Adv. tacts. w/VIDS - by GAwes and Kone -Sweeping and scraping. Help confirm plz!!!!!

So these are two things we put up last week, maybe longer, and then were simply too lazy to write things about, but i figure i better do because people seem to be watching the vids and coming to very dumb conclusions .

so, these are two things we've noticed and somewhat tested, but would like other people's input, plz post intelligent things, not just "thats obviously ________ idiot OLOLOLOL!Pwnz" or some crap like that, we're tryin to help out, and you're probably not better than me.


first

sweeping - VIDEO HERE!!!


sweeping refers to the fact that apparently in brawl there are moves that are very likely and maybe guaranteed at certain percentages against certain characters to have tripping properties. This was seemingly first stated by synikal a few weeks back. It seems that it is either slightly based on radomness or a very complicated system. The reason i say its complicated is because we tested the same move, i.e. lucas's downtilt against several different characters at the same percentages and were left with differing results. Ok, so, if you dont know what you're seeing, it means you havent played brawl, so i'll explain, this isn't tripping as so many people have thought, this is you actually falling on your ***, and then having to get up, moves that pop the characters upward will never do this.

SO PEOPLE THAT THINK THEY KNOW MOVES THAT WOULD DO IT ARE WRONG, ITS NOT EVER DOWN TILT, THERE ARE ALSO AERIALS AND B MOVES THAT DO IT!!!!

we havent tested many characters with it, but moves we know will do it are

Luigi's dtilt

lucas dtilt

jiggly dair - yes, down air

so go out and test this doods, it could be really good as it can lead into tech chases, grabs, or smashes

and yes, different characters fall at different percentages, it may be based on weight or something


second

scraping - VIDEO HERE!!!!

Ok, scraping also severly needs to be tested, some framerate data would help. In the video you are not simply looking at the auto l-cancel crap, i do show the 3 different speeds that i am saying exist. This would be just shorthopping and doing the aerial, fastfalling the aerial so as to 'auto L-cancel' it and then scraping, which is ONLY ABLE TO BE DONE ON THE LEDGE GUYS. What i am proposing is that "scraping" is more of an A-cancel , as in, animation cancel. If you look at the video, you will see, that when you come up from the ledge with a ledgehop, and then DI against the stage, while coming up with an attack, as in "scraping the level" as shown, then the move coming down will seemingly cancel the remaining animation, even that which will not cancel in L Cancel with just a fast fall, you can try this on your own, you should be seeing a sort of brown smoke stuff from scraping the stage. Try this with loads of characters. With some, they are too floaty to do it apparently, and other moves seem unable to be cancelled, as in the animation. Such as the bair of bowser or loads of wario moves, they dont seem possible to cancel as the landing animation has to come out. YES THE HITBOX IS STILL THERE!

NO ITS NOT THE SAME AS JUST FASTFALLING, WATCH THE VIDEOS, JESUS

So thats basically it, if anyone has any relevant questions, please ask.


Could someone have this added to the advanced tactics thread? i dont feel like pming as i assume his inbox is probably full as hell with stuff people are sending in and i dont want it to get lost in all of that.


let's figure this out dooders

GAwes

just another adv. tech noob trying to prove his ****.


OH IT CALLED GASWEEP? OH HOW FUXIN ORIGNAL

ah so A-cancel is really in . this could definitely help

Nice job, but the video links aren't working.

Just copy them into the browser. They're not functioning as links, but the URLs are valid.

datman6699 said:

just another adv. tech noob trying to prove his ****.


OH IT CALLED GASWEEP? OH HOW FUXIN ORIGNAL

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Lol wow, This post earns a running for the most idiotic reply of the week. Where do you even see GAsweep anyway?

Also, the links do work, you just have to copy and paste them.
through that scraping video is being really slow loading for me...

datman6699 said:

just another adv. tech noob trying to prove his ****.


OH IT CALLED GASWEEP? OH HOW FUXIN ORIGNAL

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Wow. You didn't even read his post.

Sweeping is intriguing. I've never seen that before, but it makes sense! There are probably more characters that can do similar moves. I don't think I quite understand scraping though.

if you haven't noticed, we are both from GA. we know each other. i just didn't know what to say at first. stop taking blows at me.

Xengri said:

Lol wow, This post earns a running for the most idiotic reply of the week. Where do you even see GAsweep anyway?

Also, the links do work, you just have to copy and paste them.
through that scraping video is being really slow loading for me...

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david's one of my best friends. richie just farted for ages

I've got nothing nice to say, so I'm not going to say anything.

I will type abit though.

Egg on my face for that one. My bad.

datman6699 said:

if you haven't noticed, we are both from GA. we know each other. i just didn't know what to say at first. stop taking blows at me.

Click to expand...

My lack of picking up sarcasm is showing.

You got me...

My bad.

With scraping, when you land do you land with absolutely ZERO lag, or the ~4 frames you normally get when landing from the air without doing an attack? It'd be easy to tell with a good capture and holding shield while you land doing it, and see if you go instantly from the attack into having your shield up without a couple frames of jump landing between them.

If there's not even a regular landing then maybe it's like in Melee where if you begin falling (without attacking) at the exact height of the ground/platform or lower you don't get the landing animation and are just instantly standing on it. You get this kind of 0 lag easily by landing with a ledgehop with Ganon in Melee because his body is tucked up enough to not actually trigger landing, allowing his character "center" to be lower than where it's positioned when standing so you don't really fall before landing. Except in this case it'd also occur when beginning to fall at ground level with attacks too.

If you get the jump landing maybe it's just landing in the initial autocancel window at the startup of the attack, since that's what several of them look like really, and Falcon's b-air being the window after the attack (I know this move autocancels really early while his arm is still extended).

thanks for the intelligent post magus, i would like to add, that we tested this, and the moves that are coming out insanely fast and canceling DO! still have their hitboxes. this isnt really in the vid because it makes it difficult to see with a character in the way, just mess around with it, you'll see it

Interesting

Jiggs Dair to rest please . would be awesome XD.

Almost every character's down tilts make the opponent trip, and I'm starting to think a ton of moves have this property. I know I've made people trip from even Lucas's down smash.

About Sweeping, I've seen it before in some videos but I actually thought that it was the same against all characters, like that everyone would fall at more or less the same percentages with, lest say, lucas down tilt, I would love if more people test these things :3

When you tested Sweeping with diferent characters, the effects against others where the same? for example

Lucas dtilt to Mario
----------------(Where the results the same?)
Luigi's dtilt to Mario

Lucas dtilt to Ganondorf
----------------(Where the results different?)
Luigi's dtilt to Ganondorf

My question is if that the character who is making the move also influences this and not just the one being atacked

And Scraping seems very interesting, as I don't have Brawl I cannot test any of this but in the video there are clearly diferences within the animation speeds

(Sorry for my bad english x.x)

This is probably the most important topic since Ryoko's thread.

Something I think may be possible now is if you can scrape onto platforms. That would be something to also test strainuously.

scraping is in melee it is called edge cancelling.

CHUK said:

scraping is in melee it is called edge cancelling.

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Um, first of all, edge canceling in Melee involved GRABBING THE EDGE AGAIN after you did the attack.

Secondly, for part of the video, they were "scraping" in the middle of the arena with no edge at all.

This is not edge canceling.

IIRC Falco's "shine" knocks ppl over (sweeps)

what it looks like to me is that scraping is just auto-canceling (where a move immediately cancels if you land before or after a certain frame)

Frame data isn't yet possible (for me) in brawl, but as soon as i get it, i'm gonna start testing frame ****. (does anyone know if it runs at a constant rate of 60fps like melee?)

edit: scraping is NOT edge canceling - edge caneling is when you slide off an edge during an attack, canceling it.

I've only played SSBB during one session for two matches so I'm not totally fluent with the physics of the game personally. So I'll apologize if I sound a little bit uninformed.

In regards to scraping, it looks like it'll be a viable tech for competitive play. Anything that can reduce lag or negate animations will be a welcome addition to advance level of play. What I didn't understand from the video is what you were doing with Dedede?

Is scraping only a ledge related tech? The reason I ask is because I saw your Dedede do aerials in the middle of the stage that look like they were "L-cancelled. I'm under the impression that L-cancelling as we knew it in Melee is nonexistant in Brawl. Is that Dedede's natural landing lag with those aerials or are you "scraping" those attacks? I ask this also because I'd assume if that isn't any form of manipulation on the part of you for his quick recovery on aerials, woldn't Dedede's aerial lag be huge due to his large size?

datman6699 said:

just another adv. tech noob trying to prove his ****.


OH IT CALLED GASWEEP? OH HOW FUXIN ORIGNAL

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Lets see if you use it in the future tho.

I discovered "scrapping" a few days in the past, using Fox's Illusion. When you Grab the Ledge, just press "Jump" and wait for Fox to start the animation. As soon as it releases his hands from the Ledge, press Foward+B and he will totally cancel his "Jump" to star an Illusion.

If done perfectly, it will seems as if you just got up from the Ledge with an Illusion.

I did not test any other move, but this is true and possible to execute as a technique.

Obs: The name "Scrapping" isn't that good. I would preffer LedgeHop Cancel (L.H. Cancel). Simpler and easier to understand.

scotu said:

IIRC Falco's "shine" knocks ppl over (sweeps)

edit: scraping is NOT edge canceling - edge caneling is when you slide off an edge during an attack, canceling it.

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But isn't grabbing the edge again canceling too? I thought that the space animals laser spam on the edge and Yohsi's egg throwing spam were edge cancels.

Phyvo said:

But isn't grabbing the edge again canceling too? I thought that the space animals laser spam on the edge and Yohsi's egg throwing spam were edge cancels.

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Reread the post you replied to. Edge Cancel is when you use the Edge to Cancel and Attack. That is what he is saying.

I made a thread about attacks containing Trip properties a few days back:


http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=146436


-Kye

I'm not really seeing what scraping is or how you're pulling it off... I commented on the youtube page, but I'll say it here... it's not really put together in a very transparent way.

edit: Another question that comes to mind, after watching it again... are you sure the attack frames are coming out when you "scrap" an attack?

We posted the vids on youtube a week back ... just hadnt got round to posting it ....

Made the vids very quickly, attack hitbox does come out. Brawl be out soon, someone will have a better vid up soon I reckon.

Yes, they are different against different characters with sweeping.

Scraping - Is not the same as auto cancel.

Xengri said:

My lack of picking up sarcasm is showing.

You got me...

My bad.

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There was no sarcasm to pick up. Any other member would've done the same thing. His lack of expressing sarcasm is bad. xP

I don't see a use to scraping. Can you still hit people with the attack? Can it lead to combos? It appears that you still receive landing lag. It appears that you are just cancelling part of your attack while keeping the landing lag. Fill me in if I'm missing something.

OK.
I am officially confused.
I am actually pretty interested in scrapping, but don't really understand a rat's arse of what it is.
Can anyone explain it in simple terms?
Thanks in advance.

Ness' d-tilt also has this property.

Scraping sounds really helpful... in fact, edgehogging techniques seem to be much better in brawl than they were in melee.

I did some more testing of scraping

results can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQGLNPJ9VCE

Nick A said:

I did some more testing of scraping

results can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQGLNPJ9VCE

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Best. Post. Ever. Period.

bayonettrials said:

Best. Post. Ever. Period.

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I agree, When I first saw the video, I lol'd and continued to lol till the end of the video. Amazing.

i get it now, scraping and aerial cancel are the same thing. magus has a post that shows this off perfectly in the aerial cancel thread. to clarify it goes like this. peachs fair animation takes 3 seconds to do. pull off crown, swing, put on crown. if u pull off crown and land you'll have terrible lag, if u do the full 3 second animation then land you wont have lag. THEN theres landing right after the swing. if u land on that you wont have lag, cancelling the animation of her putting on her crown but leaving u lag free when u land.

edit: thats what it is when hes in the middle of the stage i think. saw the falcon and i dunno, thats new and apparently called scraping lol. to many new things floatin around at once O_o.