ZSamus Findings from Gameplay

I made a meta thread about this and I am desperately trying to upload vids but we don't have the right equipment. I'm thinking of using a digi cam so deal with the low quality when I get them up. (or if there is a way to transfer the Wii SD chip and convert them via PC then let me know)

ZSamus

General

ZSamus has a lot going for her atm. Her staple moves are her dthrow, her dashattack, her fairs/bairs, her upair and her stun gun. She is one of the few in the game thats slightly slow in terms of aerial movement but can still combo nicely. I can see her being a solid counter against light, floaties. I do have trouble against sword users due to their range and speed in air (especially meta and Ike)

Moves

-Her dashattack can IMMEDIATELY lead into a uptilt/dtilt at low/mid percentage, and both her dtilt and her uptilt leads them into the air, which Zsamus is great at. However, you can still get shield grabbed before you can land her tilts which is downset. Use it consistently, but don't get predictable
-Upair is ridiculously good. She can use it multiple times with one jump and the knockback can combo at low percentage and kill at higher percentage.
-Her grab is unfortunately a grapple time (which means laggy start-up and harder to shield grab) but she has gurantee combos out of her dthrow (fair/upair mostly)
-Her fair is like Samus's bair except hits twice with nice knockback. A solid K.O. move thats one of the easier ones to land. Her bair is almost identical to Samus's (it my staple kill move)

Stun Guns

-Her gun can shoot charged/uncharged. her uncharged goes slightly less distance and stuns much less. If you hit an opponent with a charged blast decently close to you, you are GURANTEED an Fsmash (you don't have enough time to charge Fsmash though) and any other moves that comes out as fast.

-I only could pull this off due to the lag of her stun gun, but if you hit them point blank with a full charged stun gun, she can dsmash for EVEN MORE stun and lead to her fsmash. However, it is NOT a CUMULATIVE stun time, so you still only have time for a Fsmash speed.

-Her forward B is a kill move with range. However, it is slightly slower than her Fsmash but has more power. I tried using it after the charged stun gun, but it seems to be just too slow for you to land it. However, its a solid tech chase kill move. If you anticipate that the opponent is going to roll away, dash and forward B. I've killed a lot of guys with that

Things that I'm still testing

-Comboing with her upB. Her upB can drag opponents back down into the ground. I try to dtilt the grounded opponent, but it seems like they can tech away once the UpB drags them to the ground. It might be hard, but a dtilt/uptilt to upB to grab techchase game might be pausible.

Very nice! ^.^ I was waiting for a ZSS review! Hurry up and get those videos uploaded, there aren't very many with Zamus!

In theory, couldnt a combo like Grab/Up Throw, Up B, Down Smash, Grab/Up Throw, etc. be lethal?

.kR0 said:

-Comboing with her upB. Her upB can drag opponents back down into the ground.

Click to expand...

Wow, I never realized that before. I have been trying to figure out when to use Up B and when to use Up Smash for her since both are so similar... hmm.

Also, I dont think ill be able to mess around with brawl for a few days, so if you could try something for me that would be cool. I *think* that if you stun somebody with Zero Suits down smash, you can launch off another one for some really wicked knockback. I did something like that a few times by mistake, but wasnt absolutely sure if it was a second down smash that caused the knockback or not.

Takun - That combo might be possible, but due to the small range of down smash and its single direction, its entirely possible that it would just never hit if they roll once hitting the ground.

Also another killer move is the down B into A but this move is extremly hard to land but it makes a nice mind game.

can the upb grapple edgehog?

Too risky.
Some characters can easily punish edge stalling with spikes (like Ike's dtilt for example).

Recovering with ZSamus is kinda hard if your opponent knows about Zsamus's recovery. Your downB helps your recovery by a lot and she can DI really well (and she falls throw) so you don't need to grapple too often as long as you DI the right way when you get hit. The problem is that your upB won't work if your opponent is grabbing the ledge. However, I "think" you can force the guy off by hitting them with your ForwardB.

Sorry for the double post but...

ZSAMUS HAS A AWESOME SPIKE. And its her UpB off the ledge. Has really good range vertically, fast to pull off and quite easy to pull off. It looks funny too because you're just pulling the guy down

her up-b can protect her from opponents trying to land dairs on her from above, and potentially lethal ones like Link

Her up b seems pretty imba.. I'd love to see some creative stuff with it.

quoting myself from a previous thread:
Think of her like Ivy from soul calibur..her combo potential could be great..(think paralyzer to up throw to up B to pull the opponent back down...maybe then a D-smash if they land at your feet)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by SamDvds : 01-16-2008 at 04:11 AM.

check the date...lol i had a feeling this combo would work even before the leaked vids came out...she will play JUST like ivy from soul calibur in fact Ivy has a few combos that look exactly like this...so thats where im gonna be pulling all my combos from

Don't know if this has been said but her down b has a spike to it so does her up b - she ***** in air

easy combo

dash to grab, you might want to grab earlier than you want to cuz she slides

then dthrow to uairs
u can uair twice before you have to jump again to uair again

it's and easy combo and they can rack up dmg very quickly
at low percents, opponents can DI away, but if you chase, you can usually keep doing the attack

one of the easiest people to combo is c.falcon

most of her smashs kinda just suck, it's better to use her tilts and aerials to kill
her bair, like almost every character, is really good, also edgeguarding and gimping them is nice also

btw, u can't really cancel her dair, and it goes straight to the bottom like a spear, and she lags a ton after u land so i don't suggest using it


also stunning them in the air will not kill them... i thought if i stunned them, they would fall to their death stunned, but they just froze in midair stunned... so it's quite ********


OH, also, a good way to get onto platforms is to airdodge as soon as you jump so that you don't get hit while going up, this is situational of course

I find out that the dthrow to upair is not a 100% gurantee near mid percentage since the opponent can airdodge in time. It is a gurantee around low percentage but is hard to pull off if the opponent DI's away and down.

However...

I find out that around mid percentage, the UpB out of Dthrow is a gurantee and you can techchase with it. Basically

around 40%-60%
Dthrow->upB->shield (if opponent is doing his waking up attack)->grab->dthrow->upair/bair depending on DI

.kR0 said:

-Comboing with her upB. Her upB can drag opponents back down into the ground. I try to dtilt the grounded opponent, but it seems like they can tech away once the UpB drags them to the ground. It might be hard, but a dtilt/uptilt to upB to grab techchase game might be pausible.

Click to expand...

Try Plasma Wire, then if they tech, tech chase with Plasma Whip. \o/ Not really a bread and butter thing, but good for getting kills off. Save it for later?

oh, a danger is if you dthrow wolf and try to chase to uair, if he dairs immediately, you will get pwned hardcore

Could this (Up+B) mean Samus is the ultimate combo character? She can pull people back down to her for more pain so she doesn't suffer from landing to gain her jumps back. Afterwards she can tilt/combo again, meaning it might make her the 'Sheik' of Brawl.

No, they will land on the platform.
Which might not be a bad idea because you can easily techchase with an upair or bair.

I'll see if I can dashcancel upB with ZSamus today. it'll be ridiculous if she can because it'll mean that she can completely shut down any form of full jump aerial approaches from opponents.

Also, the forwardB is one of her best moves since it has great range and not too bad of a lag. Think of it as a Fsmash that doesn't hit behind you but can be used in the air. One good thing about Fsmash over ForwardB is that the part of the whip that hits behind Zsamus has a low vertical knockback, meaning you can lead it into a bair or upair.

question, if you are trying to recover back on the stage but an opponent is above you, ready to meteor smash or spike you down to your death, say captain falcon and his dair. if u use ur Up B on him, will you get pulled up while u drag him down, or r u both doomed to fall to ur death? this is provided you are too far below to DI towards the stage for a ledge grab.

I'll check it out right now, but I think the UpB will take priority to make sure you grab the ledge before you use the second aspect of upB, which is the bringing down effect.

I just spent the evening getting a feel for ZSS at a friend's place, and here are a few things general things I've noticed. Note that these were observed during FFAs, so some details may have been lost while I focused on other aspects of the match. Also, the effectiveness of somethings may be dampened or amplified without the influence of outside players.

Combos:
Zero Suit Samus has some very good combos in her arsenal. Uairs link into each other well, and the combo may be able to KO off the top, although I didn't get many chances to see this work. Generally, I found it effective against Ike. Other good moves for comboing are dthrow, the back of fsmash, dsmash (obviously) and dtilt. Plasma Wire is pretty nice from under platforms, because it gives you a chance to platform tech chase if you can get it to spike. Both Plasma Wire and usmash seemed to have wonky hitboxes with unreliable knockback.

KOs:
Try you best to finish combos at high percents with bair, Plasma Whip, fsmash or Flip Jump. Flip Jump in particular can semi-spike, which is useful. Most of these moves won't necessarily KO your opponent directly, so edgeguarding is key. Make sure you don't use these moves overmuch, other wise, they will very much lose their usefulness.

Edgeguarding:
Generally, I like to stay on the ledge for edgeguarding. You can drop and hit Plasma Wire at any time, so airdodging followed by UpB is effective for avoiding projectiles as people come back. You can also get back on the ledge and "hug" back onto the ledge to stop some recoveries. If you're feeling daring, bairs from the ledge are useful, and nairs may be, too.

There is a suicide risk near the ledge if you somehow pull off a dair in the vicinity, as if you do nothing to cancel it, you drop faster than a rock. I didn't get any chance to see whether this can be canceled by Plasma Wire or not, because I still wasn't expecting it every time it happened.

Recovery:
I love Zamus' recovery. She has a plethora of options, all of them incredible. First of all, always be prepared to whip out a Flip Jump, Plasma Whip or any high priority aerial (nair) if someone tries to intercept. Once you're in the vicinity of the ledge, you should be good. If your opponent tries to ledgegrab, then you have two options. Obviously, Flip Jump is a choice, but if you're slightly higher than the ledge, Plasma Wire won't grab the ledge. Rather, it will give you some hight, and you can jump onto the stage that way. Otherwise, it's best to keep your distance and use your tether.

Once you're tethered, be careful, because you'll be easy to gimp. Generally, it's a good idea to get to the ledge as soon as possible, but waiting, supplemented by tether infiniting can be useful for mind games. Other ideas to try from the ledge: If your opponent gets too close and gets some kind of lag, uair is amazing. Ledge hopped fairs are also nice. My particular favorite is that if you ledgehop Plasma Whip, the move will finish before you get back on the ledge. Another idea I had is to drop down then Flip Jump for a surprise attack.

Some other general observations:
Grab is very slowwwww. I didn't get a chance to see

Hyphen Smash is rather effective for chasing people from below. Jump canceled Plasma Wire is also nice.

I personally felt like the controls were a little twitchy, but I think that's the new physics engine.

YOU START THE MATCH WITH YOUR SUIT PARTS! These things are ****ing beasts. Always pick up a part at the beginning of the match. They do 15% damage iirc, and have huge knockback. Furthermore, they bounce around a bit, and can hit your opponents twice if they aren't careful. You have two options, get rid of them so your opponent can't use them, or go berserker. I think it will be a good idea for ZSS players to learn how to catch items. In FFAs, this is really fun, because every match starts with exclamations of dismay as you rain chozo armored destruction on your foes. Revel in this.

It's a good idea, IMO, to learn how to play as Samus as well, because you can start your mindgames at the character select screen. If your opponent likes counter characters, you have the advantage, because he/she won't know whom you're playing until the match starts. The game doesn't tell anyone that you're starting as ZSS.

That's what I could figure out. I hope to get more info soon.

I generally don't use the suit parts in a 1vs1 since it seems like a unfair advantage.

.kR0 said:

I generally don't use the suit parts in a 1vs1 since it seems like a unfair advantage.

Click to expand...

Does the game give them to you?

Then it's not unfair.

I would rather have some solid A move information at the moment, like description of animation and percents.

deosn't todays update kinda like make you wanna just jack in wonderfulness??

Actually, if you're ZSS there are little icons in the stage select that point out who's what player. If you're ZSS the marker shows her face.

With the one-way triple taunt however, you can shed Samus's suit even before she gets a Smash Ball, or without one.

I've been trying to land fairs and bairs out of up b drag downs and it seems to be do able at middle ranged damages - it is a great way to setup for edge guarding - anyone else have similar/different results?

Also e/1 probably already knows but the down b - jump flip pretty much guarantees your recovery if you bounce it of the lower part of the stage - really easy to do on FD and if the flashing is invincibility then samus (zero suit) only has to go so far to get the auto sweet spot

There were a few times where I could up b -> usmash -> up b. I guess a lot of that is dependent on the trajectory that the upsmash wants to take.

Are there any spike properties on the D-Air?

Kips said:

Are there any spike properties on the D-Air?

Click to expand...

yes, watch Infil's Zamus videos.

You can DTilt -> Up B -> DTilt -> Up B -> DTilt before they DI out. I've also hit Up Smash -> Up B -> Up Smash. Stun Gun is going to be vital in this though.

Kips said:

Are there any spike properties on the D-Air?

Click to expand...

Yeah, Zamus spikes herself.

Possible new find: I was able to do a JC Upsmash IMMEDIATELY after the dash attack

Also, you can NOT tether out of your D-air. But, if you're pretty high in the air (higher than your own two jumps will take you on most levels -_-) eventually the attack animation will end and you will be able to tether the ledge.

In brawl you can always up smash out of dash (just flick the c-stick up)...but out of the attack, thats kind of interesting.

Metroid_01 said:

In brawl you can always up smash out of dash (just flick the c-stick up)...but out of the attack, thats kind of interesting.

Click to expand...

Well, yeah obviously I knew that if I called it a JC upsmash lol. I think it came out instantly after the dash attack though. I've done this with and without the C Stick, but I need to try it out a bit more later
I'm not sure if it's technically a JC because it's after the dash attack
Also, this is not completely definite. It may have been that her dash attack has so little lag that I didn't notice it.

uptilt out of dash attack is more solid against upsmash due to the multiple hit (and any part of the hit will launch unlike upsmash).

.kR0 said:

uptilt out of dash attack is more solid against upsmash due to the multiple hit (and any part of the hit will launch unlike upsmash).

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was thinking it could be useless because up tilt may be better anyway...it's interesting though especialy if this applies to other characters.

Found a pretty good video of all of ZSS's moves. Also has normal Samus.
Part1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDB1rm40IEE
Part2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J37Cvs50SHM&feature=related

So she has several spikes, a strong air AND ground game and ridiculous range. My main for sure. AND she's one of the best combo people out there!

Don't quote me on this for now, (it seems weird that no one would have posted this yet) but it seems you can chain two down smashes in a row. Or you can use B -> D-Smash -> D-Smash. I just did this to a computer so I gotta test it out on my roomate a little later. Someone quickly correct me if I'm wrong or tell me if I'm an idiot and this has already been said. Thanks.

EDIT: OK, this only seems to work at higher damages (at leat 75% i think). If it's lower the second D-Smash won't really stun them.