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Snake Eater

Dark_Meow1

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
757
I went to a tournament today. I ended up playing quite possibly the best player in the area first round (which always sucks), but oh well, someone had to. I did fairly well at first with Peach, and then he used Snake, his main.

I thought I had a solid Snake game (no pun intended). However, I suck. I've gotten as far as Toading the Zdashes and such, but the continues spam, speed outbreak, REDICULOUS ftilt and Utitlt, the Bairs that own, the super mean recovery that doesn't care if you float back air it, and on top of all that, the really mean "Now!" mines that everyone loves. Where do you start?

So far, I've gotten:

1. Fair's don't work as well as you want them to.

2. Good snakes don't care about turnips.

3. Edgeguarding is REALLY hard. Dairs work the best I think.

So, where do I go from here. Anyone find anything that worked exceptionally well on Snake?

P.S. :: Snake really hates your glide toss into grabs. REALLY hates it.
 

Morrigan

/!\<br>\¡/
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Mar 10, 2006
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You can chaingrab Snake. He's one of the heaviest character in the game
 

Osi

Smash Ace
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Jul 1, 2007
Messages
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Chaingrab as early as it's safe to on every fresh snake stock

Shield his snake dash and side B as his up smash starts to change things up

Use short hop dair entry into juggle chains when he does a laggy move

Try short hop > toss a turnip at snake > follow it in the air with a fair... most snakes don't mind a turnip hit and get nailed with the fair. If he shields the turnip airdodge land into a grab.

Learn to float above the dash attack hitbox to keep safe when at medium range.

Try to keep control of the grenades and stay away from the side of the stage with a C4.

When snake does a up B recovery jump off stage and side B back towards the stage just below the edge to slam him against it. Snake can't airdodge below the stage without death. This takes some practice to time right and not SD. The floated dair works great too. I like to down throw a turnip and then dair to up B for some damage rack up.

Try to attack in from diagonals instead of vertical or horizontal because he can punish so easily.

Full jump above snake and down throw a turnip to dair works some times too

Hope these little tips help, they are just some of the things I use fighting snake.
 

acv

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
496
Location
VA
learn to use snake and use peach against every character you want except snake.
 

Villi

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
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Location
California
I wrote this on allisbrawl a little while ago so I'll just repost it. Hope it's helpful.

Here's my Snake deconstruction:

All his tilts will kill, you.

Counter: Avoid standing next to him. If you must and you manage to block him, Dair in his face. He might be slow enough that you can roll behind him and DSmash.

His nair lasts a second longer than you would intuitively think. It'll kill you. Same with his dair.
Counter: Don't run into his 4th kick -- it'll be close to the ground if it's ever going to hit you.

Also watch out for his bair. If he's in the air and his back is turned, he will either bair or air dodge if he's smart.
Counter: Come from directly beneath him when possible. Peach's Uair will outprioritize Snake's Dair and Bair. This is a good chance to score some damage or get a high % KO. Snake likes to drop remote mines and explode them as a scare tactic, but if you're approaching correctly, you shouldn't be anywhere near it. You should be able to complete a full double jump and float before he reaches the point where you can uair him. If he air dodges, you are still in control and you can chase him downward with another aerial.

Land Mine: Snake plants a land mine and runs away. You chase him, he shield grabs you and throws you in the direction of the land mine. You attack him, he doesn't grab you, you get scared and roll into the land mine because spacing is funny that way. >.>

Snake plants a land mine, you end up somewhere close to it, snake throws a grenade and explodes land mine and grenade, creating a slightly wider explosion and a pretty distraction during which he can plant a remote mine or an opportunity to dash cancel. Or he can keep tossing grenades.

Counter: Just break it with a turnip and reclaim your territory. See if you can do it while watching Snake, first. The easiest way is with a Z-drop. If you like you could also roll away a couple of paces and see what Snake does in the meantime. Then use the appropriate throw.


Remote Mine: Snake plants a remote mine rolling distance from the ledge, on the ledge, center stage, on a low platform, or on you.

Counter: Remote mines are my favorite mind game. I love to float right above the hitbox -- Snake either knows it or he doesn't. Usually, he'll just explode it. When he plants a remote mine, just bait him to detonate it if you're far enough away from him. If you know when you're going to hit the bomb running, he probably has the timing down, so expect it to go off and know what to do from there. It's a nice opening for a fair a lot of the time (NOW this). If not, Dair is still your best friend.

If he plants it on you (while you're shielding, say), just touch him one way or another and it'll get stuck on him.

Grenades: Are tricky. If Snake is backing away from you, he has a grenade and you didn't see him pull it out. Most Snakes have some visible way of cooking their grenades. My friend likes to pace back and forth, for example. There are a variety of tricks... Cook one, toss another, explode both of them. Toss one, cook one. Explode a grenade with a remote mine or land mine. Hold a grenade and let you hit him because chances are, you're the one who's going to die. Hold a grenade and roll away so that you attack the grenade instead and get exploded. Hold a grenade and air dodge into you, but that's skillz if he gets that to work.

Counter: Fear the grenade you didn't see. It's ok, but don't stop paying attention. Learn to pick up a grenade without punching it. Have the mental coolness to stop running (shield) before pressing A so that you don't dash. Know which ones to avoid and which ones you can toss back. If both of you are holding grenades, the game makes you drop yours when he throws his, so throw your grenade quickly. After you throw a grenade is a good time to approach, because he will have to defend himself.

Missiles: Missiles are a good ledge guard. They're also semi-useful for a safe landing if he pulls one out and drops it immediately. Missiles build up speed if they're going in a constant direction but slow down again if their course is altered.

Counter: Don't stall on the ledge if there's a missile out. You can easily outrun them and punish. He probably won't use them much, but hope he does.

Dash and Dash Cancel: I hate it. He has bogus range and quickness with these. If you anticipate it with your own dash, you clank. If you throw a turnip, he catches or breaks it. If you're into your run long enough that you can sidestep or powershield out of it, you can run back and catch him, unless he dash cancelled, then he's protected by a mortar(!!!). If you block it, he goes passed you, farther passed you if he dash cancels.

Counter: I usually just trot and roll in this situation and then chase him with a fair or a turnip. I think you might be able to beat it with a Dair. Two things I'm thinking might work without having tried it (it works for sonic) is to turn around when he runs toward you and shield. If he dash cancels, you might be able to grab him when he goes passed you -- if he dashes, he'll end up behind you. I think the safest and quickest way to do it would be Turn -> Shield -> Grab attempt -> C-Stick down. If you grab him, you get a free d-throw, if you miss because he dashed, you get a free DSmash. Or, you could shield it and chase his mortar with Toad.



To add some stuff... Dair combos into Dair really easy with Snake. You can do 3 and finish it off with a nair or something for some fast damage. A safe-ish approach is to start floating so that the last kick of your Dair hits him, and use that to combo into other things -- you can also be a little bit higher than usual cause the last kick has longer range. Ftilts to utilts work nice at low percentages. I tend to fight Snake aggressively, just less aggressively than with others.

Fair spammage is really effective for me in this fight since it has such good priority. My Snakes consistently live to 200% before I kill them >.> My killing moves are USmash, Uair, Fthrow, and Fairs off the edge -- fairs break through his Cypher armor.

If you're lucky, Snake will be dumb enough to use the Cypher close to the edge where you can grab him. If you grab the Cypher, you'll take some damage and Snake will fall to his death cause he can't use it again. If you grab Snake, don't attack -- just wait for him to break free as you dangle him over the edge -- he won't be able to use Cypher again. xD I've 3 stocked a few Snakes before they figured out how not to die.
 

Dark_Meow1

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
757
Stitch faces love me, what can I say?

-Brandon(knows you'll lose again)

@Everyone else: Thanks, the chainthrowing thing actually helped out alot in my snake game. That right there puts me up. I play an extremely aggresive Peach (which actually works regardless of what others think). And to land grabs, all you have to do is Glide Toss. If you do it to his face, you land the grab, almost every single time.

I also enjoyed the detailed breakdowns, they did help to! I'm still searching for some good stuff on comboage and whatnot, but hopefully it will work out. I'll post any more news I find, and you should do the same ^.^
 

J-Prep

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
228
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Queens, NY
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Jiggy_lsn
yeah i agree, these breakdowns look promising =)
my best friend mains snake and plays my peach just about all the time, so its kind of stressful dealing with a snake that knows what ur gonna do half the time. hopefully this will put a few new spins on the match!
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
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Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
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Spokane, WA
Here's how you fight a snake :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jxblkSXYhY

Ok, it's just a lvl 9 CPU but it's a beautiful vid anyway.

The trick is to learn to play his explosives game better than he can. Learn how much time it takes for a Snake player to detonate a bomb after he drops it, how long his "Now" animation is, how long his grenades take to explode, the changes in Snake's animation when he's carrying a grenade, etc. Snake players will usually toss grenades at you, then stop and pull a grenade and hold it and throw it right before it explodes and hope it blows up the first grenade with it.

Learn to time how his grenades and you know exactly how long you have until they explode. If you have time, grab the grenade, hold it until the right time, and throw it back. In fact, sometimes this will blow up the next grenade he's throwing at you and hit him. When he places bombs, don't be afraid, learn the hitbox size and you can float right over them- he'll usually detonate them thinking he's got you and the explosion won't touch you. If you just make sure you're not predictable (he has to detonate the bombs in advance by a second) you won't get hit and in fact I like to fight NEAR the bombs because then he has to worry about not blowing himself out. And it's easy to psych him out into premature detonations.

The hardest thing he's got is the dash-cancelled-usmash. Learn the timings of his usmash. If you're far away when he does it, just get out of the way- jumping over it means you'll be hit. If he's close to you, jump up and Dair as he passes beneath you or Bair while moving backwards. You should be able to hit him out of the dash cancel. Get good enough with it and he'll be afraid to dash cancel, which means you win.

Also, if he Usmashes, you can usually Fair him out of it. Think of his Usmash as an open spot. The animation is slow- get in there and hit him and get out before the missle comes back down.

I will destroy any one of yall peach mainers on this thread pm me if you think you can beat me
Will you play Snake? If so, you're on. I suck at WiFi but I can take out Snake.

1. Fair's don't work as well as you want them to.
They do, but not when you expect.

Fair him out of his usmash. Fair him out of his up-B if he does it high. If he does it near the ledge, grab him. You all know the grab kill trick for snake, right? Grab him and don't do any damage and don't throw and he doesn't get his up-B back.

2. Good snakes don't care about turnips.
Yes they do, but you have to place them differently. Toss them at him to rush his recovery when he's off the stage. Don't glide toss into him cause he'll tilt you to death, and it's better to grab his grenades and throw them back at him than use your own projectiles at a distance. The real trick is get him into the air. His aerials suck.

3. Edgeguarding is REALLY hard. Dairs work the best I think.
Edgeguarding a snake is actually REALLY easy to me. Just go after him. The moment he up-B's he either HAS to absorb any hit you throw, or drop the up-B. A lot of times they'll just just to let you hit them with Fair. And remember to GRAB him if he up-B's near the ledge and don't do any damage, let him break out of it with no damage done.
P.S. :: Snake really hates your glide toss into grabs. REALLY hates it.
Yeah, never, ever approach Snake on a ground level. Dair's work well with proper spacing, Ftilt works VERY well at certain times.
 

CedricIzDead

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
216
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Scotland, UK
That was a really good video, and puts me to shame saying I'm a Peach mainer

Peach Bomber/Side-B can take out oncoming missiles. It doesn't explode them, but instead, sends them straight up in the air. This should give you enough time to do a f-smash, etc. or anything you like really.

Use Turnips to explode landmines.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
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That was a really good video, and puts me to shame saying I'm a Peach mainer
TY! But don't forget that it's just a CPU :) I'm really good at comboing but I have things to work on still.

Remember that opening combo on Snake at 0%. Dair, dair, uair, up-B, as done in that video. Works every time if you can connect the first hit at 0% and does 52%.

Peach Bomber/Side-B can take out oncoming missiles. It doesn't explode them, but instead, sends them straight up in the air. This should give you enough time to do a f-smash, etc. or anything you like really.
I noticed this. Really useful because it leaves Snake vulnerable once his missle is veering off in the wrong direction.

Use Turnips to explode landmines.
Wouldn't have thought of this, but I prefer to make a mental note of the landmind positions and try to knock Snake into them. As I mentioned earlier, Snake's aerials are terrible. By throwing him at a landmine you force him to jump before he hits it, which keeps him in the air and leaves him vulnerable to your aerials or even just turnips.

Better yet, if you can knock him toward the mines after he's done his second jump, he'll be forced to up-B to avoid the mine, and that leaves him VERY vulnerable to you. Remember, every time Snake up-B's, he's open. If he's high in the air get him when he falls. If he's low, just slam him with Fair or Bair or anything else you can find. If he's by a ledge, grab him and let him break out with no damage and he dies.
 

LuigiKing

Smash Lord
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Feb 27, 2008
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Praxis here knows what he is talking about. If its the same peach mainer I played at a tourny last week, my Luigi got destroyed. So just a thumbs up to Praxis :) He knows what he is talking about.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
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Hey LuigiKing, you're one of those guys that came up from Idaho at EWU, right? Fun matches :) Thanks!

I did so badly in the tournament though :( Under pressure I try too hard, get overly aggressive and die, lol. And even when I utterly pwn, something bad always happens in the tournaments. Like that Klaptrap on Jungle Japes when my opponent had 200% damage and I was at 30%. :'(
 

EdreesesPieces

Smash Bros Before Hos
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Hey LuigiKing, you're one of those guys that came up from Idaho at EWU, right? Fun matches :) Thanks!

I did so badly in the tournament though :( Under pressure I try too hard, get overly aggressive and die, lol. And even when I utterly pwn, something bad always happens in the tournaments. Like that Klaptrap on Jungle Japes when my opponent had 200% damage and I was at 30%. :'(
i'd recommend only picking that stage against people who are better than you. that's my rule since it gayed me once. if klaptrap kills me, then oh well. but if it kills them, i just beat someone better. hahah

and snake is real hard. I thought i had the matchup too and most snakes are not bad at all, but when you face a really proficient one the matchup feels impossible.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
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and snake is real hard. I thought i had the matchup too and most snakes are not bad at all, but when you face a really proficient one the matchup feels impossible.
See, I've never even felt this. Snake's always been the most fun opponent to fight for me because the mindgames get so complex once his explosives enter the mix. Trying to remember which grenades are cooked and which aren't, which explodes you can use against him, whether or not he already placed a mine or not (if he placed C4 somewhere, he can't blow himself up to get his up-B back when you toss him off the stage), etc. And I've been up against the best Snake in the state (also the #1 player on the power rankings for the state), and I lost, but it never felt impossible- in fact, he's my favorite opponent.
 

LuigiKing

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That klaptrap kill was freaking hilarious though, I have to say. Yeah I played you in a friendly as Luigi, with my pimpin' green controller. I was one of the 4 who drove up only to get butchered in the tourny. I should have beat Deva when I played him though, but as you said, in tourny settings its really easy to panic and get overly aggressive, like I did. I must have rolled into his Dsmash about 14 times, had I not kept doing that it would have been an easy win. I sure do wish I wasn't in the most isolated smash community ever... No way I can get much better if I only have 2 people who are even competant to play against, and even then I'm still the best up here by quite a margin....... *sigh*
 

Mecha Soul

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
92
That klaptrap kill was freaking hilarious though, I have to say. Yeah I played you in a friendly as Luigi, with my pimpin' green controller. I was one of the 4 who drove up only to get butchered in the tourny. I should have beat Deva when I played him though, but as you said, in tourny settings its really easy to panic and get overly aggressive, like I did. I must have rolled into his Dsmash about 14 times, had I not kept doing that it would have been an easy win. I sure do wish I wasn't in the most isolated smash community ever... No way I can get much better if I only have 2 people who are even competant to play against, and even then I'm still the best up here by quite a margin....... *sigh*
Most isolated smash community ever?

Try living in Canada. <_<

That said, I enjoy fighting Snake. dairs seem to get him really good.
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
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Most isolated smash community ever?

Try living in Canada. <_<

That said, I enjoy fighting Snake. dairs seem to get him really good.
Canada? What's that?

I should have beat Deva when I played him though, but as you said, in tourny settings its really easy to panic and get overly aggressive, like I did. I must have rolled into his Dsmash about 14 times, had I not kept doing that it would have been an easy win.
Deva's better than you might give him credit for though. He's the best Link player in the world. He was probably spamming Dsmash because he realized you were falling for it :) He spams Usmash with me because I always go for Dairs and Link's Usmash has a huge upwards hitbox.

And I have yet to beat him, though I've gotten really, REALLY close a few times.
 

Morrigan

/!\<br>\¡/
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Praxis did you always have that Peach combo gif in your sig? It's awesome.

(sorry for the off-topic)
 

Praxis

Smash Hero
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Praxis did you always have that Peach combo gif in your sig? It's awesome.

(sorry for the off-topic)
haha, I've had it for a while on AllIsBrawl and just recently added it on Smashboards. Like a week ago.
 
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