B-Reversal - New Technique and Guide [now with video and replay data]

written guide by Jewdo, video guides written, filmed, and edited by Drack

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(Update 3-20-08) - Drack has posted Video 1 illustrating the B-Reversal and its properties.

(Update 3-20-08) - Drack has posted Video 2 illustrating B-Reversal Jumps and how they differ from B-Sticking jumps, also known as Recoil Specials.

(Update 3-20-08) - Jewdo has also posted replay data and instructions on how to view it on your copy of Brawl.

Watch Video 1 here.
Watch Video 2 Here.
Replay Data Here.
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When messing around on Brawl today, Drack and I happened upon a new technique that might be of some use to the community. We'll call it the "B-reversal" for now, but I hope someone here can come up with a better name for it. When you've read the post, post your name ideas, and when we agree on an official "winner," we'll add the winner to the credits list.

We were using Lucas and Toon Link on Final Destination, but most characters can do it for most of their B-moves (see "who can..." section) and stage does not matter.

HOW TO DO A B-REVERSAL - YOUR FIRST TRY

1.) Press B to signal that you want to do a Neutral B.

2.) Slam the joystick IMMEDIATELY in the opposite direction you are facing before the B-move's animation begins.

Your character should turn 180 degrees instantly, then perform your character's B-move. For B-moves that charge, like Ike or Marth's Neutral-B, you may continue to hold B if you like. Charging B-moves does not affect the success rate of the B-Reversal.

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IMPORTANT - The Neutral-B is not the only B-move that can be reversed. You can reverse all of the directional B-Moves (Side-B, Up-B, and Down-B) as well. Credit to everyone who pointed this out in the thread.

UPDATE - List of Moves Compatible with the B-Reversal/Recoil Specials
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=166774

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Note: The B-Reversal is NOT the Turnaround-B. See "Why the B-Reversal..." section for more information.


TRICKS USING THE B-REVERSAL

Running B-Reversal Pivot - B-reversals at the end of a run instantly cancel your horizontal momentum as well as changing your direction, acting as a very fast pivot with an attack. Note that, if you want to B-Reversal Pivot with your Neutral B, you have to let the joystick return to the center before pressing B. Otherwise, you'll reverse a Side-b instead.

B-Reversal Shield Techniques - The B-reversal can also be done out of a shield. The moment you see your shield drop, do a B-reversal.

Another technique that uses the B-Reversal is the B-Reversal Jump. The B-Reversal Jump has further benefits beyond simply changing the direction of your B-Attack.


HOW TO DO A B-REVERSAL JUMP

1.) Start running left or right.

2.) While holding the same direction, begin a jump. Doesn't matter if it's a short-hop or full-hop.

3.) At any time during the jump, preferably before you reach your peak, perform any reversible B-move.

4.) Before the animation for your B-move begins, slam the joystick in the opposite direction you were running before you jumped.

If done correctly, your character should turn 180 degrees in the air and begin moving in the opposite direction that he/she originally started running. If you continue to hold the new direction until the end of the jump, you should land back at the same spot you began your jump from, give or take (see the replays in my post below).

The basic effect of the B-Reversal Jump is a complete horizontal momentum cancel and a reversal of direction faced, followed optionally by travel in the opposite direction the character was originally moving.


WHY THE B-REVERSAL IS DIFFERENT FROM ITS PREDECESSORS

The B-reversal and B-reversal jump differ from the Turnaround B, which was already popular in Melee and Brawl, in two respects:

(1) For a B-Reversal Jump, you turn around mid-jump AFTER pressing B, not immediately before the jump or pressing B. You don't even need to jump if you're just doing a B-Reversal.

(2) A B-Reversal Jump does not continue to travel in the same direction you were originally moving, but rather cancels your horizontal momentum and allows you to move in the opposite direction.

(3) B-reversal is not B-sticking. B-sticking cannot be used to perform B-reversals while running. A diagonal press on the B-stick in the opposite direction the character is running forces the character to jump (see Panda's Discoveries or video). Also, B-Reversal Jumps do not behave the same way as B-sticking jumps - they turn you around and allow you to DI instead of pushing you backwards with the momentum of an attack.


WHO CAN PERFORM A B-REVERSAL

Almost every character can do a B-Reversal with almost every B-Move, but some characters get less than full benefits for certain moves. Some moves just can't be B-Reversed at all. The following is a list of special cases with Neutral-B's, provided for the sake of example.

(a) Some characters' Standard B moves already translate joystick movement into character movement, like Meta Knight's Mach Tornado. Pit too could already turn his B around whenever he likes, even in the air. For these, nothing new is added to the game.

(b) Other characters' standard B moves cancel all momentum in the horizontal direction, like Jigglypuff's Rollout, preventing them from DI'ing backwards with a B-Reversal Jump. However, they do gain the ability to change their orientation, both in the air and on the ground.

(c) Captain Falcon and Ganondorf could already turn their B moves around at the beginning. However, because the timing for the B-reversal was programmed to perform an intended turnaround function, they cannot B-reverse. This means that, though they can reverse the attack's direction on the ground or in the air, it won't be as fast as other B-reversals, and they won't be able to cancel horizontal momentum like a B-reversal Jump.

(d) Even MORE characters have special cases to consider, like Sonic, whose homing attack direction is dictated by a tiny AI-type function.


APPLICATIONS

A few possible applications for the B-Reversal off the top of my head -

1) Fake retreats. Run away, then do a B-Reversal Pivot or a B-Reversal Jump. If your opponent gave chase, you might be able to punish him for it and catch him off-guard.

2) Easy multi-directional platform-camping. This makes platform-camping in team battles a little easier for characters like Zero-Suit and Wolf.

CONCLUSION

I hope this helps, or at least piques some interest. If anybody finds a new use for the B-Reversal, post and I'll credit you for the tip. Peace out.

UPDATE - B-Reversals and the Recoil Special

Another Brawl technique, called the Recoil Special, also alters your horizontal momentum during aerial specials. It allows you to jump at an opponent, use a B-move in their direction, then bounce backwards toward your original jump position. Though it IS different from the B-Reversal, the Recoil Special is made possible by the B-Reversal. Taymond, Author of The C-Stick Compendium - A Comprehensive Guide, explains here:

Taymond said:

...the B-Reversal, while separate from a Recoil Special, is in fact a component of a Recoil Special. The addition of B-Reversal to Brawl is what allows a Recoil Special to happen.

A Recoil Special occurs when you initiate a Turnaround B immediately followed by a B-Reversal. The turnaround B reverses direction, and the B-Reversal reverses direction and momentum, giving a final result of facing the direction you originally were, with reversed momentum, hence the Recoil.

Click to expand...

Credits:
[1] Jewdo & Drack - independent discovery of the B-Reversal and B-Reversal Jump, replay data
[2] Drack - video recording, visual proof, video guide
[3] Jewdo - tricks using the B-Reversal, written guide, replay instructions
[4] willtheshadow - first discovery of the B-Reversal on 3-16-2008
[5]Taymond - information in the "B-Reversals and the Recoil Special" update.
[6] multiple - thanks to everyone in the thread for pointing out that directional specials can be B-reversed as well, not just neutral-B's. This is very useful information.
[7] 3GOD - list of moves compatible with the B-Reversal/Recoil Specials

(update 3-20-2008) - Drack and Jewdo did discover the B-Reversal (and its applications) without any prior knowledge of its existence. However, willtheshadow was the FIRST to discover it, so give him credit for the first discovery. You can find his post here - http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4135532&postcount=1

This has already been known, it was called B-sticking, and there's a much more pronounced effect if you change your C-stick to Special instead of Smash and then C-stick in the opposite direction you're moving.

not sure but this might be different b-sticking... because you don't turn around with a b-stick right?

Yeah, at first I assumed this was just b-sticking without using c-stick, but if this involves a turnaround then it is something else, unless it was only tested on bowser, falcon, and ganon. I don't really know if it's unique, it might be a different already-known tech, nor do I have time to try it myself right now, but it doesn't sound like b-sticking.

Ademsisk: Isn't B-sticking just assigning the b button to the c-stick? In that case this can't be b sticking because you can't get neutral B from the C stick.

Also, b-sticking is used like the reverse b-air thing, right? It effects your momentum, (wave-hopping is one of the reason for b-sticking, right?). This is just Turning your neutral B around without jumping.

It's not B-sticking.

VIDEO HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHLbS9NpW8Y

Hey guys, Jewdo here. I honestly don't think our technique has been covered already, so I'll let you guys be the judge of that. Because I lack digital video recording equipment, I've made three replays showcasing B-reversals, B-reversal Jumps, and Running B-reversal Pivots. All of them are very short, but I don't know which one is which. Here're the contents of each video, in no particular order:

1) Lucas vs. Ness - Ness just stands still while Lucas trips, then showcases three B-Reversal Jumps.

2) Toon Link vs Luigi - Luigi is the standby here, as Link goes through the full three-move repertoire. I think this is the most visible example of each of the three techniques that I could find. Don't worry about the boomerang toss - it's just a boomerang toss, so enjoy it.

3) Falco vs. Peach - same video as Toon Link, but Falco does the tricks here. Screwed up more with Falco, since I'm not as good with him, but it shows another character doing all three of our techniques.

Anyone who has an SD card and wants to view the replays, here's a link to the .zip file -

http://www.geocities.com/jmaster14656/rp.zip

To view them on your Wii, un-zip the replays and place them on an SD card in the following folder:

X:\private\wii\app\RSBE\rp\

where X is the letter your computer assigns to your SD card. You will probably have to create one or more of these five folders yourself, unless you already have BRAWL replay data saved to it.

Then just put the SD card in the Wii, fire up Brawl, and go to Vault, Replays to watch them.

Jewdo

Yes, its BASICALLY B-sticking, the ONLY difference is that you turn around. It has been known that you can B-stick without setting the C-stick to B, and you DO turnaround when you do it without the C-stick.


Also, you can B-stick neutrals. Who told you that you can't?

Yeah the momentum cancel/change is a nice addition, not to mention the ability to do it out of a pivot and shield.

Some neutral B's might be too slow to begin with, but that can be corrected by doing it in the air. Good find.

Ademisk said:

Yes, its BASICALLY B-sticking, the ONLY difference is that you turn around. It has been known that you can B-stick without setting the C-stick to B, and you DO turnaround when you do it without the C-stick.

Click to expand...

Yeah but in B-sticking don't you move backwards while attacking forwards, while this is moving forwards, then attacking and moving backwards?

Plus, when I tried this i didn't get the same bouncing-backwards type motion as with B-sticking.

Ademisk said:

Also, you can B-stick neutrals. Who told you that you can't?

Click to expand...

That's something I've been wondering about, though. It's kind of hard to B-stick a neutral without doing a down/side-B instead. Plus, I haven't seen any chargeable B's get charged by holding the c-stick in the given direction. It just does the attack.

I got a basic video done.

Watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHLbS9NpW8Y

Well yeah this is old, but it's nice to finally have a thread about it. And I dunno if I'd call it the same as B-sticking, though both do rely on the same principles.

The thing is, it's most useful out of a dash, and you can't b-stick a backwards neutral B out of a dash.

If you try, it just sets you up for a reverse aerial rush, just like B-sticking a backwards side-B.

Drack said:

The thing is, it's most useful out of a dash, and you can't b-stick a backwards neutral B out of a dash.

If you try, it just sets you up for a reverse aerial rush, just like B-sticking a backwards side-B.

Click to expand...

Indeed, it's definately best out of a dash. I was so happy when I learned I could finally reverse raptor-boost out of a full dash, haha.

This was in melee, it is nothing new.

It's BASICALLY the same as B-sticking, but the effects from not B-sticking are that you turn around.

B sticking is not what it's called.

It never had a name.

Falco's and Fox's were infamous for for reverse SHLing in Melee.

This thread is pointless, sorry.

But its not just a turnaround B-move. It gives a slight bit of extra momentum at the point of turnaround, and has to be done much faster.

It's known. I posted about it a while back here http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=153970 but nobody seemed to care lol. I use it alot with lucario. Its great for a retreat with cover or to fake retreat and come flying back with a special like lucarios forward b or marths neutral b.

StripesOrBars said:

This was in melee, it is nothing new.

Click to expand...

Hmm, if this is the same thing as that was demonstrated on the dojo (Captain Falcon update), then I dont think it was in melee. At least I thought in melee you could only do a neutal b reversal in the air.

StripesOrBars said:

B sticking is not what it's called.

It never had a name.

Falco's and Fox's were infamous for for reverse SHLing in Melee.

This thread is pointless, sorry.

Click to expand...

I thought the same thing as first, but I think I see the difference. For reverse SHLing in Melee and Brawl, you have to input the direction slightly before pressing B, while for this mvoe you have to input the direction instantly after pressing B. The video they shows it pretty well. Also it does't look like B-Sticking, as the point of B-sticking is to not turn around.

ok everyone in this thread is really confused.

No it wasnt in melee.

No its not b-sticking.

Yes it was discovered a long time ago JUST AS BRAWL WAS RELEASED IN JAPAN (captain falcon footage showed the rotation of a falcon punch).

No, B reversal isn't a good name. For me it implies the reversal of the opponents b move. If thats just me, let me know.

Sorry but this was in melee.

No question.

StripesOrBars said:

Sorry but this was in melee.

No question.

Click to expand...

your quite confused.

NO, it wasnt.

doing a TURNAROUND B was in Melee, but THIS wasnt.

using BOTH you can do a 360 Falcon Punch. Useful? Not really; but is choc full of UBER MINDGAMEZZ.

In melee you could not do a b move and turn around whilst doing it (unless it was a specific move made to do that).

You could do a 360 falcon punch in melee too.

Falcon punch one way, then turn around(if you still had air time) and falcon punch facing the other way.

StripesOrBars said:

You could do a 360 falcon punch in melee too.

Falcon punch one way, then turn around(if you still had air time) and falcon punch facing the other way.

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/face palm

*Sees join date post mid 06*

LOL.

*Ignores, goes back to CoD4*

It's not the same. I accidentally discovered this yesterday in training mode with Toon Link. You actually turn around and start DI'ng the opposite way. It's not the usual turn around of Melee.

I still haven't find any good use for it though...

StripesOrBars said:

*Sees join date post mid 06*

LOL.

*Ignores, goes back to CoD4*

Click to expand...

If this isn't elitism I don't know what is. Go in a topic, keep saying something was in Melee, when it isn't (they are similar) then ignore people that try to help you understand. Then make a stupid "insult". Why don't you at least look at the vids that clearly show how this is a different version from the Melee incarnation. Inputs are different, and so are the results.

StripesOrBars said:

*Sees join date post mid 06*

LOL.

*Ignores, goes back to CoD4*

Click to expand...

Let's all just stroke our join-date-pen0rs now, shan't we?

If you've watched the video, you can see that Falco basically pivots in place from his dash and fires a laser, WITHOUT THE TURNAROUND ANIMATION. You couldn't do that in Melee.

.Sinn said:

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/hidden05.html

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Did you even read the first post? At the end is an explanation why what Captain Falcon does is NOT a B-Reversal. It does turn around, but it doesn't cancel horizontal momentum or allow backwards movement in the air like a B-Reversal. They're two different things.

Allow me to explain a bit better.

This was NOT in Melee. Sure, Melee had turnaround B. I mained Falco, I used turnaround B all the time. Just Jump, tap back, and do a neutral B. Works in Brawl, old news.

B-reversal is not Turnaround B. It can be done without jumping, even out of a dash.

Captain Falcon and Ganondorf's turnaround punches use the same input as a B-reversal (but with looser timing). IT TAKES LONGER TO DO than punching forward in place - The punch comes out SLOWER. It's a built-in feature but is not the same thing. Unfortunately this means these characters cannot B-Reversal.

A B-reversal doesn't take ANY time to turn around. It's the fastest way to do a B facing behind you. It's just as fast as doing a B in front of you.

While you can do Bs behind you with a B-stick, you CANNOT do a neutral B behind you out of a dash with a B-stick. Attempting to do so will make you instantly turn around and JUMP, not neutral B.

To dispell any doubts, see the video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHLbS9NpW8Y

ah kk, at first i thought it was gonna be like melee, because of the beggining, but i watched through, maybe you should post some vids of what characters this could work with pretty well...

This is pretty nice. I don't see whats so hard for people to understand the difference between B-reversals and turn around B. Same results sure, but one is clearly superior. This is a nice addition in speeding up Brawl.

This works with side B moves as well. Stops momentum, even in the air.

Good LORD! No wonder why so many people fear bringing up these new techniques!

For the record, what they're offering IS NOT MELEE'S B REVERSAL, nor is it the pile of uselessness that B-sticking is (just lose your C-stick smashes for the sake of moving slightly backwards as you PK fire? MOVE OVER, WAVEDASHING!!!).

Melee's B reversal involved holding the stick slightly in the direction you wanted to use the B move, thus making you move in that direction and/or lose momentum. This allows you to run, jump, spin around and neutral B WITHOUT LOSING ANY MOMENTUM.

And you want useful applications? Try "retreating" with Bowser, then suddenly leaping in the air, flipping around and burninating the crap out of your stunned opponent whose only remaining decision is whether they should DI forward or backward out of your fire breath.

I tested it with Bowser this morning, and although the timing is a bit tricky, once you get the hang of it, it works beautifully.

God, so many irritating trolls who won't even read the first post...

I think threads like this are a great help, even if the maneuver WAS old, which it doesn't appear to be, it's better to have everyone contributing input than none at all.

Those who are trolling need to relax and realize that we're all in this together.

Novan Leon said:

I think threads like this are a great help, even if the maneuver WAS old, which it doesn't appear to be, it's better to have everyone contributing input than none at all.

Those who are trolling need to relax and realize that we're all in this together.

Click to expand...

Exactly. They may not have invented the technique, but I wouldn't have known about it had they not brought it to my attention.

New video up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxTBQgW0mQ

Shows recoil specials through B-Sticking and b-reversal.