Diddy Kong's Wall Infinite/Banana Locking (VIDEO ADDED)

AlphaZealot · Jun 27, 2008

1) Diddy can wall infinite. I've been messing with it some and finally tested it against a human opponent today. The timing is difficult, but if you get the opponent against the wall and work two bananas, with the right repetition, they can't get out of it. Got my combo in training mode to 93 (and got it to work against a human for about 10 second intervals before messing up the timing).

2) Banana locking follows the same idea. After you are hit by a banana, there are forced frames were you simply can't do anything. If you hit them with another banana in this window, then the process simply repeats. To banana locking, you can walk and pick up bananas and keep chucking, but I've also found that you toss one (and it hits) then glide toss the next, then toss, then glide toss, etc etc.

If we could master this ****, man, Diddy would be so deadly, but the timing is probably about as hard as keeping up a waveshine infinite in Melee. However, think of the payoffs, all the *****ing people do about D3 would apply to Diddy, except Diddy would not be limited to only 20 characters, he can do this against the entire cast.

VIDEO ADDED
Diddy Kong's Banana Infinite

In the testing against humans I've done I've all but 100% confirmed this as inescapable. The timing is HARD though, it may take a bit to figure out/get. It may also be character specific, I think the duration a character is vulnerable after being hit by a banana may vary from character to character.

Has anyone else messed with this/does anyone else have any other thoughts?

~^.NoiR.^~ · Jun 27, 2008

I haven't tried that. I've done it before, but I wasn't sure if it was bad teching or what. I will definitely master that though. That makes Diddy just THAT much better.

AlphaZealot · Jun 27, 2008

Just think about it: We know if you are hit by a banana, you are open to an attack for a given window, so long as you can hit them with another banana in that window of time, they will be locked down. This **** is hard, but totally possible.

Vyse · Jun 27, 2008

I haven't, but, if you really believe it's as feasible as a waveshine infinite, then it isn't completely out of reach.

At the very least, we should master this for the sake of setting up finishers. In melee I had the waveshine down pat easy, using it from a drill kick -> shine -> Upsmash whenever I could. (Ah man, you're making me want to play Melee now =D )

I'll test this out for myself over the next day or two and see what I can find from this. My first impression is that while it may have the difficulty of a waveshine to maintain (Which is doable), it's harder to setup. Once you get the initial step though, it would just be a matter of keeping rhythm.

Now that we know for certain that we can do this infinitely, it's the next step I'd say.
Banana Locking = Feasible.

~^.NoiR.^~ · Jun 27, 2008

AlphaZealot said:
Just think about it: We know if you are hit by a banana, you are open to an attack for a given window, so long as you can hit them with another banana in that window of time, they will be locked down. This **** is hard, but totally possible.

I'll try it tomorrow after work.

Player-1 · Jun 27, 2008

The highest I've done the wall thing on a human is about high 30's low 40's...the banana lock, I use this a lot in my game actually, but not the glide toss thing that could be interesting to test out

ice_cream_man · Jun 27, 2008

sounds cool and all but wouldn't the lock end once the opponent gets to the edge of the level or the timer on the bananas go out? maybe it could infinite on a wall if you pick up the bananas when they fall down (the bananas plop up when you hit an opponent) and before they hit the ground so that the timer on the bananas doesn't run out, but then there are few tourney stages that have those walls, right? sorry for being a downer, but i still really want you to prove me wrong really badly.

Player-1 · Jun 27, 2008

ice_cream_man said:
sounds cool and all but wouldn't the lock end once the opponent gets to the edge of the level or the timer on the bananas go out? maybe it could infinite on a wall if you pick up the bananas when they fall down (the bananas plop up when you hit an opponent) and before they hit the ground so that the timer on the bananas doesn't run out, but then there are few tourney stages that have those walls, right? sorry for being a downer, but i still really want you to prove me wrong really badly.

Think of this on Delfino Plaza or something. You just keep throwing bananas until they reach their death, like a Dedede chain grab.

Delfino Plaza, Corneria, green greens, Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2, the list goes on...they all have walls

The timer on the bananas shouldn't run out on the wall infinite, because I believe you have to catch them while they're in the air for it to work right

bludhoundz · Jun 27, 2008

I knew you could banana people all the way across the stage, but without a wall it isn't really infinite. It's not really easy to do either, but definitely possible (I didn't know that you had to alternate between normal toss and glide toss).

Do you think there would be a way to turn it around and go back and forth across stages? I think possibly a glide toss down could work (it can get you on their other side if you're close enough to them), and then a reverse dtilt would stand them up and trip them into the banana (depending on %, but dtilt has relatively low knockback), and then you could throw the banana, they'd fall and hit the other one towards you, and then you could restart the banana lock.

xDarkElement · Jun 27, 2008

you cant lock across the stage, they can di out of it O.o

Player-1 · Jun 27, 2008

xDarkElement said:
you cant lock across the stage, they can di out of it O.o

No they can't...

psike · Jun 27, 2008

So wait, you get them against a wall and peg them with alternating nanas? What happens when the nanas end up right in front of them? Is that when you glide toss backwards while throwing forwards?

AlphaZealot · Jun 27, 2008

You catch them (the banana) before they hit the ground (because they bounce slightly up, and hit them again before they have an opportunity to recover from the hit.

And no, they cannot DI. Throw a banana at someone and watch what happens, see how long it takes them to respond, the time period is your window to try and hit them again with another banana, after which, just rinse and repeat.

Everyone should just test this in training mode, go to corneria, pick on opponent(I've tested against Bowser/DK) and start chucking bananas. Try and get the timing as CLOSE as you can to just before you won't catch a banana but instead you will use your neutral A (this is the timing that worked against a human opponent).

I also accidentally had something weird happen, it was like infinite slipping, but I have yet to reproduce the results.

I'm surprised none of us have delved deeper into this, I think all of us who have played Diddy have known this is somewhat possible, lets pool our efforts to find the best timing/methods. If we can learn the set ups and stuff, this will put Diddy at least another tier closer to the real amazingness we all know him to be.

Count · Jun 27, 2008

Nice find..I'll do my best to try and use this and learn about it.

DanGR · Jun 27, 2008

I did it against a friend for about 4 seconds, but it wasn't against a wall. It was nonstop banana throwing, and he kept falling,falling, falling backwards until he reached the side of the stage where I dash attacked and faired him.

AlphaZealot · Jun 27, 2008

Yeap, thats banana locking, which is also inescapable if you can hit them quickly enough.

N4N3RZ · Jun 27, 2008

This does work, I've been doing it for awhile now and whenever I get the chance on Delfino I always try to get them against a wall.

ice_cream_man · Jun 27, 2008

doesn't seem extreeeemly hard, maybe cuz i usually play against my n00b brother, but it is only really practical on stages with walls. i would be really impressed to see anyone constantly pull of, whoever said it earlier, a forward glide toss down, reverse dtilt and then continue in the opposite way until you reach the other edge, and then just repeat. THAT sounds difficult, and almost impossible but if some people could pull it off than ****, diddy's broken.

Blistering Speed · Jun 27, 2008

Just so everyone knows this, All stages with permanent walls e.g. Corneria have been banned in tournament. PS 1&2 and stuff are still good though

I would have spoken on this before, but I always assumed it was fairly common knowledge against the wall. Just get the beat in training mode against DK/Bowser on Corneria and it's fairly easy to do consistently.

iMeeHow · Jun 27, 2008

When i mained Diddy i used to do this by accident and not even notice im locking them but yea I think its easier if u Jump cancel toss becuase you can get to the next banana alot quicker but ure Jump Cancel tosses have to be really quick

~^.NoiR.^~ · Jun 28, 2008

IF you mean just stand there next to where the bananas fall and just keep pressing A then that doesn't work. They can tech out of it. I tried it yesterday with a friend. Maybe put a video up?

AlphaZealot · Jun 28, 2008

Just so everyone knows this, All stages with permanent walls e.g. Corneria have been banned in tournament. PS 1&2 and stuff are still good though

I would have spoken on this before, but I always assumed it was fairly common knowledge against the wall. Just get the beat in training mode against DK/Bowser on Corneria and it's fairly easy to do consistently.

This depends entirely on what part of the country you live in.

IF you mean just stand there next to where the bananas fall and just keep pressing A then that doesn't work. They can tech out of it. I tried it yesterday with a friend. Maybe put a video up?

I'll have to make a video I guess, but yea, just stand there and keep chucking basically. You have to do it FAST, otherwise they will get the opportunity to roll after the trip. You cannot tech a trip, you will always fall on your butt (after which you can roll), and the bananas do not hit you hard enough to allow you to wall tech.

~^.NoiR.^~ · Jun 28, 2008

AlphaZealot said:
This depends entirely on what part of the country you live in.

I'll have to make a video I guess, but yea, just stand there and keep chucking basically. You have to do it FAST, otherwise they will get the opportunity to roll after the trip. You cannot tech a trip, you will always fall on your butt (after which you can roll), and the bananas do not hit you hard enough to allow you to wall tech.

I'll try again later. My problem was that the bananas don't fall fast enough.

AlphaZealot · Jun 28, 2008

Diddy Kong's Banana Infinite

In the human testing I've done I've all but 100% confirmed that, with the right (very hard though) timing, this is a true, inescapable infinite.

N4N3RZ · Jun 28, 2008

I lold cause this is really old stuff, I don't understand why people don't do this regularly =/

AlphaZealot · Jun 28, 2008

shrug, cause no one has released a video until now lol.

I think every Diddy nana locks at least some.

BrawlBro · Jun 28, 2008

N4N3RZ said:
I lold cause this is really old stuff, I don't understand why people don't do this regularly =/

I think you dont see it too much in matches because the setup is kind of hard, lets say your on FD and you want to nana lock on opponent across the stage. You have to be positioned on the very edge and they have to be in front of you in range to get hit with a tossed nanner. You also have to take the time to get both bannanas out and in postition to lock with.

The thing with nana locking is its not hard to time, but the set up is hard. Think of it this way, IC chaingrab timing is much harder to do, but the set up is much easier,all you need is to land one grab to get it started. To start up a bannana lock you have to get out two bannanas and be in the correct position on the stage, your opponent ususally does not just stand there and allow you to do this.

Thus its easy in training harder in matches, nonetheless a very useful diddy technique.

theONEjanitor · Jul 2, 2008

the banana lock we've known about, but i dont think anyone has produce a TRUE lock, that locking stuff that paool used to put in his vids could be gotten out of. adding the glide to it is the key.

its not that hard to set up really.

the infinite is hard. I tried it this evening and couldn't really get the timing down consistently. stages with walls are being banned nowadays anyways.

good stuff though. more thought should be def be put into this

diddykongsnaners · Jul 2, 2008

ive doon that before, and i used it on...marth snake, uhhh....dedede and zelda

and this was a long time ago when i was still a diddy n00b lol

IDK · Jul 5, 2008

this is basically way easier IMO than the waveshine.

AlphaZealot · Jul 5, 2008

Not really, the waveshine was really easy once you had the technical aspect down, there was no timing/precision required, it was simply "if you land a drill shine against x character, then just waveshine them until you hit an edge", as for infinite shining, well, that was a *****, true.

For nana locking, its more about the set up, precision, and timing (can't throw to early or to late). That said, there is a level of technical skill required too, more so than most characters in Brawl (and one of the reasons I like Diddy).

denizen · Jul 8, 2008

wall infinite for diddy...gonna try this now!

Killress · Jul 9, 2008

Dude. That is sick. I will have to learn this. Great find!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMq75wu5Eo8&NR=1 (sorry, i thought this would be an appropriate istuation for this

)

Diddy Kong's Wall Infinite/Banana Locking (VIDEO ADDED)

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