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The Chaingrab Breakdown

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Blad01

Blad01

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I. Introduction​

Falco has a limited chaingrab, that works at low percents, generally from 0% to 45%. Here is a video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfWWtWYevAQ.

II. How could I contribute ?​

You would like to contribute ? It's simple.

1) First of all, you have to be with a friend.
2) Go in the training mode.
3) Choose your opponent, and take Final Destination.
4) Put the CPU on "Control"
5) Begin to chaingrab your opponent. Your friend will try to avoid it :
- First, with air attacks. You will notice when (at what percents), and with which air attacks (Fair, Nair, Bair, Uair, Dair)
- With a simple hop. You will notice when (at what percents) your opponent is able to hop to avoid the chaingrab.
- With an aidodge (it's genrally possible at the same moment than the hop)
- With DI. Your friend must try to DI up, diagonal, backward... And try to avoid the chaingrab with that. Try to use a proper DI + Hop. Same : You will notice when (at what percents) your opponent is able to DI (+Hop or +Air attack) the chaingrab.

> Note : If someone wants to make some videos, he's welcome.


III. The Chaingrab In-Depth List​
[Organized by series, as the select screen does]
[> To find a character, you can press CTRL + F]​

  • Mario
    Walking Chaingrab :
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times from 0%) *
    Counters :
    * Up B, Nair, UAir, Jump if Falco is not quick enough.

  • Luigi :
    Walking Chaingrab :
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times from 0%)
    Counters :
    * Nair (from 9 %)

  • Peach
    Walking Chaingrab : 2 times ?*
    Running Chaingrab : Impossible.


  • Bowser
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Donkey Kong
    Walking Chaingrab :
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times from 0%)
    Counters :

  • Diddy Kong :
    Walking Chaingrab :
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times from 0%)
    Counters :

  • Yoshi
    Walking Chaingrab :
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times from 0%)
    Counters :

  • Wario
    Walking Chaingrab :
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times from 0%)

  • Link
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Zelda
    Walking Chaingrab : 2 times ?
    Running Chaingrab : Impossible

  • Sheik
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Ganondorf
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Toon Link
    Walking Chaingrab : ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Samus
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-18% (2 times)*
    Running Chaingrab : Impossible

  • Zero Suit Samus
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-36% (4 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)
    Counters : Down B (from 36%)

  • Pit
    Walking Chaingrab : ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Ice climbers (If one of them only)
    Walking Chaingrab : ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)
    Counters : Shieldgrab / reaction with partner.

  • ROB
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-18% (2 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-18 % (2 times)
    Counters : Jump (18%); Fair (?? %)

  • Kirby
    Walking Chaingrab : 2 times ?*
    Running Chaingrab : Impossible

  • MetaKnight*
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times from 0%)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times from 0%)*
    Counters :
    * Jump away (from 36%) (RCG)
    * Nair and Uair to rack up damages (The grab has the priority). (RCG)
    * No counters for Walking CG.

  • Kind Dedede
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times) ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-54% (6 times)

  • Olimar
    Walking Chaingrab : Unknown
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)*
    Counters :
    - Jump / AFA

  • Fox
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Falco
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-36% (4 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Wolf
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Captain Falcon
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Pikachu
    Walking Chaingrab : 4 times ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)
    Counters : Dair (from 27%)

  • Squirtle
    Walking Chaingrab : ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Ivysaur
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Charizard
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Lucario
    Walking Chaingrab : 2 times*
    Running Chaingrab : Impossible

  • Jigglypuff
    Walking Chaingrab : 2 times*
    Running Chaingrab : Impossible

  • Marth*
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times) ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)
    Counters :
    * Up B (from 18%).

  • Ike
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Ness
    Walking Chaingrab : ?
    Running Chaingrab : ?

  • Lucas
    Walking Chaingrab : ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

  • Mr. Game & Watch
    Walking Chaingrab : ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)
    Counters : Up B (36%) ?

  • Snake
    Walking Chaingrab : 0-45% (5 times)*
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)
    Counters : Grenade, mostly for RC.

  • Sonic
    Walking Chaingrab : ?
    Running Chaingrab : 0-45 % (5 times)

* = Must be timed perfectly, if you don't want the opponent to escape the Chaingrab.


IV. The Groups​

1) Characters you can always walking and running chaingrab

Bowser
Captain Falcon
Charizard
Donkey Kong
Fox
Ganondorf
Ike
Ivysaur
King Dedede
Link
Sheik
Wolf

2) Characters you should walking chaingrab

MetaKnight
Snake

3) Characters you should running chaingrab

Falco
Lucas
Ness
Pikachu

4) Characters that can escape the chaingrab

Ice Climbers (Partner action)
Luigi (Nair)
Marth (Up B)
Olimar (Jump + AFA)
ROB (Jump; Fair)
Zero Suit Samus (Down B)

5) Characters you can't chaingrab

Jigglypuff
Kirby
Lucario
Peach
Samus
Zelda


V. Alternatives and follows-ups​

First the group 5 can be pseudo chaingrab ("chainspike"), by DThrow > Buffered SH Dair > FastFall > Turn-Around Grab. They can still move before the regrab though, but their options are very limited.

There are several ways to end a chaingrab. Let's list them :
- Shine or SH Shine, SH Nair, SH Bair to rack up damages in the airs.
- Phantasm to rack up damages if they are too far away.
- SH Dair. This is a very interesting option, since it's a spike. On the ground, you can follow with a laser-lock, a jab to regrab, or tech-chase your opponent. Offstage, it sets up really nicely for an edgehog. (See this thread)
- Gatling Combo on heavies, or if the DI down.
- Mindgames, which includes waiting for the airdodge with a Boost Smash or Walking Grab.
 
artifice

artifice

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lawl at lvl9.

luigi cant be chained. if they spam a you will get a nair in the face. but if they are noob then you can.
 
Fluke

Fluke

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Very nice idea.

But I am unsure about the training mode thing. Yes it beats restarting the match for every possibility, but with chain grabs dmg/kb dropped over time?

But you are just looking for the dmg until they can break. You need to use a random attack to get the dmgs between grab damages if you need to be super indepth.
 
J

J4pu

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Perhaps organize the names in a better way, looks like you have them down then across (from the choose character screen)
i think there are better ways to display characters in regards to quick finding, imo alphabetical (even tho sheik and zelda etc. don't end up next to each other anymore)
just an idea
 
Blad01

Blad01

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Fluke said:
But you are just looking for the dmg until they can break. You need to use a random attack to get the dmgs between grab damages if you need to be super indepth.
Click to expand...
Hum, no, we don't need to be "super in-depth" ;)

What is important is to determinate how many times can Falco grab the opponent from 0%. After that, we have the dmg until they can break (Approximately).

A "super in-depth" analysis would be tooooo long... ;)

Perhaps organize the names in a better way, looks like you have them down then across (from the choose character screen)
i think there are better ways to display characters in regards to quick finding, imo alphabetical (even tho sheik and zelda etc. don't end up next to each other anymore)
just an idea
Click to expand...
Hum, i personnaly like the idea to organize the names like the select screen does : By series. But i added some icons to find them quicker ;)

No one to contribute ? :/ (Your names will be in the first post ^^)
 
W

Wiierd

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It seems relevant so I will ask here. What's the correct form for a chaingrab to spike combo? Chaingrab till they are just off the platform, then short hop to a Dair? And can you recover from that or is it more of a suicide? I'll try and find videos too, thanks for any help in advance!
 
Blad01

Blad01

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Wiierd said:
It seems relevant so I will ask here. What's the correct form for a chaingrab to spike combo? Chaingrab till they are just off the platform, then short hop to a Dair? And can you recover from that or is it more of a suicide? I'll try and find videos too, thanks for any help in advance!
Click to expand...
Yes that is exactly that : Chaingrab > Short Hop off the edge > Dair.
After that, you can use tour second jump :) (and your recovery)

Metanight can get out around 26%, but the timing has to be perfect.
Click to expand...
"Around" ? Please tell me the exact percents. How does MK break the chaingrab at 26 % ? With an aerial move, a DI, both ?
Have you really tried with a friend who tries to DI, counter, etc ?
 
Blad01

Blad01

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Mario, MetaKnight, King Dedede, Marth and Ike added.

-> Mario is hard, you have to perform your fastest chaingrab.
-> Same for MK's hops.

-> King Dedede and Ike are very easy to chaingrab... Can't counter, DI, jump...

-> Marth is impossible to chaingrab with his Up B. :/
 
Blad01

Blad01

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Pokemon Trainer just added.

Squirtle (!), Charizard and Ivysaur can be esaily chaingrabed, and don't have any counters. This has to be confirmed for Ivysaur, though. (B move, and Jump)

Seriously, no-one is interessed by this List ? What's the hell ? oO
 
artifice

artifice

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i am =]

seems to be helping the opposition a lot tho lol.

uhhh... and i think fox can be chained to around 22. and then he can jump out. sorry i dont have any time to check this stuff out or i would =/

not sure if relevant. but its easy to dair spike MK after the chain grabs.... yeeeah.
 
Sethlon

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Haha, I'll try and see if I can't get together with friends today to test more characters out.
 
T

Tonyyyyyy

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Sonic can UP B (and that god**** spring will hit you in the face) out of it after the first Dthrow. Don't know the exact % nor is it important imo.
 
P

PhantomBrawler

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Okay Im getting sick of this, everyone i use the chaingrab on complains and calls it spamming. Ive even had a friend say that if i do it he will quit. I really wish people would stop labeling it as spamming, its much mroe difficult than spamming one move. Is there any tips you guys have with dealing with these kind of people?
 
Blad01

Blad01

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Sethlon said:
Haha, I'll try and see if I can't get together with friends today to test more characters out.
Click to expand...
Hey, cool if you can ;)

Sonic can UP B (and that god**** spring will hit you in the face) out of it after the first Dthrow. Don't know the exact % nor is it important imo.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, i will try it. Or maybe someone to confirm ?

Okay Im getting sick of this, everyone i use the chaingrab on complains and calls it spamming. Ive even had a friend say that if i do it he will quit. I really wish people would stop labeling it as spamming, its much mroe difficult than spamming one move. Is there any tips you guys have with dealing with these kind of people?
Click to expand...
Hum, the chaingrab is accepted by "pro players"...
You can tell him how the ICs and DDD's Chaingrabs are better. :) But if he's a friend, i don't know, try to not use the Chaingrab too often. Mix it up with others moves ;)

1. Two down-throws, followed by a SHFFL Dair > Up Tilt > Follow him in air.
2. Followed by SHDL / SHL > Phantasm
3. Followed by SH Reflector
4. ...

I don't know, there is a lot of moves to follow with ;)
 
Blad01

Blad01

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So he can't really ? That's not like Marth's Up B ?

If sonic can Up B, he can also (maybe) Counter with an aerial, jump...

I'll check it out ><
 
I

Icantlos

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This looks like an interesting project and I'm definitely interested in the results.

I'll try to contribute when I have some free time.
 
drewlynoted

drewlynoted

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um it is possible to chain grab samus

although it does require some more work

basically you can do dashing shield grabs on samus, you'll block the aerial and then still grab them. of course i dunno if this is still considered a chaingrab.

EDIT: this also works on other characters that are considered too floaty or what not
 
T

Tonyyyyyy

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I don't know if my buddy sucks at getting out of it, but we tested Fox today and I was able to get him to 45% and on the last Dthrow he was still close enough to the ground for a dash-up smash.
 
Blad01

Blad01

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gamerkim28 said:
um it is possible to chain grab samus

although it does require some more work

basically you can do dashing shield grabs on samus, you'll block the aerial and then still grab them. of course i dunno if this is still considered a chaingrab.

EDIT: this also works on other characters that are considered too floaty or what not
Click to expand...
Hum, i don't think that is still considered as a chaingrab. Just imagine if they jump : The chaingrab will be easily broken, and you will be exposed.

I don't know if my buddy sucks at getting out of it, but we tested Fox today and I was able to get him to 45% and on the last Dthrow he was still close enough to the ground for a dash-up smash.
Click to expand...
Hum, no, your buddy doesn't suck ^^ I think that Fox is, as Wolf, easily chaingrabed.
 
Sethlon

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So, I got an opportunity to test stuff out at a tourney yesterday. Falco CAN chaingrab marth without him being able to upB out of it...you just have to have near perfect timing on the run -> grab. Even with him mashing upB i was still able to chaingrab him, although if I messed up in the slightest he'd be alble to upB.

And confirmation on being able to chain sonic too...and that match got recorded, so I can show it to you guys whenever Xyro puts it up on the great 'tube.
 
Blad01

Blad01

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Sethlon said:
So, I got an opportunity to test stuff out at a tourney yesterday. Falco CAN chaingrab marth without him being able to upB out of it...you just have to have near perfect timing on the run -> grab. Even with him mashing upB i was still able to chaingrab him, although if I messed up in the slightest he'd be alble to upB.
Click to expand...
So you can chaingrab him until... 45% ?

[UPDATE :

- Wolf and Sonic added !
- Updates on Mario, Marth, MK.
- To be confirmed : Samus, Lucario, Jigglypuff, Peach. The Chaingrab could work if you simply walk towards them instead of running.]
 
Sethlon

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Uh, not sure. I conducted said research while playing at a tv with a line 5 people long, so I didn't get to sit back and get the exact percents :ohwell:
 
T

Tonyyyyyy

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Playing with another friend of mine today, I was able to chain grab Link up to 35% and Captain Falcon up to 40%. Feel free to test/confirm this on your own. It should be very accurate though to the exact %.
 
Blad01

Blad01

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Tonyyyyyy said:
Playing with another friend of mine today, I was able to chain grab Link up to 35% and Captain Falcon up to 40%. Feel free to test/confirm this on your own. It should be very accurate though to the exact %.
Click to expand...
Link just up to 35% ? That's weird. How did he break the CG ?
 
Browny

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Sethlon said:
Sonic can upB out, but only if you don't time the grabs perfectly.
Click to expand...
sonic can up-b out of every chain grab except lucarios force palm CG and pikas 0-20% dthrow, the only reason it will miss is if sonic doesnt mash up-b hard enough
 
golf?

golf?

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listen to sethlon he knows his stuffs :O

and im pretty sure dk can up b out of it too though it may have been mistimed chains.
 
A

Arkengate

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I dont have video to back it, sorry, dont own the game.. But i play it enough to know these 2 things:

Rob can get out by jumping after the first throw.

Pikachu can get out after 3 (at like.. 25%?) by doing Dair... (Albeit, if u mess up and step too far before grabbing its after 2. But u can do a shortstep grab and grab him 3 times.)

i should be playing tonight or tomorrow, ill update it with specific info then, but im pretty **** sure these are roughly accurate numbers for pikachu. Rob i do know can get out with a jump (super doodle man always gets out. After one or two. But it can be done at one. ) lol.. usually do the shffdair combo on him cuz of it.
 
Blad01

Blad01

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I wonder if Falco can get out of the chaingrab with his Shine... Does anybody know ?

Same for Bowser and DK with their Up B.
 
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