Wingdashing (11 Videos)

Related Techniques: Wing Landing


I will eventually replace all of the crap quality videos with better quality videos

Table of Contents
Section 1- What is Wingdashing? *Video at end of Section
Section 2- Explanation of how to perform Wingdashing *Video at end of Section
Section 3- Footstool Wingdash *Video at end of Section
Section 4- Wingdash with items *Video at end of Section
Section 5- Troubleshooting
Section 6- Application of Wingdashing explained by Sagemoon
Section 7- Pictures of Wingdashing Training Stage. *Video at end of Section

Note: All text related to videos will be in yellow for easy video finding.


Section 1: What is Wingdashing?
Wing dashing is the process of combining 4 simple moves together to produce a movement similar to that of wavedashing:
Jump
WoI (up B)
Joystick movement
Dair

It is NOT wavedashing but similar!
In depth video analysis of Wingdashing with speeds up too 15x slower http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xI-UAdZdhY&fmt=18


**Notice how Pit doesn't really come off of the ground

Section 2: How to perform a Wingdash
Ok. Everyone knows how to Wing cancel in place. Wingdashing is a variation on that. Video at the end of the post.

Wingdashing
To do a Wingdash, perform WoI off the ground (Jump, then Up B) and quickly move the joystick in the direction facing up and back. Then, add the Dair to cancel the Icarus Wings. The result should be a backwards movement with roughly the same distance and time as a wavedash.

An easy way to perform this backward is to rotate your joystick counter clockwise starting at 12 o clock to 3 o'clock:
-12:00 (WoI)
-6:00(Dair)
-3:00(forward dash if applicable)

Vise versa, an easy way to perform this forward is to rotate your joystick clockwise starting at 12 o clock to 6 o'clock:
-12:00 (WoI)
-6:00(Dair)
-3:00(forward dash if applicable)
Forward is a little more tricky

Summary:
-Jump
-Up B
-Joystick motion
-Dair

For me, it works better if I break the Up B into two steps:
-Jump
-Up
-B and Joystick motion
-Dair


I found that doing it this way ensures you get the most consistent and maximum backwards launch (12:00-6:00) without Bair canceling. (Bair canceling has the most lag)

The important thing is to find what works for you.


*A perfectly executed Wingdash results in maximum distance with no landing lag whatsoever! So you can run forward, Wingdash backward and come out of it dashing. It is also a faster dash than dashing from standstill*

If you are using a mote/chuck, hold the A and B buttons throughout instead of tapping them and your shield will auto pop up.

This move also provides an added bonus of wind push from the initiation of Up B.

10 sec clip of what the controller does by request mote/chuck then GC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elAWtlLE874


Section 3: Footstool Wingdash

This is for those who use footstool a lot and maybe it will help us use it a bit more. The footstool wingdash is nothing more than a wingdash from a footstool. You need to input the Dair a little slower than you normally would to give you enough time to get closer to the floor.

Footstool Wingdash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnSLvGets4M&fmt=18


Section 4: Wingdashing with items
Special thanks to DarkShadowRage for sharing this to inspire me to write this article.

There are three ways to pick up items:
1. Slow down to a walk and pick it up
2. Do a dash attack
3. Jump and do any aerial or airdodge

Number 2 and 3 puts you in the defensive and actually leaves you open to attack. The lag from your dash attack and the end of an Air dodge is punishable. Number 1 just slows you down still taking you away from an offensive position. But there is actually a fourth way to grab items.

You can grab an item that is on the ground, or coming at you, at the end of the wingdash. The Dair cancel automatically picks up the item so you don't have to add another button.
Doing it this way does two things:
1. It does not affect your speed so it is almost like picking up items from a dash
2. You don't have to be in the defensive to pick up items

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veog-KK9CIg&fmt=18

This is the original video that shows that you can do it if you miss the wingdash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncF9Lipbahg&fmt=18


Section 5: Troubleshooting

1. Why is wingdashing so hard?
The timing of executing each successive step is the hard part because each step should ideally be inputed at the first available frame after the previous step is finished. The window at which all 4 steps needed to perform is very small, the length of the start up of the WoI.
I find that the hardest part is getting the timing of the WoI from the jump to be the hardest part.


2. I am having trouble with performing the WoI step quick enough
This problem happens to GC people because all of the buttons are under the fingers in the nunchuck setup. A solution is to reconfigure your setup. Here are some other users who have changed their setup:
Sagemoon: X(Y) is Jump, R is set to special
Leggo : Y is jump, X is set to special

Apollo317 said:

Hey guys, just thought I'd share this. If you put tap jump on you can do wingdashing w/ one less input (just tap up diagonal and hold it there when you press B). It makes it way easier to chain. My record is 37 perfect chained wingdashes with this config as opposed to 2 without it.

Click to expand...

This works, however, this may make the arrow techs harder.

You may also change the way to hold the controller

rezen1337 said:

Instead of changing my button setup, I did something completely different: I changed the way how I held the controller. The only thing I really did was move my index finger to the jump button, so that my thumb could easily access the B button and the C-stick. I've been conditioned to doing this for awhile, though, and it's not that hard to get used to it. If you apply the C-stick to many of your moves, this may also help you a lot more.

Click to expand...

3. I am having trouble with the Dair. I perform Bair or Fair a lot.
This is a problem due to a lot of landing lag. Several users use down on the C stick to cancel the WoI.

Section 6: Applications

DarkShadowRage said:

I must say it's fun to pick up items with the wingdash.
especially against Diddy, I can wingdash grab his banana's and use them against him.

Click to expand...

sagemoon said:

WingDashing

I don't think you've looked into this tech enough to fully describe a counter argument no offense. You describe it like it should be applied as a wave dash. Which is not how this tech should be used. It does work for spacing, but not nearly the same caliber as a wave dash.

There are other things that make this tech useful though. First off that wind push effect can mess up an aerial approach. Lets take a real situation. My friend who plays Mario is approaching me with nair. He's about to hit me. I can put my shield up and block the attack and then counterattack with f-smash out of shield. However, my friend can auto cancel his nair and jab combo me before i can get an f-smash in. Therefor I'm left having to block everything.

In this same situation. I can also Wingdash slightly backwards as his is at my head level. When i do this, the wind push effect keeps him in the air just a bit and leaves him hanging right there to be punished. I've now set myself up for a perfect opportunity to f-smash him. He can't avoid this and the wind push effect basically gave me a sort of wall to punish him.

Another way of using this is to use it as an approach against a projectile. For this example i will take pikachu. His full jump neutral b is very campy and effective. I could easily just try to mirror the electricity back at him. I don't know if anyone has played a pikachu that does this, but its really not effective and wont stop the pikachu. When you use a mirror shield, you cant follow up after the move. It basically just adding damage (assuming you hit the character) and it normally ends up with an even trade. The mirror shield will leave you vulnerable due to its lag if you pull it out expecting a projectile.(i just realized this was probably not the best hypothetical situation, but you get the idea)

In the same situation, I can wingdash to cancel out this projectile and follow up with a forward smash, or w/e else i want to really. Wingdashing is really good at approaching projectiles, even pits arrow is canceled out with a wing dash. Basically its an effective way to close space while going through a projectile. This does take some timing though, about the same timing as a powershield, maybe with a few extra frames. Powershielding works, but you don't close that gap and cant punish fast enough. With wingdashing you can actually hit your opponent before they get out of their lag time from the projectile.

Finally, wingdashing prevents you from getting grabbed. I find this most helpful against long ranged grabs such as link, or ice climbers (they can combo you up to 70% with a grab you you gotta be cautious). Taking into consideration that you can do this move out of a shield, you can avoid being grabbed if you can predict it right (big if i know..). However there is also times when its obvious that your opponent wants to shield grab you, take that into considerations and you can do some pretty cool stuffs. If your opponent dodges, most the time you can get the down smash off as they come out of the dodge, if they don't dodge early enough, then you push them out of range with wing push.

Click to expand...

Section 7: Wingdash Training stage

Download here http://brawlstages.com/?page=browse&stageID=729&download=st_080529_0923.bin


Blueprints


Whole stage


Individual Normal Training



Individual Wingdash Training. Wingdash from platform to platform. You can perform a Perfect Wingdash without falling through the holes.


Chain Wingdash Training. Race the motionless CPU on belts to the end or just keep in pace with him. Adjust the size of the bottom belts to go faster.

U]Good ways to Practice[/U]
1.Training stage
2. In training mode, set CPU's level to 9 and select Final Destination. Set the computer to Run. Pretend that he is an opponent and try to mind game him as use wingdashing very often to get a feel of using it in battle. Keep in mind that even though that people will most likely air dodge after getting hit, this isn't always the case. So remember that people still have the option to attack.
3. Same as above except set computer to "Attack"


Section 8: Videos
Thanks to Sagemoon, there is going to be a big list of videos showing Wingdashing in action. This will give you an idea of the application of how to use this. I will also put in a time that he uses good Wingdashing. Sagemoon likes to Wingdash into a Ftilt but keep in mind that you can do anything from a Wingdash. Great work Sagemoon for laying the foundation of this tech!

Sagemoon (Pit) vs Fear (Mario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94NpofB-JdA&fmt=18 (2:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ge788sL5BQ&fmt=18 (1:20-1:30)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHouzrULYgY&fmt=18 (0:00/3:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmY6Ld4OkLo&fmt=18 (0:40/0:50) Edge Example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrTXoSmNcZs&fmt=18 (0:20/0:30)Projectile Example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gysF3B81ImM&fmt=18 (1:06) Edge Example

Man you're brain has been going awesome lately Kupo. I'll have to practice this and get back to ya!

Thanks for the kind words! The timing of Variation 2 is tricky because if you don't release the joystick at the right time before pressing A, it will do that funny looking Bair animation with much lag instead of a cancel.

Thank you for prompting me to experiment with your Underwrl 2.2 and all the Underwrld vids. I'm sure the Pit community enjoys them!

Heh, thanks. What you're doing is exactly what they were intended for. ^_^

I can't picture it. I need to see a video >_<

Yea sure, I'll try to put one up soon

I am defiantly going to try this when i get a chance, thanks kupo!

WhatIsPie? said:

I can't picture it. I need to see a video >_<

Click to expand...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Bump.

Ill get one up around 7 tonight

Video is up. Check the OP

I have a question before i get to go home and try this out. If you get hit during the "WaveGlide" does this gimp your recovery? Does the game count this as being knocked out of WoI or does it count your Pit as being on the ground and retaining the use of his Up Special?

The term WaveGlide is skidding after performing a Glide Cancel with plenty of horizontal momentum. Not sure what this will be called if anything but try to avoid calling that to prevent confusion.

Anyway the only thing I see that needs work with this is the inability to attack from it. The Wavedash was key in Melee not only for spacing, but because it didn't limit your ability to attack at will. This however you must cancel before you can attack. And from my experience the only way to cancel the WoI properly is during it's initial startup like we saw at the end of your video. This isn't to say this technique won't become applicable, just that we might need to fiddle with the height of it to allow both attacking and and quick cancel ability.

However I can see this really working for EdgeGuarding and EdgeDropping purposes.

I like this. Good find.

Underdog: Yea. The last one was so good that I thought about attacking at the last sec. This doesn't limit your ability to attack. I'm slightly confused.
Oh are you referring to the 1st half of the vid because I completely agree with you. I think the second one is the most useful. It is hard to get the timing down and not do a Bair. I feel like I'm learning Wavedashing all over again and it actually feels a little bit like it in a way..haha

Onichi: The answer to your question is no. You are touching the ground so when you are gliding, you are using Wing Refresh.

EDIT: If anything, the 1st half (glide back) is great practice for the 'Waveglide' (tentative name I guess, name not important).

Kupo you come out of no where and with so many ATs and ideas that I dont even have the time to try them all. I love it!!

Wow, thanks you so much CorruptFate and everyone for your comments. I was almost afraid to post these at the risk of being flamed. But I was right to trust the Pit community not to. I am glad it was well recieved. Thanks guys!
I'm going to repost my original video soon with some more Glide Spacing videos now that I have gotten better. Thanks again!

Ya thanks for reminding me, I love the Pit community, my friends tell me that everyone in the PT community are all noobs and are to young, and the IC, jiggy puff, and Marth all hate eachother and flame constantly. (There words not mine sorry if any of them see this)

Again to avoid confusion come up with another name quickly. lol WaveGliding is the utilization of the skid after a Glide Cancel.

And yes, many of the other character specific forums don't have much to work with sadly.

Good to know, sorry i had recalled about Wing Refresh much after that post. ^^;; Paint me Nub..

Regardless, anything positive to Pit is a great boon, and I wanted to be sure of all its functions

Ok Underdog good point. I like Glide spacing because I don't want to give the impression of living in the past with putting "wave" in AT. What are your thoughts and ideas about these names?

Some naming ideas:
-Glide Spacing
-LMML (Lateral movement launch/lunge)

If you have one, please post!

The only qualm I have is the word Glide as it sounds like it refers to Pit's actual Glide. Other then that I like your suggestions thus far.

As much as I like Glide spacing, I see what you mean Underdog.

Some new names:
-LMML (Lateral movement launch/lunge)
-Wingdashing
-Wingspan-ing
-Kupo sliiide! (calm down its a joke! )
-(your name here)

Old names:
-Glidedashing
-Glide spacing

Okay so thanks to this idea i was really able to turn around a match at a tournament today vs a good snake player in the finals. Okay so what I did was he tried throwing a grenade at me and i wingdashed (is that the name of it now?) and then it not only threw the grenade back at his face because of the wing push effect. i was able to space myself a little better also and it worked very effectively.

Great! Glad to hear that it works! What was the snake players reaction? Did he have any? just wondering.
And about the name, it is still up in the air.
But I think Wingdashing is a good name for it. It is not important for me to name it, but for the community to decide. But since you and I both mentioned Wingdashing, I'll use that as the name. It does seem fitting. (WoI dashing shortened to Wingdashing)

The snake player thought it was pretty cool and he had to be more cautious of grenades. He was still a really good player so he found a way to beat me. It was double elimination so I won the first set 3-2 and lost the 2nd 1-3. It wasnt anything too ground breaking but definately helped prevent grenade ledgeguarding (where he drops a grenade next to the ledge) and grenade spamming. I'm still working on this tech though, I havent really perfected it so i can see it being a lot more useful in the snake pit matchup

lol, oh I see. I'm still trying to perfect it too. Its kinda hard to get it perfect but it is coming along

nice work

thnxs for these kool tips. ill have it down soon!

This is cool.

Aren't you worried that you may get hit out of the Up B and lose it during recovery?

coreygames said:

Aren't you worried that you may get hit out of the Up B and lose it during recovery?

Click to expand...

No one is worried about losing the Up B, since your dashing along the ground your also performing Wing Refreshing, and the physics engine registers that you have touched the ground, renewing your recovery options.

this is pretty awesome thx!

your welcome and thank you. I can't wait to perfect this myself

So I've really been messing with this and i found out that setting R to "special" really helps me get the up b off as soon as i leave the ground. otherwise even as fast as i can jump to b, i still have just the smallest height and it makes a couple frames of lag...

So I'm wondering if setting R to special helps anyone else besides me?

Ironic how similar this is becoming to wavedashing huh?

haha, yea your right. It actually feels like it when I do it. I use the Wiimote nunchuck so I can't help you there because I have the problem of using WoI too soon, sorry. It seems like it will work well. I'll keep that in mind for my friends if anyone picks up Pit.

Onichi said:

No one is worried about losing the Up B...

Click to expand...

I am.

If you press Up B and get hit out of it while you are near the edge, you will lose your recovery and die. It is possible to get hit before you hit the ground.

Not if you do it correctly. You can make it so it seems like you went straight from standing to wings instantly which automatically does Wing refresh.
Also another thing I realized, I did up B off the ground and got hit immediately and still had everything. I guess if you get hit out of startup, you don't lose anything either.
Other than that, don't Wingdash near the edge.

Yeah, there really is no threat of losing your recovery by doing this.

And yeah, my button configuration is fun. R = Grab, Tap Up to Jump Off, Y = Special.

coreygames said:

I am.

If you press Up B and get hit out of it while you are near the edge, you will lose your recovery and die. It is possible to get hit before you hit the ground.

Click to expand...

Way to go cutting out the part of my post that answers this question, as yes, done correctly you refresh your up B.

Also, so what if you get hit while doing the Up+B and get sent off the stage, you still have all but one of your jumps and a glide, a smart player would be fine. Your not going to want to retreat at the edge using this. the Wingdash is utilized best to retreat towards the center of the stage, away from your opponent. You might as well take off and fly (using jumps) over your opponent if your at the edge, or better yet, shield grab them and toss 'em off the edge themselves.

Here is a possible application to Variation 1 (without the cancel)
As soon as you perform Wingdashing without the cancel, hold forward and up. You will notice that you are fighting inertia. This could be good for two reasons:

1. If the opponent is using an air attack, especially with someone with longer reach like Marth. This way you can combat them in the air with a Fair (which has an extension because of WoI) or a wing pivot Bair.

2. If you want to use an aerial attack instead of a ground. I notice that if timed right, you can do a fast fall Bair sweetspot to opponents on the ground along with the spacing you get from the Wingdash.

*Note that you are more agile in the air with WoI*

So to sum this up, instead of using it to retreat along the ground, only use this with a clear idea of spacing your self and that you want to connect with an air attack. This application is best used if you purposely fly in the air after a non canceled Wingdash

What are your thoughts?

thats a pretty cool idea.

Heres some more things i found out about the tech.

1. Besides spacing yourself. This move will mess up your opponents short hop causing them to
a) if they are still rising to rise higher than normal
b) keep them in the air just a little longer so you can f-smash and have the priority (vs most attacks)

2) because the wing push is technically an attack, If a marth or ike counters, they will counter attack the wing push, but since they are pushed out of range it sets up for an easy follow up. This also makes ike swing his side b and i'm sure other characters i havent tried yet.

3) If your opponent tries to drop a bomb or grenade next to the ledge, you can push it back. Also relating to the edge, its faster to do a ledge wingdash to get back up onto the stage rather than anything else.

4) This tech punishes stepdodging, lets take characters like link or rob who both have good step dodges (link does dodge to up tilt or jab and rob does step dodge down smash). If you wingdash d-smash then you can push your opponent away, if he is dodging during the push, then your d-smash is perfectly timed to hit them anyways so no worries.

Edit:

5) Also you never need to worry about being hit and losing the up b, you can either
a) cancel the up b fast enough to not even need to worry about wing refreshing
b) up b low enough so you get the wing refresh.
Both these reasons make it impossible to lose your up b.

I love this tech now lol. Some things i pointed out might have been mentioned or already known, but i figured i'd put it in an organized post.