Don't be fooled by his B-air it ends after it hits the ground and DISSAPEARS.
And if anticipated counter is good but as always never ever abuse the counter.
You can also grab him out of his up-b and watch him fall to his death
And.....................................
ZHMT
Smash Lord
Mr. Game and Watch can be a huge problem for Marth if you dont play right or account for his moves. Mr. Gaw has a bair that has a huge amount of priority and range and a very long lasting hitbox. The bair aka the "turtle" beats most of marths aerials so just wait for a safe time to grab him or ftilt. Gaw can KO Marth at VERY low percentages with his up smash, down smash, or fsmash, so watch out for those. His dsmash comes out fast and can be used out of Gaw's dthrow. He can also anticipate your roll and there you go...your upsmashed and ko'd at 65%. <_<
The hitbox of Gaw's fsmash also lasts for some time, so be aware of that when spot dodging or rolling.
Otherwise...Gaw doesnt have too good a projectile so Marth can basically camp his way to victory with well spaced fairs and dtilts. Take your time and you shouldnt have too much a problem. Tippers will destroy Gaw very quickly as well.
For edgeguarding, you can hit or grab Gaw out of his up b for a quick ko. Im pretty sure you can dair him as well (like snakes up b).
The hitbox of Gaw's fsmash also lasts for some time, so be aware of that when spot dodging or rolling.
Otherwise...Gaw doesnt have too good a projectile so Marth can basically camp his way to victory with well spaced fairs and dtilts. Take your time and you shouldnt have too much a problem. Tippers will destroy Gaw very quickly as well.
For edgeguarding, you can hit or grab Gaw out of his up b for a quick ko. Im pretty sure you can dair him as well (like snakes up b).
3xSwords
Smash Lord
In this matchup you have advantage in terms of air speed. G&W has no aerial with better startup than your primary aerials nair and fair. (his nair might but that's not the main problem)
You can use this to your advantage. Aerial grab release than has applications. Although you don't have a guaranteed hit like against MK, you still have an advantage. So if you can master following up from grab releasing post lag, than you can get right in G&W's face just as he is getting out of grab release animation
This leaves him only two options: upB and spotdodge. If you do a fair he will be beaten in all other cases. Most G&W's won't realize they should upB, but if they do you can dodge it with proper spacing and then punish the descent. If they spot dodge you can follow up with another aerial after fair to catch him.
This is one way to use marth's aerials' speed against G&W hope it helps. Also grabbing G&W out of his upB is so rare. As he has invincibility and can sweet spot. Just hope he misses the ledge and hit him at the peak of his jump for free%.
You can use this to your advantage. Aerial grab release than has applications. Although you don't have a guaranteed hit like against MK, you still have an advantage. So if you can master following up from grab releasing post lag, than you can get right in G&W's face just as he is getting out of grab release animation
This leaves him only two options: upB and spotdodge. If you do a fair he will be beaten in all other cases. Most G&W's won't realize they should upB, but if they do you can dodge it with proper spacing and then punish the descent. If they spot dodge you can follow up with another aerial after fair to catch him.
This is one way to use marth's aerials' speed against G&W hope it helps. Also grabbing G&W out of his upB is so rare. As he has invincibility and can sweet spot. Just hope he misses the ledge and hit him at the peak of his jump for free%.
Nibbity
Smash Journeyman
Steel, you don't seem pumped. I miss your "GO!"s, instead of a Go.
Gaw's movements are obviously the most unique, just seeing how he walks proves it. In a way it makes him more unpredictable, but it's nothing we can't handle.
His B attack, the bacon move isnt too useful in this matchup because of it's lack of range, and a brickwall of fairs seems like the best way to go about things because you outrange Gaw in many ways and he will have to try to get to you to attack. A nair would be nice, but Gaw is a shorter character which sucks.
The turtle is obviously something to worry about, but IMO ground game is the best for this one, easy to hit him with because his attacks are somewhat on the slow side (the chair, manhole, flag U smash, and F smash remain most dominant in my mind) and it will be easy to out range those attacks with your shieldbreaker also.
Thanks 3x3 Swords, I was gonna ask about the upB, looks like it's pretty troublesome, so no gimping im assuming.
Gaw's movements are obviously the most unique, just seeing how he walks proves it. In a way it makes him more unpredictable, but it's nothing we can't handle.
His B attack, the bacon move isnt too useful in this matchup because of it's lack of range, and a brickwall of fairs seems like the best way to go about things because you outrange Gaw in many ways and he will have to try to get to you to attack. A nair would be nice, but Gaw is a shorter character which sucks.
The turtle is obviously something to worry about, but IMO ground game is the best for this one, easy to hit him with because his attacks are somewhat on the slow side (the chair, manhole, flag U smash, and F smash remain most dominant in my mind) and it will be easy to out range those attacks with your shieldbreaker also.
Thanks 3x3 Swords, I was gonna ask about the upB, looks like it's pretty troublesome, so no gimping im assuming.
Ulevo did GO! I'm doing Go. until I think of something better.
Nibbity
Smash Journeyman
very nice improvement, i'm completely satisfied haha. thanks.
crazn137
Smash Journeyman
Hey Steel, check out this link for face ideas :D The better ones are at the very bottom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_emoticons#2channel_style
I'd try to give my input in on this match, but everything I know has already been said.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_emoticons#2channel_style
I'd try to give my input in on this match, but everything I know has already been said.
K..
Go ^_^
or
Go ⊂（ﾟДﾟ⊂⌒｀つ≡≡≡(´⌒;;;≡≡≡
Go ^_^
or
Go ⊂（ﾟДﾟ⊂⌒｀つ≡≡≡(´⌒;;;≡≡≡
Nibbity
Smash Journeyman
...what is that second one??!?!
crazn137
Smash Journeyman
Someone sliding across the floor...he cries at the end >_>
Anyways, question. Is it recommended to try and gimp G&W when he isn't very far off the stage? His quick up B has stopped my attempts to gimp him. Would a better idea be trying to juggle him instead?
Anyways, question. Is it recommended to try and gimp G&W when he isn't very far off the stage? His quick up B has stopped my attempts to gimp him. Would a better idea be trying to juggle him instead?
Nibbity
Smash Journeyman
oh. Not a smart move i'd imagine. That hurts, man.
I wouldn't, but I have a slight paranoia of his up B. If he is smart, he might up B no matter what seeing Marths set up for a spike. He could also blow you up in the air with his U air, hurting your chances.
Overall, I wouldnt recommend it in most of the chances you can get a good setup.
I wouldn't, but I have a slight paranoia of his up B. If he is smart, he might up B no matter what seeing Marths set up for a spike. He could also blow you up in the air with his U air, hurting your chances.
Overall, I wouldnt recommend it in most of the chances you can get a good setup.
Juggle? Eh? He's the lightest character in the game IIRC, and his Dair has pretty low lag for having such high priority.
Gimping him through off stage aerials to the point where he cannot return or edgehogging (or both) is really the only way. Since his Up+B has invincibility frames similar to yours, as well as rather fast-paced as well, it's an absurdly excellent recovery. There's not much you can do except trying to force him farther off from the stage.
Simply put, gimp him off stage horizontally, don't spike unless you plan to spike him at the height of his Up+B, and even then, he should have grabbed the ledge anyway.
2nd lightest actually. Jigs is 1st.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
I just played with a G&W today. It's never been a hard match-up IMO.
Counter is ftw. G&W telegraphs a lot, and even when he doesn't, it's fairly obvious what his options are. That Bair deserves to be countered over and over.
Dancing Blade OWNS the crap outta G&W because his RD is so hilariously laughable. Fthrow to Fsmash OWNS him too, because even from that low damage it hits him halfway to the death line, and jumping after him with a Fair is just too hard for him (btw, Vietgeek, I love you soooooo much for reminding me about that, I've been ****** with it and my crew hates your guts. You're the best EVAR!)
Dtilt owns his whole ground game, and DB owns him any time he tries to move. His Dair is really easy to see coming IMO, so if you're quick on the counter, attack from below. RARDairing to meteor smash him while he's horizontal.
When he's on the edge, his options off the edge are mediocre. He can ledgehop Nair, which is probably one of his best options, so be ready with a counter. Stand about a tip distance away from the edge, and jump if he jumps, counter if he attacks, and attack with the option of your choice if he does elsewise.
His grab range not awesome, but be ready to tech that down throw. Since Judgment is a horrible approach option, and his grab is mediocre, he may fall back on his actually decent dash attack. It has ******** priority, and will simply clash with most of your moves. That being said, counter it.
Tipper often, and you'll kill him quick. Upsmash is your friend.
Counter is ftw. G&W telegraphs a lot, and even when he doesn't, it's fairly obvious what his options are. That Bair deserves to be countered over and over.
Dancing Blade OWNS the crap outta G&W because his RD is so hilariously laughable. Fthrow to Fsmash OWNS him too, because even from that low damage it hits him halfway to the death line, and jumping after him with a Fair is just too hard for him (btw, Vietgeek, I love you soooooo much for reminding me about that, I've been ****** with it and my crew hates your guts. You're the best EVAR!)
Dtilt owns his whole ground game, and DB owns him any time he tries to move. His Dair is really easy to see coming IMO, so if you're quick on the counter, attack from below. RARDairing to meteor smash him while he's horizontal.
When he's on the edge, his options off the edge are mediocre. He can ledgehop Nair, which is probably one of his best options, so be ready with a counter. Stand about a tip distance away from the edge, and jump if he jumps, counter if he attacks, and attack with the option of your choice if he does elsewise.
His grab range not awesome, but be ready to tech that down throw. Since Judgment is a horrible approach option, and his grab is mediocre, he may fall back on his actually decent dash attack. It has ******** priority, and will simply clash with most of your moves. That being said, counter it.
Tipper often, and you'll kill him quick. Upsmash is your friend.
Hype
Smash Lord
His Bair has so much range, messes up your shield and connot be spot dodged. I usually counter it but that gets perdictable and G&W usually just ends up doing empty short hops then punishign my counter. Does Ftilt out range his Bair approach? I don't think it does but I'm not sure. When every I try to play defencivly I just get ran over by his Bair.
His Safe kill moves! If only marth has them. His Fsmash like many of his other moves has a long lasting hit box and it difficult to spot dodge. Now that I think about it you probebly could Jump cancel Counter into his Fsmashes late hitbox (or any charged smash for that matter), this gives you a kind of sliding counter. His Dsmash and Usmash can be a real problem out of a grab. I Haven't taken the time to master tech rolling his Dthrow, but it would useful if I was consistant at it.
My absolute favourite thing to do with marth, when I facing someone like G&W, Toon Link or other characters that recover low is...after knocking G&W off the map I hang on to the ledge, after my invinability frames are gone it seems like I'm just asking to get stage spiked but, I continue to hang there. When G&W is about to do his up B I drop down and immediatley counter. It's not 100% consistent against Game and Watch but you usually will get the stage spike.
his Dair doesn't bother me at all, I counter it everytime. One thing I will say is watch out for his up B when G&W is jugggling you, he's invincable and it launches him pretty high.
His Safe kill moves! If only marth has them. His Fsmash like many of his other moves has a long lasting hit box and it difficult to spot dodge. Now that I think about it you probebly could Jump cancel Counter into his Fsmashes late hitbox (or any charged smash for that matter), this gives you a kind of sliding counter. His Dsmash and Usmash can be a real problem out of a grab. I Haven't taken the time to master tech rolling his Dthrow, but it would useful if I was consistant at it.
My absolute favourite thing to do with marth, when I facing someone like G&W, Toon Link or other characters that recover low is...after knocking G&W off the map I hang on to the ledge, after my invinability frames are gone it seems like I'm just asking to get stage spiked but, I continue to hang there. When G&W is about to do his up B I drop down and immediatley counter. It's not 100% consistent against Game and Watch but you usually will get the stage spike.
his Dair doesn't bother me at all, I counter it everytime. One thing I will say is watch out for his up B when G&W is jugggling you, he's invincable and it launches him pretty high.
Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Oh, and I forgot, think before you use your second jump. UpAir is annoying.
bumpzors ^
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
If you can get around GaW d-smash and dair, ur in the clear. Pretty much if he is above you, its safe to counter cuz hes gonna dair and its obvious. If GaW starts d-tilt spamming, u should hit him with dancing blade. In this fight u should go for tippers whenever u can. Bairing or fairing GaW out of his diar seems to work pretty well also.
grandmaster192
Smash Ace
How offensive can Marth afford to be in this match up? I haven't actually tried this yet. I usually use MetaKnight against him, but I'm starting to think Marth is a much better option.
BacklashMarth
Smash Lord
So long as u dont run into stuff, u can be as agressive as you want. Agro countering is rewarding in this matchup too. U should try that ledgedrop counter thing hype was talkin about too. Sounds like a win move to me.
This match is all about spacing.
You outrange GW, so use that to your advantage. His smashes are ridiculous and will kill you very early. Don't get hit by them.
If he uses bair on your shield, up b out. If you get caught in it I believe you can smash DI out.
GW is among the lightest in the game, so he should die early.
You also have a grab release on GW, let him jump out and get a tipper fair on him.
You outrange GW, so use that to your advantage. His smashes are ridiculous and will kill you very early. Don't get hit by them.
If he uses bair on your shield, up b out. If you get caught in it I believe you can smash DI out.
GW is among the lightest in the game, so he should die early.
You also have a grab release on GW, let him jump out and get a tipper fair on him.
Retroking2000
Smash Master
reverse up B sends G&W straight up and kills at 90% - 115 %
find a away of setting this move up ,
dont fight him airbone at all he will win
you will attack him he can camp you with neutral B .
then upsmash you were you come near
he can tech chase you with dsmash or to judgement hammers
like i said with the try to kill him up because his upb is really annoying because it glides
marth can only space fairs to shieldupsmash , upB ,
as soon as you see a G&w back turned change your game immediately , focus now on counter and ftilts those clash with the turtle(bair)
to tech chase him
FULL JUMP Dair to UPB techchase or use dsmash if you are unsure on him rolling
find a away of setting this move up ,
dont fight him airbone at all he will win
you will attack him he can camp you with neutral B .
then upsmash you were you come near
he can tech chase you with dsmash or to judgement hammers
like i said with the try to kill him up because his upb is really annoying because it glides
marth can only space fairs to shieldupsmash , upB ,
as soon as you see a G&w back turned change your game immediately , focus now on counter and ftilts those clash with the turtle(bair)
to tech chase him
FULL JUMP Dair to UPB techchase or use dsmash if you are unsure on him rolling
3xSwords
Smash Lord
Is the fair guaranteed? I always thought that it was one of those "he can get out but just barely" options.
Edit: G&W's bair doesn't clash with any move besides projectiles, b/c aerials don't clash. But does Marth's ftilt actually beat G&W's bair in terms of range?
Edit: G&W's bair doesn't clash with any move besides projectiles, b/c aerials don't clash. But does Marth's ftilt actually beat G&W's bair in terms of range?
It's guaranteed. Your timing has to be perfect, however.
grandmaster192
Smash Ace
But what out ranges what? I mean, his bair and dtilt have some nice range, and they spam those a lot. Would I be able to **** him out of his bair with my aerials?
Retroking2000
Smash Master
sounds like to put you thumb on the cstick before haha
at low percent you can to sword dance >B >B >B ^B to upsmash tipper gets him on like 30-47%
at low percent you can to sword dance >B >B >B ^B to upsmash tipper gets him on like 30-47%
Pretty sure fsmash outranges the dtilt, dancing blade too I believe. Can also just SHFair. I don't recommend challenging his bair with your aerials.
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯
Smash Legend
Ya, his Bair is pretty Pwn, I try to counter it or roll away when he uses it. It's not to hard to use counter a lot and have it work every time, because he does telegraph a lot, and for example if he jumps backwards at you, he's gonna Bair, it's very obvious.
Just a little thing I'd like to throw in: Marth's Fair stagespikes G&W at like 50% on battlefield if he's out of invincibility and hanging.
Just a little thing I'd like to throw in: Marth's Fair stagespikes G&W at like 50% on battlefield if he's out of invincibility and hanging.
Your Dtilt also out ranges his.
3x, you have to fullhop toward him and then Fair. Timing has t obe perfect yeah. I haven't played Barlw in 2 weeks so my muscle memory for the grab releases have screwed up, but it's a guaranteed set up if you do it right.
3xSwords
Smash Lord
There is no reliable follow up to any finished DB combo imo. Besides utilt is faster.
@Viet dude don't tell me anything about not playing. I haven't played in like 18 days >_> I'm so desperate over where I am, that I bought a wii numchuck just to practice dash dancing motion and other things. lol
Dash dancing isn't useful anymore. Almost no distance to dictate space control and you can't do a bunch of stuff out of it like you could in Melee anymore.
Anyway, you may have better muscle memory than me, so it might not matter as much. To each their own.
Retroking2000
Smash Master
yes i agree DD is now useless . if*
you cant pivot out of it
you cant pivot out of it
You can sorta pivot out of it, but the space control is so small it doesn't matter. Plus there's tripping, and then there's more tripping.
3xSwords
Smash Lord
Oh but you can
Anyway practicing DD'ing is only to make sure my fingers haven't slowed down. Besides its not reliable since I can only imagine I'm doing it right.
You may occasionally hear me say some random,
"Doh, I'm foxtrotting"
Anyway practicing DD'ing is only to make sure my fingers haven't slowed down. Besides its not reliable since I can only imagine I'm doing it right.
You may occasionally hear me say some random,
"Doh, I'm foxtrotting"
Retroking2000
Smash Master
in about a couple of months tripping wont be a problem
3xSwords
Smash Lord
Well tripping isn't that big of a deal for me anyways. Watever not going to have this turn into one of those "tripping should be out" "no it shouldn't" discussions. There's tacticals for a reason.
Besides I just love randomly DD'ing useful or not, I just like doing it. Makes me feel in control......... of myself at least
Besides I just love randomly DD'ing useful or not, I just like doing it. Makes me feel in control......... of myself at least
Retroking2000
Smash Master
did you lot know that G&W dtilt
clashes with alot of marths attacks man thats a broken dtilt
clashes with alot of marths attacks man thats a broken dtilt
3xSwords
Smash Lord
I call it SH fair takes care of one dtilt at a time
Thankfully the G&W I play doesn't abuse the dtilt as much as he should.
Also against G&W is it better to tech d-throw or not at all? I mean I'm only asking this because teching sets up for a ridiculous u-smash tech chase which he has. So is it better to take the chance of getting hit by u-smash while teching or not tech and get hit by a d-smash, worst case scenario.
Thankfully the G&W I play doesn't abuse the dtilt as much as he should.
Also against G&W is it better to tech d-throw or not at all? I mean I'm only asking this because teching sets up for a ridiculous u-smash tech chase which he has. So is it better to take the chance of getting hit by u-smash while teching or not tech and get hit by a d-smash, worst case scenario.