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How to turn brawl into a TRADITIONAL FIGHTER! Check it out! Pics and Vids up.

xS A M U R A Ix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
Messages
656
Location
Raleigh, NC
So me and my friend had an idea with Stamina mode today, so we gave it a shot and played a few rounds in our new format and were pleasantly surprised to stumble onto this great new way of playing the game. I actually think I might find it MORE enjoyable than regular brawl, and it definitely fixes a lot of the complaints with the game, mainly with combos. So without further introduction, let me introduce to you:

HOW TO TURN BRAWL INTO A NORMAL FIGHTING GAME



Version 1:


First you're going to need a custom level. Go to the level editor and pick the largest field size possible. Then, maximize the block size. Starting at the top in the middle, place 5 of the spike rows. Then switch to the square building blocks and place one on each side of the spike blocks, then place 4 more below each of those. Once that's done, fill in the middle with more normal building blocks at the very bottom, you should have room for three.

Basically you want it to be 4 blocks tall by 5 blocks wide, and you'll have a fighting area of 2x3. This is going by the BIGGEST SIZE POSSIBLE ON THE BLOCKS.

Ok now that that's done, go to special brawl and set the match type to stamina. Pick your characters and set their HP to 300. Most standard brawl matches are 3 lives and usually, most lives end around 100%, so 300 HP = 3 lives about. Pick your custom map and when the match starts, you'll be inside the arena ready to fight.

This room is ABOUT the normal dimensions of a standard fighting game screen, it's small enough that the person can't run away all day, but also big enough to give you some room to work with. We were trying to recreate a normal fighting game screen so this should be perfect.

Here's an example:



Another thing of note about this mode is that knock back is not increased with damage. Combos are always possible. This makes the game a lot more fun, but this also means that low % infinites will always work here, so in order to make things fair, you must ban certain things. Here's a rule list for "fair play" to keep from breaking the game:

Rules

- No Chain Grab infinites. If you do your initial grab for the chain grab, you may only follow it up with a different grab. For example with dedede, you can only do down throw into up, left, or right throw.
- No laser / jab locking.
- No inescapable attack infinites. Example: Shine Infinite in the corner with Fox.
- If the person can DI out of your infinite or tech, it's legal, IE neutral A against a wall with a lot of characters.


Version 2

This version requires NO RULES. The level design is different, as it requires a pit at the end to disrupt chain grabs and laser locks, but, that also adds to the fun of it. I've made 2 versions of the level, one with a spring at the end and one with spikes at the end. I think the spikes make it more intense and rewards corner pressure better, as the springs allow for an easy escape from the corner, but you can still do some fun stuff with the springs.

There is a problem with this version, being that Lucario has an EXTREMELY long chain grab which is virtually an infinite on the heavy characters. This can be counteracted by setting the damage ratio to 1.2, but it also takes away from the combo-ness. It's yet to be decided if 1.2 damage ratio would be the standard format for this. Here are some examples of the maps below:




So far that's about it. Now go give it a whirl, it's extremely fun and fast paced since combos are always possible, and it really makes smash feel like an actual fighter.

DOWNLOADS

Maps

I'm not sure which is which, but the 3 stages are the Version 1 level, and the Version 2 levels with spikes and with springs.

http://www.mediafire.com/?dcll1rlg19n
http://www.mediafire.com/?ngjpdggzxyx
http://www.mediafire.com/?gmtndyk9lvy

Vids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwYYlNF5D1w (credit to Swil)

Replays

Until I get some replays uploaded to youtube, if you'd like to transfer these replay files to your game and watch them, feel free.

http://www.mediafire.com/?jtvdxijz13g
http://www.mediafire.com/?mjxnih5gs1m
http://www.mediafire.com/?cmzw10xujmy
 

AlexX

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
651
Personally, if I'm in the mood to play a traditional fighting game, I just play a traditional fighting game.
 

the_judge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
243
Location
Hi desert, Socal
just got done trying this out.

I swear, it feels like a different game.
There should tournies with this "Traditional" setting.

The problem is that MK would be God Tier (maybe even Fox and TL)
 

xS A M U R A Ix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
Messages
656
Location
Raleigh, NC
just got done trying this out.

I swear, it feels like a different game.
There should tournies with this "Traditional" setting.

The problem is that MK would be God Tier (maybe even Fox and TL)
It really does feel like a different game, I was surprised myself.

MK does seem pretty good in it, but so do a lot of other characters. Sonic is suddenly great in this mode, and wolf, olimar, and ZSS don't have to worry about their crap recovery. It actually evens the game out a bit, I think.
 

Viscano

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
199
Can someone post pics of the finished stage? I don't get how to build it. :/
 

xS A M U R A Ix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
Messages
656
Location
Raleigh, NC
My Camera Phone is broke or I would do it. lemme see if i can illustrate how it should be:

V = Dropping Arrow Blocks
# = standard square blocks
- = empty space

# VVV #
# ---- #
# ---- #
# ---- #
#####

Does that help? It looks wider than tall in the game but text won't let me make it look that way, lol.
 

Banjodorf

Dynamic Duo
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Personally, if I'm in the mood to play a traditional fighting game, I just play a traditional fighting game.
I agree 100% with this.


I dont play Smash to play a traditional fighter.....
 

the_judge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
243
Location
Hi desert, Socal
Can someone post pics of the finished stage? I don't get how to build it. :/
Make it a little more understandable.

Just turn size to 3 (maximum size) then surround the entire border (except the top) with blocks, then place 2 falling blocks in there (size doesn't matter) then enjoy

edit: I know smash isn't a traditional fighter, but this makes it 2 games in 1
 

Viscano

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
199
Well, I did it, but it's ****ing horse**** against computers because the computers always go after the human player
 

AlexX

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
651
MK does seem pretty good in it, but so do a lot of other characters. Sonic is suddenly great in this mode, and wolf, olimar, and ZSS don't have to worry about their crap recovery. It actually evens the game out a bit, I think.
Erm, not really... It's quite hampering to larger characters like Bowser, since they're supposed to be able to sustain high amounts of damage before getting KO'd. Having everyone get KO'd at the same amount of damage makes it too hard to use them since they're such a big target, even if they are strong.

Also, ZSSamus doesn't have crap recovery. I don't know why people keep saying she does, but she can also use down+B, or side-B to smack an edgeguarding opponent off before using her up+B.
 

xS A M U R A Ix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
Messages
656
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Raleigh, NC
Erm, not really... It's quite hampering to larger characters like Bowser, since they're supposed to be able to sustain high amounts of damage before getting KO'd. Having everyone get KO'd at the same amount of damage makes it too hard to use them since they're such a big target, even if they are strong.

Also, ZSSamus doesn't have crap recovery. I don't know why people keep saying she does, but she can also use down+B, or side-B to smack an edgeguarding opponent off before using her up+B.
Bowser does loads more damage than most characters though. Even if they do all take the same amount, his damage definitely makes up for his lack of speed. I think the playing field is pretty even.
 

Yuna

BRoomer
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How is any of that turning it into a traditional fighter (and not just being a huge scrub)? Plenty of traditional fighters have infinites.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Funny, usually if i whant to play a tradition fighthing game, i play a traditional fighthing game, i don't try to turn a party-non-traditional-fighthing game into a traditional fighthing game. But i guess you're right, i'm a monster for not doing it.
 

the_judge

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
243
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Hi desert, Socal
Funny, usually if i whant to play a tradition fighthing game, i play a traditional fighthing game, i don't try to turn a party-non-traditional-fighthing game into a traditional fighthing game. But i guess you're right, i'm a monster for not doing it.
Brawl doesn't have to be a traditional fighter.

It just becomes afun little side game, thus making it 2 games in 1.
So u can continue playing normal brawls, theres nothing saying "Every1 has to play like this now"
Consider it like a minigame just for fun.

If you wanna play a wierd new traditional fighter, then try this out.
If not, then don't waist your time complaining and keep playing like u normally would.
 

xS A M U R A Ix

Smash Ace
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Messages
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How is any of that turning it into a traditional fighter (and not just being a huge scrub)? Plenty of traditional fighters have infinites.
If you want it to boil down to falco / dedede getting 1 grab and winning the round, go right ahead. Also there's not many mainstream 2D fighters that see any real play with infinites outside of like.....MVC2, and even then, you get 3 shots at being infinited before you lose, and plus they're really hard to do, unlike grab...grab....grab x infinity. THAT'S scrubby.


Brawl doesn't have to be a traditional fighter.

It just becomes afun little side game, thus making it 2 games in 1.
So u can continue playing normal brawls, theres nothing saying "Every1 has to play like this now"
Consider it like a minigame just for fun.

If you wanna play a wierd new traditional fighter, then try this out.
If not, then don't waist your time complaining and keep playing like u normally would.
lol thank you. I'm not saying you guys have to stop playing brawl the way the game was made, I just thought this was a fun side thing to do and it makes it so there's like 2 games in 1. It's just a nice change if you want to see brawl in a different light, or if you're just bored of the usual stuff. No need to be all defensive, peoples x_x
 

PwnyRide

Smash Ace
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Nov 27, 2007
Messages
638
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Australia
they're really hard to do, unlike grab...grab....grab x infinity. THAT'S scrubby.
No, its not Scrubby. Hey, guys, winning is scrubby apparently.

I tried this, it was OKAY, but not really anything like a traditional fighter. Although it'll give it a half-thumb-up for a nice idea.
 

Kikuichimonji

Smash Apprentice
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Mar 22, 2008
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128
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St. Louis
Winning an entire match by pressing 1 button repeatedly against a wall isn't scrubby? lol
No, it's not. It's not a fun match, but it's not scrubby.

Playing for fun and playing in tournaments are very different things. I can understand banning chaingrabs in friendly matches in order to allow people to play their mains and such. Also, this stage would never be allowed in tournament smash because it allows easy wall chaingrabs. So if you're going to play here, it makes sense to ban them.
 

the_judge

Smash Journeyman
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Hi desert, Socal
From how I heard it used, I believe Scrub means lacking skill.
It doesn't take skill to a button and move the control stick in a certain direction 30 times.

Though it doesn't make pros scrubs for using it 2 win, it is just very scrublike of them. Or I could have used the word SCRUBBY.
Samurai's posts made perfect sense.

Besides, who wouldn't like to bring something as scrubby as a gun to a fist fight.

Ultimate reverse psycotic humor ftw.
 

Kikuichimonji

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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From how I heard it used, I believe Scrub means lacking skill.
It doesn't take skill to a button and move the control stick in a certain direction 30 times.

Though it doesn't make pros scrubs for using it 2 win, it is just very scrublike of them. Or I could have used the word SCRUBBY.
Samurai's posts made perfect sense.

Besides, who wouldn't like to bring something as scrubby as a gun to a fist fight.

Ultimate reverse psycotic humor ftw.
Scrubbiness implies a mindset that blames losing on anything but yourself. It has nothing to do with actual skill. However, being a scrub will limit your growth, because you aren't willing to work to beat those things that dominate you, and instead want them banned/say you "didn't lose."

Scrubby: Whining that you didn't get an A on a test you didn't study for, or studied for wrong.
Not Scrubby: Getting an A on a test that you didn't study for.
 

Browny

Smash Hater
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just got done trying this out.

I swear, it feels like a different game.
There should tournies with this "Traditional" setting.

The problem is that MK would be God Tier (maybe even Fox and TL)
no, Lucario IS god in stamina mode. By the time youve got his HP down to 150% hes pulling out the strongest attacks in the game. d-air does 22% rofl
 

Yuna

BRoomer
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If you want it to boil down to falco / dedede getting 1 grab and winning the round, go right ahead. Also there's not many mainstream 2D fighters that see any real play with infinites outside of like.....MVC2, and even then, you get 3 shots at being infinited before you lose, and plus they're really hard to do, unlike grab...grab....grab x infinity. THAT'S scrubby.
DeDeDe can only (truly) infinite 3 characters (and for two of them, he has to KO them eventually as he can't fully infinite them up to 999%) last time I checked. Falco's chaingrab doesn't even work on that many characters and he has to end it with an attack eventually or people can just DI and aerial out of it.

"You get 3 shots" = 3 rounds

Did you know, Smash is played with 3 stocks and not 1? In other words, you need to be infinited thrice to lose the match.

It's also quite funny how no one renowned is elevating DeDeDe or Falco to Top Tier-level because of these supposedly abusable "infinites". Could it be because they're only doable on a small number of characters and they're also quite gimpable (DeDeDe is one of few characters susceptible to the Ken Combo)?

And to use infinites is not to be scrubby. It's to be "cheap" if anything. You are scrubby.

Did you know that plenty of games outside of MvC2 have infinites or at least just really, really long combos and strings that shave off 50-70% of one's health? Pick a Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection Character, almost any character. Zappa in Guilty Gear's various iterations. Sol Bad-Guy's old Dust Loop, Millia's various infinites and psuedo-infinites throughout the games. Lots of traditional fighters have character-specific infinites and combos that only work on some characters (and not others), just like with Falco and DeDeDe.
 

SiegKnight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
323
haha stop acting like this board is the pinacle of intelligent or tactically relevant discussion Yuna. They're just making a way to play the game differently for their own sake. Considering they're playing on a custom stage, its not like any of it even loosely relates to proper Brawl, which involves infinites typically. Infinites I like.

My tekken 5 dr character can only shave off like 45% and he has one of the fiercest juggle/tech trap games IMO haha, the whole 'too much' damage thing with tekken is a really bad exageration made by people who never really actually played it at any decent level. The insane ammount of juggle damage takes a bit of research to attain the right juggle commands for and if you're playing with people who know the best juggles, the game is centered around not getting hit by the uppercut, and thus becomes interesting as it has unequal reward. Its not much damage because tekkens always had high damage.

Like, its styled after oldschool games. It doesn't try to evolve, its basically a 32 bit 3D fighter with new graphics, hence the slow but fluid speed and uber high damage scaling. Remember back in the 90s when stuff hit for half your bar in sf2? Thats basically what tekken takes after.

It has little relevance to brawl, a totally different game that encourages players make their own rulesets outside of tournament play, was made in 2005-2007, and isn't particularly trying to be retro like tekken. (compare the ammount of devestation you can deal in 64 compared to melee/brawl)
 

SiegKnight

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 17, 2008
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323
actually they make their own rules even in tournament play. ah well, point still stands
 

Yuna

BRoomer
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My tekken 5 dr character can only shave off like 45% and he has one of the fiercest juggle/tech trap games IMO haha, the whole 'too much' damage thing with tekken is a really bad exageration made by people who never really actually played it at any decent level. The insane ammount of juggle damage takes a bit of research to attain the right juggle commands for and if you're playing with people who know the best juggles, the game is centered around not getting hit by the uppercut, and thus becomes interesting as it has unequal reward. Its not much damage because tekkens always had high damage.
50%+ juggles are possible. I've seen them with my own eyes (juggles that cannot be gotten out of). Of course, I haven't really cared enough about Tekken to pay much attention to DR so they might've toned it down for DR. But it wasn't very uncommon in 5. If that's the case then just remove "DR" from my example.
 

SiegKnight

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
323
5.0 is trash. But yeah theres over 50% juggles, they're just ridicolously high risk. Tekken is trying to immitate retro 3D gaming pretty much, back in the old days where you'd have all them ridicolously long strings, wacky bosses, colorful graphics, arcadey stages... Thats why tekken seems so minimalistic and silly.

Back in like, vf2, that 3D fighter had so many juggle exploits and health eaters its not even funny. It was the most complex game of its time - more complex than Brawl even if not Melee, not that its hard to be - but people say playing vf2 competetively is a farce. ^_^; (And I do it haha) Its just so broken. Tekken is trying to bring back them days but neuture it so its actually sort of fair. The directors were kinda like "Man them days were the best, lets bring them back somehow"

Its just a silly dose of retro ism. Thats why the combos are high. MVC2 is different as its so broken its ridicolous. Even the team who made it who also worked on third strike voiced in an interview they want to fix it.

But yah I agree with his bans, on hp mode, knockback doesn't exist. Though, this also allows for many guaranteed combos - which act as only situation low % things in normal brawl - from people like Marth which aren't infinites, so its not like his idea is entirely boring. I personally don't care for his mode and idea though, nothing I'd try.
 

xS A M U R A Ix

Smash Ace
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656
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Raleigh, NC
DeDeDe can only (truly) infinite 3 characters (and for two of them, he has to KO them eventually as he can't fully infinite them up to 999%) last time I checked. Falco's chaingrab doesn't even work on that many characters and he has to end it with an attack eventually or people can just DI and aerial out of it.

"You get 3 shots" = 3 rounds

Did you know, Smash is played with 3 stocks and not 1? In other words, you need to be infinited thrice to lose the match.

It's also quite funny how no one renowned is elevating DeDeDe or Falco to Top Tier-level because of these supposedly abusable "infinites". Could it be because they're only doable on a small number of characters and they're also quite gimpable (DeDeDe is one of few characters susceptible to the Ken Combo)?

And to use infinites is not to be scrubby. It's to be "cheap" if anything. You are scrubby.

Did you know that plenty of games outside of MvC2 have infinites or at least just really, really long combos and strings that shave off 50-70% of one's health? Pick a Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection Character, almost any character. Zappa in Guilty Gear's various iterations. Sol Bad-Guy's old Dust Loop, Millia's various infinites and psuedo-infinites throughout the games. Lots of traditional fighters have character-specific infinites and combos that only work on some characters (and not others), just like with Falco and DeDeDe.
Wow my posts earlier went entirely over your head. Let me try to explain my reasoning behind the banning of chain grabs and also why your examples of "infinites" in other games are wrong. You have to keep in mind my reasoning for these arguments are for THE GAMEPLAY MODE I PRESENTED. Not normal brawl.

On dedede: His regular match infinite normally does only work on 5 characters, but when you have a wall, anyone that remains standing can be infinited, you don't have to walk forward at all once you're at the wall, so all you have to do is down throw and immediately grab. If it were allowed, there would be no reason not to play dedede, unless the other person picked a character who falls over after the grab. This would eliminate using over half the cast. It needs to be banned.

On Falco: Normally he can't chain grab characters after a certain percent, but in this mode, the launch amount is not increased with damage. Thus, every character behaves as if they were at 0%. Falco suffers from the same problem as dedede, once he throws them into a corner, the match ends right there. Falco is worse than dedede though because it works on most of, if not the entire cast. Chain grabbing normally ends at a ledge in brawl, or after too much damage has been done to the person and they get launched too high. This takes no skill at all to do and degenerate the gameplay, thus, it deserves banning in this mode.

On the "did you know smash is played with 3 stocks" thing: Why yes, yes I did. Did you know that stamina mode is played with one stock? That's right, one infinite and you lose.

On Tekken: There are no infinites in tekken, and on top of that, the 50%+ juggles aren't started off throws, which you also don't get for free for a person attacking your shield. Throws are also duckable and escapable in tekken. As for the combos themselves, They rarely do more than 50%. That means you get atleast 2 mistakes before you lose the match. Tekken also is a multiple match game, where if you make those 2 mistakes and lose, you have another round or two depending on how many it's set at to win. This mode = 1 SMALL mistake and you've lost. Not to mention the combos in tekken take a lot more skill to execute and thus the player has a chance to drop the combo and allow you to escape.

On Guilty Gear: Sol doesn't have dustloop in GGAC. Even then it was never an infinite, eventually he had to end the combo because of damage scaling and reduced untechable time on dust. Zappa does have an infinite with his dog in the corner but for one, it builds your burst meter extremely fast, and it's actually escapable if you dead angle zappa's attack in the 2 frame window you have before Zappa's dog bites you. If you're referring to his true infinite, once again, it does so little damage and builds burst meter so fast that you can escape eventually. It also requires a HUGE amount of setup. You can see it coming a mile away and get out of the corner before it happens. As for millia, I've never heard of her having an infinite. GG is a high damage game like tekken but damage also scales the more you're hurt, and it usually ends up taking 3 combos to kill someone. That means 3 mistakes on your part, usually 4 considering burst allows you to escape a combo once. Not to mention once again that even those combos that only do 40-50% take a great deal of skill and setup and are easily dropped. Very much unlike repeatedly pressing Z and then down.

I play GG and Tekken competitively, please don't try to use them in arguments for this because they're completely off base.
 

Yuna

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Wow my posts earlier went entirely over your head. Let me try to explain my reasoning behind the banning of chain grabs and also why your examples of "infinites" in other games are wrong. You have to keep in mind my reasoning for these arguments are for THE GAMEPLAY MODE I PRESENTED. Not normal brawl.
Yes, and? How does Stamina mode somehow make us want to ban infinites when we wouldn't ban them with stocks on? Plenty of other fighting games have pure infinites that are very close to 0-100%.

On dedede: His regular match infinite normally does only work on 5 characters, but when you have a wall, anyone that remains standing can be infinited, you don't have to walk forward at all once you're at the wall, so all you have to do is down throw and immediately grab. If it were allowed, there would be no reason not to play dedede, unless the other person picked a character who falls over after the grab. This would eliminate using over half the cast. It needs to be banned.
Don't get grabbed by a wall. It's not that hard. I managed to not get wallshined regularly in Melee. So can you in Brawl.

On Falco: Normally he can't chain grab characters after a certain percent, but in this mode, the launch amount is not increased with damage. Thus, every character behaves as if they were at 0%. Falco suffers from the same problem as dedede, once he throws them into a corner, the match ends right there. Falco is worse than dedede though because it works on most of, if not the entire cast. Chain grabbing normally ends at a ledge in brawl, or after too much damage has been done to the person and they get launched too high. This takes no skill at all to do and degenerate the gameplay, thus, it deserves banning in this mode.
This, I'll give you.

On the "did you know smash is played with 3 stocks" thing: Why yes, yes I did. Did you know that stamina mode is played with one stock? That's right, one infinite and you lose.
Touché.

On Tekken: There are no infinites in tekken, and on top of that, the 50%+ juggles aren't started off throws, which you also don't get for free for a person attacking your shield. Throws are also duckable and escapable in tekken. As for the combos themselves, They rarely do more than 50%.
1) I never said there were.
2) Since when are throws the epitome of broken? There are people who can shave off quite a lot of your health bar off of a Mid or Low (i.e., mixup).
3) Throws are duckable and breakable in Tekken? Well, howdy, spotdodging in Melee and throw breaking (though frame precise) say "Hi".
4) There are plenty of characters in Tekken 5.0 who can shave of more than 50% of your health. For some, it's not even that hard (to land the initial launcher).

That means you get atleast 2 mistakes before you lose the match. Tekken also is a multiple match game, where if you make those 2 mistakes and lose, you have another round or two depending on how many it's set at to win. This mode = 1 SMALL mistake and you've lost. Not to mention the combos in tekken take a lot more skill to execute and thus the player has a chance to drop the combo and allow you to escape.
How hard something is to do is of no consequence if it's humanly possible. You still have the point about only 1 "round", though. Easily circumvented by having sets of Best of out 3 matches and then Best out of 3 sets.

On Guilty Gear: Sol doesn't have dustloop in GGAC. Even then it was never an infinite, eventually he had to end the combo because of damage scaling and reduced untechable time on dust.
I never said he had one in GGAC. What part of "old" was too French for you to comprehend? And what part of "pseudo-infinite" was too German for you? It shaved off plenty of health and it locked you down for quite a long time, enabling him to quite possibly win due to a Time Out.

Zappa does have an infinite with his dog in the corner but for one, it builds your burst meter extremely fast, and it's actually escapable if you dead angle zappa's attack in the 2 frame window you have before Zappa's dog bites you. If you're referring to his true infinite, once again, it does so little damage and builds burst meter so fast that you can escape eventually. It also requires a HUGE amount of setup. You can see it coming a mile away and get out of the corner before it happens.
Doesn't mean it's not there. Or that he can't infinite-pressure you to win on time. In the old games, he had true and pseudo-infinites with which he could pretty much eventually win on time out if he did a two or three or them.

As for millia, I've never heard of her having an infinite. GG is a high damage game like tekken but damage also scales the more you're hurt, and it usually ends up taking 3 combos to kill someone.
Millia has a pseudo-infinite. She'd had one forever (though it's changed throughout the years). And it doesn't build up Burst particularly fast. She can also end it with a guaranteed Force Break Disc (since even half of the pseudo-Infinite will give her enough Tension) into a mixup... into a possible new pseudo-infinite.

That means 3 mistakes on your part, usually 4 considering burst allows you to escape a combo once. Not to mention once again that even those combos that only do 40-50% take a great deal of skill and setup and are easily dropped. Very much unlike repeatedly pressing Z and then down.
Pressing Z and then down and then timing pressing Z again. And, again, skill is inconsequential if it's humanly possible. True "pros" won't regularly screw up their timing. Millia's combos require absolutely zero setting up. The timing of it fluctuates depending on who she's fighting, though.

I play GG and Tekken competitively, please don't try to use them in arguments for this because they're completely off base.
You must not know the meaning of "pseudo".
 

AsherXII

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
67
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*is crushed by massive multi-quote* on-topic: its a cool idea for sure, i think it would be way too complicated to try to pull off though. I myself will just stick to Guilty gear.
 

xS A M U R A Ix

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 22, 2003
Messages
656
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Raleigh, NC
Yes, and? How does Stamina mode somehow make us want to ban infinites when we wouldn't ban them with stocks on? Plenty of other fighting games have pure infinites that are very close to 0-100%.
Because the infinites aren't even possible on most legal maps in regular play. Not to mention that once again, they do not end the game off that one throw in normal brawl.

Don't get grabbed by a wall. It's not that hard. I managed to not get wallshined regularly in Melee. So can you in Brawl.
It doesn't matter where you get grabbed on the screen though, both chain grabs carry you to the wall at any point on the level.

2) Since when are throws the epitome of broken? There are people who can shave off quite a lot of your health bar off of a Mid or Low (i.e., mixup).
My point was that throws are MUCH easier to land in brawl than they are in tekken and on top of that they're much more consequential in this mode of play. You don't get guaranteed throws off of blocked moves in tekken and those throws don't lead to 100% infinites.

4) There are plenty of characters in Tekken 5.0 who can shave of more than 50% of your health. For some, it's not even that hard (to land the initial launcher).
50% was a general estimation. It's AROUND that much for most characters, although yes, some go even higher.


How hard something is to do is of no consequence if it's humanly possible. You still have the point about only 1 "round", though. Easily circumvented by having sets of Best of out 3 matches and then Best out of 3 sets.
You're right on the best of 3 sets. That would be a way of extending it, but the gameplay and character diversity would still be god awful because of the infinites, which was the point of the bannings.


Millia has a pseudo-infinite. She'd had one forever (though it's changed throughout the years). And it doesn't build up Burst particularly fast. She can also end it with a guaranteed Force Break Disc (since even half of the pseudo-Infinite will give her enough Tension) into a mixup... into a possible new pseudo-infinite.
So what exactly is this psuedo-infinite, and if there was one, why would she need meter to restart it? I call BS on this.


Pressing Z and then down and then timing pressing Z again. And, again, skill is inconsequential if it's humanly possible. True "pros" won't regularly screw up their timing. Millia's combos require absolutely zero setting up. The timing of it fluctuates depending on who she's fighting, though.
Once again, proof? It sounds like you're just talking about a standard combo or loop.

You must not know the meaning of "pseudo".
If you're going to bring that up then why are you even mentioning "pseudo" infinites in an argument about actual infinites?

I never said he had one in GGAC. What part of "old" was too French for you to comprehend? And what part of "pseudo-infinite" was too German for you? It shaved off plenty of health and it locked you down for quite a long time, enabling him to quite possibly win due to a Time Out.
If the games are old then of what consequence are they to this argument. GGAC is the most recent, balanced, and up to date version of the game. As far as the time out on dustloop goes, it only lasted maybe 10 seconds at the most, nothing close to the 99 seconds on the clock.
 

Morrigan

/!\<br>\¡/
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
18,681
This isn't in any way competitive, it's just for fun, so why make such a huge argument out of it? :ohwell:
 
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