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Guide for an ADVANCED Pit

kupo15

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Related article: FYI Pits: Learn these AT's!!

Don't be offended by the way this post is worded. It is suppose to be very direct and not wordy so it can be clear. We not saying you must do these, they are only suggestions so you can learn from our mistakes!

By kupo15:
1. Basics Before AT's

Pit has a lot of great AT's. However, it is important to know the basics such as timing, range etc before you spend a lot of time learning the ATs. They CAN be overused and abused to a point where it is ineffective. This game does not need AT's to be an excellent player. It compliments the basics to make you a superior player.

2. Know when to use your arrows

After looking back on some of my recorded matches, this is what I noticed. I usually use an arrow inbetween hits naturally, but sometimes using an arrow isn't the best option. Ex: If you hit an opponent away and they fail to tech so that they land on their back, you do NOT want to hit them with an arrow. As much as we would like to show off our arrow accuracy by hitting them the second they are on the ground, the better option is to run to them and react to how they get up.

The reason why this is better is because of control. Control in the match is very important and when they are on the ground, they are still at the disadvantage because they only have 3 options. Also, no matter which option they choose, there are a couple frames of vulnerability to land a Bair if you want. By hitting them with an arrow from afar, this brings them to their feet so you are basically surrendering control of the match at that given point.

Conclusion:
Option 1: Shoot them on the ground and they will get up, the combo is finished.
Option 2: Wait for the right moment when they get up and you can continue the combo with ANY move. You might even get lucky that they fall off the ledge and land on their back on the floor below them.

This is basic stuff you saw in Melee esp in BF. I am just pointing out that waiting for them to get up is better then shooting them while they are down.

3. Wing dash vs Wing shove

Wing shoving is using the natural wind push from the startup of the WoI. The application on this is the Wing cancel. At times, wing shoving is better than wing dashing because wing dashing (which has wing shoving in it) against certain moves will space you too far away to retaliate.

In these situations, a Wing shove is better because it gets the job done while keeping you close. So you need to decide when to wing dash and when to wing shove. Wing dashing is used when you would still get hit after a wing shove and for general spacing applications. And don't forget that wing dashing isn't only used for retreat, but for advancing (while blocking projectiles) as well.

4. Usmash? No!!! Do an Utilt!!!

I can't tell you how much I hate this move. Compared to Ike's Usmash, which is the best in the game IMO (multi directional), Pit's Usmash is the most directional move ever with the smallest hit box (or so it seems). Do not try to do this move to an opponent on the ground because you will miss them most of the time except the big ones. You even miss trying to hit an opponent in the BF platform above you. You better hope they drop through or else you will miss them or knick them. The hitbox is slightly below the tips of the blades vs the Utilt where the last one seems to be past the kick. So unless you are right on top of the guy, they happen to fall right on top of you, or you are doing a hyphen Usmash, Utilt is a much better option IMO.

With three, spaced, slightly drawn out hitboxes, more combo friendly,and the ability to dodge low moves, I think this is a better move then that dumb Usmash! If someone can tell me how to use this move effectively, I will change this around because I miss with that move so much!!!

Edit: This move isn't too bad, just make sure you know how to use it or else things will be bad for you!!

5. Dash attack

Don't use this move unless want to get punished or you are confident that it will hit an opponent at a fairly decent damage. This, IMO, is Pit's slowest move because the lag is so tremendous that you will get hit back after connecting with this move. So use this move when you see an opening and you are desperate to land a hit at higher percent ONLY. It has some combo potential but the lag makes it hard.

6. Controlling Unexpected Knockback

There are some moves that move the opponent backwards instead of forward depending how you execute it. An example would be the Fair or Ftilt. I want to point out that you can do a sweetspot Bair in the wrong direction and still hit them forward. This can be good for the times where you want to knock them forward but can't turn around. To do this with aerial requires a Fast fall aerial on top of them.

These situations DO occur and here is one (not the only one). Ex: You are planning to do a Dthrow>Bair. So you jump, maybe too soon, to realize they DIed in the direction you didn't expect that doesn't set up for a Bair. You can still do it.

7. Nair

Nair-Talk about a moving shield! This move acts like an Angel Ring but better because it is faster and is easier to control. The graphics of this move is deceiving almost like Snake's Ftilt because the hitboxes are actually pretty far in front of Pit and is at the outer edge blades, maybe slightly further. One of the most effective ways to use this move is to retreat slightly, kinda like you are drawing them in.

Why is it best to retreat at least at the start of the move? Because if they DI towards you or you move towards them, they will get inside the hitbox and not get hit with every slice. It is really good for aerial spacing while keeping them at bay and the priority is pretty good.

Not only is it good for retreating, the middle to end of the move is great for approaches. You can advance with wall of controllable hitboxes in front of you. The middle to end animation also cancels projectiles such as Pit's arrows

The Nair can be a great replacement of the Uair after a down throw. If they DI away after the throw, the Nair helps you to follow up with an attack better because the hitbox is closer to them from the start. Also, the chances of getting punished by them air dodging the Nair is much lower since you are retreating slightly with literally a moving shield that continues until you land on the floor.

You want to really mess up Metaknight? This move counters their Side B (and tornado I think) better than words can describe. Once you see them use the side b, do a short/full hop retreating Nair while matching the exact speed that they are moving at you. You will be amazed at the effectiveness of this move if used correctly.

Contrary to popular belief, this is not an auto canceled move!

Additional info by Monjula:
Also, recovering when you grab an edge...I like to hit jump (vaulted into the air,) and immediately Nair. It catches people by surprise often.

8. Fsmash vs DSmash

They are both great moves but I am telling you to use caution with the Fsmash. Many times I have used a Fsmash for the kill and it has failed because my opponent DIed out of the first half of the attack. That was because he was too close so he popped on the other side of me. In these situations when I want to get them off the ledge for sure, I use a Dsmash because the first hit sends them flying. And if they DI correctly, the knockback sends them basically in the same direction as a Fsmash.

Additional info by Teh_pwns_the
A little something something I've noticed is that if you are about the range from a person that you would be able to land one of jigg's rests, you can Dsmash and hit them with the first and second swipe potentially doubling the damage.

9. Angel Ring vs. Mirror Shield

Both reflect but which one is better? The best way is to compare and contrast these two moves:
Angel Ring:
-Bigger surface area for easier reflecting
-Has reverse reflecting capabilities (if they are behind you and miss)
-Can reflect and deal damage
-Has an AT attached to it, ART, which helps with approaching projectile characters
-Can only hold for 15 secs
-Pit is vulnerable to well spaced attacks through the Angel ring
-Has a wind push effect as the move ends
-Harder to get behind Pit

Mirror Shield:
-Smaller surface area and angling is needed to reflect high approaching projectiles
-Has super armor when used on the ground
-Can flip enemies around in the startup animation
-Can only hold for 15 secs
-Can block any non grab moves over and over again unless they are really close
-Vulnerable to grabs
-Ending lag is slightly quicker
-Easier to get behind Pit

They both have their uses depending on the situation. Sometimes I prefer to use Angel Ring to reflect if I am already moving because all I have to do is press B. Because Angel Ring's range is so much bigger, it is easier to use this move to reflect moves like Pika's Thunder or Snake's Usmash. If your timing is good, you can trap Snake with a falling Angel Ring while waiting for the reflected mortar shell to come down and hurt him. A rising Angel ring, with ART attached or not, can be good to counter Snakedashing (super hyphen Usmash).

Angel ring is good for dealing with ledge stallers. All you have to do is hold an Angel ring at the right spot over the ledge, and it will slice their fingers at the earliest time causing them to drop from the ledge. Be careful of them rolling from the ledge but a well placed Angel ring should stop them halfway through the roll forcing them back on the ledge.

So using the Mirror shield or Angel ring depends on the situation.

Additional info by Sagemoon:
Using the Mirror shield to flip around Glide attacks is very effective. It throws them off as well as providing an opening

Additional info by Fujiwara:
You can get grabbed by tethers through the Angel Ring.


Additional info by Admiral Bowser:
The Mirror Shield can send certain projectiles back at the opponent faster than the Angel Ring can making the chance of hitting them with it higher.

10. Using the "unsafe" WoI

If you use the WoI while in the air and get hit out of it, then you lose all recovery options. But that shouldn't sway your decision about using the WoI in this context.

Fact: Using an Air dodge puts you in the defensive.

There are some occasions where using the WoI to defend against an incoming attack is better than an air dodge. One scenario is a spike. Because the WoI provides a wind push effect at the start up, you can use this (at the right time) to push them out of range while staying on the offensive. It is a quicker way to recover than from an air dodge and it doesn't affect your mobility...well it does in a good way.

By using the WoI to block intercepting aerials, the WoI make it quicker for you to get back to the stage that the person trying to gimp you giving you an advantage. Also, by the time they recover from the aerial's lag, you should be in a safe position to Bair them without the fear of falling to your death.

If you time the WoI counter too late, then you should get your WoI recovery back at least. The reason is because if you get hit from the WoI at the startup of the move, you don't lose your recovery.

So, use your judgment as to when to use the WoI like this and don't be afraid to experiment. That is what friendlies are for.

11.How Dair you!

Like the Nair, what a great move. Even though it has one hitbox compared to the Nair's many, the Dair's hitbox is huge and it has excellent priority. One of the best ways to use this move is rising for two reasons:
1. It protects you from being shield grabbed
2. At the right %, it leads well into the other aerials or an arrow angled up as you descend

One of the greatest applications of this move is countering any ledge move. If you miss, you are relatively safe because you are rising. Also, this move is better to RAR at times so that the foe is at the same side the blade comes out.

The only thing to avoid is using this when they are at low % because the knockback will cause them to rise at the same height as you and they can attack you as you recover from the lag.

12. Good Pits don't get gimped

This should never happen at least against anyone other than Pit or ROB. But even then, it should happen rarely unless you are experimenting, then it is ok.


13. Winglanding is important

You should familiarize yourself with winglanding. Wing landing is the ability to cancel your wings on the ground, using the Dair, AFTER the startup of WoI without lag from the aerial. This means that you should also be good at Divebombing, which is Pits super fastfall using the WoI, into a wing land.

The reason why this is important is so you can reach the ground quicker to return to battle fast and regain footing. Trust me, it comes in handy.

14. Uair kills

If you get your opponent in multiple hits of the Uair, then they can DI to either side of you when the attack is over. The technique, which is very hard, is to hit them with the very last hitbox of the move that way they go in the direction you hit them.

This is useful for chasing an opponent off the stage at a point above you where the only move you can hit them is with a Uair. Hitting them with the last hitbox will knock them in the direction towards the kill zone instead of them DIing to safety.

15. Look for the "jab lock"

Believe it or not, Pit has a small jab lock with these two moves: Fair, Ftilt and the weak Bair (maybe Nair) It is a small one because you can only lock them with one move only and at low percents 0-40ish due to the lag of the aerial. If they fail to tech, you can hit them with one of these moves and they will do one bounce.

Despite it not being like Mario's, it is still effective and here is why. Whenever a character gets caught in a "lock" of any kind (jab or laser), they have NO choice but to stand up without an attack. This means they can't roll or use a get up attack which will set you up for the next move. With proper timing, this guarantees a Bair or anything you want to do afterwards and I mean ANYTHING.


16. Item manipulation

Just because Pit doesn't have a projectile that acts like an item, doesn't mean you should not learn how to manipulate them the way those who do can. The reason being is because you WILL face those who have items and you should learn how to control them like they do since you can pick them up. Main characters include (but not limited to) Snake, Diddy, and ROB.

Things you should be good at are:
-Glide tossing in any direction
-Quick item pickups with Wingdashing
-Charged Smashes with holding Items

17. Countering combos By Apollo317

When you are falling down near your opponent (just after they hit you, so you are flailing around), I've noticed that if you use AR right as you hit the ground it can totally catch your opponent off guard, who was about to punish you. Of course don't use this all the time, if they predict it they can roll, but it is way to fast to react to. Another option that is far better than teching or just flopping on the ground is to to a wingland. Do that most of the time and throw in some unexpected ARs.

However if you are falling right next to your opponent and they are trying to combo you, most people will airdodge, but that is a little risky. For instance if Ike does his usmash, it will hit you anyway due to landing lag of the air dodge. If you know your opponent is going to do something like this, use mirror shield, it works like a charm.


Additional info by Ryos4

If they are ground based and send u horizontally. I find a quick arrows will not only help you regain your footing so you don't stumble, but will also prevent people from using a follow up attack such as dash attack/grabs. Though if they are short you will have to actually aim, and thats always bother some.

18. Go for the headshot (or toeshot) By NxC

This is something I do by instinct since my friends play TLink/Falco/Other characters that can block/reflect bolts if shot in a straight line. We also play item matches a lot (to my dismay), and Franklin Badges can and will come out of nowhere. It's not applicable in all situations, but just hear me out.

Avoid firing straight arrows at characters that can reflect. If there is even the slightest possibility of a reflection occurring, and you aren't spaced far enough apart to counter-reflect, you can easily get punished. Arc your arrows- either tilt down and then up to 'chin' them or arc up and then down to 'forehead'. If a reflection occurs, the arrow will be diverted away from you.

I understand there are a lot of situations where you can't curve arrows in time, and if your opponent is anticipating a curve, you can surprise them with a straight arrow.

Additional info by kupo15

Be conscious of how you approach with the curved arrows against reflectors. I have actually gotten hit by a curved arrow reflected back at me because I did a short hop rising curved arrow while advancing. I got hit by the arrow since I was in the air right at the spot I shot from so it acted like I fired a straight shot from the ground.

Additional info by Monjula
Yes, avoid the straight arrows. Use them if you're fighting anyone without a reflector at your own discretion, and keep in mind that they are useful for recovering.

19. About the ledge by Fujiwara
Reference image:

There are three distances for guarding the edge with Pit. The red line explains itself: It is hard to mirror or block a recovery-move and depends on the angle of your Pit and the other player. Ike is an exception to this.

In the yellow line you can for sure go down and try to mirror his recovery-move. According my experience people tend to see my attack from above with an Down A move. Try always to attack from the same height and not above or under the opponent. An mirrored attack grants most of the time a lose to the other player because most people don't think that you will do something similar to Marths Counterattack. Don't try to use it every time... change between attacking, mirroring or do nothing (yes, it really works and the people even try to save themselves even when it's to late then)

Ganon is an exception because both recoveries are grabs. Do not do this with him because chances are, you will get suicided.

The green line (outside of the screen) is fairy nice for spamming your arrows. If you don't hit the player within the first two arrows, consider to take the first step and going in his direction.

Additional info by kupo15
On flip side trying to recover, I find that it puts you in a better position when aiming for the stage and not the ledge. Good players tend to be less affected by the ledge hop Uairs and Nairs so it puts you at a slight disadvantage. I would say go for the ledge if it is the safest at the time or its your only option. You can surprise them by not grabbing the ledge since most players abuse the auto ledge snap.

20. Edge guarding: Arrows vs Wing renewal by CorruptFate

Arrows are nice if they are below the stage as it can eat their jumps and doesn't put you in any unneeded risks from spikes or stage spikes. If you are really good with your timing, then you should be able to hit them as soon as they use their second jump.

On the flip side if they are over the stage DIing back, arrows won't do a thing as they have little knock back and the opponent will just need to air dodge as they come back. Jumping after them with a wing renewal, wing piviot, bair (or any aerial) can be the most deadly thing in this situation. Even if you they hit you, may cause them to fast fall, and if you do hit them with your bair pinged it will kill them unpinged it should kill them. With the wing renewal, you can get back or fight them out there if needed.

This shouldn't be done to many characters as they can spike you but you can cancel this with your up b if you time it right. Keeping pressure on the player trying to recover is usually better than arrows. Use your best judgment but generally, wing renewal is good for when they are above you and arrows are good for when they are below you.
 

Crystanium

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Good tips, kupo15. I have a question though. About your first advice, what do you mean? I am getting the idea that you're saying that you shouldn't use the Palutena's Bow after hitting your opponent. I am able to hit my opponent and then fire an arrow, which puts more stress on him or her. Is this what you're advising all Pit players to not do?
 

kupo15

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Yes kinda. If they are in the air, by all means shoot an arrow. But if they land on the ground without a tech, do not shoot. Ex: On battlefield, you knock your opponent with lets say a Nair which hits them on the platform. They don't tech or air dodge which has them lying on the floor. You could shoot an arrow while they are on the ground because that is whats natural and deal another 3%.

The problem is by shooting that arrow, you just ended the possibility to continue a combo because they are now on their feet with every defensive/offensive option at their disposal. In this ex what I am telling you is wait for them to get up, then continue your combo. If you time it right, you can land any move no matter what. I'd rather be sure I will land a Bair than deal 3%. By using another aerial, the pressure is more intense then just an arrow.

Conclusion:
Option 1: Shoot them on the ground and they will get up, the combo is finished.
Option 2: Wait for the right moment when they get up and you can continue the combo with ANY move. You might even get lucky that they fall off the ledge and land on their back on the floor below them.

This is basic stuff you saw in Melee esp in BF. I am just pointing out that waiting for them to get up is better then shooting them while they are down.
 

Crystanium

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All right. I don't shoot arrows at anyone who hasn't teched. They'll sometimes have invincibility frames, which makes it pointless for me.
 

rezen1337

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He just means that shooting the arrow that only does 3% isn't worth it. It's better to just attack them as they get up because it can lead into more combos since you have more control.
 

NxC

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5. Go for the headshot (or toeshot).
This is something I do by instinct since my friends play TLink/Falco/Other characters that can block/reflect bolts if shot in a straight line. We also play item matches a lot (to my dismay), and Franklin Badges can and will come out of nowhere. It's not applicable in all situations, but just hear me out.

Do not fire straight arrows.

If there is even the slightest possibility of a reflection occurring, and you aren't spaced far enough apart to counter-reflect, you can easily get punished. Arc your arrows- either tilt down and then up to 'chin' them or arc up and then down to 'forehead'. If a reflection occurs, the arrow will be diverted away from you.

---

I would also like to say that I disagree with your stance on usmash, kupo. Your inability to understand the hitboxes and KB direction should not be a rule to follow for people learning Pit.
 

kupo15

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Ok http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5APAJRp8hc&fmt=18

Look at 0:20. That was a guaranteed arrow shot. If that situation occurs esp on a platform, don't shoot an arrow.

Added another btw.

Nxc: True but I wouldn't say "inability" because I wrote that based off of experience. I just miss with that move all the time and I think Utilt is a better option most of the time. I changed it up a bit. I hope it is a little better. I still don't think Usmash is a good move. It seems way to directional like if they are in the wrong position even slightly, it won't connect. Thats how I feel. Correct me if I am wrong
 

Admiral Pit

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I wouldnt use an arrow at those who are down on the floor anyways. It would waste time and vaulable opportunities.
And that was a nice match
 

teh_pwns_the

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a little something something ive noticed is that if you are about the range from a person that you would be able to land one of jigg's rests, you can Dsmash and hit them with the first and second swipe potentially doubling the damage, now im too lazy to research it in full to find the exact hit box but like i said its around where jiggs would be able to land a rest or for those of you who dont know where that hit box is, its about teh same for landing a dtilt spike (basically right on top of them) Anyways i figured this would be a nice thing to add in
 

kupo15

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I added NxC and Teh_pwns.

NxC: I don't completely agree with your statement of "do not fire a straight arrow." While for the most part you want it to curve to throw off your opponent or prevent reflection, straight arrow has its uses. I can't think of any situations atm but one should use the straight arrow.

Teh_pwns: This only happens at low percent, right? And does it work every time? Two things I think should be mentioned.

Thanks admiral and that is why I pointed it out. I did this alot and realized my loss of an opportunity just recently.
 

Apollo317

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I've got a tip. When you are falling down near your opponent (just after they hit you, so you are flailing around), I've noticed that if you use AR right as you hit the ground it can totally catch your opponent off gaurd, who was about to punish you. Of course don't use this all the time, if they predict it they can roll, but it is way to fast to react to. Another option that is far better than teching or just flopping on the ground is to to a wingland. Do that most of the time and throw in some unexpected ARs. However if you are falling right next to your opponent and they are trying to combo you, most people will airdodge, but that is a little risky. For instance if Ike does his usmash, it will hit you anyway due to landing lag. If you know your opponent is going to do something like this, use mirror shield, it works like a charm. :)
 

NxC

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I'll admit my wording was a bit off on my suggestion. Replace "Do not fire straight arrows." with "Do not fire straight arrows at characters that can reflect." or "Avoid firing straight arrows."

I understand there are a lot of situations where you can't curve arrows in time, and if your opponent is anticipating a curve, you can surprise them with a straight arrow.
 

Monjula

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I don't have anything to contribute. I just want to say this thread is made of everything that composes 'win'. Not only is it useful, but you actually put a ALL the good things on the front page. I don't know how many times I've gone through threads that have potential, only to get to the third page of spam and do a /facepalm.

EDIT: Cancel the 'nothing to contribe' part of this post. I have to say something against the straight arrow thing. Agreed, do not use against those with reflectors. However, I don't see the harm in straight recovery arrows. ((Knocked off the edge, getting Pit aligned with the stage and firing to avoid edgeguard. This opens up gliding or WoI to get to the edge quick with less chance of a punish.))
 

kupo15

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Thanks for the comment Monjula. I always try to constantly update the OP to my responses. I have edited the arrow one. Is that better Monjula and NxC?

Monjula: Firing a straight arrow, while recovering, with the potential reflection could still be a bad idea. It could hit you on the jump after the shot unless you were thinking about firing one at the right time where you are recovering from the lag under the stage to avoid the reflected arrow. Thoughts?
 

Monjula

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Thanks for the comment Monjula. I always try to constantly update the OP to my responses. I have edited the arrow one. Is that better Monjula and NxC?

Monjula: Firing a straight arrow, while recovering, with the potential reflection could still be a bad idea. It could hit you on the jump after the shot. Thoughts?
Yea, I just got to thinking about that.

That and the fact that the opponent could jump to avoid.

So, my edit was going to be:

Yes, avoid the straight arrows. Use them if you're fighting anyone without a reflector at your own discretion, and keep in mind that they are useful for recovering.

>.>
 

kupo15

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added but I think you posted before seeing me edit my last post. I asked, "It could hit you on the jump after the shot unless you were thinking about firing one at the right time where you are recovering from the lag under the stage to avoid the reflected arrow."
 

Monjula

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I wasn't thinking that. My approach is too direct, I always go for the closest edge. This being the case, I think a game could be played with a straight arrow, though it would be ridiculously hard to pull off. Reflecting it back. Going to try it with my bro.

EDIT: Tried. Fast fall initiated with shield, and not enough jumps, along with the fact that the arrow was to fast anyway.
EDIT2: Also tried with AR and failed.
 

Corigames

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I still don't believe that the wingdash is so important as to make it into an essentials list, but I guess you can do whatever you want.
 

teh_pwns_the

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hmm with the straight arrows deal, a straight arrow will reach your opponent jsut a little quicker then if you curve it.... and as to the wingdashing thing, it is extremely useful (i cant do it :( ) but it is extremely useful if you know when and where to use it
 

Monjula

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Yea. The post is gewd now. :3
I had a couple other things I was thinking of last night...
Throwing...What percent does Dthrow lose its effectiveness, and how do you personally approach people at low damage after a Dthrow?

Personally, if they're at about...0~30 damage, I like Dthrowing and WoI > Uair. I just found that it was a quicker way to get into the air for a bit of extra damage, though the lighter charas can get out easier, so I just jump for more control.

EDIT: I said I had a few things. I just remembered the others. >_>

Gliding attack into the ground for a no lad hit--What do you use? Normally, I'll glide in and attack, miss and keep sliding, so I'll try to hit with a Usmash or tilt. Ideas?

Also, recovering when you grab an edge...I like to hit jump (vaulted into the air,) and immediately Nair. It catches people by surprise often.

A button mashing vs. 3 hit combo?
 

Fujiwara

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I've some tipps too. Maybe there're good enough for your thread, kupo.

9. Angel Ring or Mirror Shield?
If you're not sure which of the defending moves you should use, remember this little info:

Angel Ring can reflect, does damage, can be broken with Smash-Attacks and grabed
Mirror Shield can reflect, can be turned 180° on ground and in the air before it's visible, mirrors an incoming attack and reduce the feedback of the attack, can also be grabed out of the shield

10. Use your jumps
One great feature of pits mindgames are his jumps. Fake moves, play with their mind, don't get cocky and try to time your moves very well. You can combinate it with the mirror shield or the airdodge for every jump and is very reliable in 2on2 or ffa matches.

11. Someone is coming back to the edge. What should I do?
He's near and will get the edge for sure: Block or mirror his attack with your shield. Depends on the angle. Otherwise go advance and try to knock him down with an bAir when he's not more invulnerable. It depends on timing and mindgames. Overall, it has not a big chance for success, but it may work if you're lucky. Be careful, some players with higher priority than Pits bAir can harm him a lot.

He's somewhere in the middle: Try to use your mirror shield from the same high, not from above. People except you to come above. Don't try to attack people above you. It will probaly ends in an meteor or heavy attack .

He's far away: Use your arrows 1-2 times. If you're lucky, you can smash him with your arrows out. If you don't hit him, consider to take the advance and using your attacks or the mirror shield.
 

kupo15

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I'm glad people are contributing. Thanks! I will read these throughly and get back to you Fujiwara and Monjula. I will try my best to include things I think will be good for the list and those that are posted somewhere else or common sense. As always, feel free to disagree with my decision, I like to involve the community with this and try to be a mediator.

palooka: I find that using Ftilt too early is not a good idea. It is more effective at higher percent because it sends them low and you have a fresh Ftilt to do so. Thoughts?

For what I briefly read, Angel vs Shield.....YES!!! But you can be grabbed from the AR?????? I also have a comment to add to that also. ^_^

I will let you know when I reviewed these. I also changed my criteria a little bit. I want this to be focused on the tiny differences in playing that adds polish to one's game. Its about the little things most overlook to become an even better player

EDIT:
Gliding attack into the ground for a no lad hit--What do you use? Normally, I'll glide in and attack, miss and keep sliding, so I'll try to hit with a Usmash or tilt. Ideas?

Also, recovering when you grab an edge...I like to hit jump (vaulted into the air,) and immediately Nair. It catches people by surprise often.

A button mashing vs. 3 hit combo?
I am not sure about adding the glide and ledge ones TBH. I think the glide is fairly common knowledge and has been posted in another guide. I think I'll add the Nair one because there are other things about it that is good.

Is the last one the Rapid A vs AAA? Idk a lot about Rapid A because it is a little tough on the nunchuck. I don't like the Rapid A too much because of the ending lag and it doesn't set up or continue combos as well as the quick AAA. Even using maybe AA or just A is really good. Discussion about this would be helpful.
 

Monjula

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The reason I brought up the rapid A move was because even though it has some bad lag after the end, you can also lead into an AR afterwards and kick the enemy back a little more. I believe AR has less end lag, too, so...

And about the other two...I just wanted to throw them out there. XD But I do love catching people in that Nair..
 

kupo15

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Oh yea, the Nair is awesome. Your post made me remember how good it was that I wrote an article on it. It was really hard to write because of how awesome that move is lol

How does Rapid A lead to AR? The move draws ppl in leaving you open when stopping it. It doesn't have the small security of Wind push that AR does.
 

Monjula

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Don't stop until they naturally break out of it. Use your own judgment, but I've noticed with some characters, when they break out on the middle or top hit, they fly back and up a little. When they land, they are stunned for a very brief moment, but that opens them up. Let go of the rapid hits and AR.

One thing I was having slight issues with last night though...I fought a Metaknight, who is usually an easy match for me, but he spammed tornado, and I found out quickly how high-priority that move really is. Is there any way to beat it out, or should I stick to dodging?
 

Fujiwara

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For what I briefly read, Angel vs Shield.....YES!!! But you can be grabbed from the AR?????? I also have a comment to add to that also. ^_^
As far as I can remeber, it should be possible with Samus/Link-types. I'll check it for myself later. :) But you can smash through the AR for sure. Happens everytime to me against my favourite Link-Player. Ironicially most time after a good performed AR-attack. :chuckle:

And one more thing to nAir: I wouldn't recommend it. The landing-lag is a real pain. ///edit: Nevermind, I understand it now. Got it from a different point using it.

On the other hand I would write something more about the AAA-Combo, it can cancel attacks and you're the most time the first one who hits after the canceling. Works very well against forward runing or dashing Sonic-Players too!
 

kupo15

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Fujiwara: Idk about tethers but yes, let me know about your tests. AR can be smashed through your right.

About the Nair, it is an Auto canceled move. That means if you perform it correctly, you have abs no landing lag.

lol at using a jab to stop sonic players in their tracks :D

It will take me some time to update btw
 

Monjula

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Oh, and another thing that has nothing to do with anything, but was fun to mess around with...

If you play against a reflector character, and they're on the other edge, you can of course reflect it back and forth until the reflector character gets hit. However, I found out that an uncharged arrow gets 1 more damage and a little more knockback.

Was fun playing around with. xD
 

Monjula

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I need to read me some guides. >_> It's still funny. XD But...Did you get the post before that?
 

kupo15

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oh no, I accidentally skipped over it. I think that the rapid A is kinda self explanatory and can be applied to any multi hit move with any character. But I think a discussion about the importance of the Jabs are good.

About the tornado, you can either shield the whole thing or I believe Nair works wonders.

I will update this later tonight with the AR vs Mirror Shield and possibly the Jabs. Jabs are important to every character so I want to post something that makes Pit's jab unique and effective. Not something that can be applied to all characters
 

Monjula

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Alright cool. I wasn't exactly thinking anything breakthrough, just something that stacks on a couple extra points of damage.
 

kupo15

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Thanks a lot XD And thank you everyone once again for contributing to make this a success.

Fugiwara: I am having trouble reading your post on the AR vs Mirror. Can you re word it to be more clear? Be more specific with who is getting turned around. I am also having trouble with the ledge advice. What kind of attack is he doing? Where is he when you attempt a Bair? Stage spike? We also don't want to have "luck" involved lol just pure control to eliminate luck.
He is in the middle:
In the middle where? Does this pertain to the ledge scenario? Same question for "he is far" although I think that is more common sense to use arrows from a distance.

Clear and direct so I can just copy paste. Thanks ^_^
 

Monjula

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Looking good so far. ^^
 
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