The C-Stick Compendium - A Comprehensive Guide

Your C-Stick and You: An Exhaustive Examination of C-Stick Functionality

In Melee, the C-Stick was an incredibly helpful tool, and in Brawl, it is no less helpful. In Brawl, we are given the option of using our C-Stick in many different ways, and increased attention has been given lately to what other options the C-Stick offers. In Brawl, you can change the function of the C-Stick to be any 1 of 6 different things: Smash Attacks, Grab, Shield, Jump, Special Attacks, and Tilt Attacks. I'm going to explore, in-depth, each of those various options.

Before I begin, I want to note that I am aware that a majority of this information can be found scattered in various other threads, but I am seeking to create a unified guide that encompasses all things C-Stick-related, that can cover any question that might be asked about the C-Stick. A lot of topics related to C-Sticking have been popping up lately, and I hope this thread can serve to prevent some of those questions.

Also, as a disclaimer, I take no credit for any of the terms or techniques mentioned here, particularly in the C-Stick Specials section, nor do I intend to suggest that the names used are either official or final. I chose the names I did based on the various names the community gives to the techniques, which is why some moves have more than one possible name. If you feel any of the terms I use are incorrect and should be changed, let me know.


C-Stick General Mechanics, Melee/Brawl Differences, and Problems
In Brawl, the manner in which the C-Stick is registered is slightly different than in Melee. Many users complain about a lack of sensitivity on the part of their C-Sticks when they play Brawl, and some have even gone as far as to buy new controllers. While this may not be 100% the cause of these problems, it has been found that if you do not allow your C-Stick to return to the neutral position after a move, any additional moves you input will not be registered.

As a consequence of this change, holding both Shield and a direction with the C-Stick will only register one input--one roll or spot dodge. In Melee, however, doing this would result in repeated rolling in a continued direction. Also, in Melee, Shield + Up on the C-Stick would result in a Jump. In Brawl, that is only the case with C-Stick set to Special. With the C-Stick set to Smashes or Tilts, Shield + Up on the C-Stick will produce a grab.

Furthermore, there is a certain quirk that affects all three of the configurations that perform attacks, Smashes, Tilts, and Specials. When hanging on a ledge, if you are no longer invincible, and you press any upwards direction (Back-Up, Up, Forward-Up), you will perform a ledge hop, not an attack. Any of the other 5 directions will result in an attack, though. Additionally, there are a few particular frames during the ledge invincibility that react this way as well, but it is worth noting that not all every frame does. Some will result in a jump, some will result in an attack. In general, if you're going to attempt to use the C-Stick for ledge attacks, be sure not to press Up.

With the C-Stick set to Smash, Special, or Tilts, it is possible to perform a forced shorthop. This works ONLY with Tap Jump on. If you press Up on the Control Stick and any non-upwards direction on the C-Stick (Back, Back-Down, Down, Forward-Down, Forward) at the same time, you will perform a short hop followed by the corresponding aerial executed at the first possible frame. For the Smash setup, it is not possible to perform neutrals.

Additionally, in the Smash and Special setups, any C-Stick press is automatically perceived as the equivalent of Smashing the Control Stick, regardless of actual pressure, which is why C-Stick down in the air will cause a fastfall in the Smash setup. The Attack setup, however, automatically perceives every C-Stick movement as if you were performing a tilt with the Control Stick, which will not result in a fastfall'd Dair. Also a result of this phenomenon, in Smash or Special setup, the C-Stick will throw a grabbed opponent in the indicated direction, but in the Attack setup, all C-Stick directions will perform a Grab Attack instead.

Smash DI
It is possible to SDI, perform a DI "teleport" in the indicated direction during a multi-hit attack, using the C-Stick by repeatedly tapping the C-Stick in the desired direction, however this can ONLY be done with the C-Stick set to Smash or Special. C-Stick Tilts will NOT result in SDI.


C-Stick - Smash (default)
As everyone knows, this is the default configuration, and for good reason, as it provides the most immediately apparent variety of uses, and most Melee players are accustomed to it.

On the ground, the C-Stick will perform quick, uncharged Smash Attacks in the direction inputted. While dashing, if the C-Stick is pressed in 5 out of 8 directions (Forward, Forward-Down, Down, Back-Down, Back) a forwards dash attack will be performed. If the C-Stick is pressed in the remaining 3 directions (Forward-Up, Up, Back-Up) an Up-Smash Attack will be performed.

Additionally, if the Control Stick and C-Stick are both pressed either up or down, an Utilt or Dtilt, respectively, will occur. It is possible to perform Ftilts in a similar, though not identical manner. Pressing both sticks Forward will not perform a Ftilt, but pressing both sticks Forward and either Up or Down will. It is somewhat more difficult to do on-command than the Utilt or Dtilt equivalents. For characters who can perform angled Tilts, these will result in the expected Angled Ftilts, not a normal Ftilt.

Furthermore, the C-Stick can also be used to perform Angled Smashes, for characters that are capable, by pressing the Control Stick up or down and the C-Stick to the side. For Angled Smashes, any upward position (Forward-Up, Up, Back-Up) can be used, and any downward position can be used.

For characters that can crawl, however, there is one further peculiarity with C-Stick tilts. If Control Stick is held at either downward angle, and the character is crouched, every one of the 8 positions on the C-Stick will result in a Dtilt.

Through yet another quirk, it is possible to perform a jab, or Neutral A, with the C-Stick in the Smash setup. If the Control Stick is held Up or Down, and the C-Stick is pressed Back-Up or Back-Down respectively, a jab will be performed. This, however, is not a true C-Stick neutral, which the Smash setup still seems unable to perform.

What the C-Stick - Smash setup lacks in its ability to perform neutrals, it makes up for in a few other odd quirks. For one, it is possible to perform directional specials by pressing the C-Stick in a direction at the same time you press B. This is not possible in the Attack (Tilt) setup.

In the air, the C-Stick can be used to perform aerial attacks in the direction indicated. Unlike in Melee, however, pressing the C-Stick down after the peak of a jump will cause your character to perform a fast-falled Dair. However, similarly to the ability to perform Tilts on the ground, it is possible to perform a not-fast fall'd Dair if you gently tilt the Control Stick down and press the C-Stick down, just as if you were trying to perform a Dtilt this way on the ground. Additionally, Nair attacks cannot be performed in this setup.

Another odd quirk that characterizes only the Smash setup, it is possible to influence your movement using the C-Stick if you gently tilt the C-Stick to the side immediately after pressing jump. This ability to exert aerial control over your character is a somewhat difficult-to-perform quirk that does not seem to have practical application.


C-Stick - Grab
This setup has few particularly notable uses, and is not likely used by many, if any, players.

On the ground, each of the 8 directions will cause a forward grab in this setup. A turnaround grab while dashing can still be executed with Back on Control Stick + any direction on C-Stick, but a turnaround grab can no longer be performed with L/R/Z + Back on C-Stick while dashing.

In the Air, the C-Stick functions exactly like any other grab button, each of the 8 directions executes an Air Dodge. As a final note, C-Stick neutrals are possible in this setup, but they merely result in an Air Dodge, as expected.


C-Stick - Shield
This setup also has no unusual reactions, and is not likely to be used by many players.

On the ground, each of the 8 directions results in a Shield, no different than pressing L or R in the default configuration. The C-Stick alone cannot be used to move your shield, as might be expected, however you can still move your shield by holding any direction on the C-Stick and tilting the Control Stick. Pressing the Control Stick fully in any direction while holding any direction on the C-Stick will result in a Roll, Sidestep, or Jump as appropriate. (Note, if tap jump is off, then the Control Stick Up will obviously not result in a Jump)

In the air, the C-Stick functions exactly like a normal Shield Button. Each of the 8 directions results in an Air Dodge. Like C-Stick Grab, C-Stick neutrals are possible in this setup, but simply result in an Air Dodge, anyway.


C-Stick - Jump
Nothing notable here, either.

On the ground, all directions execute a normal first jump. Shield + any direction will result in a jump, as expected.

In the air, all directions result in a normal jump in the air. It is worth noting that, as described in the General Mechanics section, the C-Stick must return to neutral before another input can be registered. Like Grab and Shield, neutrals are possible, and result in Jump as expected.


C-Stick - Special
Finally, onto the most useful part of this guide, an investigation of all the new maneuvers recently found possible with C-Stick set to Specials. I will note that, in general, the practice of setting the C-Stick to Special Attacks is often referred to as "B-Sticking" for obvious reasons. Note first that it is not possible to charge moves that require keeping the Special button depressed using the C-Stick alone, however once you initiate the attack, if you quickly press and hold another Special Button, you can charge them.

For moves like Samus's Side-B, that have a different effect depending on whether the move is a smash or a tilt, the C-Stick alone will produce a Smash B only, regardless of the amount of pressure applied to the C-Stick or the amount of time the C-Stick is held. It is still possible to perform tilt B's, however, by pressing the C-Stick and the Control Stick in the same direction (Forward or Back). This is particularly notable because, as you will recall from the Smashes section, performing Ftilts could not be done using this method in the Smash setup.

Also of note in this section are C-Stick Neutrals, which have not yet been explained. In some configurations, it is possible to perform neutral moves with the C-Stick, in others it is not. To perform a C-Stick neutral, you simple press the C-Stick very slightly in any of the four diagonal directions. Moving the C-Stick completely in said direction will most often result in a Side, Up, or Down B move, but pressing it only slightly makes it possible to perform a Neutral B.

On the ground, and Auto "Reverse Aerial Rush," or Auto-RAR.
On the ground, while not moving, pressing the C-Stick in any forward direction will result in the expected Special in the forwards direction, and pressing the C-Stick in any backwards direction will result in the corresponding turnaround B move. For example, Back-Up results in a turnaround Up+B, and Back-Down results in a turnaround Down-B. Neutral B's are also possible while stationary on the ground.

While dashing, it is possible to perform an Auto-RAR, which will reverse your direction and make you jump, setting you up for a Bair. This can be either full hopped or short hopped, depending on how long the C-Stick is held. To do this, simply press any of the 3 backwards directions (Back-Up, Back, Back-Down) while dashing. This cannot be done while walking.

In the air, and "Recoil Specials," "Retreating Special," or "Wavebouncing"
In the air, with the Control Stick neutral, directional inputs produce results similar to the corresponding results while stationary on the ground. Moves directed backwards will result in a turnaround B, those directed forwards will perform the attack forwards, as normal. In both cases, momentum is preserved.

In the air, with the control stick directed forwards, moves directed forwards will react as above, with momentum preserved. However, moves directed backwards will result in a technique that currently has all 3 names listed in the section title. This technique results in your character performing the desired move, facing the current direction, but will result in varying amounts of backwards momentum being applied to your character, allowing for a "Retreating Special." In order for these to be performed, the Control Stick must be held forwards while the C-Stick is pressed in one of the various backwards directions.

B-Reversal
I will take a moment here to discuss a technique temporarily known as a B-Reversal now, in order to explain exactly what is occurring during a Retreating Special. If you initiate a Special attack in one direction, and then quickly press the Control Stick Back before the move begins, your character will reverse both their direction AND their momentum before performing the indicated Special attack. This is unique from the turnaround B, which was present in Melee, in that the turnaround B reverses only direction, but preserves momentum. The B-Reversal can also be used on the ground, even out of a dash, which further separates it from the turnaround B.

Recoil Specials can be performed without B-Sticking, as well. They are a combination of the turnaround B and the B-Reversal. To do so, you first initiate a turnaround B by pressing Back on the Control Stick, then B. Next, before the move executes, you press forward again, performing a B-Reversal. This combination of these techniques results in your direction being reversed twice, leaving you facing the direction you originally were, and your momentum being reversed once, which is quite plainly a Recoil Special. The reasons why B-Sticking Backwards in the air results in a Recoil Special are a little unclear, but this is what is actually going on. B-Sticking provides an easier way to perform the Recoil Special, and offers more pronounced results in some cases.

Not every move gains backwards momentum with this technique. Eventually, I will compile a list of every move that experiences backwards momentum with the Recoil Special. Here is a list created by 3GOD that may not be 100% accurate, but does appear to be: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166774


C-Stick - Attack
The final C-Stick option, setting the C-Stick to perform Tilts. This style has some merit, though it also has its own peculiarities. This option may appeal to players who have difficulty performing Tilt attacks any other way, though the advantages it offers are considerably less than offered by C-Stick Smashes or C-Stick Specials.

On the ground, pressing the C-Stick in any forward direction, up, or down will result in the corresponding Tilt attack. Pressing any backwards direction, however (Back-Up, Back, Back-Down) will result in a Neutral A. Neutral A's can also be performed in the usual manner, by pressing slightly in any angled direction.

The Utilt, however, has some peculiarities. It is necessary to return the C-Stick to Neutral before input is read again, as with many styles, but if the C-Stick is rapidly given up inputs (Back-Up, Up, Forward-Up), your character may jump instead of performing the respective attack.

Similar to the Smash setup, with characters capable of crawling, if the Control Stick is held at a downwards angle, Back-Down or Forward-Down, and the character is crouched, all 8 directions on the C-Stick will result in a Dtilt.

Lastly, unlike in others attacking setups, where directional C-Stick movements will throw a grabbed opponent, in this setup, the C-Stick will perform a grab-attack. It will not throw an enemy.

In the air, the 8 directions perform aerial attacks identically to the C-Stick - Smash setup, with the exception that C-Stick neutrals are possible. For information on performing C-Stick neutrals, see the C-Stick Specials section. Also of note, since the C-Stick registers the equivalent to a tilted Control Stick in the Attack setup, it is impossible to Fastfall with the C-Stick in this setup.


In closing, I'd like to add that if you have any information I failed to mention, or if you find any errors in my data, please inform me. Additionally, if you feel you weren't credited for a technique you feel you contributed towards the investigation of, let me know, and preferably refer me to a thread where I can verify your involvement. I apologize for any credits I've left out, I compiled them quickly, and hope to be notified of additional contributors, so I don't have to search the entire forum for related posts.


Credits:
SamuraiPanda and EpicProportions, investigation into C-Stick neutrals, Auto-RAR, and Recoil Specials.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152409

Jewdo, Drack, and willtheshadow, investigation into B-Reversal
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155369

Zero9teen and Qinopio, thorough documentation of Recoil Specials.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=152815

3GOD, compilation of moves that can be used with B-Reversal
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166774

Corrections and Additional Contributors
T_Bird, scotu, mugwhump, Wyvern, MysticKenji, ducky285

Nice job with the breakdown. I was just curious if anyone oculd reply to which setup they use most along with other mapping buttons. IM new and well I read another forum in whihc they talked about mapping L for jump and c stick for smashing which would be nice for me and TL bair but i find it hard to short hop with the L button. Just wondering how most people maximize button inputs.

An interesting little detail that I've found out about special stick and attack stick (not smash) is that if you give it a command while you have invincibility edge frame you will do a ledge jump but if you wait until they end then you do a ledge attack.

Very impressive. I think you've covered it all.

You should mention that forward on the control stick + down on the C-stick all at the exact same time will result in an instant-dash attack (skips the dash animation). I don't know if this is only if you have C-stick for smashes or not.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Tristan_win. I investigated the situation and I actually found it appears to be the reverse of what you indicate here. When no longer invincible, up on the C-Stick will always ledgehop for all three attack setups (Smashes, Specials, Tilts). In fact, even when still invincible, certain frames will result in a ledgehop, as well. I added this information to the General mechanics section. If you test and find that I'm still wrong, let me know.

Great post Taymond even though I dont understand most of it. LMAO

What do the titles mean. I mean like this one here.......C-Stick - Shield. Does that mean c stick and shield should be pressed at the same time?????

Ah, no. Perhaps I should've clarified that a little. The section titles are all the possible functions you can set your C-Stick to by setting custom controls.

Grand guide!
I've recently been taking an interest in Brawl's Adv. Teqs, and started off with B-sticking.

... And this helped me a lot. ^^
It'd be awesome if you could make more guides for the different ATs of Brawl.

Great guide man. I needed this. I am glad I saw this, great timing too. I had just spoke to a fellow Ness pplayer of mine as to whether I should set C to smash or special.

Ness, if you didnt know already, benefits a LOT from both smash and speciaal C sticks. With special he can wavebounce and RAR (his bair NEEDS RAR). With smash he can perform dash mindgame smashes and his usmash out of dash and shield.

I was realy torn, but this in depth guide will help me decide better.

Keep in mind, Earthbound360, that there is nothing that any of the 6 setups can do that the others cannot accomplish through the use of other button combinations, with the exception of DIing continuously one direction while attacking the opposite..

The only other possible exception I can think of is RAR. But because of the inherently floating nature of all the characters, and the general normalization of aerial movement, it's difficult to distinguish definitively if Auto-RAR performs at all better than manually reversing your direction and DIing in the air backwards, or even a simple backwards hop, as far as distance goes.

That said, there are of course options that one setup makes easier than others. Auto-RAR with B-Sticking is clearly simpler than attempting to do it any other way, and Recoil Specials are easier with B-Sticking, as well. In contrast, manually smashing usually leaves you with the possibility of tripping, since you often move a slight amount in the direction of your intended smash unintentionally, and C-Stick Smashes eliminate this danger.

That said, everything that can be done with B-Sticking can still be done with a default configuration, albeit more difficultly. But by choosing to B-Stick, you do lose the ability to DI and attack in opposite directions perfectly.

Don't mistake this as an attempt to influence you, though, hah. In certain situations, the ease of use of B-Sticking is certainly notable, particularly with Ness and Lucas, as you mentioned. If that small sacrifice is conceivable for you, than I encourage to explore all your options and give B-Sticking a serious try. For me, at least, I think I'm just going to work on being as proficient as I can at manual RAR and Recoil Specials.

I was just messing with the auto-RAR the other day and I found that whether you short hop or full is the same as pressing x, it was simply how long the c-stick was held and not the amount of pressure, but I could be entirely wrong, also, if you could give any uses for the B-recoil, that'd be great. I noticed only Lucas to have a noticeable recoil and i did think that may even be useful for recovery, but I could be absolutely wrong.

I have several comments you might consider adding to your guide:
1. The C-stick no longer ASDIs as it did in Melee because there is no ASDI in brawl.
2. The C-stick actually can give your character aerial control (in smash mode). For instance, this is why you'll FF a dair when done at/ past the peak of your jump. If you press jump, then side-c, but pressed the C stick prior to leaving the ground, your attack will not come out, but rather you'll aerial control in the direction you pressed.
3. You cannot SDI with the C-stick.
4. Pressing Up-C out of shield does a grab, unlike in Melee where it jumped.
5. While shielding, pressing C-left/right/down will perform a roll or spot dodge, but will only do one for each input (in Melee, if you held R & C-left, say, you would continuously roll left ---- in brawl, you'll only get one roll).

That's all I can think of at the moment.

@scotu, thank you for reminding me about numbers 4 and 5, I had forgotten to mention both of those, though they had crossed my mind when I was planning the guide. You might be interested to know that Shield + Up-C still jumps if your C-Stick is set to Specials, for.. some reason. On point #2, can you elaborate what you mean? Are you saying that the C-Stick can be used to DI in the Smash setup? I have attempted the example you mentioned, and I was able to see little effect. Either it would result in a smash attack, because the C-Stick input registered before the jump, or it would result in a normal Bair with the C-Stick. Could you explain a little more what you mean here?

Also, for points 1 and 3, my understanding, or at least my ability to explain, SDI and ASDI have always been lacking. I never feel like I'm fully clear on what occurs and why. Could you explain for my benefit a little, how each worked in Melee, and how they now work (or don't) in Brawl, so I can add the information to the guide.

@T Bird, thank you for that correction. I tested it again and it does appear you are correct. I've changed that portion of the guide. Concerning practical application of Recoil Specials, I would suggest you check out Zero9teen's thread linked at the bottom of my guide. As far as I know, it doesn't have a practical application for recovery. You'll find some discussion about applications in the mentioned thread, and when I get around to posting a comprehensive list of what moves are possible to Recoil, I may add a section on applications here.

Bump, for possible interest?

No doubt this guide should get stickied

5 STARS!!!

Very nice guide, thank you for compiling this for everyone

Nice guide. Highlights B-sticking flaws, but I'm willing to overlook those.

Wow, sticky status. Thanks, powers that be.

Taymond said:

@scotu, thank you for reminding me about numbers 4 and 5, I had forgotten to mention both of those, though they had crossed my mind when I was planning the guide. You might be interested to know that Shield + Up-C still jumps if your C-Stick is set to Specials, for.. some reason. On point #2, can you elaborate what you mean? Are you saying that the C-Stick can be used to DI in the Smash setup? I have attempted the example you mentioned, and I was able to see little effect. Either it would result in a smash attack, because the C-Stick input registered before the jump, or it would result in a normal Bair with the C-Stick. Could you explain a little more what you mean here?

Also, for points 1 and 3, my understanding, or at least my ability to explain, SDI and ASDI have always been lacking. I never feel like I'm fully clear on what occurs and why. Could you explain for my benefit a little, how each worked in Melee, and how they now work (or don't) in Brawl, so I can add the information to the guide.

Click to expand...

yeah, np.

The Cstick can NEVER be used to DI, although, it can be used for "aerial control" - the term referring to how you move your character under your control (as in jumping to the side/ drifting down from an aerial to the side, etc...). Although i'm not 100% on how to get it, I believe it's if you jump, but hit (and hold) side-c before you leave the ground. The character will drift to that side as if you'd just hit side on the control stick without doing an aerial. Try this out on Ike, because his jump takes an hour to leave the ground. using just x and the c-stick, you'll be able to make your character jump to the side without doing an aerial.

On points 1,3: SDI gives you an instantaneous teleport if you smash the control stick during hitlag. ASDI referst to a technique that in melee granted you a smaller teleport, but did not require precise timing (which is no longer in brawl).
For more information, please see my guide (i can answer anyone's questions about DI, SDI, and ASDI there): http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155409

NEW INFO: The c-stick can perform directional specials when it's set to smashes. So if you press the c-stick down and press B at exactly the same time (the game registers B as being pressed after), you'll do your down B!

Also, you should add a section on forced shorthops. If you jump with the analogue and press the c-stick left, right, or down at the same time, you'll do a shorthop (no matter how hard you pressed the analogue) and do an aerial on the first possible frame. This works with the c-stick set to smashes, specials, and tilts (with special and tilt c-sticks, you can do forced short-hop neutrals.)

And c-stick jumps (with special or tilt configurations) are really wierd... it seems pressing the stick during your initial dash animation, your dash stopping/turning around animation, and while releasing the shield makes you jump? And a cstick buffered really early sometimes makes me jump... like, if I press it right after doing a neutral A, I'll jump. And I think you can't jump at all while holding the cstick when it's set to special.

scotu said:

I have several comments you might consider adding to your guide:
1. The C-stick no longer ASDIs as it did in Melee because there is no ASDI in brawl.
2. The C-stick actually can give your character aerial control (in smash mode). For instance, this is why you'll FF a dair when done at/ past the peak of your jump. If you press jump, then side-c, but pressed the C stick prior to leaving the ground, your attack will not come out, but rather you'll aerial control in the direction you pressed.
3. You cannot SDI with the C-stick.
4. Pressing Up-C out of shield does a grab, unlike in Melee where it jumped.
5. While shielding, pressing C-left/right/down will perform a roll or spot dodge, but will only do one for each input (in Melee, if you held R & C-left, say, you would continuously roll left ---- in brawl, you'll only get one roll).

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Click to expand...

1. ASDI is in Brawl, though the c-stick can't do it.
2. SDI can be done with the c-stick (it's the only DI the c-stick can do)
This is just with the c-stick set to smashes, though... perhaps c-stick DI would be different (or nonexistant) with the stick set to tilts?

As for 2, yeah, I'd noticed that as well. Very odd. Seems you need to lightly nudge the c-stick left or right just when you press jump (the c-stick registers as being pressed after jump, though). I can't make it work reliably, and it only works when the c-stick is set to smashes.

One quick question before I bother reading this whole thing. Is this meant for those who use Tap A for jump? I use the Y button so I don't see myself going from Y to the C-stick smoothly. If it's not that big of a deal, then I want to practice B sticking fort RAR.

Thank you to scotu and mugwhump for your contributions. I will mention that my own testing did reveal that SDI was possible with the C-Stick. My testing was very limited, however, and was done only using Smart Bombs, for their ease of use. However, it was only possible in Smash or Special setup, not Attack.

Also, my own independent testing did not show ASDI possible, although it was in the same limited circumstances. No mention of this will be in my guide, however, since it couldn't be done with the C-Stick whether it exists or not in Brawl.

Thirdly, I understand aerial control, now, I was finally able to recreate it. It is, indeed, only possible in the Smash setup, and has been added to that section. Is "aerial control" an official term here, or something made up on the spot to describe the discovered effect?

Mugwhump, you are always a great wealth of information, and information about forced shorthops and directional specials in other setups have been added. Thanks, I overlooked both of those things. Also, I am quite certain it is possible to jump in the Special setup. Simply press up, hold it to perform an Up B, and then gentle tap up repeatedly once you land if you want to see for yourself. The factors governing the inadvertent jumps (both here and on the ledge) still confuse me, so I'll be looking into them for a while. Any outside help is appreciated.

Finally, I added some information pertaining to Samus's side special in the special section. This was particularly weird, as you'll see in a moment. The C-Stick will only perform smash side attacks (the straight-moving missile), but by pressing Control Stick and C-Stick both to the side, you can perform a tilt special (homing missile). This is very WEIRD, as you cannot perform Ftilts in this manner in the Smash setup! Strange. Why can't we Ftilt that way? lol. Random C-Stick behavior..

@CodeytheRhino, I'm not really clear what you're referring to. If you're discussing aerial control specifically, then no, it is not dependent on tap jump, you would probably have to use two hands to recreate it using Y or X. It is also not likely something you're ever going to "use." It's just a quirk of the C-Stick that needs documented in any intended-to-be-complete guide, which is why it was brought up.

I never played melee so when I got brawl I used the wii mote and have been ever since. I just kind of got used to it.

I use the D pad just like a c-stick though and I think the most useful thing is to set your smashes on it, and then you can do the air attacks on it too.

I dont really see anything better than putting your smashes on it because the other way if smashing is harder...

Note: If you set the c-stick to tilts and press any direction while dashing, you will do a dash attack. You can't do up tilts out of a dash.

Your guide mentions that C-stick neutrals are possible for tilt c-stick, but it didn't go into detail.

To do C-stick neutrals, I tilt the C-stick in a diagonal direction, usually forward/down.
I'm not sure exactly when i get the neutrals to trigger. Right now my working theory is that i can do any amount of force with the stick, BUT i must get it perfectly in between forward and down.

Keep in mind that when you use the c-stick to aerial neutral, you are doing something that is

*impossible with some set ups*
Because i can move forward as fast as possible midair and activate a neutral. If i use the stick for B, i have to stop my forward momentum so that the stick is in neutral when i press A.

I don't have all the answers on neutral aerials, some of that may be wrong. But i want to raise up the questions on neutral aerials.

@popsofctown,I did describe how to perform C-Stick neutrals, in the C-Stick Specials section, as it was the first occurrence where describing the maneuver was helpful. In the previous sections, it had either been not possible or not worthwhile. I simply didn't repeat the information in the Attack section to avoid unnecessary redundancy. Also, I think its placement is rather fair, since C-Stick Specials are of most current interest, so it's safe to say most people will read that section, if no other.

They can be performed at any diagonal, and it seems easiest to only tap it slightly, though you are correct that you can press it fully at a diagonal, if done perfectly. Usually, however, this results in the wrong one. Pressing only slightly gives you the ability to perform it on command much more regularly.

@verditude, thanks for pointing out I didn't reiterate that point from the Smashes section.

@BrawlBro, I assume you're talking about Wiimote + Nunchuk, since I don't even think you can set the D-pad to anything other than movement for Wiimote alone. Using the D-pad like a C-Stick is a good strategy for that combo, though shake smashes, if used well, can be used in the same manner as a C-Stick set to smash attacks. Using the D-pad for smashes also means, most likely, that you lose a grab button. While grabs can still be done with A+B, I don't know if the functionality that way is equal. It could also mean you lose a jump, instead, and must rely solely on tap jump, which seems unwise to me, as well.

That said, depending on character choice, the benefits of C-Stick Specials may certainly appeal to some players, and those benefits are hard to ignore. It is certainly easier to perform the associated techs through B-Sticking than manually, and for some players, that ease may be a strong deciding factor.

Thank you a lot for this guide, before this I wouldn't of known how to easily use B-Sticking to do auto-RAR, and that is very important for me as a Kirby main, seeing as Bair>Fair on him.

I have a question about c -sticking in tournys. Im assuming this is allowed but is it only at default smash? I think I'd like to try both b sticking and tilts but I dont want to use something I cant use competetively in the future. Basically, I would love to do tilts via myself but if I can do the cstick route it'll be easier but I dont want to be gimped in the future if i cant use it.

nice post dude gg

mugwhump said:

1. ASDI is in Brawl, though the c-stick can't do it.
2. SDI can be done with the c-stick (it's the only DI the c-stick can do)
This is just with the c-stick set to smashes, though... perhaps c-stick DI would be different (or nonexistant) with the stick set to tilts?

As for 2, yeah, I'd noticed that as well. Very odd. Seems you need to lightly nudge the c-stick left or right just when you press jump (the c-stick registers as being pressed after jump, though). I can't make it work reliably, and it only works when the c-stick is set to smashes.

Click to expand...

I've tested in normal speed, quarter speed, and in multiplayer, ASDI is not in brawl.
2. I've also tested SDIing with the cstick (when set to smashes at least), and you cannot SDI with it.

Taymond said:

Thank you to scotu and mugwhump for your contributions. I will mention that my own testing did reveal that SDI was possible with the C-Stick. My testing was very limited, however, and was done only using Smart Bombs, for their ease of use. However, it was only possible in Smash or Special setup, not Attack.

Also, my own independent testing did not show ASDI possible, although it was in the same limited circumstances. No mention of this will be in my guide, however, since it couldn't be done with the C-Stick whether it exists or not in Brawl.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what I though at first too, haha.
ASDI only happens on the frame when hitlag ends, and since smartbombs are continuous hitlag, ASDI would only happen once on the last frame of the smart bomb (which is pretty hard to notice).

Also, SDI only being possible with the c-stick set to smashes/specials leads me to believe that the game interprets a push of the c-stick in these configurations as smashing the analogue+hitting A or B. It also might explain some other things... like how c-stick down makes you fast-fall in these configurations, how the c-stick (set to smashes) lets you do directional specials, how it gives you air control, and how smash/tilt c-sticks only let you punch a grabbed opponent, while special c-sticks let you throw them in any direction (but not punch them).

Thirdly, I understand aerial control, now, I was finally able to recreate it. It is, indeed, only possible in the Smash setup, and has been added to that section. Is "aerial control" an official term here, or something made up on the spot to describe the discovered effect?

Click to expand...

Dunno... it seems pretty similar to "aerial control" as we've always known it, so might as well use that. And yeah, in other configurations this seems to cause an instant double jump.

Mugwhump, you are always a great wealth of information, and information about forced shorthops and directional specials in other setups have been added. Thanks, I overlooked both of those things. Also, I am quite certain it is possible to jump in the Special setup. Simply press up, hold it to perform an Up B, and then gentle tap up repeatedly once you land if you want to see for yourself. The factors governing the inadvertent jumps (both here and on the ledge) still confuse me, so I'll be looking into them for a while. Any outside help is appreciated.

Click to expand...

Jumping is indeed quite odd. One more strange thing is that hitting the c-stick (set to special or tilt) right after what would otherwise be a short-hop (with X or Y) will force you to full jump. ¯\(ºдಠ)/¯

I think c-stick jumps might be affected by timing in the buffer window, like how early or late you buffer it. Buffering the c-stick at the earliest possible time often seems to result in a jump. Another instance of buffer timing changing c-stick behaviour is buffering the c-stick (set to smashes) down during an aerial. Usually I'd do a down-smash upon landing, but if I hit the c-stick down early enough, I'd do a down tilt (without holding anything on the analogue). I didn't really test any other directions or buffering during any other action, but this should probably be explored more.

Finally, I added some information pertaining to Samus's side special in the special section. This was particularly weird, as you'll see in a moment. The C-Stick will only perform smash side attacks (the straight-moving missile), but by pressing Control Stick and C-Stick both to the side, you can perform a tilt special (homing missile). This is very WEIRD, as you cannot perform Ftilts in this manner in the Smash setup! Strange. Why can't we Ftilt that way? lol. Random C-Stick behavior..

Click to expand...

I tested it too, Samus' missiles having tilt/smash versions and being non-reversible makes them very wierd indeed. If you hold forward on the ground (to walk) and hit the c-stick backwards, she'll shoot a super missile backwards... but if you try this with Marth (or anyone else with a reversible forward B or whatever other special), he'll do dancing blade facing forward! It seems the analogue stick can affect the behaviour of the c-stick... because if you smash the control stick forward and shoot a missile forward using the c-stick, you'll get a super missile. I may have also noticed the direction you hold the analogue having an effect on c-stick SDI.

scotu said:

I've tested in normal speed, quarter speed, and in multiplayer, ASDI is not in brawl.
2. I've also tested SDIing with the cstick (when set to smashes at least), and you cannot SDI with it.

Click to expand...

Uh-ooooooooh. We must be doing something differently...
1) Just try ASDIing when stuck in a character's infinite A (like Falco's). Hold the analogue in a direction, and you'll steadily move in that direction (even the opposite direction you would normally move). It's not Smash DI, it's not air control (cuz the combo counter keeps going up, meaning you've never left hitstun- unless Brawl lets you air control in hitstun?), and I'm pretty sure it's not normal DI (because that couldn't make you move in the opposite direction.) I dunno what else it could be...

Also keep in mind that it seems like DI can't change what hit state the move puts you in (HUARGH, WHARRGARBL, or airborne), and can't make you bounce off walls (so ledge-teching's probably out). So if a move sends you very slightly airborne (the minimal amount), you wouldn't be able to SDI/ASDI downwards to keep yourself grounded. This might be making it harder to notice ASDI... also, make sure you're not using smart bombs, haha.

2) Well, this one's easy! Just throw a smart bomb at yourself and you can see yourself c-stick SDIing wherever you want! (make sure you're not in slow-mo, cuz the game seems to have trouble reading the c-stick in slow-mo).

Wow! This guide opened up a lot of things to me! I never knew all this could be done with c stick. I never really started c sticking till I started playing Olimar. Thank you!!

@Leahdybug, I'm afraid I can't give you a definitive answer about custom controls in tournaments yet. As far as I know, no official decisions on the matter have been made, and there is certainly at least some controversy on the matter. The problem arises in that a player would feasibly want different C-Stick setups depending on which character they use. If i use Lucas, for example, I might want to B-Stick. When i switch to Kirby, I'd probably rather set C-Stick to smashes. This time can add up in a large tournament, and people are still unsure how to handle the problem, as far as I know.

@scotu, I really think you need to test C-Stick SDI again. It's incredibly easy to see, unless I'm wildly mistaken about what I'm witnissing. Just, like mugwhump suggested, toss a Smart Bomb at yourself and slam the C-Stick around. Be sure not to try at any speed lower than 2/3, however, as the C-Stick will not register correctly at 1/4 or 1/2 speed.

@mugwhump, The idea that the C-Stick automatically registers an equivalent to a Control Stick Smash in Smashes/Specials is an assumption I've had for a while, though I have no idea where I got it from, since I haven't tested until now, lol. That certainly does explain why C-Stick Attack won't throw with the C-Stick. Also, I'll look into ASDI with Falco's infinite now that I know what I'm looking for more, though the result has no impact on my guide. Just thinking of past mid-game experience, I'm inclined to believe you're right. I can recall instances where ASDI definitely seemed present.

Didn't leave anything out
Extremely helpful, thanks

ima C-Stick you!

yea i searched that up on you tube and there is some advantage to using the c-stick as a special attack. best used in the air because it bounces you back after u attack. most characters has that effect but some more then others. something to try out because i know i am. Would it be Smash Tourny regulated?

neat .

Awesome guide, very detailed. The B sticking is highly useful for anyone who mains or uses a projectile character.

Taymond said:

@CodeytheRhino, I'm not really clear what you're referring to. If you're discussing aerial control specifically, then no, it is not dependent on tap jump, you would probably have to use two hands to recreate it using Y or X. It is also not likely something you're ever going to "use." It's just a quirk of the C-Stick that needs documented in any intended-to-be-complete guide, which is why it was brought up.

Click to expand...

I reread my post and I realize I typoed. I mean Tap up for jump, not Tap A. I think I can still manage, so thanks for the epic post.

There's one big advantage to the Tilt setup that you don't mention. Unlike the Smash setting, the Tilt setting will NOT forcibly fastfall your down-aerials.

Since non-fastfalled aerials were one of the most important aspects of the C-stick in Melee, I consider it to be a pretty big deal. Most of its other quirks in Tilt mode are minor inconveniences, with the Smash setting being generally more useful, but it's worth it for some characters. I always use a Tilt setting when I play Link, for example, because his Sword Plant will only bounce off of enemies (and shields) if you DON'T fastfall it, which allows you to do lagless dairs at certain heights as long as they either get hit or shield rather than dodge. Also accidently fastfalling a Sword Plant a tiny bit off the edge will kill you completely dead because of the long duration of the attack, which sucks.